Hi everyone
Thinking of installing an instantaneous hot gas water vs gas storage water heater (the big 160L ones etc that have a pilot light)
Just wanted to check what the running costs would be- given instantaneous would be cheaper I assume as it lights only when in use?
Any idea (reason is if I do go with that I would have to install a PowerPoint as well which is about 25m from the fuse box. Any ideas on how much this would cost ?
Cheers
Oh so changing from storage to continuous would need a larger diameter?
It can, but it will depend on what you currently have there already and how far away from the meter the water heater will be installed. In my case it was a simple swap over despite not having previously had instant gas. My new instant gas water heater is more or less directly over the gas meter.
For instant, you normally want 19mm (ext. diam) copper pipe, vs 12mm for storage. But it depends on the distance.
If HWS is close enough to the meter, you'll be OK. And you want the heater near the kitchen sink, for speed.
Instant heaters are smaller so might not need to go in the same place as your old tank, but moving it means more water plumbing.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/search/products?q=smartex
Google is a wonderful thing.
installing an instantaneous hot gas water
you mean continuous flow..? they aren't very instant, not in winter AFAIK
Mine is absolutely instant, other than the time it takes to flush cold water out of the pipes between the water heater and the tap.
so it's not instant.
it's instant to start heating of cold water, not instant delivery of hot water
Okay
I check the weather forecast, my emails and the sharemarket while I am waiting for my continuous flow HWS to deliver hot water.
It was a poor choice for a large two storey house.
Make sure to check your state offerings for water heater upgrades. I'm looking at switching from instantaneous gas to heat pump because I have solar and heat pumps are extremely efficient (uses 70% less power using a refrigeration system rather than just pumping heat straight into the water), plus the vic gov will give me $1k towards it. Gas boosted solar is also going to be way cheaper to run than just gas and it's a similar setup (uses solar heated unless there isn't any, at which point instantaneous gas kicks in)
Gas lines might also need to be upgraded, it's a large flow of gas for instantaneous and your existing lines might not be able to handle it. Instantaneous gas isn't good for a large household either.
For running costs just look at the star rating for the specific device you're looking at. They vary within a range, you can get an instantaneous that's as bad as a storage one. You can see some of the comparisons of annual energy use here
The Vic rebate I thought is just for elect to heat pump not gas to it? Source?
Requirement is that it's at any heating but at least 3 years old - https://www.solar.vic.gov.au/solar-hot-water-rebate - for $1k from Solar Victoria as an expansion of their solar hot water rebate.
Different to the Victorian energy upgrade rebates, which are these - https://www.energy.vic.gov.au/for-households/victorian-energ…
I've heard that in May or thereabouts, the Victorian energy rebates may be widened to include gas storage to heat pump?
@placard: Yup, apparently - https://www.energy.vic.gov.au/for-industry/victorian-energy-…
I'm a bit confused on what that all means but it sounds like a few things are changing and other things are going away.
A gas instantaneous system with the same rating as a gas storage system will generally be more efficient and have a lower energy consumption than the storage system. This is because gas storage systems have heat losses, which stay the same no matter how much hot water is used.
However, if you have a PV (solar system) on your roof and you are generating excess electricity through the day, your cheapest hot water may be had by installing an electric storage system and heating that with your excess solar generation. Then the inefficiency of storage doesn't matter much at all because you are getting the electricity to heat for very cheap (effectively the price of your Feed In Tariff).
The answer on how much to get an electrician to install an outdoor power outlet has too many variables to answer accurately. Anywhere from $100 - $500, depending on the proximity of a power circuit to tap in to, wall construction, location and so on. Best to call some lecco's and get a quote.
what i noticed
Gas continuous flow,
- in winter it takes a long time to get the hot water to flow to the taps. enough to fill a bucket.
- if the power is out, the hot water doesn't flow.
- when the water is hot and flowing it is endless which great for long showers.
gas storage heater.
- hot water will flow quicker to the taps
- if the power goes out water will still flow hot until it runs out.
- not good for long showers. or at least need a long break between lots of hot water usage.
- if the power is out, the hot water doesn't flow.
