[VIC] Stamp Duty on Car - Can You Understate The Purchase Price?

Melb69 on 10/06/2022 - 09:05
Last edited 14/06/2022 - 11:20 by 2 other users

With Car stamp duty can you put a lower amount than as purchased. Ie Do Vic roads require any paperwork as proof of purchase amount. Thanks in advance.

OP Update: Further to my thread regarding car stamp duty. I probably should have put in more details. My question was a legitimate question. The private seller actually advised to me that I could put whatever amount I wished. I was thus checking with my forum members the status of that situation. I have no intent of doing such things, but wanted be clear on the requirements of that process.

Mod: Thread republished to retain information, but comments locked.

Automotive

closed Comments

  • Gunther on 10/06/2022 - 09:05
    +10

    So fraud?

    • Melb69 on 10/06/2022 - 09:16

      So paper work needs to be provided at transfer with sale amount

      • oscargamer on 10/06/2022 - 09:46
        +1

        No, but you might want to read the declaration at the bottom of the transfer form. Your choice.

  • Domicron on 10/06/2022 - 09:11
    +5

    Can one avoid tax? Yes.
    Can one avoid tax legally? No.
    Can one possibly get caught whilst avoiding tax? Maybe.

  • recycledrevenge on 10/06/2022 - 09:14
    +1

    I would suspect if it is an unusually low amount they may query it.

    What you are considering doing is fraud, no matter which way you try to frame it.

  • Archi on 10/06/2022 - 09:17

    can and should are 2 different things..

    you can, will you get caught ? not likely,

    should you? that would depend on your moral standards.

    • Melb69 on 10/06/2022 - 09:19

      Just checking if vicroads need sale price proof as well.

    • ChiTown on 10/06/2022 - 10:34
      -2

      You can and should, the govt rips us off enough on everything and they're incredibly inefficient and incompetent too.

      Just ask anyone who's had to deal with their local council for pretty much anything!

    • EightImmortals on 10/06/2022 - 11:50
      +2

      I have no problems protecting my money from thieves.

  • El cheepo on 10/06/2022 - 09:21
    +1

    Not the answer to your question directly but probably worth considering is:

    What do you plan to do with the money? And where do you get it from?

    If you withdraw or transfer it, there is a paper trail.
    If you have a bag of cash under your bed, there is not.

    In any case lowering the amount even a couple grand is fairly negligible on the final stamp duty, so why risk getting caught trying to defraud the government and cop a huge fine?

    • Melb69 on 10/06/2022 - 09:27

      That makes total sense.Thks

  • rektrading on 10/06/2022 - 09:22

    The probability of them having the resources to check every transfer is low.

    In other words, math is on the user's side.

    • CrowReally on 10/06/2022 - 10:16
      +1

      Aren't you the dude that talks about AI and computers taking people's jobs in the future?

      Wouldn't this be a trivially easy thing to detect (hundreds of thousands of data points on vehicle transfers, records of what the vehicle is and how old it is, "expected" values from same?)

      • rektrading on 10/06/2022 - 10:18

        Code will take away private jobs.

        Gov jobs will still be done by šŸš¶.

        • CrowReally on 10/06/2022 - 10:21
          +2

          I see. So, ATO data matching, all that stuff they currently do about how much various professions earn and where cash gets paid to and stuff, it's all a bunch of old men wearing those green visors passing pieces of paper between desks and stuff? No computers in there?

          • rektrading on 10/06/2022 - 10:36
            -1

            @CrowReally: I'm not familiar with the ATO's employment practices.

            The IRS is hiring 10,000 more workers for tax work.

            https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/irs-plans-hire-100ā€¦
            IRS plans to hire 10,000 workers to relieve massive backlog
            The IRS is announcing plans to hire 10,000 new workers to help reduce a massive backlog that the Biden administration says will make this tax season the most challenging in history

            ByFatima Hussein Associated Press March 11, 2022, 10:52 AM

            • CrowReally on 10/06/2022 - 10:43
              +1

              @rektrading: Oh awesome, some stuff about America, very relevant.

              Back to what we were discussing, how the government currently has Australia's largest database of data on its citizens, which it regulates and taxes, and how trivially easy it would be to review that sort of data for outliers (average values of car values by model, age, location, etc)..

              That's a thing humans are finding too difficult to get right, but you have some amazing predictions about how code will be replacing financial advisors (the humans you meet and discuss things with, etc) in the future. And no doubt a lot of other smaller private industries too.

              Why do you speak like someone who has no idea about technology? Oh right, you're a cryptobro.

              • rektrading on 10/06/2022 - 10:44

                @CrowReally: Why are you talking about the feds when stamp duty is a state tax?

                • CrowReally on 10/06/2022 - 10:54

                  @rektrading: I was talking about "the government". If you think the state government is somehow different from all the key points I just discussed, thank you for (re)confirming for me your level of knowledge about technology, I guess?

                  • rektrading on 10/06/2022 - 10:57

                    @CrowReally: The state gov and the feds are separate entities. The formation of the Federation made sure that.

              • rektrading on 10/06/2022 - 10:54

                @CrowReally:

                Why do you speak like someone who has no idea about technology?

