Hello
Looking to upgrade our very old rusty car to a spanking new EV car.
We have solar panels and can charge the EV car during the day.
The Tesla Y are around $75,000. The interior is very basic and they said no negotiation on the price.
Is there a strategy to get better value?
Model 3 is a bit too small, we prefer SUV over sedan.
Also saw the Mercedes EV SUV which is more luxurious but at a cost of $95,000! Can't afford that much.
Are there better options for around $80K?
Thank you
Maybe wait to 2023?
Nope
For one thing, Tesla have never been negotiable, they've always had a "click and collect" type of business
Seems like Tesla Y and Atto isn't available until 2023 anyways…
Are there better options for around $80K?
Wouldn't you just go on a cars site and apply your filters as appropriate, to align with your own version of "better"?
Seeking recommendations…
Ok. Perhaps you could define what "better" means to you, as others may have other criteria that they assess by.
this guy is asking if there's a magic $75k ev suv he hasnt heard of
there's not much out there.
i discount the ionic, kia ev6 whatever polestars for various reasons
and the nissan ariya is nowhere to be found
there's no magic out there.. the reason the Model Y is this price is becuase Elon cant make enough for demand
so pay your money and wait,,, or go drive your current shitbox
@tonyjzx: Byd is $45K. Didn’t hear about them until now.
If I didn't post, I wouldn't have found out about it.
@congo: thats on you
one guy here actually bought one and did a full rundown on it… but as typical, you missed it… and continue to miss it
@tonyjzx: Yes this thread mentioned another post @pegaxs, which I have been reading up on.
So it has helped a lot!!
Not anyone is tech savvy… and I don't often read the forum postings.
There's plenty of posts regarding this on here including @pegaxs's review of owning the BYD Atto 3 which i'd recommend going through
But in short
BYD Atto 3
Decent interior and equipment - colours are interesting
around 400k's real world range
$47,000 - rebates
Use whats left to put children through university.
Thanks, I am learning towards BYD.
They are fairly new? The only concerns are not sure how "safe" they are? and if they would have any long term issues.
EuroNCAP rating will be out next month about 12 Oct. I am not sure about when the ANCAP rating will be released…
ANCAP without passenger airbags ;)
47k looks great upfront compared to a Tesla 69k driveaway.
But what are there estimated values in 8 years.
If the BYD depreciates like a stone, and the Tesla retains its value, the savings may not be so clear in total cost of ownership.
Then there is also that bizarre service cost schedule.
Given the movement in EV tech predicted by 2030, it's likely that neither will hold a huge value
I'd expect both to drop at a similar percentage, but all depends how the body/battery will go after that time
Good point.
Can't go wrong with Tesla Model Y. There's thousands of reasons why it's a best-seller.
Thousands?
Can you list more than 50?
Having driven many Teslas, the usability of the Tesla interior is pretty bad.
You can't adjust anything while driving without looking at the screen and flicking through menus, or trying to use the voice command.
In a normal car you can position the seats, turn on seat heating, change the AC temp, adjust the wiper speed, etc without taking your eyes off the road.
If it weren't for this I'd buy a Tesla, but now I'm waiting for more EV options.
I would have to strongly disagree. I find M3 interior much more useful than the "conventional car". And just for the record it is not my car, but my partner's, so I don't get to drive it often. I used to be a Tesla hater until the first test drive. I would say there is some getting used to, but there is not much to the learning journey.
The only thing I have to ever adjust is selecting my driving profile, if we are both getting in with our phones and it doesn't know who is driving.
Climate is automatic - I never have to fiddle with the temperature. If it is cold, the heated seats and steering is all automatic. The most important controls are in the stalks. Wipers are automatic and pretty good. Voice control is pretty good too, not that I use it much.
I find in the other cars, I frequently have to adjust things - Polo with automatic everything is pretty crap at it all (my son's learning car). Other "classic" manufacturers that I can compare to and had in the past - BMW, Jaguar, Toyota are not all that good.
Yeah and mostly the reason is that people fell for the Elon marketing crap.
Interior build quality issues, exterior build quality issues, and the fact that you can't do anything without using a touchscreen is hilarious.
Telsa has the best technology and battery
BYD supplies Tesla with their batteries…
joke's on you, mokr typed 'Telsa'
That correct. Which implies BYD blade batteries are good too.
