Desktop PC for Dumb Consumer.

Lharshbdmmaster718 on 10/06/2022 - 20:36
Last edited 10/06/2022 - 23:49

Hey folks.

So update is I found a full size case Dell Inspiron 3910 which is EOFY price now.
I am pretty sure it supports standard size (ATX) Power Supply with 8-pin 24v output but would like confirmation.

Read below the line for the original post.

So I asked about this on reddit already, but I think whoever advised me did not know the following.

They recommended me to choose the TC-1660 model over the XC-1660 because it would use a larger more common Power Supply which would be easier to replace if something went wrong.
But I googled "Acer TC-1660 power supply" and read the community.acer posts, where many said the TC-1660 uses a uncommon 12v output Power supply when normally output is 24v and it said because of this the only compatible replacements were from Acer directly.

So the only reason I was going to go with TC-1660 was for the easier to replace Power Supply so the computer would last longer, but this is not the case and both are equally hard to find replacements if Acer stops selling them?

If both XC-1660 and TC-1660 Power Supply's are not easy to find replacements for I might as well save my money and get the XC-1660 right?

Also XC-1660 is a Micro desktop case, and TC-1660 is normal size case if that makes any difference.

If anyone could help me decide that would be great.

Poll Options

  • 3
    Get XC-1660 and save your money
  • 3
    Get TC-1660
Computing Computer Desktop Computer

Comments

  • Presence on 10/06/2022 - 21:29

    Mini pre builts like this are normally terrible value and often difficult to repair/upgrade.

    What's your use case and budget?

    • harshbdmmaster718 on 10/06/2022 - 22:09

      Use case is just a PC for basic use.

      I am looking at the XC-1660 which is Windows 11 compatible and available $809 brand new. Is this not good value with the future in mind?

      I know if you put together a custom PC with the cheapest priced parts all from different stores you achieve something much cheaper, but as a dumb consumer I am just trying to purchase something that works straight away, and I can just return it to one store if it is faulty.

      • Presence on 10/06/2022 - 22:44
        +1

        As Brotality said, Acer isnt very popular at all, and these products arent special - just cheap consumer stuff. They often have propeitary motherboards and PSUs so when broken they just get tossed.

        If you want small and simple i'd jump on eBay and get a Dell/Lenovo desktop for $300 which will run Win 10 until 2025 at least. They also have propetary mobos/PSU but being business computers they are pretty solid, and cheap enough to just replace.

        eg.
        https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/172668133306?hash=item2833d29fba…
        https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/203912488261?hash=item2f7a21a545…

        • harshbdmmaster718 on 10/06/2022 - 22:57

          Thanks for your suggestions but I don't feel like the Power Supply in a used office computer which has been left on 24/7 for years would be particularly reliable, even if cheap used power supplies can be easily found as replacements. But you could argue that it is still running after 20 years or so I guess. And if it's an old model Dell that only runs Windows 10 it will be impossible to find a brand new Power Supply for it right?

          I feel like a brand new computer with Windows 11 support would be much better value in the long run. I am currently looking at the Dell Inspiron 3910 model which has a full sized case and I have not confirmed it yet, but it does seem to support standard large size Power Supplies with 8-pin 24v output connector.
          Price is $990 but on top of the used Dell I get everything brand new, 12th Gen i5 for Windows 11 support, DDR4 memory, 512GB SSD, better airflow and I cannot find confirmation yet but if there is any issue with Power Supply I think I can pick and choose a reliable Power Supply from multiple brands if the original one fails.

          Also while you say support Windows 10 until 2025, I expect the new computer to get a lot more use than just 2.5 years. Therefore my initial concerns about an easily replaceable Power Supply.

          By the way thanks for confirming to me that the Acer models I mentioned are "disposable" junk when they get old due to their uncommon Power Supply's.

          • huggsymersh on 11/06/2022 - 11:05

            @harshbdmmaster718: If you're happy to spend up to $1k for a basic desktop PC, then I'd side step the proprietary parts trap of Dell et al, and just get a prebuilt from a smaller builder. That way if any parts do need replacement, it's all modular and easily replaced.

            This deal is expired, but there should be more coming along.
            https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/700028

            But if your use case is truly basic, I think you may be over thinking airflow and lifespan issues. This is more a case for your your PCs with demanding GPU requirements. If you were just looking for web browsing and word processing, the office refurbs are a much better value proposition. Small form factor too, which is convenient.

