How to Dispute a Charge with a Moving Company (Allied Pickfords)

Lrumblytangara on 08/02/2023 - 19:33
Last edited 08/02/2023 - 20:09

So I'm new to the country (been away for decades and just returned) and to the forum. Not sure if this is the right subform to post this, but it's the closest I can find.

We had our home contents shipped to Sydney recently with Allied, and they've stuck us with a charge that I want to contest- the made paying this charge a condition of delivery, quoting possible complications with our delivery address.

I spoke on the phone with their ops manager, who sounded quite reasonable an explained that the charge would only be kept if they needed additional manpower (above a 2 man crew) for security (keep an eye on the truck) or vehicles for delivery.

On the day, it turned out that my address was no problem- they got the container to my doorstep. Three people were there but only two guys were involved in moving, one girl was ticking boxes off a list. A bunch of other staff turned up an hour alter, swapped around their trucks/gear for other jobs, and then left. 2 guys stayed, everyone else (including the original girl) just left to go home. All these people were contractors paid by the job/day, not actual Allied staff paid by time.

So now Allied is insisting that the job required additional manpower, required what they are calling 'non standard access', when clearly both conditions were false.

I'd like to fight this, they have my money (it was just shy of $500) and I'd like it back. The money… is less of an issue. I just don't like being taken advantage of by a bunch of shysters at 'head office' who cannot be arsed to pick up their phones, and communicate a week later with short emails full of bollocks.

Any suggestions on how to go about this effectively?

Thanks.

Home & Garden

Related Stores

Allied Pickfords
Allied Pickfords

Comments

  • Muzeeb on 08/02/2023 - 19:43
    +7

    Welcome to furniture removal 'worlds best practice' in Australia.

  • freefall101 on 08/02/2023 - 19:57
    +5

    Depending on your state, gotta go through the process

    Talk to them about the issue (which you have done)
    Request a refund since they overcharged you and detail why they overcharged you
    Do a credit card chargeback because they overcharged you if they don't refund you
    Take it to your state consumer body if none of the above works.

    • rumblytangara on 08/02/2023 - 20:05

      I have done 1 and 2

      I haven't been in country long enough to get a credit card, it was a bank transfer, so they have my money. (Edit: It was via a debit Mastercard transfer, which I think is essentially the same thing as a bank transfer)

      What would the NSW body be to move this on to? I've spent the last week trying to chase them up, they don't answer phones and it took a week to get a full of crap/nonsensical email response from them.

      • Agarwal on 09/02/2023 - 11:50

        What do you mean by Debit Mastercard transfer, if you mean you gave them your Debit Card number then you should still be able to do a chargeback, but if you just did a transfer to their bank BSB & Account number you wont.

    • mskeggs on 08/02/2023 - 20:11
      +17

      This is the right approach. Write to them with the idea that your letter will end up in front of an adjudicator.
      So maybe say things like:
      - even if Allied did not assess the need for extra manpower correctly, the staff were able to redeploy after a short time (needn’t mention that you think they went home)
      - you relied on their experience to assess the level of manpower correctly, and paid ahead for that, but the level they quoted was not required so you would like a refund.
      - you do not wish to take this further, but as you did not receive the benefit of the extra charge you are prepared to do so.
      - State the precise amount you are seeking as a refund, and the way you wish to receive it (be accommodating, not a smart arse) and a date in 2 or 3 weeks you would like this concluded.
      - thank them for the work they did, and explain it is just this incorrect fee you are disputing.

      Basically, sound very reasonable, point out they made an error, that you didn’t receive the extra service, and that you would like the refund.

      If it were me, I would acknowledge that an extra staff member attended briefly, and suggest you can accept covering $50 for their first unneeded hour, but not the remaining $450 charge when it was clear to all they were unneeded, to the point they left.

      IF it then comes to arguing about whether $50 is a reasonable amount, insist they shouldn’t get extra profit for making an error that they should have been able to foresee with their experience.

      • rumblytangara on 08/02/2023 - 20:37
        +2

        Thanks for the two posts, that gives me enough structure to work with.

        From their behavior so far, I can predict this is going to be a bit of a protracted PIA. I get the impression that this is standard practice for them.

        The actual movers were absolutely fantastic- hard workers, friendly and helpful. From the sounds of it, they get shafted by Allied as well. They're regularly overloaded with jobs that go into the night, at a flat day rate. But they still seemed cheerful about it.

      • nwa on 09/02/2023 - 07:55

        Initially I thought good response but i think best to be more direct and dispute the extra charge as it was totally unjustified and wrong to charge that. No need to tell them how to run their businesses with shifting man power around.

        • mskeggs on 09/02/2023 - 08:16

          Can’t dispute a bank transfer.

          • nwa on 09/02/2023 - 08:38

            @mskeggs: I meant in the letter write that, I would get rid of your first 3 points and say something like extra charge was totally unjustified and wrong. They are clearly covering up first they say it was extra man power to watch truck which it was not and later say it was for non standard access which is also false. The letter needs to be more a demand and threat to take this further than a plead as the jig is up.

          • kiitos on 09/02/2023 - 11:51

            @mskeggs: He clarifief later it was a MasterCard debit card, would that be able to be charged back?

      • rumblytangara on 01/09/2023 - 19:17
        +2

        Update to this.

        I took this up with Fair Trading, who were great to talk to over the phone and pretty much confirmed that Allied didn't really have much of a leg to stand on. Fair Trading in turn contacted Allied, and were told to get lost. Because Fair Trading has no enforcement powers.