BYD supplies Tesla with their batteries…
No Tesla's with BYD batteries are on the road yet, who knows if they're good or not.
Main reason it’s a ‘best seller’ is that there is very little competition and it seems to have reasonable supply at this point.
Other EVs (eg Kia EV6, Hyundai Ionic 5) cant get supply. Then when they do get an allocation they sell out in minutes.
Tesla might be outselling others by a fair margin in Aus, but what if the rest of the world where there are dozens of models available? Ive seen a YouTube video of Britain’s top 30 EVs. Not the only 30 indicating there are lots and lots to choose from. Our backward ‘EVs will ruin the weekend’ government has left us a long way behind
"Ruin the weekend' was not from our current government but from the previous Morrison government
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOBZOsVlUWs
you'll find that Labor isnt much better in this regard…
The inaction from the previous government has cost us years. This government has yet to prove itself.
Good luck getting anything in that price range before the end of the year.
About your only choices for “SUV” in that price range are Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro, Volvo XC40, Mazda MX30, MG ZSEV, BYD Atto 3.
If you want an EV sooner, you may have to end up buying a lightly used one, as just about every other EV is on a wait list.
Genuine question, I am looking into getting an EV as well, does anyone know what happens after the warranty period, say 8 to 10 years when these EV battery dies? Do you replace the dead battery cells or the entire battery module?
Quoting pegaxs treating these EVs like "smart phones on wheels", it is not like I can go to the mall kiosk and ask the mobile repair guy to replace the battery.
You really should only have to change out the cells that are bad (Unless it's a Tesla and they just used a shit load of glue to stop you from servicing their batteries.)
A lot of time with bigger battery applications like cars, it will only be a bad cell or a bad block of cells, it's seldom the whole battery. And with technology getting better, batteries are lasting longer and longer with better cell technology, smarter chargers and active cooling.
The other thing to remember is how you treat the battery. If you drive flatout all week and constantly go from 100% down to <10% and then smack the DC fast charger up its guts every other day, it's going to last a lot shorter than a car that is trickle charged at the end of each day from 60% to 90%.
And when I said "treat it as a smart phone…" what I was referring to was sticking it on the trickle charger each day or second day. Most people dont run their phone down to dead flat before charging it, they usually chuck it on each night before bed so it's 100% for the next day. An EV is no different. It doesn't need to be empty before you recharge it.
Just throwing in your comment in there for fun, no disrespect intended, I am a fan. Heh.
The reason I brought this up, my neighbour just bought a new ICE car, I think it was a Hyundai, I asked him why he didn't get an EV, he said he was told by Hyundai the battery replacement for the EV version was $20k or 30k, I can't remember the exact number, but pretty much his point was that if the battery died and the car was out of warranty, the car will be virtually worthless, that's why he didn't get an EV.
How much is a 10yo ICE vehicle worth? You throw them away if the engine blows up. EVs batteries arent all magically going to fail after 10years, and even if their capacity is diminished by then, it’s likely there will be a market in buying duds for motor and inverter parts for ICE conversions and using the battery packs for home storage.
@Euphemistic: Point well taken about 10yo ICE cars. That being said, touch wood, I have not had an engine blow up so far. The only experience I had selling an ICE car older than 10 years, was a Mazda that was around 14 years old. I think I sold it for about $2000 at the time.
LOL Whats the value on a 10yo ICE car? and how much is a engine or gearbox rebuild if needed, or even a total new 'engine'?
Just like a EV, people won't drop $10k+ fixing a 10yo car, they'll scrap it. The difference is that an EV battery even 'dead' is worth a bucket load as scrap compared to a ICE car. Infact a EV in general is worth more as scrap than a ICE.
So you either drop $75k on a ICE that last 10-15 years, or drop $75k on a EV that lasts 10-15 years but is worth way more as scrap.
EV typically have long warranty period on batteries. (Circa 8 years).
The warranty period on EV is longer than major compenents of internal combusion engine (ICE) vehicles. (Motor & gearbox).
The batteries will typically not fail suddenly but may reduce in capacity over their lifetime (Think about your smart phone battery). The level of degration depends on how the battery is treated over its life. (Fast charging, battery chemistry type). Typically EV warranty is 80% battery capacity at around 8 years.
The battery pack is made up of lots of individual cells. If the pack were to fail, you would pull it out and replace the failed cell. Not the whole battery pack.