Not all models require electrical power.
true, but most modern ones in homes are not gas pilot models.
You can pay a little more for battery or "hydropower" if reliability is important.
Although instantaneous does not use any gas when you're not using hot water, it uses 5 times more than a tank when you are. It also uses more gas if the water line is cold e.g. in Winter. Due to these two facts, instantaneous uses more gas than a tank for a family that takes long showers.
Thanks mate very useful
My gas bill dropped by more than 25% when switching from gas storage to instantaneous. That's with 4x10min showers a day.
I also haven't noticed any significant differences in heating time between winter and summer.
I would have thought that the gas heated water tank would use less gas for 4 people x 10min. Maybe your shower heads are the efficient ones (6L or 9L/min)?
re: Winter and Summer - the instant gas water heater uses more gas to heat water from say 13deg to 50deg vs in Summer when it might be heating from 18deg to 50deg.
5 times more? lol
I've had gas storage, instant gas standalone and solar with instant gas booster.
The instant gas used less overall than gas storage.. and solar with instant gas booster uses virtually nothing when sunny.
I used 793.82 MJ/$14.67 of gas for 2 months- Dec/Jan 4 person household. I rarely cook with gas so the 793.82 MJ would be virtually all used for gas hot water.
The plumber that installed the instant gas said that. And when I checked the specs, he was right.
The 5 times more is probably worst case - 2 people showering in separate showers and another person washing dishes in the kitchen with the washing machine on a warm wash in the middle of Winter in Tasmania.
You’re probably correct in saying that it CAN use 5 times more gas at max output but how often is it burning compared to gas storage?
There’s a reason why gas storage can run out of hot water but instant doesn’t.
I would recommend getting electric one. Its cheaper to maintain over time . Plus with solar subsidies it picture it would almost be free.
https://www.appliancesonline.com.au/filter/heating-and-cooli…
I've had instant for years after having a tank. I'd never go back to a tank.
People worrying about winter - you're in Sydney. Much like Adelaide, winters aren't really cold like Hobart or Canberra. It's not an issue.
Instant has the benefits of temperature control (per room/controller).
If you have a family (or are planning one), getting a large flow instant with multiple controllers will remove any supply concerns down the track.
But you should consider solar or heat pump tbh.
top of the line 400l electric heat pump storage units will set you back $5000-$6500 and use 2-3kw of power per day.
Hopefully it will last you more than 10 years because that's a huge capital expense and from what I read, heat pumps aren't as reliable as old fashion gas or electric hot water.
The top brands should (Sanden) as they have 6yr on the pump and 15yr on the tank.
Cheaper integrated models have had issues in the past.
An instantaneous gas hot water system generally has lower running costs compared to a gas storage water heater because it only heats water when it is required. In contrast, a gas storage water heater keeps water heated constantly, even when it is not needed. This means that an instantaneous gas hot water system can save energy and money on your gas bill.
The cost of installing a PowerPoint can vary depending on a number of factors, such as the distance from the fuse box, the complexity of the installation, and the materials needed. It's best to get a quote from a licensed electrician to get an accurate estimate for your specific situation.
It's also worth considering the upfront cost of purchasing and installing a new hot water system. An instantaneous gas hot water system may have a higher upfront cost compared to a gas storage water heater, but the long-term energy savings can make it a worthwhile investment. It's important to do your research and consider all the factors before making a decision.
Hey there! It's great that you're considering upgrading your water heater. Installing an instantaneous hot gas water heater can definitely help you save on energy costs since it only heats water when needed, unlike gas storage water heaters that keep a pilot light running continuously.
As for the running costs, it can vary depending on your usage, but overall an instantaneous hot water heater is typically more energy-efficient and cost-effective in the long run.
Regarding the installation of a PowerPoint, it's best to get a quote from a licensed electrician to determine the exact cost. If you're located in SA, I would highly recommend Sharpe for their top-notch electrical and plumbing services. They can definitely help you out with the installation and ensure that everything is up to code.
The biggest expense will be roughing in a new larger diameter gas line from the meter to the HWS.
How much? I have no idea.