We’ve heard a lot said about the lack of people wanting to work as fruit pickers and the farmers saying that they’ve tried everything but people just don’t want to work.
I have my preconceived ideas about the key issue and it’s really about market forces. That is, the value placed on the labour supply. Simple economics.
Mandatory poll
I did the same in my late teens. The pay was below par and then the inflated accomodation costs were insane making it useless. Basically its barely enough for a single bloke to survive let alone save a few bucks.
The other issue is that most of the time, the work is flat out for a few weeks or maybe a few months and then it’s nothing for half a year or more.
Added to this, farms are usually way out in the boonies and you can’t just commute from your inner city studio apartment every day to go to work, so you need to move to the area for a job that may or may not have work for you next week and may not even pay enough for you to live in said town.
It’s great work for transient people like tourists that want some coins and then move on, but it’s hardly a career.
Is it really that great for tourists? That was the idea me and a few mates had to travel Oz, off the beaten track.
Didn’t work out as well as we thought.
I thought tourists only do it because farmwork is a requirement of some extended visas.
https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-li…
But you got to eat as much free fruit as you wanted, right?
(When the farmer wasn't looking)
Anything that was ripe you could eat as it won't survive the trip to market.
That wage is a very new ruling that only came into effect on 28 April 2022 and was a direct result of the Fairwork Commission ruling that paying per piece picked was not working, with some workers formerly earning as little as $1.25 an hour.
So yes you are right into the future, provided the award is followed there is a new minimum rate. However, up until recently the system the Op is referring to has been operating and I suspect there will be a lot of culture, custom and practice to get over before we see things change.
I could work at woolies up the road for the same rate, and I don’t need to pay for rural accommodation which is a rort
You think picking apples is bad, how do you think concreters, scaffolds, or general labourers survive lifting 20kg+ material all day for decades?
Either they're super-human, or you have no accurate benchmark of physical work.
You think picking apples is bad, how do you think concreters, scaffolds, or general labourers survive lifting 20kg+ material all day for decades?
they suffer later in life. buggered knees & back by 30 - 40, constant pain. i know a fencer in his late 30s, he has (profanity) his body (not a small guy, about 6"2 + and strong) just because the work is literally back breaking, but he has kids and it's all he knows, so he just has to cope because he has to feed and house his family.
Everyone suffers from their job later in life. I know people in their early 30s who've developed terrible spinal issues from sitting in an office chair every day.
The human body was made to work, lift, and run. It's a natural part of our biology and it's much healthier than sitting down all day. If you're not able to handle a few days of hard labour then you might want to check your fitness levels, but I suspect for most people it's simply a lack of perspective.
The human body was made to work, lift, and run.
not the way we do it these days. constantly lifting heavy weights is not something we are naturally designed to do, we are designed to lift them occasionally, but not all the time, which is what is required for these jobs. we are also not designed to spend hours each day on our knees the way that concreters do. you will just screw up your body in these jobs.
it's much healthier than sitting down all day.
not for your knees, back or joints. a poor sitting position is much easier to rectify, you can also take your free time and use it to exercise, you can't exercise away injuries from constant hard labour.
If you're not able to handle a few days of hard labour then you might want to check your fitness levels,
most people can handle a few days fine, the problem is that if you do the same thing day in, day out for years, you will be cursing your younger self for your stupidity.
constantly lifting heavy weights is not something we are naturally designed to do
LOL how do you think our ancestors survived? They had to chase down and slay animals on a daily basis, then carry them back to the village. Then run from predators. Then climb trees. Then give birth without an epidural.
The human body is capable of a lot more than what we've become accustomed to in the last 80 years.
a poor sitting position is much easier to rectify
Are you speaking from experience or just winging it? Safe lifting techniques also allow you to rectify dangerous conditions.
you will be cursing your younger self for your stupidity.
Construction work has been around for a very long time and most people don't curse themselves for it. You're giving into a few scare stories or exaggerated claims. My father did concreting for 45 years, before the days of all the special equipment we have today, and his body is fine.
The benefits of physical exercise and sunlight far outweigh the health impacts of outdoor work.
LOL how do you think our ancestors survived? They had to chase down and slay animals on a daily basis, then carry them back to the village. Then run from predators. Then climb trees. Then give birth without an epidural.
yes, and then they had periods to rest and recuperate, unlike the 5 days on 2 days off that most of us have to live with, they also didn't live as long as we do now. rather than an artificial "work week" they hunted when they needed to, and rested when they didn't.
