The Bavarian "Service Fees" - Legal??

tonydav on 05/08/2022 - 10:31

So my GF and I were at The Bavarian at Rouse Hill for their Friday Happy Hour drinks. Nice sitting at the bar - U shape and really like it.

I'd been paying for our drinks on CC and hadn't paid much attention assuming the extra charge over the happy hour prices was just the CC surcharge. Then bought a pint "on the side" and paid cash. The $8 pint cost $8.40… So the GF looked on the menu and found that they have a "service charge". As in every day. So the usual 10% on Sunday's and 15% public holidays, but 5% every other day.

Is this legal? You can never pay the advertised prices. Kind of like adding tax at the checkout (definitely not legal).

Food & Grocery

Related Stores

The Bavarian
The Bavarian

Comments

  • morse on 05/08/2022 - 10:34
    +20

    If advertised I think it’s legal. However it’s off putting. They should just put up their prices and offer deals on quiet days to attract customers.

    • HeWhoKnows on 09/08/2022 - 10:54

      It could be a tipping fee so it actually goes back to the staff
      They do this in Europe and US.
      OP might like to check

  • El cheepo on 05/08/2022 - 10:37
    +10

    I personally wouldn’t like it on principle. They should just charge it as advertised by menu price.

    But if it’s written in the menu, its not really any different to you having to pay the Sunday or public holiday surcharges.
    Its still sneaky to add and a bit of a dirty dog manoeuvre though.

    Ubereats gets away with it 🤷🏽‍♂️

  • AustriaBargain on 05/08/2022 - 10:41
    +12

    It's bullshit imo. They should average out the cost of doing business instead of charging you more on certain days. Workers get paid more on weekends and holidays because I'm sure they would rather get those days off otherwise.

    • Deridas on 06/08/2022 - 20:32

      Why should those that visit on a weekday subsidize those who visit on a weekend, it alternatively, why should a business be less attractive/less competitive on a weekday (re prices) in order to not charged extra on a weekend/Sunday?

      I did not neg you by the way.

      • AustriaBargain on 06/08/2022 - 21:10
        +4

        Those who visit a bar during the busy hours at night are subsidising those who come in during the day when there's only one customer. Should a bar charge $40 per beer at 10am? Should Dominos charge $300 per pizza at 2pm when there is one single customer until the dinner rush starts a few hours later? Should city buses charge $70 per ticket when it's empty except for one person going to the shop?

        • Deridas on 06/08/2022 - 22:36
          +1

          During less busy hours in hospitality there tends to be a somewhat proportional decrease in front of house staff, and quite often these hours are used for preparation of meals, cleaning, admin work, and rest time for staff.

          Obviously the idea of a surcharge on Sundays/Public Holidays seem to make the most economic sense for the hospitality businesses that employ it, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

          Not every hospitality business employ the surcharge strategy either, it's whatever works for them.

          • AustriaBargain on 06/08/2022 - 22:41

            @Deridas: So you do think buses should charge the single passenger who boards at 11pm to go to the shop the full hourly wage of the driver, plus the cost of insurance for the driver and bus, plus the cost of fuel, the proportion of maintenance cost, the capital cost for the vehicle, etc.? And that the lowest price per bus ticket should only be charged on weekdays when the bus is full, not even standing room available, and when travelling the shortest routes where the average passenger is on the bus for the lowest amount of time possible? And people who take longer routes should be charged more? And maybe fat people should pay more too because you can fit fewer fat people on the bus and it burns more diesel to carry a fat person. And old people should be charged more because they take twice as long to board the bus.

            • [Deactivated] on 16/08/2022 - 11:28

              @AustriaBargain: The idea is to set pricing to assist with the distribution of resources, it's not a good thing for everybody to come and leave at the same time if you're expected to be open for longer hours.

  • SF3 on 05/08/2022 - 10:42
    +5

    OP, you have to tell us more about the GF in the story, because that didn't end up being the main story.

    This happen with a backpack leading the story and then turned into a car accident, then turned into hire car dilemma.

    • [Deactivated] on 05/08/2022 - 10:48
      +1

      So much drama ……..

      So much unnecessary detail ………..

      Very 'Days of His Made-up Life'

      Every time!

    • tonydav on 05/08/2022 - 10:54
      +3

      Reading this it looks like they are skating on the limits of legality. I.e.

      Restaurants, cafes & bistros

      Restaurants, cafes and bistros that charge a surcharge on certain days do not need to provide a separate menu or price list or have a separate price column with the surcharge factored in. However, the menu must include the words 'a surcharge of [percentage] applies on [the specified day or days]' and these words must be displayed at least as prominently as the most prominent price on the menu.

