Just Been Told No Holiday Leave Will Be Granted from 1st of Oct 2022 to 31st Jan 2022, but I Am Casual?

Aerith-Waifu on 06/09/2022 - 18:45
Last edited 07/09/2022 - 09:42 by 1 other user

I been in full time employment pretty much all my life, never really taken a casual role which doesn't allow leave as my understanding is they can fire me given 1 hour notice and I can not take a shift within 2 hours before the shifts starts, no holiday pay and no sick pay etc etc.

But just been told no holiday allowed???????? Never even mentioned this when they hired me. I got a holiday booked mid Jan to Singapore next year.

Is this the new thing or is this even legal me been a casual working 8 hours per week only?????

Poll Options

  • 14
    1: Very legal, quit or cancel the holiday
  • 159
    2: As a casual employee you are free to do what you want
  • 0
    3: The rule of not taking holiday during certain period applies to casual
  • 2
    4: The rule of not taking holiday during certain period does not apply to casual
Education & Work

Comments

  • brendanm on 06/09/2022 - 18:50
    +32

    It's not a holiday, you simply can't work any shifts for that time period.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 06/09/2022 - 18:59
      +2

      Oh i see! Good thinking. Never even came across my mind

      • Hedgehog on 07/09/2022 - 08:29
        +4

        Yes and then never get rostered many shifts, tis the ozzie way to ease you out without sacking you for not being a 'team player"

  • Presence on 06/09/2022 - 18:53
    +29

    What they might be trying to say is that you cant refuse any shift they ask you to work - since you are casual they cant force you to take shifts, but if you refuse they can also simply not offer you any more shifts in the future (essentially firing you). Theres pretty much nothing you can do about it. Start looking for another job if they are going to be difficult.

    • mskeggs on 06/09/2022 - 20:43
      +12

      If they are so short staffed they are refusing any leave, I suspect they will still have a job for you when you return!

      • JIMB0 on 07/09/2022 - 08:08
        +6

        I wouldn't count on it. Some companies can be rather spiteful, even if it means they suffer themselves.

    • Jalif on 07/09/2022 - 08:51

      Which is actually illegal, but common practice.

      See if you can get it in writing, at least you'll have a job when you come back.

  • Seraphin7 on 06/09/2022 - 18:57
    +3

    It really depends how you look at it. As a casual you don't "get holidays". You simply inform your employer that you are unavailable during the period of your holidays (although prudently you would discuss the matter with them). Whether or not your employer makes any shifts available for you after that time (or, in fact, at any time) is a separate question.

    In your circumstance, I assume you have booked the holiday without any discussion or express agreement with your employer. This leaves you in the situation where you can discuss your circumstance and see if anything can be done (noting the above points). It is entirely possible that you'll be left with a take it or leave situation.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 06/09/2022 - 19:01
      +3

      I did mention this when I was first hired and the recruitment manager made a note of that at the time, however this no holiday allowed during such such was never mentioned to me during the interview. Only been notified this verbally yesterday.

      • Seraphin7 on 06/09/2022 - 20:04

        By recruitment managers do you mean as in a third party agent? They simply do not divulge any information that could lead to them not placing you … even if it places you in a bind from day one.

        I started a contract position years ago where I made in clear that I had an unavoidable two week leave requirement not long after starting … "all good" was the response. Of course, I get to the job, mention this a few days in and get the old "first I've heard of it".

        • Aerith-Waifu on 06/09/2022 - 20:38
          +1

          Not the third party agent, it was the second interview which with the store manager of the current store I am working in now.

  • AustriaBargain on 06/09/2022 - 19:06

    Maybe the person who wrote that assumed all employees were permanent or full-time.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 06/09/2022 - 19:08

      Hardly, I know there is at least 8 casuals including me.

      • AustriaBargain on 06/09/2022 - 19:10
        -2

        Did you write this email which banned holidays to yourself?

      • cookie2 on 06/09/2022 - 19:18
        +7

        Just email them and advise as per your discussion at time of commencement and with the hiring manager, you're unavailable over xx dates. Advise that it's already booked and was discussed previously with no mention and you won't be available. Tell them early again so no excuses from them like they don't have time etc. If you can cc the hiring manager in, it might be a good idea too.

  • GrueHunter on 06/09/2022 - 19:17
    +4

    Are you going to buy a new keyboard in Singapore????????????????????

  • sjj89 on 06/09/2022 - 19:22
    +3

    Wildly poor behaviour for your employer to block out 4 months of the year less than a month out from the block out starting.

    What is the reasoning? Retail or something?

    • Aerith-Waifu on 06/09/2022 - 19:30

      Yes retail job, 8 hours a week, 4 hours on Saturday and 4 hours on Sunday is all i do

      But its not my main job. My main job is work from home.

      • dizzle on 06/09/2022 - 21:48
        +1

        Retail is a pretty standard blackout period October-January as often December is more than 20% of the years sales and October-January was maybe 40-50% of the year.