            • harshbdmmaster718 on 12/06/2022 - 17:53

              @huggsymersh: Hi, yes I am still researching about SFX/ATX Power Supply compatibility and seeing conflicting results.
              One good thing about the official Dell Power Supplies is when they are off, the measured phantom draw is close to 0w. Where as an ATX Power Supply draws around 8w of phantom power when off.

              So the main point I have discovered is you can hook up SFX/ATX Power Supplies to the Inspiron 3910 with adapters I watched a video with successful boot up with both. But what I read on official specs from Dell user manuals is that the Dell motherboard requires 12v on standby, and SFX/ATX only provide 5v standby power.

              Now the individual in the video who achieved success did not mention any use of a converter (5v to 12v converter which I do not want to deal with) but they were able to get the Dell to boot by just connecting with adapters? So this is the part that is conflicting.

              Worth mentioning the video was with the Inspiron 3880, but the only difference in spec between the 3880 and 3910 is the former uses a 6pin motherboard power connector and the 3910 uses a more common 8pin connector. Both models motherboards require 12v standby power.

              I am aware that PC part prices have gone up since covid. Would you say these price increases carry over to pre-built systems from Dell etc?

              I found this post from last year 2021 mentioning a 10th Gen i5-10400 with 12GB ram and 1TB HDD drive for $698 at Dell AU. https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/610822
              10th Gen last year would mean "previous generation" since the CPU was released in 2020, so equivalent to a 11th Gen CPU now so I can understand the lower price.

              I also found this post from 2018 which should be before covid with a lot of positive votes. https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/379664
              It is a 8th Gen i5-8400 which was released in 2017. It would make it also "previous gen" in 2018 and I am thinking the HDD and graphics card cancel each other out, so $999 seems close to the current gen system price I am looking at.

              I am looking at a 12th Gen i5-12400 system with 8GB RAM and 512GB NVMe SSD for $990, I think this is quite a good deal during covid price hikes on PC parts?
              https://www.dell.com/en-au/work/shop/desktops-workstations-a…
              At this point I am thinking this is a good deal for a current generation system I can just return to one store if anything is faulty, compared to the savings achieved by sourcing parts from all over the place right now.

              As this comment below from Axelstrife mentioned https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/12251974/redir, with identical specs to the Dell 3910 I am looking at, sourcing all the parts from all over the place would be around $750. I find this an honest answer compared to other comments which say the spending amount can be halved this way.

  • [Deactivated] on 10/06/2022 - 21:30

    Normal size case will most likely have better airflow and thus better cooling than a micro case (unless poorly designed)

    Better cooling = longer component life

    • harshbdmmaster718 on 10/06/2022 - 22:12

      Ok I understand cooler is better, but if you do not keep the PC on 24 hours 7 days a week or don't have high demand tasks such as video encoding will it make that much difference?

      I just now discovered a full size case alternative with nicer specification and possibly standard Power supply support. Dell Inspiron 3910.

      • [Deactivated] on 11/06/2022 - 00:02

        probably not a huge difference.

        it's doubtful you will ever need to replace any components for the life of the PC, by the time stuff starts needing to be replaced, you might be wanting to upgrade anyway. assuming that you are just using it for basic tasks, nothing too taxing such as gaming or video encoding etc.

  • Brotality on 10/06/2022 - 21:42
    +3

    You'll struggle to get help with a question like that. These are not well known PC models. Acer is not huge in the prebuild space and we are all confused why you are asking specifically about one of these models. If you were asking about a Dell Optiplex which is very common, or if you gave us a budget and what you need the computer for, we can help with that stuff.

    I've googled these 2 models and they are nothing special. Almost too much expensive for what they are. If you are set on buying something new this Dell Optiplex 3090 is a much more well known and supported machine than acer, you can also upgrade the warranty to 3 year onsite for about a $100 if you are worried.

    And since these Dell machines keep ticking for 10 years+, there are tonnes of them refurbished for 1/5th of the price if you are so inclined. With SSDs they still run fairly well for office and web browsing needs.

    • harshbdmmaster718 on 10/06/2022 - 22:33

      I have looked at your new Dell Optiplex 3090 recommendation.
      It does look like something I would consider being brand new, but the Acer XC-1660 model I am looking at seems to offer a bit more for less. But with less component availability.

      From your comment, I take it that the Dell Optiplex has better component support due to being a more popular system.

      Sorry for this late reply, but while typing all this I have been also searching online and have come across the Dell Inspiron Compact series, which is a full size case (and possibly standard 24v output Power Supply).

