Is It Legal or Eligible Dual Nationalities to Apply Tourist Stream 600 from Foreign Passport

plastererJazz on 05/03/2023 - 08:25
Last edited 05/03/2023 - 08:27
Disclaimer

Yes, I also submitted enquires to expert services, keen to discuss this here to see if anyone here had or friends heard of have done this in the past.

The scenario is,

An individual has Australian and other country (N) citizenship that doesn't allow dual citizenship.

The goal is to enable this individual to travel to and from to country N without N knowing its Australian citizenship.

The assumption is

Leaving Australia to country N using country N passport should be fine as AU airport confirms the individual has the right to enter the country

The challenge is

Returning Australia from country N using country N passport will require a legal visa to enter Australia

The question is

Could this individual apply travel visa 600 from country N passport when it also hold Australian citizenship?

From homeaffairs website, there is no eligibility statement that AU citizen can't apply 600, unlike 155 or 157 that highlight AU citizen can't apply.

The only catch is the 8558 condition - Non Resident: Cannot stay for more than 12 months in any 18 month period.

Many thanks

Travel

Comments

  • boomramada on 05/03/2023 - 08:32
    +7

    You need to talk to a immigration lawyer

    • Frankensnore on 07/03/2023 - 07:24
      +1

      There is a way, I know it works, but there is a catch, read on below.

      Supposedly op is not aus citizen yet and about to.
      Just before you obtain your citizenship, you change your name, say from Liu Te Hua to Andy Law.
      Then your citizenship will be in new name, and your country N will think you are still Liu Te Hua. Your country N passport is Liu Te Hua, and aus passport is Andy Law.

      When travelling, you need intermediary country, usually Singapore. Travel there with aus passport as Andy law, and travel to county N as Liu Te Hua to county N. In separate bookings. Not transit. You have to pass the borders into Singapore. Why Singapore? They have visa free for almost the entire world.

      The borders of country N or Australia will not bother to check if you overstayed your Singapore visa free conditions, because it is none of their business.

      The country N will never know that Liu Te Hua has dual citizenship, even if they search databases, because the name change document is not required to be shared.

      How to renew country N passport? You have to do it in home land, or Singapore, don't try doing it in Australia.

      Andy Law can also enter country N with aus passport if you wish, because Andy do not have country N citizenship.

      So the catch here is changing names. But is that really a pain? Think about it! Work places can use preferred name, so you can choose not to change ur professional name. Your kids do not have to use your new last name, your Facebook can still be old name. You don't have to tell ur friends, Etc

      • ckria on 07/03/2023 - 20:23
        +1

        What about biometrics. Often people are required to do facial, iris or thumbprint.
        Also aren't they checking your entry and exit points?

        • Frankensnore on 07/03/2023 - 22:12

          Today, that won't happen for regular guy, but doing the above is risky as technology and country data sharing becomes more available. So the above is not fool proof forever.

          Country N is probably eastern countries like China, Indonesia, India, etc. These are countries that have their ideology fundamentally different to those western countries that allow dual citizenship.

          It is possible that the West and East work together share some data in future, but tbh, it would mostly benefit the East, and why would West want to do that?

          • [Deactivated] on 08/03/2023 - 07:36
            +2

            @Frankensnore:

            Country N is probably eastern countries like China, Indonesia, India, etc. These are countries that have their ideology fundamentally different to those western countries that allow dual citizenship.

            Australia previously prevented dual-citizenship migrants in the not so distant past when patriotism was a thing. Now it is a dirty word beaten down at the altar of internationalism. We changed and abandoned the traditional values that China, India, Indonesia, Philippines etc retain.

            Appreciate the solid knowledge though @OldDataGuy

  • mskeggs on 05/03/2023 - 08:33
    +12

    Why would you not re-enter Australia with your Australian passport?

    • foxmulder on 05/03/2023 - 08:55
      +2

      I think his movement from the origin country need to be recorded when entered and exit.

    • Hansi on 05/03/2023 - 09:20
      +5

      Often, when boarding for flights from another country you need proof of citizenship for AUS or visa before being allowed to board - agreement Aus has with other countries. As such OP would like to apply for as visa and when departing (N) show his visa and (N) passport, then when arriving Australia cross the boarder with their Aus passport.

