Do You Have Any Experience with Kinesiology?

• 

  SF3 on 17/09/2022 - 20:51

  +22

  That’s why placebo work.

  Thanks that will be $200 /s

  • SlavOz on 17/09/2022 - 20:56 Comment score below threshold.
    • 

      spackbace on 18/09/2022 - 00:49

      +11

      He also theorised that my health is caused by negative emotions

      Sooo… Maybe don't post so much on here?

• 

  JPossum on 17/09/2022 - 20:53

  +19

  Kind of like zodiac and star signs, generic broad statements that sounds personalised and can be extrapolated to your experience. I recommend to stick with science.

  • 

    SlavOz on 17/09/2022 - 23:51

    -8

    I recommend to stick with science.

    Isn't that the thing that always changes (often overnight or on a whim) ? Seems like a pretty unstable place to invest your health.

    • 

      EightImmortals on 18/09/2022 - 07:52

      But if you follow 'the science' these days it always leads to 'the money'!

    • 

      DingoBilly on 18/09/2022 - 10:06

      +4

      Yes I much prefer clinging to my beliefs from hundreds of years ago.

      Use urine to whiten your teeth, cigarettes to treat asthma, drilling a hole into your skull if you seem a bit emotional/manic.

      Glad we have people like you around to make sure we ask questions and try not to change practices like the above! Why change things if the old stuff sort of works according to some article or random gossip I heard?? That silly science getting in the way.

      • 

        SlavOz on 18/09/2022 - 10:11

        +3

        Science recommended a lot wild and barbaric treatments which we no longer use. In 50 years, you'll probably be sickened by some of the stuff we do today.

        What you need to learn is that science is not infallible. It's also heavily influenced by money - remember the scientists who said fat was bad for your heart so you should load up on sugar, or that cigarettes aren't harmful, or Thalidomide is perfectly safe for pregnant women?

        • 

          DingoBilly on 18/09/2022 - 10:17

          +5

          @SlavOz: Science is not infallible, agreed.

          What you need to learn though is that going the other way and ignoring science because you think it's untrue anecdotally is much worse, and it's also worth noting our scientific practices and ethics have improved quite a fair bit since 50 years ago.

          Again, I'd prefer to be guided by science and do something harmful to myself that is only uncovered later, than do things randomly on hearsay, and that are statistically much more likely to lead to a worse outcome. You seem to pick and choose what science you think is correct, and then be guided by pseudoscience/misinformation when your personal beliefs disagree with science which is absolutely horrendous.

          • 

            SlavOz on 18/09/2022 - 10:52

            -6

            @DingoBilly: How many botched surgeries or deformed babies are caused by alternative doctors? None that I can count. Yet they're commonplace in "science".

            Homeopathy won't kill you mate. It's focused on your natural state and any medicine they provide is just basic vitamins or herbs. At worst, it'll do nothing to help your condition. But what happens if "real" doctors get it wrong? The outcome is much worse.

            You seem to pick and choose what science you think is correct

            So does science itself. How many times have drugs been pulled off the market or certain procedures discontinued even though science concluded they were safe and effective?

            Science second guesses itself all the time (not before subjecting millions of people to potentially harmful procedures). When it comes your personal health, "trusting the science" is just a tired trope. You don't trust anything unconditionally - you ask questions, challenge what you're told, and make careful decisions based on a risk-benefit analysis.

            Nobody has visited more scientific doctors than I have. Western medicine has given me a lot, but there are things it hasn't been able to help me with, and that's where I have found relief from alternative therapies. That's why it's called holistic health - you look into everything at your disposal and use the best of both worlds.

            There's a common saying where I'm from - "a genius and an idiot are smarter than a genius alone".

            • 

              terrys on 18/09/2022 - 18:35

              +1

              @SlavOz: "botched surgeries or deformed babies are caused by alternative doctors"

              "Alternative" doctors posing as surgeons or gynaecologists tend to do little harm before they are charged, in much the same way only a small percentage of traffic fatalities are caused by people driver over 200KPH.