(Think of replacing bearings in a gear box, you dont replace the whole gearbox itself).
Hmm.. makes sense. I guess what you are also saying is that if a cell went bad, the whole battery pack will not stop working, it will just have reduced capacity, is that right?
IMHO, 8 years is not a long time for car ownership though. I still think of my car as "quite new", but after I think about it, I have had it for 4 years! Maybe I am just the type who don't think too much about the car I drive.
I guess I will ask about the battery serviceability when I actually settle on an EV that I like. Thanks.
If cell goes bad by going open circuit the battery controller could compensate by providing less power to that bank of batteries. If it was a bank of 10 cells, the controller could compensate by providing 90% power to the remaining 9 cells. If a cell goes bad by going short circuit, the battery controller would have to stop using all the cells in that bank of cells so you lose much more power in this scenario.
An EV battery pack isn't just a large number of cells joined together. It also needs coolant lines (typically water cooled), power controllers for each bank and an array of voltage and thermal sensors. They also need to be heavily armoured because they catch fire if pierced. All these things add to the cost. Even if the cost of the cells decreases greatly in the next 10 years, the cost of a finished battery pack might not decrease by that much.
what about PHEV?
Also IONIQ Electric is under 60k, not sure how good it is.
Tesla interiors are simple. I came from a BMW and now drive a Model Y. I find the interior pleasing and a nice place to be. BYD Atto is pretty good for the price. Not much love for Tesla on this forum. I think you might be better off asking in Whirlpool. Plenty of Youtube videos too about EVs in Australia.
A good review by TopGear here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Nfgag_3cw
Good Whirlpool thread.
Thank you for the links.
Tesla interiors are simple,
Agreed, they went the minimalist route. So people see the lack of 800 buttons and knobs and think it must be missing things.
Others of us think it’s a pain in the butt to ferret around on a touchscreen menu system when an old fashioned button is always there ready to go.
Honestly I have a hundred 'buttons' in my car and I don't even use them today! Climate is set and forget, stereo controls are on the steering wheel same as the Tesla, the car has auto head lights and wipers. What buttons are people needing to press all the time?
I am old fashioned.
Don't care about the buttons, but for a $75K car, I was expecting more leather and less plastic.
LOL Most cars are plastic inside…..and well that leather you see in most cars is 'vegan' leather, which is a fancy name for vinyl. aka plastic.
Personally I would rather cloth seats than the stuff most car makers use today for 'leather'.
Hyundai Ioniq 5. Get onto the mailing list now.
Are they better than BYD Atto 3 ? How much more are they?
Everything is better than the Atto 3.
Having driven the MG ZSEV and the Atto 3, I beg to differ. :D
said no negotiation on the price
LOL it isn't 2019 anymore! No negotiation on the price is standard these days.
The Tesla Y are around $75,000. The interior is very basic and they said no negotiation on the price.
I don't know if it is 'basic' its minimalist for sure. What feature is missing for you?
It doesn't have the luxury feel. Don't care about the lack of buttons, but it doesn't have the x-factor interior for a $75K car.
If you can wait, the Toyota/Subaru releases are coming in Q1-2 2023. But you'll need to be registering your place in the waitlist now.
You mean the Toyota EV that was recalled and then Toyota purchased back in states as it was all too hard to fix? That one… Yeah I don't think it'll be hitting our shores in 2023.
It will and it's a shared vehicle with Subaru. Many EVs will now be collabs between manufacturers.
LOL have a read about the buyback in the USA….. It might be a collab between two OEMs, but it doesn't give me much hope at this stage of it making to to Aus in 2023.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-to-buy-back-faulty-toyo…
@JimmyF: I am aware of the wheel issues. I'm just not sure why anyone would think Toyota would toss out billions in R&D and production because of it?
@Benoffie: I never said they would toss the R&D, I said it won't be arriving here in 2023 as you claimed.
@plmko: Because the wheels fell off for the USA models delivered, so Toyota did a recall, then they couldn't fix them, so did a buy back. So yeah call me sceptical of them 'fixing' all these issues and delivering units in 2023 for the OZ market when the USA market is still waiting for cars to arrive that the wheels don't fall off. Plus the OZ delivery date has already been pushed back 3 months. More will follow.