Are you speaking from experience or just winging it? Safe lifting techniques also allow you to rectify dangerous conditions.
safe lifting techniques are rarely followed, the classic tradie mindset of thinking you don't need to worry about that stuff, it's also a lot easier to make one wrong move and injure yourself, even if you are trying to use the proper techniques
Construction work has been around for a very long time and most people don't curse themselves for it. You're giving into a few scare stories or exaggerated claims. My father did concreting for 45 years, before the days of all the special equipment we have today, and his body is fine.
i doubt he's completely fine, he probably has all sorts of aches and pains that you are unaware of, directly caused by his line of work. i'm not giving into any exaggerated claims or scare stories.
The benefits of physical exercise and sunlight far outweigh the health impacts of outdoor work.
again, not necessarily. worksites are not the best places for health, whether it's your knees, back, lungs, you can be healthier by exercising properly, even if you work in an office all week. some people do use proper lifting techniques and are not on their hands and knees all day, but i would guess that they are in the minority.
they hunted when they needed to, and rested when they didn't.
I really think you're undermining what it took to survive in the hunter gatherer days, or even any point before agriculture. There was very little time for resting. A fire only lasts a few hours until you need to chop down more trees with a makeshift axe. An animal carcass can't be stored until next week, you have to hunt a new one almost every day. Then skin it. Then gut it. Then cook it. Then fight a war with the neighbouring tribe.
Life was endless labour before technology came in.
safe lifting techniques are rarely followed, the classic tradie mindset of thinking you don't need to worry about that stuff
Well, I think it's pretty obvious you've never been on a job site or personally known many tradies. You're reading way too many magazine articles on the topic.
Workplace safety is the number 1 priority on job sites and breaching it is a sackable offence.
i doubt he's completely fine, he probably has all sorts of aches and pains
He's had injuries and spasms, but he's in awesome shape for his retirement. I come from a large immigrant community where nobody has a degree so construction is the only job avaliable. I know very few retired tradies with regrets. They all last just as long as anybody else.
I do labouring like that. Picking apples piece of piss.
Too much for too little.
work = get exploited, earn below minimum wage in gruelling conditions
It's worse than that. Some force you to stay in their accommodation (which you have to pay for) and eat their meals (which you have to pay for).
From the farms I’ve been to for work (unrelated to picking) their shortages are due to the distance from the city more then anything.
They pay reasonably well for the hard work you have to do but they are in the middle of no where.
Some offer accommodation, but it’s no crown hotel resort…
So to me the main issue is, who aside from backpackers wants to go live in the bush in a donga for a few months?
If your travelling and only plan to work a few months then continue on your trip it can work well. No accommodation/bills sitting at home for you while your on the farm.
But if you have a house or any grounding away from the farm, it’s pointless, bills still accumulating at home, earning ok wages but away from family and friends for months. Better off working for a mine company.
Yes and no.
From my time up in KNX early 2000's … I spent 4 weeks working on a farm (ran out of money during my 4 month AU 4WD trip around the top end of AU) - so needed to find work, any work at that.
IMO - pay is really crap for what it is + working outside in sun - sometimes 40 degree days/humidity + long days (10-12 hours days) + early starts (think it was a 3am pickup from in town) + drinking soo soo much water to stop dehydration … sweat was always pouring off me at a huge rate.
For majority of farms around KNX region …farms use their own daily shuttle transport from town to farm (roughly 20-30 mins drive).
For 4 weeks work, I made just enough to pay weekly expenses + accom + fuel + etc … to make it onto the next town on my journey …. And no, wasn't a backpacker - 100% aussie, but did rough it in afew places when $$$ were low.
Still, all-in-all … that 4WD trip up north … it was a lasting experience that has stayed with me for so long. If i had my time again, would still go back up north for a holiday.
To be fair your experience was 20 odd years ago. And a different region and different circumstances to now. But understand that could very well be the case in some places still today.
My experience is with farms in WA.
Which for the most part seem to pay ok.
Some of the farms I’ve been to have workers earning up to and over $500 a day if they are quick efficient pickers and are happy to go hard all day. (Eg: one of them pay $50 a crate and reckon most people do 6 crates a day in around 7-8 hours, but some people smash it and can do 12 crates from sunrise to sunset)
For unskilled labour, thats good money.