              As a percentage of the deluded fools who swallow the bullshit, a very high one…

            • 

              Ughhh on 18/09/2022 - 19:12

              +2

              @SlavOz: How many botched surgeries or deformed babies are caused by fish? None that I can count, even lower than any alternative 'doctors'.

        • 

          SBOB on 18/09/2022 - 10:18

          +4

          @SlavOz:

          scientists who said fat was bad for your heart so you should load up on sugar

          Would love to see that study that said 'should load up on sugar'….

          Your statements/facts would be more factual if you just stopped half way through them

          • 

            SlavOz on 18/09/2022 - 19:01

            @SBOB: There are 3 primary macro-nutrients: fat, protein, and carbohydrates (ie sugar). When the divine Scientists concluded fat was harmful, everybody naturally switched to the next most widely available and convenient source of energy - carbs.

            This is where the "low fat" trend started. People began cutting fat out of their diets and replacing it with more carbs. Natural oils and butter were replaced with trans fats like margarine. Many commercial products like donuts or cakes were marketed as healthy alternatives because they contained minimal fat.

            If science was so responsible, they would've seen what was happening and corrected it with better advice. But they didnt. They remained silent, which means they either didn't know any better or knowingly allowed people to misinterpret the facts for decades.

            If these people want to be trusted as unconditionally as they've been demanding over the last 2 years, then they should start taking personal responsibility for their advice instead of just playing coy when they turn out to be wrong.

            • 

              SBOB on 18/09/2022 - 19:44

              +2

              @SlavOz: Or ..hear me out….

              scientists who said fat was bad for your heart so you should load up on sugar

              Just back up your 'fact' or admit you often make stuff up in trying to make a point?

              donuts or cakes were marketed as healthy alternatives

              Want to back that 'fact' up? Find me one packet of donuts advertised as a healthy alternative.

              Seriously, perhaps stop making up 'facts' and your point of discussion/argument would be more reality and less make believe

              If these people want to be trusted as unconditionally as they've been demanding over the last 2 years,

              Hilarious you just group all 'scientists' into the same pool.. nutritional scientists sit in the office next to the immunologists, and all talk about how they'll not change their ideas over the lunch table

• 

  AustriaBargain on 17/09/2022 - 20:56

  +2

  Seems like a pretty useful thing for a health provider to specialise in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinesiology

  Seems a bit of a stretch that someone you saw knew unprompted that your stress was specifically caused by separation in childhood. But I'd bet a kinesiologist could spot a lot of conditions that the average medical doctor wouldn't, as long as those conditions measurably affect your movement.

  • 

    SlavOz on 17/09/2022 - 21:03

    -1

    Seems a bit of a stretch that someone you saw knew unprompted that your stress was specifically caused by separation in childhood.

    Yet they did. And it was confirmed by a separate practitioner who came to the same conclusion.

    Of course coincidences and lucky guesses happen but I did actually suffer a separation experience at the age they specified.

    Then again, any good medical practitioner or clinician should be able to tell what's wrong with someone just by looking at them.

    • 

      GrueHunter on 17/09/2022 - 21:47

      +14

      Yet they did.

      Yet you didn't see all of the other people whose experience went like this:

      "Was there a significant event when you were…a young adult? No? A teenager? No? Younger? No? Anything not great when you were a child? No? Not ringing a bell? That's great, I'm glad, that helps me narrow down my pseudoscientific options."

      More likely is that you didn't realise that your own experience was a classic cold reading, because the first rule of cold reading is not to let on that you're cold reading. (That, and we've read a lot of your posts, and I don't think you'd find many of us who'd say "SlavOz is definitely known for his critical reasoning", yeah?)

      (Please tell us you didn't visit the same therapist your friend uses, and that if you did, it hasn't once occurred to you once they said "Yeah, so my friend SlavOz is coming in, his mum drove him to the tip when he was five, left him there and moved interstate so he could really use your magical help.")