@plmko: Tell me again about this great Toyota EV that is coming….. https://www.teslarati.com/toyota-bz4x-tesla-model-y-fighter-…
@JimmyF: How does Toyota, that has made millions of reliable cars design a car that has a wheels falling off fault? It’s probably using suspension components from off the rest of the Toyota shelf too.
Joint development between Subaru and Toyota, though I don't know who made which parts
Correct, but both companies shouldn't have had this issue in the first place. Legacy OEMs are meant to know how to build cars or so they have been claiming for a decade. When the legacy OEM start building EVs then Tesla will be dead. Tesla breaking 1M EVs a year, Toyota is going to be lucky to break 1k ;)
Toyota is going to be lucky to break 1k ;)
Hey, they broke 2700 bZ4X's :P
Hey, they broke 2700 bZ4X's :P
Made 2700, recalled 2700, purchased most of the USA stock back.
I guess they could be over 1k by the years end now. Interesting that the article says its a 'simple' bolt fix, but in the US they did a buy back on them.
How does Toyota, that has made millions of reliable cars design a car that has a wheels falling off fault? It’s probably using suspension components from off the rest of the Toyota shelf too.
No idea how they did, but they have. What is worse, the problem can't really be fixed at this stage, hence the buy back of the cars sold. So its not just a poorly designed part, but something bigger.
Sales are off the chart!!!! Look at all those zeros on the sales figures…. https://www.teslarati.com/toyota-bz4x-tesla-model-y-fighter-…
No negotiation and waitlist for full price?
Times have changed, think I have been under a rock for the past 2 years :-)
Living under a rock, and didn't do any internet research before talking to the sales reps
Surprised the Tesla rep wasn't holding back giggles when you asked for a discount
Test drive first. No point looking into it if my partner isn't comfortable driving it.
Research can come later… we weren't going to buy today or anytime soon.
We are old fashion so the rep is probably used to it.
We also asked the rep repeatedly to sit in the car while doing the test drive, but he refuse!
The car feels more like a toy than a car. It's very different.
Tesla would rather sell to people who are committed than waste their time with someone who is just browsing considering the wait time for one right now.
@askbargain: no offense to congo but really how oblivious would you have to be to make a thread like this
did congo live in an alternate universe where covid didnt happen and car makers have cheap and easy access to integrated circuits???
are you not able to see what's happening with a market flush with cash and wfh money and inflation
i mean wtf… i have a very low opinion of the avg. person who frequents this place because of the proven low level of just general awareness of market conditions but even i get surprised by threads like this
wait until he finds out his $75k Tesla is made in China!!!
@tonyjzx: This thread helped me find out more info on EV cars and has provided me with better options, so all good.
@askbargain: We visited several dealers and test droved several different cars.
All the dealers were friendly and answered all of our questions. They weren't upset or disrepected us in anyways.
We did go during off-peak and there weren't any other shoppers and they seemed quite bored.
So what you said isn't correct at all.
@askbargain: The Tesla agents said that they weren't paid commission. Not sure if that is true or not.
But we didn't have any poor service issues. They were all friendly!
Had my Model Y for close to a month now - it's ridiculously undervalued for the car it is.
Don't even consider negotiating at this point lmao
Don't even consider negotiating at this point lmao
You can't even if you wanted to.
you know things have gone weird when 2nd have low mileage Model 3s are more than brand new ones… because ya know, when ya got $70k in your pocket and you just gotta taste was Elon is cooking…
It's not just Teslas, people are paying above the book price for most makes as they can't wait. The "I want it now" generation at play, I can't wait 6-12 months for it to arrive. Look at the prices of used RAV4s
@Dlw: in response to this Toyota has graciously increased the price across the board by $3,500… even for existing paid orders.
This is where we're at. Toyota knows they got the big stick so they dont care. Pay us or go buy Korean… or wait. you cant…
This is where we're at. Toyota knows they got the big stick so they dont care. Pay us or go buy Korean… or wait. you cant…
LOL is that why Toyota has had the 4th qtr in sales decline? Production fell 8.6% in July from year ago. Sounds like a 'booming' company.
I meant in general for EVs, or at least most of them. The 3 and Y even at this price point is excellent if you can wait 6-9 months. People who got in to the Y order book like myself early only had to wait less than 3.
Why is the Model Y ridiculously undervalued ?
Genuine question.
Negating in 2022 is null, zip, nudda, zero, zilch. no.