But when you factor in it is dependent on your physical capabilities, endurance and willingness to live rough for long periods, It’s not too appealing for anyone local.
Why would they do that when they could earn more as a labourer, be fed 3 meals a day and housed for free and home every second week working for a mine site.
So what you’re saying is that it doesn’t meet the market to attract labour?
@Vote for Pedro: I would say it isn’t even in the market as a normal job because it’s not just a job, it’s a lifestyle and only suits a very niche employee pool.
Comparatively it can be a lucrative job for unskilled labour, but average joe doesn’t want to live in the bush for 2/3 months.
Realistically at the rates I mentioned above it can be far superior to minimum wage averaging $30-40+ an hour but it comes at a personal cost and with an uncomfortable lifestyle.
It suits transient people more then those tied to the city.
In the past there has been a big reliance on flown in Pacific island workers, who are used to tough work and find the pay tolerable.
I guess with covid that workforce is reduced, and the growers don't want to pay wages sufficient to attract local labour.
The labour cost of an orange is a few cents, you could double wages and it would be a blip to everyone except some line in the Coles annual report. The fact they don't shows the kind of lack of competition the ACCC should really be investigating.
Some info here about pay rates:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2022-04-08/fruit-and-veg-p…
Talking to backpackers while on the road (edit:pre-covid), I believe Australia generally pays quite well, a lot better than NZ I hear… A lot of backpackers come here to get their savings up before heading to NZ where pay is lower and cost of living is higher, over there the backpackers can barely survive on what they earn doing seasonal work and such.. (fruit picking or working in tourism/hospitality)
Right, so why can’t they get workers?
In the current post-covid times I assume the numbers of backpackers floating around the country is still fairly low and the ones that are coming probably aren't having an issue finding work in more populated and popular places on the coast… Plus when they head to remote areas for their mandated remote/regional//farm work requirements to renew their visas they're probably taking the more cushy jobs in pubs, road houses, tourism, and the likes, which tends to be in the towns and such, they're not having to resort to hard work stuck on remote farms where's there's nothing to do other than work… . (backpackers love to party/socialize/shag, there's probably not much opportunity for that on farms)
As for why Aussies aren't working on remote farms fruit/veg picking, the transient life doesn't suit most people and we tend to be lazy buggers, lol …. Motivated Aussies that dont mind a transient life and hard work are probably doing slightly more skilled work in mines, trades, tourism or the likes…
So you’re saying that the value proposition to attract locals or even backpackers is poor? That is, the pay isn’t worth it when you can get something better for same or more money?
Supply and demand, farmers do not want to pay the required amount to get the people necessary to do the job, so they do not come, then they complain that noone is willing to do the job.
I wouldn’t mind doing it but none of the ones near me offer accomodation (I would be happy with a clean bed and a place to wash) and with petrol costs (near is being a bit generous) it just isn’t worth it for the pay, which is pretty low. They’ve already flown in seasonal workers here, so I guess they don’t really need to adjust the pay according to the cost of living in aus.
Because they've built the industry around exploiting foreign workers forced to pick fruit for a visa
Farmers relied for years on the various visa programs where they basically exploit the crap out of back packers, Pacific Islanders, etc in order to get cheap labour. Instead of improving conditions so Aussies actually want to work picking fruit, the government focused on getting in more labour on visas instead - Vietnam has signed up for the Australian Agriculture Visa Program, that'll be the next batch of workers to exploit.
Or anyone remember the government pushing young people to do it for the change to take instagram photos? Anything besides paying decent wages for what is bloody hard work.
What's truly horrible is Australia has quite expensive fruit and veg compared to a lot of the world. It seems to be feeding profits to the middlemen though.
Agree it seems to be the middleman like Coles and Woolworths, fruit and veg is always half the price at the fruit and veg shop next door.
It's been over 25 years since I worked at Coles or Woolies (fruit & beg) but I can remember they often used to own those shops as well.
Supermarkets seem to like to keep consistent prices all year round despite some produce having seasons. Citrus was basically being given away last month (there was a deal on here for navel oranges for 9c a kg a couple of weeks ago) yet woolworths has 96c per individual navel orange at the moment. The profit on each orange must be ridiculous.