      • 

        SlavOz on 17/09/2022 - 22:06

        -7

        And you've never seen the people who's experience went like this:

        Go to the doctor, my tummy hurts, ok let's try to fix that with medicine, oh it didn't work, how about this pill instead, hmm still no luck? OK lets start again and hope it works this time. Still nothing? Let's try surgery. Oh look at that the patient died because we couldn't help them…

        You honestly think every single person who sees a "real" doctor walks away completely satisfied and healed? Come on mate. The medical world is rife with corruption, malpractice, financial interests, and massive scandals leading to people dying.

        Who do you think is collectively richer - all the doctors or all the kinesiologists?

        Yet you're accusing the kinesiologists of sucking money out of people…

        • 

          GrueHunter on 18/09/2022 - 14:36

          +3

          @SlavOz:

          You honestly think every single person who sees a "real" doctor walks away completely satisfied and healed?

          No, and I didn't say that.

          But guess what? "Some doctors are less than great" doesn't mean you can say "…and therefore superstitious magic is real".

          Yet you're accusing the kinesiologists of sucking money out of people…

          Yes. I'm most definitely saying that.

• 

  whatwasherproblem on 17/09/2022 - 21:02

  +10

  He was able to read my state of mind and know what is ailing me before I even explained it.

  He also theorised that my health is caused by negative emotions due to an experience of loss/separation when I was X years old.

  I went to another practitioner and after examining me, they came to the exact same conclusion (even got the exact age right).

  That's all very interesting, but allow me to posit a different explanation.
  1. Kinesiologists don't typically see clients that have enjoyable, problem-free lives, so their chances of 'guessing' at something being whack about you (you know, hence why you went to see them in the first place) is a better than 50/50 chance.
  2. Pretty much everyone has a loss story from their childhood.
  3. The year could've been a lucky guess (consider what would've happened if he'd guessed wrong: he could've simply waffled with some "ah, I must've got confused by some weird negative energy going on that blocked my vibes, give me a sec… X+1? …X+2?").
  4. Or it might not have even been a 'lucky guess' at all. Consider: does the guy know anyone that you know? Could he have found out information about you through non-supernatural channels?
  5. Also factor in survivor bias: you're only praising him because he got it right. If he'd been way off to the point where you spat in his face and left, vowing to never bother with pseudoscience again, he'd just shrug and waste no time moving to the next sucker. To the extent that you'd relay your story about "crooked kinesiologists" later, nobody would give it a second thought.
  6. The second practitioner you saw didn't have to guess, because they're secretly bffs with the first guy and they both have a financial interest in vouching for each other's grifts.

  "Too many assumptions?" Perhaps, but what are the assumptions on your end? That magic is real and auras are a thing?

  I'm not calling myself an advocate or believer just yet but I am making some good progress on understanding how physical health can be related to one's state of mind.

  Of course physical health is related to your mind (feeling like crap -> thinking depressing thoughts, who knew?). You don't need voodoo hokum to demonstrate that though, you can just use the repeatable and falsifiable scientific method instead.

  • 

    SlavOz on 17/09/2022 - 21:12

    -7

    Well I mean, you could say all those things about regular doctors too. Especially the part about working together and having a shared financial interest.

    If you're going to see a GP, you're obviously sick so they should be able to take a random guess and get it right?

    Perhaps, but what are the assumptions on your end? That magic is real and auras are a thing?

    It's not magic. Some people are just very good at reading others. Body language, outward appearance etc.

    Ideally, any good "real" doctor should be able to take a general look at you and conclude what is wrong (this has actually happened to me before). This comes from decades of experience working with patients who tend to share attributes or symptoms.

    Alas, most doctors that people see are not capable of this because they don't pay attention and spend more time looking down at their prescription pad.

    Alternative doctors work very hard at understanding and reading people, and that's not a bad thing at all. It can definitely help in uncovering the source of someone's problems. Not everything has to be pills, surgeries, and numbers on a lab test. Doctors tend to ignore the human side of patients.

