Tree Root from My House Enters and Blocks Neighbor's Sewage Pipe. I Am Asked to Remove The Tree

tickettomars on 17/06/2022 - 14:28

Hi everyone. The root from my tree (3-4 meter high) enters neighbor's sewage pipe and causes some blockage. I believe the pipe was made from terracotta.

The neighbor wants me to remove the tree completely so that it won't do further damage to their sewage.
Not only that I love my tree, the cost of removing it is also not cheap (~$1000).

I suggest the neighbor to change the section of the affected sewage to PVC but he/she thinks it will not likely solve the issue.

What I'm happy with (in descending order):
1. Replace the affected sewage pipe with PVC and I'd share 50% of the cost.
2. Remove the tree, the neighbor share 50% of the cost.
3. Do nothing, although I respect my neighbor and don't want to have any issues between the 2 families.

What I'm not happy with:
1. Remove the tree and I have to pay for 100% of the cost.
2. Replace the pipe and I'd pay 100% of the cost.

What is your opinion?
Am I 100% responsible for the damage that the tree's root caused to the neighbor pipe?
Should I suggest the neighbor to share 50% of the cost no matter what solution we take?

Poll Options

  • 90
    Don't have to do anything.
  • 418
    I'm 100% responsible for removing the tree.
  • 7
    The neighbor and I each share 50% of the tree removal.
  • 9
    The neighbor and I each share 50% of the PVC pipe replacement.
Home & Garden

Comments

    • Drakesy on 20/06/2022 - 16:10
      +1

      But if your pipes were already damaged and in poor condition - resulting in a crack and thus leaking which the tree then sought out, would it stand up in court for the tree owner to stump up for your failing sewerage pipes?

      Terracotta pipes have a reputation for this and with an engineers report it could easily fall down.

  • Myone888 on 18/06/2022 - 07:59
    +5

    You are responsible for you tree with roots growing to Neighbour house

    • dcash on 21/06/2022 - 07:53

      You left out the word "not"

  • ozboygsl on 18/06/2022 - 09:27
    +1

    knew someone who had this happened…..tree mysteriously died….no more problem

  • 82norm on 18/06/2022 - 10:43

    3-4m tree is not big and if you’re reasonable fit, should be able to take it down. Obviously having the right tools will help. Likewise, possibly seek council permission.
    PVC will definitely fix the issue, so don’t let the neighbour pull one over you. You can get different thicknesses of PVC pipes too.

    Re-lining is effective, I had it done nearly 15 years ago and touch wood (no pun intended) haven’t had any blockages to date. I don’t thinks it’s as expensive as what it’s made out to be and it’s come a long way too.

    Removing the tree is debatable. Was it there before the neighbours house, sewer line? At the very least I’d go 50/50 and no way would I’d budge with copping the 100% outlay. The neighbour has to take some responsibility as well.

  • bamzero on 18/06/2022 - 11:36
    +3

    Throwing something else into the mix, is the tree on your land or council land?

    My parents had a massive tree on council's strip in front of their place, roots grew back to the house and started damaging things but hadn't gotten as far as the house yet..

    Council didn't want to know about it, said your tree, your problem. Parents didn't agree, left it with something to the effect of you'll be hearing from my lawyer.

    Quickly received a call from someone higher up after that, council came out and trimmed the tree and cut the offending roots.

    TLDR; If the tree is on council land, get them to deal with it but don't give up when they say it's not their problem.

    • PopCounty on 18/06/2022 - 21:45

      +1

      With same analogy, it should be OP trimming the roots and fixing the pipe. This is interesting!!

      • bamzero on 19/06/2022 - 15:06
        +1

        Not quite, the council didn't touch anything past the boundary nor take responsibility for it, just did enough for prevention of further damage.

        I don't think OP is under any obligation to repair the pipe really and the offer of 50% is more than fair.
        If it is a council tree the neighbour can chase them up for damages but don't know if they'd have much luck.
        If not, I guess by the example above OP should be responsible for cutting the roots but that's about it.

  • rektrading on 18/06/2022 - 11:49
    -1

    May be the neighboor should sue for the damage?

    Or may be they can use glyphosate or sodium chloride to stop the roots from damaging the pipes.

  • Kiro on 18/06/2022 - 18:02
    +2

    Your neighbour should cutback the roots, change the earthenware to PVC then encase it in concrete so roots don't grow back in.

    • [Deactivated] on 18/06/2022 - 22:48

      they shouldn't encase them in concrete, PVC doesn't last forever and will need to be replaced. if it must be done, just poor an underground wall between the pipes and the tree.

  • ozboygsl on 18/06/2022 - 18:03

    yeah, you need to be really REALLY careful you don't flush a lot of concentrated herbicides down your toilet. Anything that's tapping into that would be poisoned.

