Has anyone received their land tax bill with a huge increase compared to last year?
Silly me was expecting a decrease since land values have gone down
Since it’s a 3 year average a similar % increases will be seen for the next 2 years.
Looks like the govt NSW “free”stationary vouchers weren’t free after all. Maybe free money for officeworks.
Wonder if requesting a review which would involve using the services of a valuer be worthwhile?
Government didn't do anything here. OP's property value went up. Government didn't need to do anything and is only taking a 1.6% cut off that property value which went up by 40%.
I wish I could pay taxes at 1.6% even if my income goes up 40%!
Not income though. Just a intangible increase that may or maynot be crystallised.
Encourage people to sell thus getting stamp duties or keep and increase the rent increasing inflation
It’s the double standards - they say to reign in spending to curb inflation but slug you with a 40% increase
Or encourage Australians to take a pay cut/2.5% increase
All they doing is taking back indirectly from the taxpayer due to the buying of mr and Mrs simples vote by supplying free movie tickets and free stationary
If you can't pay the land tax, why not sell one of your many investment properties?
Has happened to heaps of people. Will be more land tax increases as government tried to repay covid, but at the same time causes increases in rents making housing even less affordable.
Had 30% increase to land tax, if you go over certain thresholds, becomes more. Land value only increased by $160000
Paying $5000 more than last year.
Interest now triple, but 6% interest rates are pretty normal.
Yeah, rents aren't going to get any cheaper.
Good luck people.
This issue is that it was calculated at the height of pandemic prices. I don’t know how often they recalculate but I reckon they’ll leave these prices for a while
They calculate based on council assessments, that are done every 2 years. Which is very retarded and only Victoria does it this way. Some other states use an averaging system which is significantly fairer.
since land values have gone down
On what planet?
Some house prices have temporarily eased slightly but land value? Limited, in demand resources never go down.
Earth
From 1/7/21 last value used to calculate land tax to this years value as at 1/7/22
Certainly not 40% increase
Between those periods land value was still going to the moon.
So your valuation shows a decline in value?
Overall it's gone up 40% over the past 5 years though…
Also land value is not necessarily house price value.
Houses depreciate. The government recognises this and allows you to claim depreciation on an investment property. An increase in the value of a piece of real estate is due to the land value increasing; likewise for a decrease.
Doesn't work if it's an old house
Correct. The government allows 2.5% p.a. depreciation, so after 40 years it's all used up. You can continue to depreciate newer fittings etc.
Just like the the Weekly ticket transition to the Opal Card. Choose who you vote for wisely.
The threshold for land tax was raised, effectively it was a tax break to investors. If you owned a $1M IP that did not change in land value since last year, you would have paid much less tax from $2948 last year to now paying $596 this year.
Apples and oranges.
You can thank those in Australia selling Australia and ruining it.
THe new airport in Western sydney, guess what thats is going to bring… MORE land tax, MORE traffic, MORE wasted time, and LESS freedom for the good things in life.
You forgot to add tolls and airport fees so as to not hurt Sydney Airport jobs.
Who cares about tolls.
In the next 10 years the traffic in sydney will double, because of all the new people coming in for whatever.
Thats going to mean every sydney sider is stuck for twice as long on trains and cars and more for every day of their life - and they gain basically nothing positive in return.
Growing pains are the worst. Western Sydney is already marginalised but both your governments up there are a total shitshow. You could hire a masturbating monkey and it would get more done than either the Liberals or Labor up there.
I’m sick of big Australia.
Sydney airport jobs are costing tax payers millions for each job.
The airport, train lines basically only for it, roads and so on will end up costing at least $30B. Lets pretend that creates 10k jobs. Each job is costing tax payers $3M each.
It would be cheaper to pay each of those jobs a million dollars and you would still come out with $20B in front.
Its the same as the dumb metro to the CBD. Just the tunnel portion from North Sydney along with the extra work stations and extra work at Central will cost tax payers $5 - $10B.
Whats the point of spending $5 or $10B to save a few cafes and a few retail shops in the city ?
Each shop and job is costing tax payers tens of millions each. It woudl be cheaper to buy and close down all the shops than build the metro to the CBD.
Its not growing pains, becaue those words imply the growing pains will end when things mature.
Just look at sydney lots of growing pains since say the 80s, has the traffic, commuting or masses gotten better ? Of course not it gotten worse and is going downhill faster than ever.
I believe the Valuer General department does a valuation of the unimproved land (no house on top) very three years. Last done in 2022 and new value is used to calculate for 2023 rates. Apparently the whole state value went up by that much.
Not sure where you read up on the three year average stuff. Here is a source of truth
https://www.valuergeneral.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/…
The land tax is calculated on the average land value of the last 3 yrs
So, the land tax rate didn't change then? It was your property value going up?