    • 

      JPossum on 17/09/2022 - 21:18

      +4

      I don’t doubt that alternative providers/practitioners (they are not doctors, please) work hard and “read people”, but perhaps what you need is a therapist / counsellor for your ailments?

      Addit - doctors spend a long long time training to be able to “guess” your diagnosis, order the appropriate investigations and provide an evidence-based management plan.

      • 

        SlavOz on 17/09/2022 - 21:27

        -2

        but perhaps what you need is a therapist / counsellor for your ailments?

        I agree. And that is exactly what my kinesiologist said. They're not giving me the "we are the only people who can fix you" trap. Not every "alternative" practitioner does this. I've been too many holistic doctors who have shared an equal appreciation for Western medicine (some of them even are qualified doctors themselves).

        But the only way I was led to finding out that I may need a therapist was because of kinesiology. Had I gone to my GP, they would've referred me to a gastrointerologist who specialises in my physical symptoms. But I have been to the end of the earth and back working with these doctors (and they have helped a lot). Yet none of them ever suggested that my mental health might be playing a part, so they never suggested seeing a therapist.

        That is the weakness of Western medicine that alternative doctors can fill in. They take a more holistic approach.

        • 

          whatwasherproblem on 17/09/2022 - 21:32

          +2

          @SlavOz:

          But the only way I was led to finding out that I may need a therapist was because of kinesiology.

          inb4 @pegaxs or @spackbace or one of the other unfunny clowns that follow you around this forum replies with "I could've told you that for free! Huehuehue". You gotta stop setting them up, my man.

          • 

            spackbace on 18/09/2022 - 00:53

            +5

            @whatwasherproblem: The first step is acknowledging you have an issue… It's taken a while but we've finally gotten there with lil Slavvy

        • 

          cookie2 on 18/09/2022 - 22:00

          @SlavOz: But have you cancelled out and investigated the possibility of gastrointestinal issues too? May as well cross it off while you're at it. Just because you have one 'issue', doesn't mean there's not another one. When I was a teenager I used to get the most horrible pains and doctors believed stress and anxiety related…fast forward 5-10 years and it turned out I had a pretty serious disease that was probably present long before discovered. Yes it probably was stress that caused my pains back then but it also probably wasn't the Only thing causing it.

    • 

      whatwasherproblem on 17/09/2022 - 21:27

      +2

      Well I mean, you could say all those things about regular doctors too. Especially the part about working together and having a shared financial interest.

      Absolutely. At least, it should work that way. The fact that in practice my doctors usually have to faff about trying (and often failing) to pass records between each other is a failure of the system. But the point is they don't try to hide the fact that they're privy to information like that and make it seem like impressive deduction instead. ("I'm picking up some vibes, they're saying… that you had a knee reconstruction in 2004! Woooooooooo!")

      Some people are just very good at reading others. Body language, outward appearance etc.

      It's a requirement of the job for all manner of con artists, yes.

      Not everything has to be pills, surgeries, and numbers on a lab test.

      I will take exception to that third one. If you want to quantitatively prove anything then you need lab tests. The alternative is literally just guessing.

      • 

        SlavOz on 17/09/2022 - 21:45

        -1

        But the point is they don't try to hide the fact that they're privy to information like that and make it seem like impressive deduction instead.

        Like I said, it is unfair to paint all alternative practitioners with that brush. They don't all do that. In fact I would say it's a minority. Most of them will happily reveal how they came to their diagnosis, and they almost never claim to have magic powers.

        It's a requirement of the job for all manner of con artists

        And teachers, therapists, technicians…and the millions of other jobs that work directly with people.

        If you want to quantitatively prove anything then you need lab tests. The alternative is literally just guessing.

        But not everything can be picked up on lab tests. Most people are lucky enough to have their conditions diagnosed easily by a blood test or X ray but there are cracks in the system which people fall through. Many people (myself included) suffer chronic pain and illness that simply defy medical logic (these words literally spoken by my doctor verbatim), and often at times they are just guessing too.

        You act like doctors never get anything wrong or cause grave harm in their guesses. They do. It happens all the time. It just doesn't get sensationalised and scrutinised as much.