      • mskeggs on 05/03/2023 - 10:25

        I guess this is trickier in these days of comprehensive databases, but in the past you just showed your local passport to immigration people of the local country and the destination one to airline staff concerned you were legal to fly.
        I suppose some countries might have strict checks about travelers leaving, but most are more interested in arrivals.

        • darkchoc on 07/03/2023 - 13:07
          +2

          We may be overestimating the "data matching" done by overseas countries.

          Furthermore, why would Australian government openly share sensitivite private info such as citizenship, passport numbers with third party countries who do not have as secure data laws as us?

      • wisdomtooth on 07/03/2023 - 13:06

        agreement Aus has with other countries.

        Nope, it's not other countries authorities that request to see Australian visa or passport; it's the airline, bc if the passenger gets here without Aussie passport or visa, he is sent back on the very same airline he came on.

    • plastererJazz on 05/03/2023 - 11:22
      +1

      Leaving country N requires evidence of right to enter Australia hence the visa on country N passport.

      • mskeggs on 05/03/2023 - 12:00
        +1

        I understand that, but is your concern that if you show them your Australian passport they will tie it back to you entering with your N passport?
        Is it viable for you to do the opposite altogether, and enter country N as a tourist showing your Australian passport - as you would if you were not a citizen.

        • dcep on 05/03/2023 - 12:21
          +4

          that's the 100% way to surrender citizenship,
          it'll get flagged in country N immigration showing up as their citizen bearing foreign passport.

          • djsweet on 05/03/2023 - 14:40

            @dcep: Depends on the country. I know a dual citizen that travels to their home country on their AU passport. Never been flagged.

          • corvusman on 06/03/2023 - 16:31

            @dcep: First country N immigration service should prove that John Smith with Australian passport is the same John Smith that has N-passport. They won’t be able to do that unless they have their fingerprints or some other biometrics and not all countries require that for both visitors and their own citizens.

            Unless we are talking about some sort of high profile person of international interest here, but that a totally different subject.

        • plastererJazz on 05/03/2023 - 16:40
          +1

          That's even riskier because countries that don't allow dual citizenship would require foreigners to obtain a visa. That means submitting all personal information and will lead to exposure of dual citizenship.

      • IM-Cheap on 06/03/2023 - 00:24
        -1

        Could you fly back through a country where no visa is required? Ie. If say it was indonesia, book a ticket to malaysia and then fly back to australia from there using AU passport?

        Not that I support this btw, I don't believe in australians having dual citizenship.

        • elanda on 06/03/2023 - 08:54
          +3

          Why don’t you believe in Australians having dual citizenship?

          • darkchoc on 07/03/2023 - 13:10

            @elanda: Because like the tooth fairy or the magic cosmic being in the sky, it requires faith.

        • Cookiescream on 07/03/2023 - 00:18

          I have triple citizenship 😆

          • elanda on 07/03/2023 - 09:14
            +1

            @Cookiescream: I’ve realised I’m eligible for a third too, and all three countries seem to allow triple. It’s going to take two-plus years to get the third though.

            • Cookiescream on 07/03/2023 - 09:45

              @elanda: @elanda i think it is worth it, specially not knowing whom can go on a war against whom.

              All my countries allow it as well. And when required I just play my passports accordingly.

              • [Deactivated] on 08/03/2023 - 07:50
                -2

                @Cookiescream:

                @IM-Cheap Not that I support this btw, I don't believe in australians having dual citizenship.
                @elanda Why don’t you believe in Australians having dual citizenship?
                @Cookiescream i think it is worth it, specially not knowing whom can go on a war against whom.

                The question answers itself economic opportunists selfishly abandoning their adopted country in it's time of need. Taking the benefits, but who refuse to pay the ultimate price when called upon - a country divided and weakened from within

                • Cookiescream on 08/03/2023 - 14:17
                  -1

                  @[Deactivated]: Well you can't choose where you are born or your family lineage. You can only play the deck you been given.

                  I should not have to die for your or anyone else anyway.