      I found the XC-1660 equivalent specced Inspiron Compact for $990: https://www.dell.com/en-au/work/shop/desktops-workstations-a…

      This might be what I am looking for it even comes with a newer 12th Gen i5-12400 CPU. I'm not done comparing every part yet, but I am will to pay the extra $180 if it means 12th Gen CPU, better airflow and a easily replaceable Power Supply.
      I must thank you very much because I found this model just now in my search results when looking up the Dell 7090 with i5 and 512GB SSD.

  • harshbdmmaster718 on 10/06/2022 - 23:00

    Hey folks this is an image of the rear of the Dell Inspiron 3910. https://i.dell.com/is/image/DellContent/content/dam/ss2/prod…

    Does this look like any standard size Power Supply will fit? I am thinking as long as the Power Supply's plug/switch location is within the area surrounded by those 3 screws it will fit right?
    I think by "standard" I mean ATX.

    Also can anyone confirm it uses a 8-pin connector for 24v output?

    Here is a photo showing the connectors from the 3910 service manual. https://dl.dell.com/content/guides/public/html//inspiron-391…

    I think I can see the connector in the middle of the three has 8 wires so it is going to a 8-pin connector.

  • Italkdigital on 11/06/2022 - 03:56

    Plenty reasonably priced PC systems say on eBay, marketplace and gumtree but 44x questions to ask the seller

    1x does the PC system support DDR4 ram (If no, say it has ddr3 ram then most likely it's around 8 years old or more, enterprise DDR4 systems came out in 2014

    And on the powersupply side if for example your planning to buy a gtx 1070 Graphics card, you need the right powersupply for it so Google "what powersupply is required for a gtx 1070 gc" the result is 500 watts, yes your right best be a standard fitting powersupply

    2/ if ddr4 ram system on the intel side, you have choices the cpu to be I3, I5 and I7, ask what generation is the cpu/motherboards and google it will yell you what year that generation came out

    3/ On the AMD side I think AM4 socket CPUs/motherboards came out in late 2018 but the great thing about the AM4 socket motherboards, most dare I most all can be bios upgraded to support the latest AM4 CPUs and there all DDR4 systems

    Definitely I'm seeing under $400 for a complete DDR4 PC system

    Just got to be careful any PC from yonks ago will support a PCI-E Graphics Card and for example on the Intel side an I7 CPU "name terminology" has been used for decades, it's how recent generation of cpu/motherboard that counts and decides the value of the PC system

    Need help PM me 👍😁

    Edit: how much you want to spend on this PC system you want?

    Also with the powersupply, do Dell use standard type fitting on there plugs that connect to the motherboard, picture of back of their PC isn't going to tell you that information

    Edit again: looking at manual they are definitely not standard connectors on the motherboard and what a horrible motherboard not many usb ports on the back, looks like a cut down of a standard motherboard most likely proprietary motherboard too

    • harshbdmmaster718 on 11/06/2022 - 21:16

      Sorry for the late reply. I have been doing a tonne of research and at the moment do not have the time to be writing this comment.

      So ATX can be connected to Dell motherboard with adapters no problem. ATX Power Supply motherboard "operating" output is also 12v so no problem there I don't know where I got 24v output standard from, maybe I confused it with 24pin.

      Anyway so after all this research I think the problem lies with the "standby" power consumption of the Dell motherboard which needs 12v output. It is written here under Power ratings at this link https://dl.dell.com/content/manual13916784-inspiron-3910-set…

      ATX Power Supplies output only 5v standby power. Some have suggested DIY 5v to 12v converter but that sounds like a fire hazard.

      I watched this video on successful connection of SFX and ATX to Dell 3880 which is the previous model Inspiron. Dell 3880 also needs 12v standby power but only adapter cable is used, no mention of a converter being used. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7kmqSAvu_g

      Power wise Dell 3880 and Dell 3910 are very similar, the only difference is the older 3880 uses a proprietary 6pin connector for motherboard power. While the 3910 uses 8pin. Both adapters are available to purchase. But how did the person in the video get the ATX Power supply to work without a converter for 12v standby power? I don't know.

  • Axelstrife on 11/06/2022 - 07:37

    Using the same specs as that dell build you mentioned, with current prices with discount codes you can build a PC for about $750.

  • chrisn26 on 11/06/2022 - 08:39

    It sounds like OP just wants something that "works" and doesn't care about anything technical. This amazes me how super technical the other comments are!!!