        • 

          whatwasherproblem on 17/09/2022 - 22:14

          +3

          @SlavOz:

          Most of them will happily reveal how they came to their diagnosis, and they almost never claim to have magic powers.

          By "magic powers" I'm also including the various brands of 'Sherlock Holmes' nonsense. The stuff like "Well I thought you might have a potassium deficiency because you fiddled with your collar as you sat down and you instinctively reclined into a half-lotus position on the chair to subconsciously improve blood flow to your lower extremities". It's the same performative theatre designed to impress and amaze, not unlike that which a magician uses for entertainment.

          And teachers, therapists, technicians…and the millions of other jobs that work directly with people.

          Not in the same way, though. Teachers are allowed to be grouchy old bats that in a reasonable society shouldn't be allowed anywhere near kids, for instance. Your technician can be a misanthropic stooge who fumbles human interactions and can't hold a conversation to save his/her life, and they'll still get a pass if they're good at what they do.

          This is absolutely not true for con artists. If a con artist can't read people or have situational awareness, then they're done. They won't be conning anybody.

          Many people (myself included) suffer chronic pain and illness that simply defy medical logic (these words literally spoken by my doctor verbatim), and often at times they are just guessing too.

          Sure, but what does "defying medical logic" mean? Keep in mind that "medical logic" is essentially: 1) we noticed a thing after trying a new treatment, 2) we set up a controlled and (ideally) replicable experiment to see if we could confirm the treatment effect and rule out false positives, and 3) we had trained statisticians interpret the findings. If something defies medical logic because it doesn't pass each of those (rigorous and scientific, at least in ideal) steps, then how can it be considered a treatment?

          People's main issue with 'alternative doctors' is that they're happy to stop at step 1) in that process and call it mission accomplished. The alternative practitioners don't care about false positives, and they don't care specifically because they don't get scrutinised. (Nobody is surprised when a placebo doesn't work, after all.)

          • 

            SlavOz on 17/09/2022 - 22:27

            -1

            @whatwasherproblem:

            By "magic powers" I'm also including the various brands of 'Sherlock Holmes' nonsense.

            Again, a massive generalisation and typecast. It doesn't sound like you've ever visited an alternative doctor, which is perfectly understandable, but why give in to sensationalised media tropes if you've never tried it for yourself? It pays to have an open mind.

            There's so much immoral and exploitative bullshit that goes on in Western medicine too, would it be fair to say that all doctors are like that? No.

            Sure, but what does "defying medical logic" mean?

            It means that not everyone's individual health falls within the defined parameters of Western medicine. There are many things doctors don't know how to fix yet, and they often spend a lifetime taking wild guesses or conducting hopeful experiments that don't work out.

            Not everyone reacts the same to surgery or medication. It works for most people, but not everyone is that lucky. Some people simply don't respond to the prescribed treatments of medical science and are faced with 2 choices - accept it and live in misery for the rest of their lives, or see an alternative practitioner and hope that they can offer something, anything, even if it's the tiny glimmer of hope that they spot something that all the doctors missed.

            One of those options is better than the other.

• 

  elgrande on 17/09/2022 - 21:28

  +10

  He also theorised that my health is caused by negative emotions

  Can we expect to see some more positive posts? ..

  • 

    sam-1966 on 18/09/2022 - 16:57

    Do it mean his Kinesiologist is a member of OzBargain and has read his previous posts?

• 

  djones145 on 17/09/2022 - 21:48

  i use it and its fully awesome br0

  go for it, place your life savings into it
  best thing ever
  like totally radical dude

  fully sick

  use more of these fully sick words will cleanse and improve the mind

  works too br0
  try it
  cheaper too homie

• 

  SBOB on 17/09/2022 - 22:53

  +6

  able to read my state of mind and know what is ailing me before I even explained it.

  theorised that my health is caused by negative emotions due to an experience of loss/separation when I was X years old

  Whatever makes you feel happy and gives you a more pleasant outlook on life. I look forward to the marked change in your outlook on the world.