                  • [Deactivated] on 08/03/2023 - 21:10
                    -1

                    @Cookiescream: Australia must raise the stakes and change the deck - and not welcome selfish opportunists; but hey you are fulfilling the role set for you by subversives.

      • bunkr on 06/03/2023 - 14:20
        +1

        Leaving country N with Aus passport is 100% fraught with danger. The N country will record when their citizen enters and leaves.

        First time leaving country N, maybe they will not realise and it will be recorded that the citizen is still in country N. Next time the person flies to country N, you are very likely to get pullled in by the immigration asking when did you leave. And thats when eveything will unravel.

        I know because my original country doesn't allow dual citizenship. I thought about not declaring when I got Australian citizenship, but heard enough horror stories to not take a chance.

      • juki on 08/03/2023 - 07:46

        these days they seem to know you have multiple passports, i entered country c on passport a and after departing when i entered country b with passport b they asked me why i chop and change my passports during the trip. it must make them do paperwork they werent too keen about it.

  • parsimonious one on 05/03/2023 - 08:35
    +30

    Why does the “individual” think the rules of country “N” regarding dual nationality don’t apply to them?

    • john_conner on 07/03/2023 - 02:13
      +1

      Enjoys living dangerously? Why follow the rules when you can face penalties and limited consular assistance from the Australian government should things go south?

    • darkchoc on 07/03/2023 - 13:12
      +1

      It's up to country N to enforce. You don't have to agree with every law.

      They are an Aussie citizen bound by Aussie law.

      • parsimonious one on 07/03/2023 - 17:23
        +2

        True and a country N citizen bound by their law too

      • FirstWizard on 11/03/2023 - 09:13

        I don't think citizenship matters that much when it comes to most laws. Only the jurisdiction that matters.
        If you go to a country and commit an offence that is illegal in that country, but not in Australia, you will still be prosecuted. Australia may give you some consular assistance, that doesn't not give you immunity.

        When OP is in the country N most of the law of the land would apply to them when entering and leaving.

  • SBOB on 05/03/2023 - 08:46
    +6

    individual has Australian and other country (N) citizenship that doesn't allow dual citizenship.

    Well, technically they don't.
    It's up to country 'N' to whether your citizenship is valid or not, and claiming citizenship in another country would seem to have invalidated that.

  • upended on 05/03/2023 - 09:15
    +4

    Wait, I don’t understand.

    An individual has Australian and other country (N) citizenship that doesn't allow dual citizenship.

    If that individual is Australian and their original country N does not support dual citizenship, they would no longer be able to hold a passport from that country. They'll only have their Australian passport. The passport from country N becomes invalid as soon as they acquire Australian citizenship.

    In this case, the scenario you outline here is not possible. If anything, country N will now require that individual to apply for a visa to enter that country.

    • boomramada on 05/03/2023 - 10:20
      -3

      I thought individuals were required to surrender their original country passports. At the point of acquiring Australian citizenship/passport?

      EDIT : That was a question, after a simple google search, India and SL do require to surrender their original country passports.

      • trapper on 07/03/2023 - 18:46

        India and SL do require to surrender their original country passports.

        You could in most cases just apply for a new passport from the original country anyway.

      • FirstWizard on 11/03/2023 - 09:26

        SL do require to surrender their original country passports.

        SL does not require you to surrender the passport. You can keep it. However you should never use it. Because the citizenship it's tied to has ceased. Their law automatically strips you of its citizenship the minute you take an oath of allegiance to a different country without first petitioning to the minister as to why you should be allowed to keep the citizenship(which they do allow in certain circumstances). You can also apply to resume your citizenship later in life under other circumstances. And then suddenly that paperweight passport becomes active.

        That passport never gets cancelled on a database. You can use it in a 3rd country, or sometimes to enter SL if you're sneaky enough. However the day they put 2 and 2 together you and find out that you have travelled in a technically cancelled passport, I've heard that they will report your name to Interpol for travelling on a cancelled passport meaning immigration issues for the rest of your life.
        Not worth the risk, tourist visa is $30 that's good enough.