40% increase in your property value minus 1.6% land tax = you're still ahead? What a shitpost.
So your (assessed) land value has gone up 40%?
Or are you saying they have changed the way land tax is calculated and has gone 40% without any increase in the value of the underlying land?
Calculated the same but my land value has been adjusted by about 35/40 %
Might of been undervalued in prior yrs but to have such a steep increase for the next 3 years is not reasonable
Ok, so you are complaining that your asset has increased in value by 35-40%?
I don’t think you know how land tax works judging by your comments
@djkelly69: Higher land value = higher land tax/ownership costs. Contrary to the wordings, owner shells out more money (unless they are selling the property off).
@ddhar: yes but higher land value = higher land value. Your asset has gone up in value. I'm not sure how you say that is an incorrect statement.
And, yes, because of the gap between valuation changes and price changes, your value may be slightly higher than it should be right at this point in time. However (a) that is why its averaged over 3 years and (b) the same thing happened when values were going up a lot and the valuation was lagging. The valuation was lower than the price at the time. So swings and roundabouts.
@dtc: @Peanut Money and @ddhar absolutely contradicted themselves. Im starting to wonder if I need new glasses or this is some next level logic. The council has determined your land has increased in valuation as such the higher tax. As simple as that.
@dtc: Higher land value means squat unless: 1) Owner is selling up (and realizing that capital gain), or 2) Using the property as IP (deductible land tax bills).
For many, it's more bill to pay on top of other bills (which have increased greatly in the last 12 months).
@ddhar: Higher land value means higher land value. It definitely means higher land value.
You are saying it also means higher rates, which it does; you are also saying that you get no benefit from higher land value at this point in your life because you arent going to sell the asset. And that is true, right now at this point in your life. Unless you debt recycle (and you have lower risk of negative equity).
However, at some point in your life this will be an advantage. Or at some point after you die, I guess, it will advantage your beneficiaries.
Now, from my perspective, I think it would be great if all land values pretty much stayed flat and, correspondingly, house prices also stayed flat. Starting about 15 years ago. For all the reasons widely discussed in relation to the problems with high housing prices and, yes, ongoing rates. Nonetheless, you are arguing two completely different issues and claiming they are the same issue
Why isn’t it reasonable? If it was historically undervalued you’ve been getting a discount.
Just house an endangered animal on your land and you will be tax exempt.
i'm a landlord and I always pass on the costs to the tennants, but this on top of inflation and my expected profit margins makes me think the tennants will be renters for life
It's good business, but sometimes I wonder about the renters and how they even motivate themselves when all their money gets drained by rising costs
That's the way
dont worry about the stupid renters its there fault for not making smart money choices they probly buy expensive WOKE ALMOND MILK instead of coles homebrand and decided 2 nor have rich parents too help them witha deposit they dont know how 2 save. raise the rent again and GET THEM OUTTA THERE
I do remember on a rental inspection I noticed Coke 1.25l, which was more than double the price of Coles Q Cola, which is itself 500x the cost of tap water.
It adds up, and once you are over the hump you cruise.
HAH i new it. bad money choices theyl NEVER by a house like that
Ever considered asking tenants for sexual favours instead? Sort of like Uber and taxi drivers?
I used to in the past, but years later they still use it over you, so the tables can turn negatively
so the tables can turn negatively
Is that like negative gearing?
😉
That’s why you gotta put it in the lease.
“At times where the tenant is unable to fulfil their payment obligations, sexual favours will be accepted in lieu of payment.”
Legalese could be improved but that’s what the REAs are good for.
Rent Arrears and Labor Contract
This contract is entered into on 'Date' by 'Landlord's Name', (hereinafter referred to as "Landlord"), and 'Tenant's Name', (hereinafter referred to as "Tenant").
Rent Payment: Tenant agrees to pay rent in the amount of '$Amount' on the 'Due Date' of each month. Rent is considered in arrears if it is not paid within 14 days of the due date.
Labor Requirement: If rent is in arrears for 14 days, Tenant may be required to provide sexual services to the Landlord, for a minimum of 'Number of Hours' hours per week until the rent is brought current. Tenant agrees to perform such tasks as assigned by the Landlord.
Compensation: Tenant will not be compensated for labor performed under this contract. However, the hours worked will be applied toward the reduction of the Tenant's rent arrears at the minimum wage applicable.
Termination of Contract: This contract will terminate when the rent arrears have been paid in full.
Entire Agreement: This contract constitutes the entire agreement between the parties and supersedes all prior negotiations, representations, and agreements, whether written or verbal.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties have executed this contract as of the date first above written.