    At this risk of sounding like an apple fanboy, OP is a prime candidate for a MAC. My view on technology, especially with planned obsolescence, is that you're really just "renting" the tech for a few years until support runs out (software/security fixes). Apple just has a better customer experience, better refinement between software/hardware. Not having to deal with IT/hardware issues is such a load off, even if you're technically capable. The big issue with apple is their prices. In this regard, I try to use mine as long as they support it (usually 7 years) so I have a bit longer to save for the next machine.

    • Axelstrife on 11/06/2022 - 10:52
      +1

      Recommending Apple is literally the exact opposite of what the OP asked about, he wants something that can easily have parts replaced which obviously means something not full of proprietary hardware which you'd have to go to apple and pay stupid prices for it to be fixed.

    • harshbdmmaster718 on 12/06/2022 - 18:05

      Thanks for your suggestion.
      I have heard good things about the reliability of Apple computers lasting a long time.
      However at this point I think switching over to a whole new Operating system and everything that comes with it is too much for me.

      I think I agree with your concept of buying something brand new and "current" now and using for as long as it is supported. So I am definitely interested in a system that is compatible with Windows 11 since it was just released.

  • AndyC1 on 11/06/2022 - 10:24
    +1

    Dumb Consumer === buy a pre-built PC from the closest computer store otherwise you will get calls from the dumb consumer to resolve every issue that the PC has.

    • harshbdmmaster718 on 12/06/2022 - 18:16

      I have read some bad experiences online about confusion and lack of support from those small computer stores.
      It sounded like those customers also had too high expectations and I can see that kind of issue happening to me. Therefore I think I am in the Dumb consumer category.

      As a Dumb consumer, I am currently leaning towards just getting a current generation system from a large company that sells pre-built systems. And just dealing with the Power Supply issue when/if it ever comes.
      These are the two options I am seeing now.
      Either be technically inclined with computers, get a motherboard compatible with standard Power supply and deal with higher risk of a small store or sourcing parts yourself.
      Or be a Dumb consumer and just deal with one company. There seem to be some solutions out there fitting a standard Power Supplies to these systems, but the documentation is not cut and dry.

  • GordonD on 11/06/2022 - 10:36
    +2

    HP, Lenovo and Acer sell business PCs. They work well straight out of the box, and are reliable, but they are intended for businesses that have service contracts with the supplier, and are leasing them for three to five years, at which point they will replace them. These can be excellent bargains when bought at the end of their lease very cheaply. But they aren't really very good purchases for personal users when bought new. They use proprietary designs which require relatively expensive proprietary parts if anything breaks. They aren't usually particularly easy to expand or upgrade.

    If you want a long life and upgradeability you need to purchase a computer made out of industry standard components.

  • Rako on 11/06/2022 - 13:38
    +1

    If you are in Sydney check out Q Flow Eastwood Computer great service Phone: (02) 9874 9211 I've bought a few computers from them very happy wouldn't bother going elsewhere.

  • simplystu on 11/06/2022 - 13:54
    +1

    Mid 2000's my parents bought an acer computer (they are on other side of AU - so they didn't consult me first).
    IMO they are overpriced for what they are + as already mentioned not "upgradable friendly".

    Personally, I would be going to one of the major PC stores … pccasegear, ple, umart, centrecom, etc … and buying a prebuilt basic system from there.

    You can pick up a 12th Gen Intel I5 system for around the $900 mark (rather than a 10th Gen Intel I5 you were looking at).

    • harshbdmmaster718 on 12/06/2022 - 18:09

      I am currently looking at a 12th Gen i5-12400 system with 8GB RAM and 512GB NVMe SSD for $990 from Dell. I like the idea of dealing with 1 store if I have any issues, I also think Dell are probably much better at dealing with dumb consumers like me.
      Going by some past posts here on ozbargain, current gen system for $990 seems like a decent deal and less affected by covid price hikes.
      Here in my reply above https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/12257213/redir, are links to those past posts and my thoughts around those "good deals".

      I was originally looking at the Acer XC-1660/TC-1660 with 11th Gen i5-11400 and 11th Gen i7-11700 respectively. But I will definitely go for the Dell with 12th Gen CPU now.

  • casho on 14/06/2022 - 14:26

    Do you need a PC? Can you live with a tablet, laptop?

    • harshbdmmaster718 on 14/06/2022 - 19:40

      I already have a tablet. Don't need a laptop.

      You must be younger than me? Maybe I am a bit old fashioned wanting a PC these days.

      • casho on 14/06/2022 - 21:20

        I doubt I am younger, just trying to shake up your views so you think outside the (pc) box. You say you do basic things on the computer, which translates as using a browser, ie, will run fine on a tablet. If you do more specialised things please mention them so the community can assist.

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