      I think it's implied that for "certain days" means only certain days (e.g. Sunday) but they have listed every day. So probably technically legal but not within the spirit of the law.

      • Almost Banned on 05/08/2022 - 11:17
        +21

        My view is that if there is no way of avoiding the fee, it needs to be included in the price.

        • dtc on 05/08/2022 - 11:35
          +6

          The intent of allowing a service charge was to cover the higher staff costs on Sundays and public holidays. So to have a service charge for every day is definitely skating close to the line; those are your normal costs.

          • tonydav on 05/08/2022 - 12:45
            +3

            @dtc: 100%. It's the same as they can't advertise a price and then say "oh you also need to add in GST".

            I like it that the price is the price in Aus.It's so frustrating in the US that the price is the price - oh plus tax.

            • iCandy on 05/08/2022 - 12:51

              @tonydav: I hated that in the US too. And the States all have different tax percentages.

        • cookie2 on 05/08/2022 - 22:37

          Same. If you can't ever get the price and it never actually exists, then you can't advertise it. Same as pricing when something has already been at the reduced price for a long period of time.

      • morse on 05/08/2022 - 19:54
        +3

        Actually if it needs to be as prominent as the most prominent price on the menu it’s not. It’s tiny
        https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/rockpool-websites/th…

  • Unorthodox on 05/08/2022 - 10:46
    +1

    A lot of places have started adding on a "service fee" that's a % on top of the menu (or set menu) and additional card charges.

    We had a work team dinner for 10 people and the service charge was 10% on top… ridiculous…I asked and they said it was included services such as them taking our costs and pouring/refilling our water glasses 🤦

    • AustriaBargain on 05/08/2022 - 10:52
      +8

      If they don't have the choice of you pouring your own drinks then that is bullshit too. It's as if employers are trying to introduce mandatory tipping to Australia.

      • cookie2 on 05/08/2022 - 22:39

        I started worrying about this when dominos introduced their service dee. It's really concerning and ppl shouldn't be standing for it.

        • Not SkyNet on 06/08/2022 - 08:27

          Gave me a reason to not buy from Dominos again , it was insulting they charge a higher price of products for delivery (which was to factor for delivery already ) then adding a surcharge, if they want to do that the pizza cost should be the same as pickup then they can add a surcharge.

    • pharkurnell on 05/08/2022 - 10:53
      +2

      …it was included services such as them taking our costs and pouring/refilling our water glasses

      WTF?

    • kerfuffle on 05/08/2022 - 11:16
      +1

      Sounds normal for a group of 10; they usually get tacked on if you have a group of say six or more

      • morse on 05/08/2022 - 19:59

        It is hard work having a group and they tend to stay longer which means loss or income from another sitting. But many places deal with this by having a set menu or banquet only for large groups. Surcharges are a bit off putting in my view, especially if not very clear up front.

  • JimB on 05/08/2022 - 10:49
    +9

    Legal but scummy.

    Vote with your feet.

    I've boycotted Komeyui in Melb for the same reason- Service charge of 5% on weekdays & Saturdays, 10% on Sundays, 15% on public holidays applies

    The Omakase is already a $250 per person. The minimum extra $12.5 is just insulting. I'm sure they will also add a C/C surcharge.

    • pharkurnell on 05/08/2022 - 10:53

      The Omakase is already a $250 per person

      thats funny!

    • tonydav on 05/08/2022 - 10:56
      +6

      That's my take too. I think technically legal but not within the spirit.

      I think just to piss them off I'll put a complaint into the ACCC.

      • [Deactivated] on 05/08/2022 - 11:42
        +3

        make sure to leave a few negative reviews on different sites. keep it factual, so they don't get removed.

        most people feel the same way as you do, so you will probably get at least a few potential customers to go somewhere else.

    • TilacVIP on 06/08/2022 - 07:59

      Agreed. Went to Rashays at Darling harbour. Prices are not that cheap to begin with, but then they shove it up your rear with a 10% service charge.

      Won't "ever" be going to that back there again.

  • jason101 on 05/08/2022 - 11:14
    +6

    I love this place, but I hate the fee - I got into a minor argument over it last time as the service fee on the APP (which you are encouraged to use) was different to a staff placed order / service fee. ie/ Pay more (and a compulsory tip) to order your own food via the app while sitting at the table…. how does that work ?

  • Drakesy on 05/08/2022 - 11:16
    +5

    Hmm, we pay our hospitality staff decent wages so we don't have to pay tips.

    This straddles the line, if they charge for service i'd ask if i could pour the drink myself or grab it from the fridge.

    I get public holidays but any other day they're taking the piss.