  • mrvaluepack on 18/06/2022 - 19:14
    -1

    similar situation, my neighbor's trees were causing issues. asked to remove, they said no. I said I'll pay for it 100%, they said yes. Tell your neighbor to pay for all/some of the cost. Not your problem.

    Councils love trees more than people and property where I live, so you are good if you do nothing.

  • DazMon on 18/06/2022 - 19:48
    +2

    $1000 to remove a 3-4m high tree???
    I find that really hard to believe.

  • snapper17 on 18/06/2022 - 20:46
    -1

    call your insurance company they may cover it

    • logistics on 18/06/2022 - 21:10

      No insurance covers that.
      All the common stuff is excluded

  • kiwimex on 18/06/2022 - 21:15
    +13

    I am a plumber and deal with these issues occasionally here in Qld.

    Roots from your tree will not enter your neighbours pipe unless the pipe is cracked, broken and damaged. If their pipes were in sound condition there wouldn't be a root problem. It is not your responsibility to repair their broken / damaged pipes. You do not have to remove your tree either.

    The only exception to the above is if they can prove that the roots from your tree caused the damage to their pipes, then entered the pipes from there. If the pipes are old earthenware as you have mentioned…..it would be very difficult to prove the damages were caused by the roots etc…..as due to old age and ground movement the old earthenware pipes are known to fail.

    • Drakesy on 20/06/2022 - 12:41
      -1

      Finally some sense.

      Too many keyboard warriors saying roots caused the problem so its the tree's fault…

      Terracotta is a crap piping material prone to cracking and many of the character homes will be going through the same issues.
      It's not up to your neighbour to upgrade your drainage system.

  • nuttapillar on 18/06/2022 - 21:59
    +1

    Can't you just cut the roots that cross the boundary? dig a trench, cut the roots, and put in some sort of divider to stop the roots going that way.

    • john_conner on 19/06/2022 - 12:20
      -2

      If branches overhang, neighbours are generally responsible for trimming the portion that is over their property. Extending that to the roots, agreed they just trim the roots on their property and replace their own plumbing which has reached end of life…

      • [Deactivated] on 20/06/2022 - 01:42

        That used to be the case and might be in rare instances in some small councils, but most councils now make the tree owner 100% responsible for trimming.

        The person who it overhangs ‘can’ trim it, but they can also make the person who has the trunk (or majority of the trunk) trim anything that overhangs.

        So generally you’re wrong, and I’m not aware of any councils where you’re right.

  • MrThing on 19/06/2022 - 04:51
    +10

    Old crappy busted arse earthenware pipes…

    Tell him hes dreaming

  • druex on 19/06/2022 - 10:51

    If they poison the roots to get rid of them, is this acceptable to you?

  • dcash on 19/06/2022 - 12:38
    +1

    Not your problem, but if it's a tree that you don't particularly want either, maybe you can suggest going halves to have it removed (after seeking council approval, obviously).

  • gregsurname on 19/06/2022 - 13:37
    +2

    Terracotta and roots, name a more iconic duo.

    Our storm water had 6+ metres of roots through it from one of our trees. Pipes were 40 years old. Seems like a good innings. They were due for replacing.

    Doing the digging yourself will halve the cost of getting PVC replacement put in. Offer to help with manual labour, if you can, but don't give them a cent.

  • Kranbone on 19/06/2022 - 13:51
    -2

    The cause of the damage is a tree under your ownership. Get a quote from a plumber on your end to resolve the issue and pay for it.

    If you like the tree, keep it, but bare in mind that it may happen again if the root regrows.

  • BobLim on 19/06/2022 - 16:44
    +3

    Never understood this - if your tree crosses the border, you need to remove any parts that do.

    Would you be happy with the neighbour building a structure that overhangs the fence? Whats the difference, except that the structure won't grow bigger over time?

    • dcash on 20/06/2022 - 08:35
      +3

      That's simply not how it works. Most council by-laws in NSW (can't comment on the rest of the country) state that a neighbor can prune overhanging trees (to within the limits of pruning allowed by the council, which is often only up to 5% of the tree) and in a lot of cases, allow the clippings to be returned to the owner of the tree for disposal. It's not the tree owners responsibility to ensure the tree doesn't "cross the border". People that don't understand this are probably more suited to apartment living, where they can spend all the live long day complaining to the body corporate about what people are doing on common property.