People respond to price movements, they don't really pay attention to the fact they're massively overpaying for some goods all year round. We notice when a lettuce spikes to $7 but not when oranges cost $1 all year regardless of seasonality.
saying that they’ve tried everything but people just don’t want to work.
If you look at all 'markets' in the world that are screaming they can't get staff, it generally boils down to one thing….. They don't pay enough for the job at hand.
The USA is screaming for 'retail' workers, funny enough when you only pay minimum wage people don't want to bust their guts for next to nothing.
In Australia Fruit pickers get ~$25/hr after taxes for back breaking work. My local coffee shop offers those rates and I don't need to travel to the country, live in share house etc oh and the coffee shop work is all year round.
https://www.awu.net.au/national/news/2022/02/16255/new-fruit…
it generally boils down to one thing….. They don't pay enough for the job at hand.
This. I keep telling people that come in to work that complain about not being able to get workers or who try and poach me, "It's not that people don't want to work or you cant get workers, it just that there are more jobs than bodies at the moment and people want a greater share of the money. If you are charging your workers out at $230/h and only giving them $35 and driving around in a 2022 $150,000+ Dodge Ram/Chev Silverado while they can only afford a 12yo busted arse Hyundai Elantra, of course they are not going to want to work for you."
Same in the UK. After Brexit, there was an exodus of cheap foreign labour, and the UK is still struggling to get workers for jobs like farmwork, abattoirs, cleaning. The Brits don't want to do those jobs and the wages are so low there is little or no incentive.
Farmers crying, find that hard to believe
It's extremely tough, physically demanding work, most people would need to relocate their entire life to… go and pick fruit… and then the pay is shit.
Hmm, i wonder why that doesn't sound attractive to most people.
Lol the comments above pretty much prove that nobody wants to work unless the job pays lawyers wages.
Tourists aren't going to be doing it legally because you are not allowed to work on a tourist visa! Those on working holiday and other visa types can but numbers entering is still quite low.
Why? Because rampant wage theft, sexual harassment, farmers raping workers, and that section of the AUS-UK free trade agreement exempting UK working holidaymakers from spending three months in a farm.
https://7news.com.au/business/workplace-matters/workers-on-a…
THE GREAT LIE
It's not about being too far from city, too physically demanding, lack of good accommodation [insert any seemingly reasonable explanation here] because all those reasons apply to many other jobs in one way or another.
It's simply because they aren't paying enough for people to feel they are being adequately compensated for tolerating the hardships of that particular job.
The current labour shortage clearly demonstrates the great LIE that our economic system it built upon and that we all are brainwashed to believe… that the market is self balancing by the law of "supply and demand" however in reality this only applies to the rich CEOs. For the rest of us whenever the market favours increasing wages for the poor, businesses cry hard up and lobby the government to allow the import of cheap labour!
So in reality our economic system works like this… High demand for labour = higher wages and bonuses for the rich BUT = globally shopping for more poor people to import so wages don't increase for the poor.
The foundation principal of our economic system "supply and demand" is simply a fraud sold to the poor to keep them working as is clearly demonstrated by our current supposed "labour shortage" which in reality is not a shortage of people wanting to work but businesses not wanting to pay!
And to preemptively address the people that say businesses can't afford to increases wages please review the latest economic figures and you will see that business profits have skyrocketed in the last 2 years whilst real wages have decreased.
So we should join the movement started by young Chinese people that have realised this great economic LIE and the fact that working harder and longer does NOT get you the rewards you should get. The movement is called "tangping" meaning “lying flat” and "bai lan" meaning "let it rot" which I think given this particular job of fruit picking is beautifully applicable… "LET IT ROT" until they pay a wage that the majority of people (the market) feel fairly compensates for that job.
After all isn't that how our great supply and demand system is meant to work?
So, pay a fruit picker $50.00/hr. My 1kg of peaches ends up being $100.00….hmmm don’t think so.
Yeah you're right let's keep wages for the poor low so you can have cheap peaches… your shortsighted logic is exactly the reason why the rich get richer and the poor keep picking fruit.
May I suggest you reread my post again but this time broaden it's application beyond just the cost of your peaches.
I'm pretty sure you can get millions of peaches for free
The increase in wages would be from $25/hr to $50/hr. It doesn't take an hour to pick a kg of peaches. More like 1 minute if you consider picking off the tree and packing.
Your peaches will be $0.50/kg more expensive.
The dairy industry on some farms also have trouble getting then keeping workers.