    From ACCC:

    Restaurants, cafes & bistros
    Restaurants, cafes and bistros that charge a surcharge on certain days do not need to provide a separate menu or price list or have a separate price column with the surcharge factored in. However, the menu must include the words 'a surcharge of [percentage] applies on [the specified day or days]' and these words must be displayed at least as prominently as the most prominent price on the menu.
    If the menu does not have prices listed, these words must be displayed in a way that is conspicuous and visible to a reader. These measures apply to pricing for both food and beverages.

  • orangetrain on 05/08/2022 - 11:22
    +6

    Please leave reviews highlighting this at google so that people like me are aware.

  • tonydav on 05/08/2022 - 11:32
    +8

    I'll definitely be posting on Google, also lodged a complaint with the ACCC. Not that I think the latter will do any good.

    ACCC Complaints

  • SBOB on 05/08/2022 - 11:41
    +1

    was this paying via their 'app' ordering or paying directly at the bar?
    last time i went to one of their places i found this kind of price difference when ordering via the app, whereas it wasnt applied when ordering via the bar (and could also avoid cc fees via ordering at bar and using alternative to cc)

    • tonydav on 05/08/2022 - 12:43
      +1

      Actually sitting at the bar, right beside the beer taps. So he poured and passed. Didn't even need to walk!

  • Seraphin7 on 05/08/2022 - 11:53
    +7

    Legal? IANAL.

    But "does it pass the pub test"? Absolutely not. As you say, if it's effectively not possible to pay the advertised price for a menu item under any circumstances then there is clearly a sneaky practice at play.

  • vikvance on 05/08/2022 - 12:08
    -7

    The service charge is literally spelled out on the menu, so of course it's perfectly legal.

    I think if you had looked around closely, then you might also have spotted a small sign somewhere mentioning the service charge.

    • pharkurnell on 05/08/2022 - 12:54
      -2

      Not sure why you got negged - the logic is infront of people.. like it or not

      • GrueHunter on 05/08/2022 - 17:29
        +5

        "Consumer laws don't matter, you can just write your own" /s

    • cookie2 on 05/08/2022 - 22:44
      +1

      Oh well that's perfectly wonderful then. Everyone, moce along. Nothing of interest to every one of us. /s lets all pay the lovely fee, on each day of the week (as opposed to 'certain'). /s

  • CrowReally on 05/08/2022 - 12:10
    +12

    "One cider please, no ice, no service".

    ???

    "It's fine, I don't need service, I'll serve myself" (proceeds to move behind counter)

    • Quantumcat on 05/08/2022 - 22:20
      +4

      Service charge is built into the price, otherwise it would cost the same as you going down to Dan Murphy's

      • CrowReally on 06/08/2022 - 10:38

        A lot of their other overheads are certainly built into the price (rent, utilities, napkins) but service isn't - that's why it's an additional surchage mentioned separately.

        • Quantumcat on 06/08/2022 - 15:28

          Why would the costs of their staff be any different to the costs of their rent?

          • CrowReally on 06/08/2022 - 17:20
            +1

            @Quantumcat: I don't know, does their rent go up on Sundays and public holidays?

            Is the fact that there's existing service surchages already in place proof enough that separate service charges exist?

            They're using the existing service surcharge mechanism to cover their increased weekly wages amounts. I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to pretend it doesn't exist.

            • Quantumcat on 06/08/2022 - 18:54

              @CrowReally:

              I don't know, does their rent go up on Sundays and public holidays?

              Did you not notice that it was service charges every day that were being discussed. Not Sunday/public holiday surcharges.

              • CrowReally on 06/08/2022 - 19:01
                -5

                @Quantumcat: Which is exactly why I said "They're using the existing service surcharge mechanism to cover their increased weekly wages amount".

                They've added extra regular wage costs on as an additional surcharge at the bottom of the menu.

                I guess if you wanted to you could say "I don't want to read the small print, I've decided the true number is the top one" but while you're at it you might as well say "It costs less at Dan Murphy's so make it that price while you're at it" for where it'll get you.

  • tsunamisurfer on 05/08/2022 - 12:38

    As a consumer we have the power to go elsewhere, only then do they understand the impact of such crappy fees.

    But I suspect most people don't mind, like some don't mind paying credit card interest rates, or BNPL fees or surge prices for ride shares.

  • burningrage on 05/08/2022 - 12:56
    -7

    Pancake Parlour has just upped their Sunday Surcharge to include Saturday now. Sushi Jiro is 15% now on PHOL and Sundays. This is on top of Credit Card surcharges which I still don't like (and ACCC/RBA are trying their best to make sure CC Surcharges are there and charged despite other vendors such as Afterpay banning it).