      • BobLim on 20/06/2022 - 21:02

        Possibly not their legal responsibility - still the right thing to do, or at least offer. Hence, OP should offer a remedy to the neighbour and appreciate when they do the same

  • [Deactivated] on 19/06/2022 - 21:24
    +3

    So the general consensus seems to be:
    Professional water engineers/plumbers - Terracotta pies, not your responsibility
    OzBargain couch lawyers - (screeching noises) YOU ARE 100% RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL COSTS

    • [Deactivated] on 20/06/2022 - 01:52

      Trees overhanging are definitely your responsibility and you can confirm with your council, no need to trust ozbargain’s ‘lawyers’ or worse ozbargain ‘professional water engineers or plumbers’ or most useless, people commenting on second hand information. Why anyone thinks a plumber can comment on legal matter…

      At the end of the day it matters even less who is really responsible, it’s who blinks first when facing a long and drawn out legal process.

      Proving a tree is overhanging is slam dunk easy, proving it definitely caused damage to the pipes is harder, though not impossible. if it can be proven to have caused the damage you’re not going to escape liability because a plumber says so.

      If it caused the damage OP is responsible, but you can screech about it, and maybe they’ll be able to convince the other party to accept less to settle.

      It’s utterly pointless to speculate on if the damage was caused by the tree online. But the legal liability is something you don’t need consensus on, you can check that yourself.

  • bmerigan on 19/06/2022 - 21:41
    +2

    Killing the tree won't solve the blocked pipe problem though. Only replacing the pipe will fix that, at which point might as well keep the tree.

  • legs on 19/06/2022 - 23:29
    +1

    If the tree is in a normal spot in a back or front yard and not close to your neighbours house then you should leave it.

    If the tree is right next to the boundary fence and near to your neighbours house then you should ideally get rid of it.

    Thanks my view anyway.. In my situation I'm the unfortunate one as my neighbours trees are planted by the boundary fence, right next to the side of my house, which is lifting my paving and will no doubt cause plumbing issues at some point in future

  • arcticjuggernaut on 20/06/2022 - 07:14
    +3

    If it were me, get them to replace the pipes with pvc. Then offer to replace the pipes if further damage occurs.

  • dcash on 20/06/2022 - 08:29
    +2

    Going by the poll responses, it's amazing (perhaps not so amazing, consider this is OzB and the well established demographic here) that people don't understand how things work in Australia.

  • kalithreaver on 20/06/2022 - 10:17
    -1

    its your tree and your responsibility. your costs for damage and removal.

  • Dowhatuwant on 20/06/2022 - 12:17

    lol all these delusional people that think you aren't responsible for the damage caused by something on your property are hillarious.

  • Temerarious on 20/06/2022 - 12:37

    https://www.lec.nsw.gov.au/lec/your-legal-problem-is-about--…

    A person who wishes to have a tree or hedge on the neighbour’s land pruned or removed, or who wishes to obtain compensation for damage to their property caused by a tree on a neighbour's land, may apply to the Land and Environment Court to obtain these orders.

    Don't show your neighbour this thread

    • factor on 20/06/2022 - 14:42
      +1

      I suspect you didn't click the link to the legislation referenced at that page. That page only says the judge can make orders … not that the orders you think will be made!

      The law:
      https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current/act…

      "any steps taken by the applicant or the owner of the land on which the trees are situated to prevent or rectify the obstruction,"
      ie: the affected party needs to take reasonable steps to prevent the problem. Complaining that a leaky pipe has attracted tree roots may not go down so well!

  • thord on 20/06/2022 - 14:41
    -1

    Man the advice is shit on here:

    Bottom line - you are responsible. HOWEVER, the degree you're resposible to depends.

    First thing is to try to resolve it with your neighbours. This means they need to first write something to you explaining the problem, you then write them back - or if you have to talk - keep notes and a record of what was said.

    If you reach an agreement - GREAT! That's it.

    If not, you have to start thinking.

    I would first ask for proof that the tree roots were causing damage - this means the neighbour may have to CCTV their pipe, or may need to dig it up. This is -entirely on them-. They need to prove the problem. If it's terracotta pipes - good luck to the neighbour proving that the damage was caused by tree roots and not just the pipes breaking up over time…

    Anyway, If confirmed, you should accept responsibility and propose a solution:

    Solutions could be:

    • Offer to re-line the pipe with PVC. If you can reline the pipe, it will stop the leak, and the tree roots won't cause further damage.
    • Offer to prune the roots, you may be able to prune back the roots and fix their pipe and leave your tree.
    • Remove the tree, fix their pipe.

    Now, technically you are financially responsible for the fix AND the damage caused. However, you can certainly agree with your neighbour to split costs (if they agree to it).

    • Drakesy on 20/06/2022 - 16:13
      +2

      But the terracotta pipe likely failed prior to the tree root, the cracking would've leaked water which the tree sought out.

      The entire pipe network is then not fit for purpose, the neighbour shouldn't have to pay to upgrade someone else's crap plumbing.