        I then took this up with NCAT, and had a hearing date set for two weeks later. They tried making an offer the day before the hearing, which I rejected out of hand. At the hearing which initially did not involve an NCAT adjudicator, the Allied manager kept trying to change arguments and literally invented nonexistent information. I could tell that he was fairly practiced at spinning BS, and wasn't prepared to play that game, so decided we'd just go straight back into the official hearing room. As soon as I'd explained this, he totally capitulated and it was agreed that I'd be refunded in full.

        The takeaway from this where that it was important to document everything- phone conversations were followed up by summary emails from me to Allied. I took copious photos of the site and the move. I printed out the terms from Allied, and had measured distances involved, so I knew for certain when they were just inventing figures from thin air. If I hadn't done the reading and prep, their experience with going to NCAT disputes probably would have let them confuse me into agreeing to only a partial (if any) refund.

        In hindsight, none of this was the result of a simple misunderstanding. It appeared to be standard operating procedure for the company in NSW. Thanks for @mskeggs thanks for your structured suggestion on how to approach this. And @nwa, you were correct about not approaching this as a way to reach some sort of compromise with the company, they went into this with a totally dismissive and adversarial attitude so there was nothing to really compromise on.

        • mskeggs on 01/09/2023 - 20:18
          +1

          Great result, thanks for the update too! It is nice to find out what happens.

  • Stopback on 08/02/2023 - 19:59

    Op did you help the movers or just record them on your phone

    • rumblytangara on 08/02/2023 - 20:07
      +2

      I ended up moving a fair bit myself, just because I was redirecting boxes between locations. Ended up totally wasted for two days later.

      Didn't record anything besides the photo that the container made it to my front door. The operations people claimed that the container wouldn't make it to the door, but they'd refund me if it did make it.

      • mskeggs on 08/02/2023 - 20:15
        +5

        If you take the advice I put above about a letter, add in the comment you were advised the extra was only if there was no door access, and a phot o is attached to show door access.

        In NSW the small claims venue you want to go to if unsuccessful is NCAT, find it with NSW NCAT in Google - a non-lawyer forum for low value disputes.

  • MITM on 08/02/2023 - 21:01
    +1

    You've done your best, now put it in the hands of the pro's
    https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/help-centre/online-tools/…

    • rumblytangara on 02/09/2023 - 11:44

      Fair trading turned out to be friendly but toothless, Allied essentially told them to get stuffed, but Fair trading did say that the next step was submit essentially the same information to NCAT. Which was slightly correct- the NCAT submission is structured differently in that it does not accept supporting information online- you have to take that with you to the hearing in hardcopy form.

  • datafellows on 08/02/2023 - 21:45

    Did you sign the contract with the overseas Allied office or other company overseas that used Allied here in Australia?

    What does the contract you signed say about extra charges?

    • rumblytangara on 08/02/2023 - 22:43

      It was signed overseas. There was an amount for a more complex delivery (which was $50 less than the amount the Australian operation demanded, but I was willing to let that slide after I pointed that out and Allied AU ignored it).

  • nwa on 09/02/2023 - 07:50

    No need to say they went home as you don't know that. OR they were contractors, in your view they are Allied. Was delivery to a house or unit block ? And what was the distance from public street to where the offload occurred?

    • rumblytangara on 09/02/2023 - 14:40

      It was to a unit, one floor up via stairs (which I have on the contract as being included in my original shipment cost). Distance from public street to the apartment block was literally about 3 metres, then maybe 8M to the entrance of the block and the stairs.

      Basically, I had blocked off space for the truck to park, and then enough extra space for a second truck to rock up as the crews did some equipment and personnel swaps that had nothing to do with my move.

  • pharkurnell on 09/02/2023 - 10:40
    +3

    Sounds normal for removal companies… mate made the mistake of telling them he had to be out Friday,
    They turned up Friday afternoon (too late to find anyone else) and then the quote went up by shit loads… they also charged him storage at the other end.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/02/2023 - 11:42

    OP which Allied entity is on your invoice?

    If it's an overseas entity than most of the advice here so far is irrelevant.

    • rumblytangara on 09/02/2023 - 14:42

      'Invoice' or the contract was signed overseas (Hong Kong). Locally, I paid an Australian entity. The overseas Allied office has had zero to do with this once the ship departed HK. They have stayed completely out of any email communications they have been cc'd on.

      Not sure if that answers the question.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/02/2023 - 09:48
        +1

        You didn't answer the question. Don't care where the invoice or 'contract' was physically signed, what entity is on it? Who did you contract with? If it's an overseas entity then you have no real legal recourse via Australian departments or tribunals.

        • rumblytangara on 02/09/2023 - 11:45

          Foruntately for me, this turned out to be irrelevant- the charge and reasons for charge were generated locally, so the dispute fell under the domain of NCAT.

  • Lunarboogie on 09/02/2023 - 12:20

    AP are trying to screw me too. I'm currently in the midst of relocating back here from Malaysia. Two weeks ago the agent contacted me saying that my shipment had arrived in Sydney but would need to undergo an AQUIS review which will take anytime between 12 - 30 days.

    So I think no wukkhas, and book a 10 day holiday to Bali which would get me back well in time. The very next day after the agent contacted me, she contacted me again (I'm now at the airport) saying the review is done and that the shipment will be delivered the next day with any delay being at cost to me. I told them I was on holidays and to itemise the supposed cost which I'll fight them on. They're behavior is appalling.

    • rumblytangara on 09/02/2023 - 13:34

      Yeah, I'm still in emails with these guys, the manager in the Sydney office has pretty much lied through his teeth to me over a phone call. Everything is sweet and sensible prior delivery, and the afterwards nobody picks up phones or answers emails for a week, and it's a total change of story.

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