A lot of farmers are irregular when paying staff might pay this week then in 4 weeks time they don't know when they will be paid. Coming in well before the sun rise for a couple hours(minimum wage) of milking then go home and wait all day for a couple more hours late in the day it can be cold, wet and potentially dangerous it does not appeal to many.
Super entitlements are often lost or have to be fought for. There are some good farm employers out there but they are few and far between.
Apart from a lack of workers visiting from other countries, what I read is that most people these days are more clued in on mental well being and putting themselves and job satisfaction first. Perhaps this kind of job doesn't gel well with those ideas so it is impacted this way. People might want to go straight into the best jobs they can apply ford and get in early so they can start saving for a house deposit while still being able to get premium brand name clothes, a new car and pay for all their subscriptions, etc. With all these high costs now, very few want to consider this kind of work, location and pay rate combined.
And why shouldn't the poor's lifestyle expectations be raised due to the benefits from technology… OR should they be happy with no lifestyle improvements whilst watching only the rich benefit who can find nothing better to do with their wealth than buy another luxury yacht.
Again don't take this example too literally like "Mr Peaches" and you'll get the idea.
Well, one sentence I read regarding this issues is this:
Many Australians are very happy to work picking fruit but they want to be paid for their effort
Yes exactly… It's not that it's too physical, too far away [add all fruit picking job traits here].
It's simply that people (who are "the market" that set a fair price) have decided that the pay rate is NOT fair.
Yet people are still brainwashed by the rich that "the market" should work for any rate if they don't have a job. This is NOT true as to do so people will have a subsistence living standard for their whole life.
There's no truer saying than "The comfort of the rich is assured by the abundance of the poor"
(For Mr Peaches and alike who have trouble seeing the big picture "abundance of the poor" means a large population of poor NOT they the poor have an abundance of anything ;-)
If you can't hire, you simply need to pay more or offer better conditions to to attract workers that is how a 'Free' market works
I get tired of businesses moaning about struggling to hire people that pay next to min wage (in some cases below)
👍
A couple of years ago after I lost my job I emailed a company responsible for picking in SE QLD. Introduced myself, told them I had my own transport, I was willing to travel & available immediately. They requested a resume ffs, normally not an unreasonable request but if a backpacker can do it, I sure af can.
Yes I agree it's a rediculous request for this type of job especially as they have been whinging for years about the lack of labour.
However this rediculousness is not just limited to unskilled labour… I'm in the IT industry and it is also whining to the government about labour shortage in the hope they will be able to import more poor people usually from India (nothing against Indians it's the unwillingness to lift pay rates in order to attract labour I'm highlighting).
Yet the skill requirements listed in many IT jobs are rediculous! It would be like advertising for a doctor that "specialises" in brain surgery + heart transplants + kidney disease + dermatologist and is also a GP… oh and the pay rate is the same as a nurse. I had this very conversation with an HR guy that rang me for a job the other day and he totally agreed with this analogy.
i was looking for work a while back and i saw an article in the local news about a farm whinging that they didn't have enough workers, so i looked them up and emailed them asking for a job, as i needed work and they needed workers, they never bothered to respond. in hindsight, they probably just wanted cheap foreign labour from Fiji who are easy to rip off because they don't know any better.
Yep exactly.
I used to think globalisation was a good thing, now I realise it's just a licence for big business to globally shop for the most desparate workers. Because they are able to fill positions with these desperate people this keeps local wages low regardless of the high local demand for labour.
The end result is local pay and conditions is driven DOWN to the lowest common denominator they can find around the world.
Without local laws preventing this it will always be the case as globally there are plenty of desperate workers to draw from… As I said above:
"The comfort of the rich is assured by the abundance of the poor".
Anyone on the dole should be offered the job and if they don’t wanna do it, the dole should be cut off
That's fair if the job is within commuting distance of where the welfare recipient lives and there's transport available, you cant really force someone living in a city suburb to move and take a job out in whoop whoop where there's no reasonable housing, transport, and such, where a lot of these picking jobs are…
At 3.5% unemployment, clearly they’re not trying hard enough to find work where they live.
It's getting a bit off topic but there's a good chance quite a high percentage of the unemployed have other issues that contribute, substance abuse, anti-social, low-IQ, mental health, or such….