    But this is what Australians voted for so I think either go elsewhere (but many have closed down bankrupt) or start cooking at home.

    In 2024, petrol price will increase substantially again due to new 43% emissions reduction standard and I hope Australians will find it themselves not to complain because it is self-inflicted.

    • terrys on 07/08/2022 - 09:32

      2024, petrol price will increase substantially again due to new 43% emissions reduction standard a

      How nice - a recursive validation of a poster's knowledge and qualifications to comment.

      Have you let the electoral commission know they got the result wrong as well?

  • KaTst3R on 05/08/2022 - 15:06
    +3

    I hate places that forces you to order through a QR code and you are made to pay a service charge to the app platform on top of CC fee. What happen to old skool method of receiving a physical menu, interaction with waiter/waitress and paying cash at the counter.

    • CrowReally on 05/08/2022 - 15:20

      Oh, I know the answer to this one.

      "COVID"

      • KaTst3R on 05/08/2022 - 17:08
        +1

        Then OP the answer to OP's question.

        "Inflation"

    • bobbified on 05/08/2022 - 19:55
      +3

      Some of these places even ask at the end if you want to leave a tip! lol

    • cookie2 on 05/08/2022 - 22:47

      I ask for the menu. Occasionally get push back but I just reiterate. Just important to do it nicely, not like a dhead. We're all just earning a living.

  • Subere on 05/08/2022 - 16:58
    +7

    Didn't penalty rates get abolished so that would entice employers to have more staff on weekends and PH? Instead there are less staff and every place STILL charges penalty rates % increase on weekends and PH….

    And on top of that, I've noticed the past couple years everywhere are passing on their CC and EFTPOS charges to the customer instead of wearing that cost like they used to.
    But you get a discount if using cash.
    So much for a cashless or contactless payment system during COVID eh?

    I remember a number of years ago I was at a fancy fine dining restaurant. The bill ends up being near $200. And they pass on the CC surcharge. Surely an expensive joint like this can wear that cost. As soon as I see those surcharges I opt for EFTPOS (if there are no charges on that) or possibly cash.
    Also means absolutely no tip.

  • TilacVIP on 06/08/2022 - 08:02
    +1

    In these tough times, seems some places are just going keep testing peoples patience.

  • Trekky on 06/08/2022 - 09:36

    Is there a website that tracks what companies charges all these fees? There are a few places I always pay cash now due to their fees.

  • JIMB0 on 06/08/2022 - 09:55

    A true ozbargainer would sneak in their own drinks.

  • Vote for Pedro on 06/08/2022 - 13:36

    I’m not sure if it is legal to never be able to pay the advertised price. There are rules on menu prices and surcharges but I’ll have to look it up. Unethical at best, illegal at worst

    https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/transaction/meet-requirements…

  • ozbjunkie on 06/08/2022 - 17:51
    +1

    TIL OP HAS GIRLFRIEND

    I also remembered Bavarian can go f itself for that shady pricing

  • MisterX on 07/08/2022 - 09:47
    +2

    This isn't the USA, ffs

  • Poor Ass on 07/08/2022 - 10:10

    Legal if written and easily noticed on the menu or when ordering

    Couple of places in the touristy Surfers Paradise Gold Coast areas do this as well

    Don't like it but they can do it

  • greatlamp on 07/08/2022 - 10:58
    +2

    There's one near home. I might pop in for a beer and leave a one star review.

  • milhouseaus on 15/08/2022 - 10:16

    I discovered this 'service fee' last time I went back in May. IIRC it was only 3% then. I only saw/queried it when paying. The staff said 'yeah we don't like it either, feel free to complain'. They inferred it was some sort of covid recovery cost imposed by head office. As others have said they should adjust their prices if they feel the need. Weekend (mainly Sunday) and Public Holidays surcharges are one thing but weekday ones are unacceptable - especially when hidden at the very end of the fine print. Their food is ok and nice enough, but certainly not real cheap to start with and nothing to write home about so I won't be back while-ever this weekday surcharge exists.

    • tonydav on 15/08/2022 - 10:25
      +2

      Funny I got 2 e-mails at the same time. The alert from OB about your comment and one from the ACCC advising the next steps to take re my complaint.

      Which is to make a complaint to NSW Fair Trading

      Which I'll be doing. Not really worried about the cash, but just seems so dodgy.

  • samfisher5986 on 15/08/2022 - 14:25
    +1

    They clearly need more 1 star reviews for this practice, the department of fair trading should step in and do something about it.

  • DiscountForThee on 17/08/2022 - 10:07
    +2

    https://www.accc.gov.au/publications/advertising-selling/adv… Sounds like they should be advertising the FULL price of an item if it is unavoidable to pay only the base price

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