      • Its My Money on 20/06/2022 - 16:41

        I also agree. I think this is loosely covered in their response above by saying "I would first ask for proof that the tree roots were causing damage". Maybe OP can ensure that as part of the proof, the CCTV shows the overall condition of the pipe is very bad and root intrusion is not the primary cause of failure. Perhaps OP can pay for the reactive root clearing job and cleanup (few hundred bucks), but the pipe owner will need to upgrade their pipes.

      • thord on 21/06/2022 - 11:09

        yes I made mention of that.

        The neighbour would need to prove the tree root was the cause of the failure

    • Its My Money on 20/06/2022 - 16:38
      +1

      This is a really simplified, logical, well laid-out answer. I agree with everything here and think it is one of the most helpful in this thread. I'm surprised by the downvotes.

  • CoreJava on 20/06/2022 - 14:43

    Your tree is like your pet, they invade others and why would you only pay 50% on removal. You are 100% responsible.

  • Its My Money on 20/06/2022 - 16:32

    Interesting arguments and responses are all based on different assumptions. With limited info it is probably in favour of the pipe owner (assuming tree root intrusion is severe), but it could be argued in favour of the tree owner also.

    Trees naturally seek out water, especially in times of drought. A single weep in the pipe can encourage root ingress. If the pipes are clay and over 75 yrs old, the aging infrastructure likely has cracks or movement has caused joints to open up and attract roots etc. I'd certainly ask for a report with images of the pipe inspection (to confirm pipe condition and failure mode and mechanism and whether they are even your tree roots).

    • If the report/pics show root intrusion in an otherwise perfect pipe, then the tree owner is solely responsible. This would likely include pipe repair and tree removal (or subsequent pipe repair resulting from not removing the tree).
    • If the report/pics show root intrusion in a decayed pipe, then the pipe owner should pay for the pipe repair BUT the tree owner should pay to remove their tree OR agree to pay for any subsequent root issues (or a regular root clearing program).
    • If the report/pics show no root intrusion and a collapsed pipe, well they are just pulling wool over your eyes and trying to get you to pay for their issues.
    • If worst comes to worst, you could start to get technical and talk about the value of the pipes prior to tree intrusion. If the pipe is 75yrs old, you shouldn't have to fund the full pipe replacement - you should pay the remaining value left in the pipe before the issue occurred e.g. $10,000 pipe which is 3/4 through its life already might be worth $2,500 at the time of intrusion. So only pay $2,500 towards replacement (otherwise you are upgrading their pipe for free).

    Ultimately, it actually isn't a clear cut case and previous precedents may not apply here as every scenario is different. Based on limited info, it is probably in favour of the pipe owner, but if they don't provide a compelling report, it could easily be argued. But they certainly have the right to take you to court if there are any root issues from your tree.

    If it were me… I certainly wouldn't roll over immediately. Get a detailed report with pics and if they don't have one, then I'd happily let them take me to court. If they do have a detailed report confirming your tree is the primary cause of issue, well, attempt to share the cost (their pipes are already half through their life so it isn't fair to pay for brand new upgraded pipe section).

    -"The pipes and tree have been there for 75yrs without issue, perhaps your pipes have degraded so badly to encourage root ingress"?
    -"Maybe its tree roots from your own property?"
    -"I'll pay for your next root clearing in 1 yr and time and get a formal report and we will reassess then"
    - etc.

  • mrhugo on 20/06/2022 - 21:49

    I personally believe it's not your problem. How can the other landlord assume you're roots damaged the EW pipes. Eventually EW pipes crack, roots get in, bigger gaps form until the pipe fails.

    The other landlord should worry about their own pipes, not your problem. My council doesn't fork the bill when their council strip trees damaged my stormwater outlets. It was up to me to jet them and replace any failed EW sections with PVC.

    It's a can of worms taking on this. You don't know how long the EW run is, and you don't know if there are cracks further up of down the line. You could be up for big expense if there are other tree's or driveways in the way of excavation.

    Maybe best to read the laws applicable to your council.

  • digitalbath on 20/06/2022 - 22:06
    -2

    Well, I’m sure you were looking to have your own thoughts validated.
    But now you’ve got your answer. Now pay for the tree removal.

  • dufflover on 20/06/2022 - 23:38
    +3

    No wonder suburbia greenery is screwed if people are more willing to get rid of a tree over dealing with the obsolete and end of life terracotta pipes. Leaving it in without doing anything else is just asking for even more future trouble.

  • lazarski on 21/06/2022 - 00:32
    +2

    Tell him its his pipe and he can fix it

    and then plant another tree

    • Xistn on 27/06/2022 - 15:22

      Thats a long time to be malicious… But I like your style haha

  • antojamo on 22/06/2022 - 12:58

    What kind of tree is it?

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