        However it depends on the store and thier sales forecasting as to how strict that is. The last couple of years I was rostering over Christmas I found that as long as there weren't several people unavailable at once, then it could be handled with the exception of last three weeks of december and first week of January. So mid January would probably be OK, but I don't know how busy your store expects to be then.

        Of course as a casual you can make yourself unavailable, but they can also give you 0 hours.

  • morse on 06/09/2022 - 19:24
    +3

    You’re absolutely free not to work, but be aware they may not roster you when you get back - that’s how casual works. It depends how desperate they are for you after your hols, and how much you want to go back.

  • Unorthodox on 06/09/2022 - 19:30

    Christmas casual and other retail gigs do have black out periods over the holiday break where it's implied you're not going away.

    You can just not be available for the shifts requested

  • pegaxs on 06/09/2022 - 19:37
    +10

    What you say to them is, “I’m not taking leave, as I am casual and cannot accrue leave. I am also not requesting leave, but giving you a heads up on dates that I will be unavailable.”

    They can not grant leave all they like for part and full time workers, but casual means casual… but, in saying all this, as a casual, if you do run this at them, expect to be let go or to have your hours severely restricted upon your return.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 06/09/2022 - 20:44

      Good suggestion, only work 8 hours on 2 days for them so I honestly don't think how hard can they penalise me. But if its someone working 30 hours doing causal job then its a totally different story.

      • dizzle on 06/09/2022 - 21:53

        They can give you 1 three hour shift a week (maybe fortnight), and make them awkward hours.

        I could be wrong, but I don't think it's right that they can fire you with one hours notice (I think technically they can't even drop you to 0 hours, but many still get away with it). In Australia even casuals have some protection. However they can reduce hours to 3 hour shifts, and they can offer you shifts you can't/won't accept and do other things to make you want to quit.

        • Aerith-Waifu on 06/09/2022 - 22:37

          I wont take it then if it comes to that, its not like I am not working at the moment. I just wants to get out house a bit rather than working at home all the time.

  • WreckTangle on 06/09/2022 - 19:47
    -1

    OP is causal. LOL. Does that mean he's the reason this happened?

    • cookie2 on 06/09/2022 - 20:20

      What do you mean?

      • cashless on 06/09/2022 - 22:13
        +4

        “Causal”
        Definition: Acting as a cause of

  • Godric on 06/09/2022 - 20:05
    +1

    ?????????????????????????

  • robbyjones on 06/09/2022 - 20:13
    +8

    Your employer needs to be careful because if they treat their casual employees like full or part time workers they may find themselves having to pay leave entitlements and public holidays. It is not legal to employ someone as a casual and have the expectation of a part or full time employee.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 06/09/2022 - 20:40

      At the moment they gave me set shifts of 8 hours a week, 4 hours on both Saturday and Sunday, never asked me to work any other days yet.

      • robbyjones on 06/09/2022 - 21:00

        I wasn't necessarily talking about number hours but more conditions of employment. A casual is just that, they are free to give you hours or not, depending on the needs of the business, you are free to be available to work or not, depending on your schedule.
        If they chose to terminate your employment based on not being available for those 12 days (where you have given plenty of notice and well before they changed the conditions of availability) and they replaced you with another casual you could seek restitution for wrongful dismissal.

        • Aerith-Waifu on 06/09/2022 - 22:35

          Ok understood, thanks many

  • freefall101 on 06/09/2022 - 20:14
    +5

    Just tell them you won't be available. They're trying to stop people from travelling because everywhere is so short staffed right now, but they won't fire you because they're so short staffed, lol.

    • [Deactivated] on 20/09/2022 - 09:03

      Just notify them, it is not a negotiation. Tell them and not ask, being nice (by giving extra notice) if they were/are not going to be nice is simply being stupid simp employee opening them up to being taking advantage of.

  • ozhunter on 06/09/2022 - 20:29

    They are trying to get ahead before Christmas where people will more likely want to take time off and likely it will be busier around then.

  • jjjaar on 06/09/2022 - 20:40

    Note that some employment contracts state that if casuals that aren’t given any shifts within a X month period, the employment contract is considered over.

    You need to make sure you not being available during, what I assume is their busy period, won’t be an easy trigger for them to terminate your employment.

    Also noting the “x” is often 3 or 4 months.

    That being said - if this holiday was booked before them telling you of this requirement, then I would absolutely be fighting this.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 06/09/2022 - 20:42

      3 - 4 months is a long time, I am only going away for around 12 days seeing some friends and family, after that I will be back as my other job only allowed me 2 weeks leave as I am a full employee with them. If it comes to no more shifts been offered by my casual job then I guess its not too hard to look for something similar.

      • Soluble on 06/09/2022 - 20:53

        You will be fine. Your 12 days is 2 weekends maximum in the quieter period.