  Though this is not science of medicine. Reading minds is up there with tarot card readers.

  Kinesiology is often talked about as 'working' by those easily manipulated or persuaded, into 'spiritual healing' etc.

  Reading minds is in the realm of Applied kinesiology, but that's fake quackery on the next level.

  Though seems so far this thread is just a way for you to talk about how bad regular doctors and nurses are…

• 

  freefall101 on 18/09/2022 - 00:02

  +1

  The problem is you can improve your state of mine with a $5 app as well, it's not actually that hard to figure out that trauma = bad for state of mind. Pick the meditation/mindfulness session for what is getting to you right now, you'll feel better and healthier.

  I'm not calling myself an advocate or believer just yet but I am making some good progress on understanding how physical health can be related to one's state of mind.

  This has (profanity) all to do with kinesiology and everything to do with stress and mental health, which medicine has long known relates. I don't know how why you think this goes against science (or what religion has to do with it).

  A basic mall massage will make you feel wonderful, but it won't solve long term posture issues. It's important to properly address the route cause. Even a mediocre psychic can pick things about a person but that doesn't mean they're treating them or doing some long term good.

• 

  spackbace on 18/09/2022 - 00:55

  +7

  I'm not calling myself an advocate or believer

  Then proceeds to counter anyone who says anything against

  Yeah well done

  • 

    SlavOz on 18/09/2022 - 00:58

    -2

    Having an open mind does not make me a champion of a cause.

    • 

      spackbace on 18/09/2022 - 01:02

      +15

      Since when is your mind ever "open"? 😂 It's so closed up I'm surprised it ever sees daylight!

• 

  bazingaa on 18/09/2022 - 01:59

  kinesiology

  what is that? first time saw this word

• 

  screensaver on 18/09/2022 - 06:37

  I have just booked for a Reiki revision class which fortunately is not expensive. I have also booked a Reiki treatment for tomorrow. I will look out for kinesiology too Have decided to get some treatments.for awhile

• 

  ForkSnorter on 18/09/2022 - 07:42

  +3

  These things can seem personalised to the gullible because the practitioners describe experiences that are extremely common.

  Practitioner: “I’m getting the feeling that had some kind of traumatic experience when you were young, is that correct?”

  95% of patients: “Yes, yes! Wow, how did you know that?”

  Practitioner: “I think it was when you were about 10-13 years old, is that right?”

  Patient: “Yes, 9 years old. Wow, how did you know that?”

  Practitioner: “Just the tricks of the trade my friend.”

  • 

    SlavOz on 18/09/2022 - 10:05

    -1

    In my case, the "traumatic" experience at X age was not during childhood. It was actually in my early 20s which they predicted.

    Not like traditional medicine has a boastful track record when it comes to honesty, so not sure where all this negativity from people comes from.

    • 

      GrueHunter on 18/09/2022 - 14:44

      Here's how traditional medicine (aka "medicine") finds out if you had a traumatic experience:

      "Have you ever had a traumatic experience? I mean, I could try to predict, which is just a dumber way of saying "guess", but how about I just ask?"

      mindblown.gif

      • 

        SlavOz on 18/09/2022 - 15:10

        -1

        Well doesn't sound like you have much experience with traditional doctors because psychologists never ask you if you've had childhood trauma. If people could answer that question, they wouldn't need a therapist. The doctor's job is to uncover traumatic experiences that are often hidden in one's sub conscious.

        Even something as trivial as losing sight of your parents for a few minutes can go on to create separation anxiety or paranoia in people, yet they often don't realise it.

• 

  jacross on 18/09/2022 - 07:50

  +3

  Are you sure it was a Kinesiologist that you saw? Kinesiology isn't alternative medicine and a kinesiologist wouldn't be a psychic and they'd care more about how you move than how you mood.

  Edit: Oh it's a SlavOz post. HAHA goddamn it.