                DeFI/CeFi is more efficient. It's being integrated with TradFi right now.

                https://www.wsj.com/articles/ftx-ceo-and-emergent-fidelity-dā€¦
                FTX Founder Sam Bankman-Fried Buys 7.6% Stake in Robinhood
                Robinhood shares rose as much as 42% in after-hours trading

                Sam Bankman-Fried, CEO of FTX, paid about $648 million for a stake in Robinhood Markets, according to a regulatory filing.
                PHOTO: ANTHONY KWAN FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
                By Orla McCaffrey Updated May 12, 2022 7:50 pm ET

                Users will soon be able to buy stonks on CEX.

                • CrowReally on 10/06/2022 - 10:57

                  @rektrading: Ah, candlebar graphs, crystal ball and "line goes up". I see you've returned to talk on your expert subject.

                  All we need now are some tweets, maybe a couple of finfluencer YouTube vids and a meme/emoji pile up.

                  • rektrading on 10/06/2022 - 10:59

                    @CrowReally: You seem to be in a bad salty mood, a lot.

                    May be you should see a professional.

                    • CrowReally on 10/06/2022 - 11:00

                      @rektrading: Good idea. I'll wait for a few years and have a chat to an AI bot, which of course will be replacing that (human emoji goes here).

  • rektrading on 10/06/2022 - 09:27
    -3

    Remember, cash šŸ’µ is 100% untrackable and the preferred medium of exchange for many transactions.

    • jv on 10/06/2022 - 09:58
      +2

      Remember, cash šŸ’µ is 100% untrackable

      Only if you pay with coins. Notes have serial numbers.

      • rektrading on 10/06/2022 - 10:21

        Notes aren't trackable unless they're introduced back into TradFi.

        A note can circulate on the black market for years before they end up in a bank.

        • Baysew on 10/06/2022 - 10:29
          +2

          So not 100% at all.

          • rektrading on 10/06/2022 - 10:38

            @Baysew: It's 100% as long as the cash changes from hand to hand. Cash can come from the printer and never go back to TradFi.

            • Baysew on 10/06/2022 - 11:14
              +1

              @rektrading:

              as long….

              Less than 100%.

              • rektrading on 10/06/2022 - 11:20

                @Baysew:

                Cash can come from the printer and never go back to TradFi. 100%

                • Baysew on 10/06/2022 - 11:38
                  +1

                  @rektrading: Can come, as long, Trade Fi are just weasel words.

  • Muzeeb on 10/06/2022 - 09:29

    You do not need evidence.

    It's basically a personal morals tax.

  • SF3 on 10/06/2022 - 09:30

    $1 no reserve?

    A market price? how much are you saving really to have this unethical act linger in your mind?

    • Archi on 10/06/2022 - 09:34

      $1…

      why not go for it was a gift

      • JDMcarfan on 10/06/2022 - 09:55
        +1

        going for it was a gift, will trigger them to ask you what the market value of the gift was and then apply stamp duty based on it.

  • jv on 10/06/2022 - 09:56
    +2

    If you are not going to send your car via Australia Post, I do not see any need for stamp duty…

  • pegaxs on 10/06/2022 - 10:03

    Private sale or through a dealer?

    Basically, if they think you are pulling their leg, they will just apply "market value" to the vehicle and charge you accordingly.

    If you are buying a car for $50,000 ($2,100 stamps) and are trying to claim it was only $10,000 ($420 stamps), they will most likely ping it.
    If you buy a car for $50,000 ($2,100) and claim it was only $45,000 ($1,890), you will probably get away with it.

    • Melb69 on 10/06/2022 - 10:35

      Private. Thks Pegaxs for your wisdom.

      Do you know if you need proof of purchase amount with the transfer papers. I think only the amount needs to be on. Am not going to put an amount that flags issues.. Just checking what is required.

      • pegaxs on 10/06/2022 - 11:07

        You will need a filled out Transfer of rego form for the transfer. (the first few sheets will give you the check list of items you will need to complete.)

        What you should also (and ALWAYS) get is some form of paperwork from the seller stating that they have sold the vehicle to you. Registration is NOT proof of ownership, a receipt or bill of sale is proof. What this receipt should say is your details, the sellers details, the details of the vehicle and the price, time and date it was sold. (See: example here You can cut and paste the info off that one and change whatever details you need for your transaction.)

        I always take a receipt with my details pre-filled out along with me to buy a car so the seller doesn't have to go looking for something to write one out on, just fill out their details and you are good to go.

        Put whatever price you want to on there, so long as it is reasonable and matches all the other paperwork you fill out for the transaction.

  • Hvrd on 10/06/2022 - 10:20

    When i bought a second hand car from the dealer he put the sale price of the car lower for stamp duty

  • Drakesy on 10/06/2022 - 10:40

    It's your choice, They may cross reference them against redbook values and if your declared value doesn't fall within that range they may start asking questions.

    I think it's pretty common though within reason.

  • Jason Genova on 10/06/2022 - 10:54

    its clear you are going to do it anyway, just seeking validation from randoms on a forum

  • Gronk on 10/06/2022 - 11:26

    If you declare too low a price they'll just determine their own market value and calculate stamps based on that.

  • brendanm on 10/06/2022 - 12:16

    I always put down way lower than I paid, have never been questioned.

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