'Landlord's Signature'
'Tenant's Signature'
@Ghost47: Rent Arrears and Labor Contract
This contract is entered into on [Date] by [Landlord's Name], (hereinafter referred to as "Landlord"), and [Tenant's Name], (hereinafter referred to as "Tenant").
Rent Payment: Tenant agrees to pay rent in the amount of [$Amount] on the [Due Date] of each month. Rent is considered in arrears if it is not paid within 14 days of the due date.
Labor Requirement: If rent is in arrears for 14 days, Tenant may be required to provide sexual services to the Landlord, for a minimum of [Number of Hours] hours per week until the rent is brought current. Tenant agrees to perform such tasks as assigned by the Landlord.
Compensation: Tenant will not be compensated for labor performed under this contract. However, the hours worked will be applied toward the reduction of the Tenant's rent arrears at the minimum wage applicable.
Termination of Contract: This contract will terminate when the rent arrears have been paid in full.
Entire Agreement: This contract constitutes the entire agreement between the parties and supersedes all prior negotiations, representations, and agreements, whether written or verbal.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties have executed this contract as of the date first above written.
[Landlord's Signature]
[Tenant's Signature]
@Heaps for Cheaps: Did you ChatGPT that? as one it spat out for me was pretty similar :)
Rent Arrears and Labor Contract
This Contract is entered into on [insert date] by and between:
[Landlord's Name], hereinafter referred to as "Landlord",
and
[Tenant's Name], hereinafter referred to as "Tenant".The parties agree as follows:
Premises. The Landlord rents to the Tenant the premises located at [insert address], hereinafter referred to as "Premises".Rent Payment. The Tenant agrees to pay the monthly rent of [insert amount] on the [insert day] of each month.
Rent Arrears. If the Tenant fails to pay rent when due, the Tenant may make payment of the rent arrears by performing personal services for the Landlord. The amount of time spent performing personal services shall be equal to the monetary value of the rent arrears.
Nature of Personal Services. The nature of the personal services to be performed by the Tenant shall be determined by the Landlord and shall be reasonable in light of the Tenant's skills and abilities. The personal services shall not conflict with any applicable labor laws or regulations.
Record Keeping. The Tenant shall keep a record of the time spent performing personal services and shall provide a copy of the record to the Landlord upon request.
Termination. Either party may terminate this Contract at any time by giving written notice to the other party.
Governing Law. This Contract shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the [insert state or country].
Entire Agreement. This Contract constitutes the entire agreement between the parties and supersedes all prior negotiations, representations, and agreements, whether written or oral.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties have executed this Contract as of the date first above written.
[Landlord's Signature]
[Tenant's Signature]
@SBOB: Yes, I did change it slightly. Your one is more balanced as it allows the tenant to limit their services to that of which their skill level allows.
Are you saying that if your costs didn't go up you wouldn't raise your rent?
Or say it was vacant and you couldn't get a tenant, you wouldn't reduce your rent?
Rent has little to do with costs. It's entirely up to what the market will pay. If there's a lot of available property for rent, rents will be low. If not, rents will be high. Costs so t really come into it. You might justify a rent increase because of a cost increase, but you'd be making a bad investment decision if you didn't increase rent in the absence of cost increases.
Lol land value had gone down? What a clown. The cost of purchasing land has increased in turn causing prices to drop, but the lands value will never drop.
So 50 or so consecutive interest hikes have done nothing to land values?
I’d admit been a clown just by wasting my time replying to your idiotic and clueless reply
Silly me was expecting a decrease since land values have gone down
April 1st?
The value was calculated as at 1 July 2022 before the drops.
Next year will be worse.
Murdoch has talked his sheep into a housing crisis.
The sheep went baaaah….
House prices going down, so the government need to jack up the price of your land to break even!
There's a land tax in NSW? Oh, right, it applies above ~$1M properties but there's an exemption for PPOR.
Fat cat wouldn't be crying over paying zero land tax for their Bondi mansion, they are actually crying that they need to pay tax on many of their speculative land holdings!
Cry cry.
Wrong simples
One can be renting as a PPOR - land holdings might be uninhabitable and unable to be sold due to asbestos contamination in the soil and flood prone
if unable to be sold, I offer $1 for the land
How much yearly land tax can you afford?
Seek financial advise before making your offer official
Last year i paid 5k on land tax.
this year i have to pay 7k.
so yes. 40%.
I am also not happy.
This, plus always increasing costs of everything is hurting.
i had to swap the beach holiday summer rental for a tent in a humid forest with no wind.
Why are you upset that your property went up $300k in one year? That can easily pay for $5k last year and $7k this year.
2022 tax threshold is $822,000 and land tax is 1.6% + $100 above threshold. $5k means $1.1M property value
2023 tax threshold is $969,000 and land tax is 1.6% + $100 above threshold. $7k means $1.4M property value
You sound like me when I was just out of school. I used to think I was so clever.