  • 

    SBOB on 18/09/2022 - 08:08

    Kinesiology isn't alternative medicine and a kinesiologist wouldn't be a psychic and they'd care more about how you move than how you mood.

    Yep, based on the description it sounds less like a science based kinesiologist, and more like an "Applied kinesiologist". They are very different things.

    • 

      jacross on 20/09/2022 - 14:45

      Oh god i had no idea there was such a thing. I was only aware of kinesiologists because of my exposure to sports science.

      Reading up on applied kinesiology…so depressing.

• 

  EightImmortals on 18/09/2022 - 08:01

  If it works, do it.

• 

  7ekn00 on 18/09/2022 - 08:54

  Go on a dopamine sabbatical, far cheaper and far more effective ;)

• 

  Bystander on 18/09/2022 - 09:21

  +1

  I went to a Kinesiologist many years ago and was surprised at the comments they made about my state. I hadn't made any discussion about the topic but they were accurate in their assessment. Coincidentally I had the exact same assessment made by a Chinese Medicine doctor a few years later in another country.

  I'm not saying that Kinesiology is a genuine therapy but it did seem to make me feel better. Placebo? Maybe. But if it works who's to say it's wrong?

• 

  afoveht on 18/09/2022 - 11:03

  +1

  I'm personally against most of these things as they go against both science and religion.

  I.e. is against another religion because it goes against his religion.

  Also tries to legitimise his own religion by pinning it alongside science and not giving it the label of the specific brand he follows.

  • 

    SlavOz on 18/09/2022 - 11:23

    -1

    Also tries to legitimise his own religion by pinning it alongside science

    Yes, religion is just as important to me as science. No different to people who claim to believe in science but spout gender fluidity nonsense that they believe is a pathway for morality.

    • 

      afoveht on 18/09/2022 - 11:39

      Dude, gender is real but a made up concept, much like religion, and the fact you link it with your own version of morality is just another indicator that for you it's just an aspect of your own religion.

      • 

        SlavOz on 18/09/2022 - 11:48

        Dude, gender is real but a made up concept

        Yes…

• 

  bobbified on 18/09/2022 - 11:54

  but I'm personally against most of these things as they go against both science and religion.

  This, coming from you? lol

• 

  Eeples on 18/09/2022 - 12:08

  At Age X? …. 10?

  Perhaps the quaktitioner was reading one of your previous lifetime’s childhoods in Italy.

  Far-fetched? You started it.

  • 

    bobbified on 18/09/2022 - 12:15

    Perhaps the quaktitioner was reading one of your previous lifetime’s childhoods in Italy.

    I think he probably read OP's previous posts on OzB!

• 

  HelpMeiCantSee on 18/09/2022 - 12:40

  +1

  Lots of slavoz hate in these comments. I’m usually all for it, but dude I applaud you for approaching it with an open mind. Most of the nasty comments are uncalled for and are attacking you on your history of being vocally opinionated rather than the merits of your post.

  There are certainly a large number of frauds in this area, however stuff like people from different states giving you the exact same story, unprompted and with no possible connection between the two surely has to be more than coincidence. But of a spiel coming, but in my mind worth a read :)

  I too was always dead set against all the mumbo jumbo, but I’ve had quite a few totally unconnected experiences that have me… hopeful I guess.

  I’ll get roasted for this, but I’ve had a few “readings” done. One stands out as plausible. Totally unknown before approaching them, I gave fake details prior to the appointment- they even assumed I was a girl due to the name I gave (kelly- a neutral name).
  Upon meeting them, it was “coincidental fact” after fact- you have something extremely precious with a strong energy in your left front pocket (my late wife’s wedding ring and locket).
  The “presence” kept addressing me by a strange sounding name beginning with a J or a Y. (My name is spelt with a J but has a Y sound).
  That my “soul mate” has left me- generic enough but still a bit more than casual coincidence I reckon.
  That I witnessed and went through an unimaginable trauma almost 8 months ago (it had been 7 months and 22 days since my wife died. Watching her writhe and waste away will haunt me till the day I die).
  Then they said her name- just in a way like “Xyz feels she had the best care and most dignified death that she possibly could”. I 100% did not let her name slip, that blew me the f away.
  Knew somehow I had 2 toddlers- I didn’t mention kids.
  Knew somehow that interstate family was with her in her final moments, especially her brother. (Possibly generic, but she had a few details like the number of people and that she was glad everyone decided to stay that night- the only night everyone did stay the night).
  Knew it was a nasty cancer that almost took her when our son was born, but she managed to fight it for a few years (3 to be exact) against the odds and predictions that it would have/should have been only months.