At the end of the day you cant really force people to do a job they dont want to do, they'd just end up as a liability… Do you think someone forced to pick fruit would handle it gently?, there's a good chance they'd make an effort to bruise as much as they can…
Your statement clearly shows your complete ignorant on this topic since 3.5% is close to what is considered "full employment" in economics since there will always be ~3% of ppl that are not or choose not to work for a variety of reasons:
"Generally, an unemployment rate of 3% or less would be considered to be full employment."
Source: https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/453/unemployment/definiti…
The fact that we are close to "full employment" yet ppl are still not attracted to these jobs is further evidence that they are just not paying enough!
choose not to work for a variety of reasons
And my taxes shouldn’t be subsidising someone choosing not to work. Don’t you think that’s reasonable?
As for @Flickit saying “At the end of the day you cant really force people to do a job they dont want to do” - no one is forcing. It’s a choice. If you are unemployed and want to be picky with the job, then you should live with the consequences of your choice. If you knock back work, you should lose Government support.
In short:
1) There is NO shortage of money at the top end of town.
2) The small percentage of ppl abusing unemployment benefits amounts to mere crumbs in contrast to the vast amounts of tax avoidance going on in large companies and overpaid managers and CEOs.
3) In general ALL ppl want to work as in addition to more money it gives them a sense of self worth.
4) There will always be a small percentage of ppl that don't want to work but this anomolly occurs in EVERY system so shouldn't be seen as a reason to stop that system and penalize the majority.
Yes I used to think like this as well until I worked for a large Oil and Gas company who made soooo much profit & management was paid amounts that would make your eyes water yet they would still play the poor card and cut back on biscuits in the tearoom for the lowly workers.
Then the penny dropped and I realised that regardless of their record profits they will ALWAYS claim they can't afford wage rises so it's up to the workers to withhold their labour until they do.
So not paying ppl unemployed benefits and/or forcing them into lowly paid jobs is removing the only tool in the toolbox for workers as businesses will realise ppl HAVE to accept any wage no matter how low.
Yes of course there will always be a small percentage of ppl that will stay on unemployed no matter what but that's the case with ANY system… There's ppl that abuse alcohol, ppl that scream racial slurs at football games and ppl that despite it's bright yellow lid still toss their organic waste into my recycle bin when I put it out for collection.
So do you ban alcohol, football games, recycle bins… No that's just letting the few spoil it for the many!
And why do you think Putin has an endless supply of meat to drive tanks into Ukraine?
Because the ppl of Russia have little to no unemployment benefits and will do anything for money… War is another very dangerous conscience of removing social benefits from society, it ensures ppl can be more easily manipulated and controlled.
3 contradicts 2 and 4 and 2 and 4 contradict 3.
So not paying ppl unemployed benefits and/or forcing them into lowly paid jobs is removing the only tool in the toolbox for workers as businesses will realise ppl HAVE to accept any wage no matter how low.
You mean legal award wages? So if you are offered a job that pays the legal wage (which other people are doing) and you say ‘no, pay more or nup not doern it’ you should still get a handout? How’s that fair on me who works the minimum wage job? Hows that fair on taxpayers.
There's ppl that abuse alcohol, ppl that scream racial slurs at football games and ppl that despite it's bright yellow lid still toss their organic waste into my recycle bin when I put it out for collection.
So do you ban alcohol, football games, recycle bins… No that's just letting the few spoil it for the many!
You know people who are abusive at footy games suffer consequences such as being ejected and or banned. People not recycling properly get warnings and potential penalties from council. Seems you want no consequences for people choosing not to work a legal job.
RE "How’s that fair on me who works the minimum wage job?"
It always baffles me why poor ppl like yourself try to keep their socioeconomic peers DOWN rather than like the rich try to help each other attain a better deal… This is exactly why John Barilaro got the $500,000 + $130,000 expense allowance job that you never will.
Yes that makes great sense… I'm on a low wage so let's argue to keep wages for ppl like myself DOWN while others are getting rediculously high (and in many cases tax payer funded) wages.
Do you really think John Barilaro is such a more superior human being than yourself to deserve that wage?
Well perhaps you do but I certainly don't!
I come from a poor family but am better educated (self funded) and better versed in economics than that guy will ever be!
As said I just don't understand why the poor are so intent on keeping the poor poor yet are prepared to accept the obscene wages and wealth of the rich. It's sadly funny that here I am trying to enlighten a fellow poor person like myself yet you fight this enlightenment and attack my comments so you can hang on tightly to your underprivileged lifestyle.