I'm sorry gramps, I'll get off your lawn. I was expecting an argument/explanation for how my maths is wrong.
its because it didn't go up. it probably has gone down since i bought it two years ago.
no one trades on land value.we trade on improvement value
also the increase in land value is unrealised by me unless i sell. so it actually pays for nothing
It looks like to me, over 3 years last year, your land was on average $1.1M. Then this year it's going to be $1.4M? That's the consequence of rising house prices I say. But if you disagree with how they assessed your land value then did you object? https://www.valuergeneral.nsw.gov.au/land_values/what_if_you…
You can also look up the average values in your local area: https://www.valuergeneral.nsw.gov.au/land_value_summaries/lg…
How they value land: https://www.valuergeneral.nsw.gov.au/land_values/how_do_we_v…
@Peanut money: I don't think that's quite right. The information for lodging an objection doesn't mention getting an expert valuation.
Have a look here: https://www.valuergeneral.nsw.gov.au/land_values/what_if_you…
and here specifically:
https://www.valuergeneral.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/…
It says:
What to provide
If you believe your land value is too high or
too low you will need to:
• tell us what you think your land value
should be, with an explanation and
rationale supporting your contended
land value.
• provide three (3) sales to support your
contended land value. You must tell us
how or why the sales are comparable
to your property.
So you don't need an expert valuer. The sales info can be found here:
https://www.valuergeneral.nsw.gov.au/services/sales-enquiry.…?
@Sezza: Yep. Looks like you don’t need one
Not sure how you would determine land value portion vs building value of comparable sales without a valuer though
@FoxJump: In your objection lodgement, what month/year were your comparable sales from?
I can't find a straight answer from their website - not sure if it should be FY21-22 or Calendar Year 2022.
@Sezza: i looked for sales in the last 6 months in the suburbs and surrounding suburbs. i attached screenshots and URLs for then and stated that because it's a downwards market this is made complicated as real estate agents stop advertising the sale price
@orangetrain: Yeh our friend orange, must think more zeros means a better life or something.
I mean look at Zimbabwe, they have zeros coming out of their arse, that doesnt mean its a good country.
More zeros on your home doesnt make a better life.
no one trades on land value
That's not true, a lot of people buy land solely for it's location then clear what's there and build new. Being close to schools, shops, transport etc are all very desirable yet the land is generally taken. I even know someone who literally moved across the road after doing a knock down rebuild first because the view was better than their current block.
@apsilon: yeah but you don't buy at land value. you always pay extra for whatever is on top - unless it's a lead asbestos radioactive wasteland
@FoxJump: While the seller no doubt sees it that way, to those people, they're only paying for the land as it's the only part that they're interested in or keeping.
@apsilon: and a lot of people are billionaires, but not everyone has trading land based on price as the top priority of their life.
Most people would rather things just remain the same or revert to old days of 10 years ago before all this silly rush and change happened.
Not all change is good, soemtimes most people are satisfied with the status quo.
Not all change is good, soemtimes most people are satisfied with the status quo.
No doubt but you can't stop change.
no one trades on land value
Unless you obtained the land for free, clearly some 'ones' trade on land value….
Property going up 300k is not a win. because our friend is selling the property but they are paying the land rates this year.
Secondly if you they do sell their home, guess what th enext home they buy also went up… so they didnt win.
Seems you dont know how to do basic maths.
Woah… you own land?
I have a humble 2 bedroom semi in Clovelly which has seen an increase in land value of over 63% from 2021 to 2023.
Land tax levied at value of $3.24m equates to $1055 per week.
Property is rented below that figure. Add on council rates (which are about to double because of new land valuation), water rates, insurance and maintenance costs and I am renting the place at a loss of over $200 per week.
How is that fair and equitable?"
humble 2 bedroom semi in Clovelly……Land tax levied at value of $3.24m
putting a new definition on the word 'humble' when it comes to real estate
One of the intentions of land tax is to encourage appropriate land use. You should be redeveloping your land to increase the rentable value.
As an extreme example, if you had vacant land in the CBD that was zoned for 50 storey office buildings, you would pay a bunch in tax. A better use of the land is to build that office tower, or sell the land to someone who can develop it.
They can build four granny flats on the land and rent it out to four immigrant families.
How is that fair and equitable?
Well if this isn’t the most sad and entitled thing I’ve read in a while.
You made the choice to invest in property, write the loss off on your tax and use all the other benefits the government has given you to minimise your losses.
Not the sharpest tool in the shed are you 😉
You invest in property, you consider all possible risks and that includes increase in investment costs (e.g. land tax).
Suck it up.
Government always wins…