  A whole bunch more. Individually not too remarkable, but together it’s just nuts. I’m 37. Not as though there are too many widowers my age worthwhile throwing that into a cold reading mix.

  Moral of the story is we just don’t know for absolute certain what is out there. We can’t. As long as it doesn’t displace proven science and put us at risk, what harm is there in exploring it? Even if it’s placebo, if it works, it works- who cares why! I reckon it takes a certain confidence and security in yourself to be able to approach this sort of stuff with a genuinely open mind.

  Naturopathy is one area of this stuff I simply cannot fathom. I genuinely believe thy whole circus is purely a (big) money spinning fraud.

  • 

    GrueHunter on 18/09/2022 - 14:50

    +1

    Which do you reckon is more likely:

    • There's somebody out there with genuine psychic powers, and they use this astonishing gift to…charge you by the hour to guess what you have in your pocket

    • You've had a life affected by trauma, had at least a willingness to believe that this quackery is real (because you went, multiple times), and have the same faulty recollection of how those discussions went that everybody does, because they're professionals who have years and years of experience exploiting the Forer effect?

    No, must be the first one.

    • 

      SlavOz on 18/09/2022 - 15:05

      There's somebody out there with genuine psychic powers

      Is this what you think when you see someone win at poker because they're soo good at reading other people, or when a psychologist can tell what happened in your childhood after only a few minutes of talking?

      I don't see why it's so hard to believe that some people are just very good at connecting dots and noticing fine details that doctors cannot.

      • 

        HelpMeiCantSee on 19/09/2022 - 09:45

        Agreed, they’re two very different scenarios.

    • 

      HelpMeiCantSee on 19/09/2022 - 09:43

      Given the session was recorded, then I fail to see how the reader exploited my reaction.

      I’m not a hardcore believer by any means, but I’m more open to considering it.

      Of course I want something to be real because of what I’ve been through, I’m not completely naive, I’m actually a hardcore science backer and firmly attached to evidence based science. But my experience with one in particular has removed a big chunk of absolute conviction that it’s quackery.

      I also believe that if a million monkeys were on a typewriter, one would spit out Shakespeare- it’s a numbers game.

  • 

    cookie2 on 18/09/2022 - 23:23

    +1

    You're right. We don't really know and if no harm then why not. I'm sorry for your wifes passing and the traumatic experience of the cancer. It takes so much from us but it's your strength together that got through those extra almost 3 years.

    • 

      HelpMeiCantSee on 19/09/2022 - 09:46

      Thanks

• 

  screensaver on 18/09/2022 - 13:00

  yes there are some unexplained things. Many years ago I had to go to Court and it was my number one concern of the day. The palm reader said Youll be saved by the bell. I went to court and the judge name was Virginia Bell, and yes, I was saved

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  acoma on 19/09/2022 - 09:11

  Let's ignore the two practitioners and their diagnosis. What help did they provide you to feel better? Are you better? Will you be better in 4 months? That is all that counts.

  • 

    SF3 on 20/09/2022 - 09:35

    They asked OP to post in OzB for treatment, so they can have repeat business?

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  Duckie2hh on 21/09/2022 - 09:15

  Just ignore OP. He is back from being banned and now wants to spout/preach his anti-vax theories.

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  screensaver on 21/09/2022 - 16:01

  I had my Reiki and was a little underwhelned, as I was expecting to feel more. However today my hands are feeling much better. I have contact dermatitis which was sore and was slow to heal.