So I'm stopped at the stop sign turning left and there's a car on the opposite side turning right. We're both stopped waiting for cars from the right to pass.
I know with a standard 4 way intersection the other car has to give way to me if I'm turning left or going straight. However, as the road I'm on is slightly offset and not exactly head on with the other road it's got me second guessing myself. Am I wrong to turn before the other car?
Cheers.
They have right of way.
@pegaxs
¿Que
Que¿? Is that you manuel?
*vomits a little into mouth*
“Right of way” isn’t a thing (and they certainly don't have it.)
“3 seconds” isn’t a thing (RR#67 says nothing about 3 seconds.)
The last part sounds like it kinda makes sense…
You are correct. 3 seconds is a myth. (I did assessor work for Vic Roads)
Many professional driving instructors will tell the student to stop and count to 3 at a stop sign. This is to instill a habit of not slowly rolling through a stop sign.
@Muzeeb: My new learner was told ‘stop, then look’ by an instructor. No need to count. It kinda makes sense as there’s not much point looking before you’ve stopped.
‘Right of way’ is a turn of phrase, I never suggested it was a legal “right”.
I agree I was incorrect about having to stop for 3 seconds.
It’s a ‘turn of phrase’ that needs to go away. It’s a subtle but important change in thinking that means a driver NEVER has the option to carry on regardless, there is always a responsibility to not crash that overrides any rules indicating who is legally obliged to give way.
There is no right of way.
the stop sign means you need to come to a stop. once you have completed that give way rules apply. after having stopped, if you are going left then then the car opposite needs to give way if they are turning right. but if you haven't stopped, then they can turn right before you
Agree, stop doesn't mean give way to all other traffic.
i could be wrong. googling seems to suggest a person has to stop and give way to all other traffic coming in any direction
but the OP is safe at this intersection, because the sign only says "STOP eating animals"
qld road rules say that a stop sign is not more powerful than a giveway sign
"A stop sign is not more powerful than a give way sign when giving way. When 2 drivers arrive at stop or give ways signs at the same time, the stop sign becomes the equivalent of a give way sign. Both vehicles must give way to other vehicles before they must give way to each other."
It’s true, but the link you provided is a ‘plain english’ interpretation of the rules, not the actual rule. Not sure wether it is in the legislation or just implied because of the wording in the legislation.
Where's the poll?
Stop is stop and let any other car go first. Give way is give way to cars on the main road only.
As such OP is in the wrong.
Is this intersection in Nannup? or Rubyvale? or Ivy tanks? by any chance?
Looks like a pretty messy intersection with Katoomba Falls Rd nearby as well.
Sydney roads are messy in general.
@Ghost47: Sydney roads? It's in Katoomba… That's like seeing a photo of a road in Gisborne and saying "Melbourne roads are messy in general"
Katoomba is almost 50km from Penrith, which, in turn, is about another 50km to Sydney CBD.
@pegaxs: When I say the name of any capital city, I’m not referring to the CBD but the greater capital city area. I don’t know anyone who, when they say the name of a capital city, refers to only the CBD. When people say “I live in Melbourne” or “I’m from Melbourne” they generally don’t mean the CBD.
Katoomba is part of the Sydney GCC.
Even if it wasn’t, it doesn’t change the fact that Sydney roads are messy in general.
NSW RR#67 deals with stop sign and giving way.
NSW RR#69 deals with give way signs and giving way.
It would depend a lot on arrival times and traffic flow on the road you are entering.
If they arrive just before you and there is no traffic, then they can take their turn before you (providing they "give way"), as you will still need to come to a complete stop before progressing.
If they arrive at or slightly after you, they need to give way to you, as they are crossing a lane to get to yours and you will most likely leave at the same time and if this is the case, they would need to give way to you.
Give way and stop signs are not a "ranking" system.
From RR#67; (Stopping and giving way at a stop sign or stop line at an intersection without traffic lights)
(3) The driver must give way to a vehicle in, entering or approaching the intersection except—
(a) an oncoming vehicle turning right at the intersection if a stop sign, stop line, give way sign or give way line applies to the driver of the oncoming vehicle, or
I’d imagine most would treat it as a cross road despite the small offset.
If you’ve already stopped, then treat it as both with give way signs at a cross road.
If you haven’t stopped, you have to stop.
SA road rules YouTube says a stop sign is not "more powerful" than a give way sign and the signs cancel each other out, so standard unsigned intersection rules apply. That's if you consider this to be a four way intersection https://youtu.be/NMzLyz2EliI?t=41
Its the same street, Selby Lane, on both sides of the main road, Katoomba St, so it is a cross intersection, not two separate slightly-offset T-intersections.
So who gives way to who is a matter of which direction they are going and the timing of their arrival at the intersection. If they arrive simultaneously the one at the STOP sign has to come to a complete stop, by which time the one at the GIVE WAY sign could have gone through.
I learnt something today from the comments lol.
Let's say we both come to the intersection (technically an intersection to me) at the same time and no traffic left and right, if I was the 'stop' sign driver, I would have thought I would have the first move because I only need to drive into 1 lane to turn left and the other driver needs to drive onto 2 lanes to turn right.
You probably wouldn't get into an accident because by the time you started moving again after stopping, the car on the other side would be partway through their turn and you would know to stay stopped a little longer before going
There is no harm in giving way (defensive driving). It does not look like a very busy intersection.
Generally I agree with this, but if you are giving way unexpectedly you could end up causing someone to hit you if they aren’t paying proper attention and not expecting someone to stop.
Our driving culture is based around expecting the roads to be clear and people to follow the rules. Stop to give way to someone who should be giving way to you and you are now in a position that other drivers don’t expect and if they are distracted could be a problem. That is unlike some other countries where it appears to be a free for all and people drive expecting anything and everything and will be more alert to not following the rules.
You have a stop sign/linemarking. They have a give way sign/linemarking.
They have right of way.
Though ultimately it does depend on when each vehicle arrives at the intersection. But if it is at the same time, your stop requires you to actually stop for 3 seconds, but their give way just makes them give way to other vehicles already on that road. They do not have to come to the stop.