      • jjjaar on 06/09/2022 - 23:25

        I know you’re not planning to take 3-4 months off. I’m suggesting they just may not give you shifts as punishment, until it becomes 3-4 months, as opposed to just telling you to look elsewhere for work.

        Just keep an eye out for how they treat you. If they stop rostering you on at any point, be sure to question why.

  • iamherenow on 06/09/2022 - 20:57
    +3

    I had this as a casual employee. Employer said I needed to work. I said I couldn't because I needed to study for exams. Then they made it clear if I didn't work I would not be offered more work. I said again sorry I need to study for exams. Never heard from them again.

    • kittymtd on 07/09/2022 - 13:32

      I recall Woolworths already being like this with casual students that had exams when I was there from 2008 - 2012, and some people just never came back because of it.

  • avoidfullprice on 07/09/2022 - 07:39
    +5

    No Holiday Leave Will Be Granted from 1st of Oct 2022 to 31st Jan 2022

    Problem solved. You can go to your 2023 Singapore trip

  • afah0447 on 07/09/2022 - 07:53

    That's a pretty bold policy by your employer given the current state of the labour market and how hard employers are finding it to get staff.

    Tell them to get stuffed and find a job somewhere else. You're likely get paid more as well.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 08/09/2022 - 04:55

      I am going to now, spoken to my line manager and he said well we have this black out period if you are going without approval then we might not have you back.

      Guess its time to look for something else now i know what they are like.

  • 2esc on 07/09/2022 - 09:07

    If they cant accomoate you with that much notice then its time to look else where. At least its only 8 hours you would lose not 30 or 40 there are other work options out there.

  • Waltervp on 07/09/2022 - 09:08
    +2

    I worked for a call centre in Tasmania as a casual. Planned a 2 week holiday for my 40th bday and was told to apply for leave! Only 10 days were approved and i told them; I'm casual!!! I'm giving you 3 months notice of my availability, i am going! So i went. Sure enough at some point i got a call asking me where i was as i was late for a rostered shift. I told them i was in Queensland , consider me sick. I came back for work when i got back and all seemed OK.

    When i initially returned to work to check my roster I noticed they had a 6 month FT position advertised, perfect for me. Deadline was that weekend. I put in an application. On Monday the manager called me aside and told me i would've been perfect but they had already given the position to someone
    not thinking they'd get any other applications before the cutoff date.

    The next shift i was due to work i showed up 2 hours early and told them i was giving them the required 1 hour minimum notice as per their casual contract terms. It was such an exploitative work place!

    But, this call centre was competing against Philippine and Indian call centres, and that's what eventually happened, they lost the business. In other countries they can exploit their employees, but not here. We are not competitive for some things, and clearly call centres is one such area.

  • BadAtNames on 08/09/2022 - 03:05
    +1

    Some employers will tell you can't go away but you're a casual do what you like, worst case they fire you, which they could do for no reason anyway. Just keep in mind an employer is more likely to keep someone one who they can bend to their will, I mean someone who "dedicates" themselves to shit conditions and shit pay. I've been on both ends, if I was given enough notice I'd never refuse a casual saying they can't work nor would their future shifts be hurt. But if someone was always flakey I'd naturally give shifts to more reliable staff.

    On the flip side I've been the casual staff member who always put in NAs and saw my long term shifts suffer. I went from basically part-time but without the leave (but extra $) to not giving a (profanity) and putting uni and social first, this led to virtually zero shifts and parting ways with the site I was at. I didn't mind because leaving was part of the plan anyway.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 08/09/2022 - 04:58

      I understand, after spoken to my line manager today from the sound of it, I will be leave a lot quicker than next Jan, as they still said blackout period is a blackout period. Back to seek I guess for a weekend job again. Or I can just do more food delivery which is doing quiet well at the moment.

      • Nice one baby on 08/09/2022 - 17:43
        +3

        You're a casual. Just keep working there until you go on holiday and then find a new job when you return. Don't bother mentioning the holiday again until the day before you leave, otherwise they will replace you before then.

  • [Deactivated] on 20/09/2022 - 08:54

    Remind them that you are on a casual contract, if they require you to work a certain period like a contracted employee, they can re-negotiate you to a permanent contract after you come back from your vacation. Walking off on your own terms is the most powerful thing any employee can do anytime (ofcourse preparation is needed for that).

  • Euphemistic on 22/09/2022 - 15:08

    You are casual. You get the option of negotiating with the employer as to when you work, they don’t completely dictate your roster. If they wanted you to commit to it, it should be permanent part time, with associated leave they can deny you use when it suits them.

    Unfortunately, there is a good chance they’ll make excuses why to stop bringing you back in if they don’t like what you tell them.

    Tell them you’re unavailable. If they kick up a stink, leave and find somewhere else. They’ll lose your experience and need to train someone else but it’s retail, it’s not that hard to find a replacement or a new position.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 25/10/2022 - 23:35

      I left and got a new place, roster is 2 weeks in advance and the new manager asks when would you like to work each fortnight before. Feels better already

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