Please go watch "The matrix" again and you may realise that your comments are of a "blue pill" person that wants to remain in contented ignorance.
@FairDeal: Your view is literally unhinged. Your view is why it’s so easy to demonise the left. If you think you are helping your cause I’m going to suggest you ask some of your moderate peers, who don’t subscribe to loony greens ideology, what they think.
Your points literally have no relation to anything I said (they literally contradict each other). You choose to bludge on the dole rather than get a job and then fight for better conditions. I for one don’t want to be contributing to your lifestyle choices. I choose to work. You choose to not work.
@Awoke: Awoke you need to take the RED pill so you can WAKEUP because you're asleep to reality… Perhaps change your name from Awoke to ASLEEP.
Your sleepy state of mind is perhaps why you are so ignorant to the real world and make erroneous conclusions and assumptions such as the one that I'm on the dole since I have never received any government support in any way shape or form.
My background is from very humble beginnings and after much hard work I have made enough money to retire early and be comfortable. So I have a fairly good perspective to see both the poor and rich side of things.
I don't know your background but unlike you I won't be so arrogant as to make any assumptions. However coming from a poor socio-economic background to one where I am financially comfortable I may be tempted to forget about the poor and support laws that favour ppl with some wealth and assets like me but I do NOT. Instead I don't forget where I came from and want to ensure the poor are treated fairly and will at least have a chance to better themselves like I had.
Money begets money so the rich will always be able to look after themselves.
Plus as I said earlier the rich HELP each other to become wealthier but again for some strange reason many poor ppl like you are now doing, inexplicably argue strongly to keep their poor socio-economic peers poor!
It's such a strange psychology!
Despite this when I come across ppl like you I put my resentment aside by borrowing a line from the bible:
"Lord forgive them for they know not what they do".
@FairDeal: The difference between me and you is I don’t expect a handout if I choose not to work. And that alone says enough about our differences in culture and ethics.
Does your lord expect you to try and help thy self or just sit back and accept charity?
@Awoke: Keep re-readling my posts above until you can comprehend even a small amount of the valuable information I have given you.
Sadly your last post clearly demonstrates you have understood nothing.
Good luck with the rest of your life however unfortunately given your thoughts here you're in for a tough one… Just try not to drag others down with you.
@FairDeal: I have. It says you don’t want to work until you get what you want and you expect to get benefits until you decide you want a job.
Did I misunderstand that?
@Awoke: Yes.
Keep re-reading until you come up with another understanding then you'll be so much better equipped to understand economics and hopefully should be able to negotiate better deals for your current and/or future jobs.
If that happens just return to this thread one day and just give me a simple "Thank you" for this valuable information I have given you.
Then the penny dropped and I realised that regardless of their record profits they will ALWAYS claim they can't afford wage rises so it's up to the workers to withhold their labour until they do.
So not paying ppl unemployed benefits and/or forcing them into lowly paid jobs is removing the only tool in the toolbox
Please explain?
@Awoke: It's self explanatory.
It's good that you're trying to understand.
Just keep re-reading and apply some of this information to the world around you and hopefully at some point your brain may swallow the red pill ("metaphorically"… so you don't ask me to explain that) and you will be on the path to enlightenment.
@FairDeal: You get that when real workers ‘withhold their labour’ (strike) in support of better pay and conditions they don’t actually get paid for the time of that action? That’s the point of a strike - being willing to give up pay to show how serious you are about your claims.
You want to be able to withhold your labour and still get handouts. Clearly you have a sense of entitlement beyond any reality.
@FairDeal: Ah yes, the “I haven’t had a coherent argument for a while now, so I’ll look like I’m taking the high ground” play. Weak. Also, entitled.
If farmers were smart, they'd figure out a way to uberise the industry, it's a legal way to pay well below minimum wage and your shareholders will be all smiles
I still want my cheap peaches.
Farmers are whinny soft cocks. "It's to wet , it's to dry, not enough cheap labour to exploit, fuel prices are to high".
All ways with their hands out to government.
If there is good value, I'll buy foreign imports any day.
Who wants to work a back breaking job for $5/hour?
I did fruit picking many many years ago in my youth and it is not a long term prospect. Every day I came home feeling like I had been put through a chaffing machine both mentally and physically. It basically boarded on slavery.