    • jaejae69 on 05/03/2023 - 12:00
      +5

      If we assume country “N” to be China, this is actually very possible. I know first hand multiple people holding Australian citizenship who simply never informed the Chinese authorities of this. They have managed multiple Chinese passport renewals etc. some even work in China full time as a citizen whilst hiding the fact that they are actually Australian.

    • Pidapipo on 06/03/2023 - 03:46

      I personally know people like that. An example is Japan which allows citizens born to a parent who holds a foreign nationality to acquire dual nationalities until they are major (18 year old). At that point they are supposed to pick one nationality and surrender the other. If the citizen is living overseas, that means reporting to the Japan embassy in that country, and they simply don’t.

  • Muzeeb on 05/03/2023 - 09:43
    +31

    Trying to outsmart the immigration system. That's going to end well.

    • djsweet on 05/03/2023 - 14:42
      +4

      They’re probably just trying not to get their citizenship in their home country shredded. Unfortunately this is the type of shiz many people face.

      • parsimonious one on 05/03/2023 - 14:49
        +5

        It seems OP sought citizenship in another country, knowing their original country doesn’t allow it and now want to keep original citizenship knowing it’s not allowed

        not sure why you feel bad for OP

        • CocaKoala on 06/03/2023 - 11:37
          +2

          I'm not entirely sure why someone will lunch vote you. In addition to what you've said so far, the OP is also attempting to circumvent immigration laws, which could end very badly for them.

    • darkchoc on 07/03/2023 - 13:17

      People have many different circumstances.

      Country N - with family and friends all there, it's just easier to be able to go back in emergencies and avoid the bureaucracy by not surrendering passport.

      Hardly anywhere in the world has immigration law and rules as strict as here. So easy to imagine that things end badly - but possibly it's not a big issue.

      I'm all for freedom of movement. It's not up to Australia to enforce overseas administration rules.

  • kanmen on 05/03/2023 - 10:19

    I think if it were 1978 and our immigration system wasn't run via computers then this could work but I don't know how they wouldn't realise that the person applying for a visa here already has residency rights.

  • deme on 05/03/2023 - 10:21
    +7

    You can enter Australia on your Australian Passport.

    However,

    The goal is to enable this individual to travel to and from to country N without N knowing its Australian citizenship.

    The issue is you can be detained in that country. Don't do it is my advice, it's absolutely stupid. The only situation where this would be entertained is if you were seeing refuge, but you are clearly coming back to the country you left so that's out.

    Here is a question:

    Why do you want citizenship of that other country, and, how do you know you still have it, because you don't anymore, how do you know that other country hasn't just cancelled your citizenship? Cancelling your citizenship of that country won't leave you stateless so it can be done easy.

    this individual

    Mate either it's for you, or you are conspiring with good old fashion evidence on a public forum so you might be asked if you ever visit "Country N" about hey.. these posts on OzBargain… what did you mean…

    Stop, Do not do this and if you ignore OzBargain and do it, please ask customs over there to post on OzBargain on your behalf.

  • HardQuiz on 05/03/2023 - 10:38
    +9

    Just go to a third country in between AU and country (N).

    Country (N) won’t know about the Australian citizenship as this person is leaving to a third country where he/she can enter visa free.

    Make sure to make 2 seperate airline bookings as some airport agents may require you to produce evidence of right of entry to your final destination, which in this case is Australia.

    Yes it’s an extra cost and hassle, but that’s a small price to pay to have an Aussie citizenship while also keeping your original citizenship.

    • poggers on 05/03/2023 - 11:33

      A small detail with this method is if the immigration officer in N is being thorough, they might question why OP (over)stays in the “visa free” country for so long. (most visafree offered by countries are only for a few months.) So depending on OP’s time spent away from N they might need to find a country to acquire PR.

  • jezzster on 05/03/2023 - 10:39
    +9

    I can't tell you whether country N will be able to identify your dual citizenship, but I can tell you that you won't be able to fly out of Australia on a foreign passport if you currently hold an Australian passport.

    Source: I hold dual passports and presented my British passport at immigration when departing Australia for London. The passport was rejected as I hold an Australian passport. (I had both passports with me so I was able to travel).

    • PissLUR on 05/03/2023 - 11:04
      -4

      Incorrect. No issue leaving on overseas passport.

      • 91rs on 08/03/2023 - 10:58

        Two weekends ago used the wrong passport to exit and the box went red and they came to take me to the desk, they would not process me out on my other PP, they said you use the AUS or don't' go.
        Same re-entering AUS.
        At the destination I used my "other" or first passport and they let me in / out without issue.

    • plastererJazz on 05/03/2023 - 11:23

      Did they tell you why?

      • jezzster on 05/03/2023 - 11:46
        +3

        They didn't go into specifics, but when they scanned my British passport it didn't work. I gave them my Aussie passport and they told me they told me I had to fly out on that when leaving the country. I was able to use my British passport when landing in the UK without any issues.

        • dcep on 05/03/2023 - 12:27
          +2

          Wow! i didn't know you could fly and land on different passport without trouble. That's crazy if it's true.

          • jezzster on 05/03/2023 - 13:18
            +3

            @dcep: There's advice about this on Smart Traveller

            "Australians should use their Australian passport when exiting or entering Australia. This includes dual nationals.

            You may experience issues returning to Australia on a foreign passport. For example, airlines may not allow you to board a plane to Australia without evidence of Australian citizenship or an Australian passport.

            If you're a dual national and have a passport from another country, you may choose to travel on your other passport once outside Australia."

          • parsimonious one on 05/03/2023 - 13:26
            +2

            @dcep: Yeah, it’s true, I’ve done it plenty of times without issue

            I’d image that’s how it works for most ppl with dual citizenship

            Australia advises to enter and exit on your Aussie pp, when arriving in Europe, they similarly prefer EU nationals to use their EU pp for entry and exit

            OPs issue is he is trying to hide the dual citizenship as “country N” forbids it

          • trex on 05/03/2023 - 14:02

            @dcep: It's not crazy but it's true (https://www.shegoesthedistance.com/travel-with-two-passports…)

          • trapper on 07/03/2023 - 18:59

            @dcep: Of course you do… You use the local passport because you're a citizen, otherwise you'd need to get a visa etc

            Even in a third party country, you just use which ever passport gives you the best visa terms.

        • JungliChilli on 06/03/2023 - 08:06

          This is incorrect. I've flown out without using my Aussie passport.

        • Drj55 on 06/03/2023 - 09:05
          +2

          I have also done this many times. Left Oz with Oz passport and landed in UK/Europe on UK passport. Now that UK has left the Euro union is not quite as useful.

          However, I have always flown back using my Oz passport, which is where OP might have difficulty.

        • trapper on 07/03/2023 - 18:57
          +1

          You probably didn't enter Australia the last time using your British passport.

          So there would be no record of your arrival, and no visa, so now you're technically a Brit who has been staying here illegally.

    • Kramo on 05/03/2023 - 13:32
      +1

      I have that scenario with both countries of my dual citizenship. I legally have to exit and enter Australia on my Australian passport, and legally have to exit and enter country B on country B's passport.

      Never had any issues with the two immigrations getting 'confused' that I technically never land anywhere foreign with my Australian passport.

      • plastererJazz on 05/03/2023 - 16:29
        +1

        The problem is that the airport in Country N will only issue boarding pass if the Country N passport has valid visa to Australia.

        • rave75 on 06/03/2023 - 13:57
          +1

          from my experience, the check in counter does the visa checking and you can "show" you have Oz passport. BUT at the immigration don't, they never asked what visa I was on anyway. Then again, safest to just do transit via Singapore.

          • plastererJazz on 06/03/2023 - 14:38

            @rave75: What I would image the moment showing other country passport in Country N airport counter will trigger immigration alert.

            I recently flew back from Japan, the air crew checked passport/visa to issue boarding pass.

            Travelling via Singapore poses the same challenge that this individual needs a visa on Country N passport to get the boarding pass to leaving Country N.

            • rave75 on 06/03/2023 - 15:53
              +2

              @plastererJazz: From Country N: Show your N passport when Leaving

              In Singapore: If transit, show your Oz passport when boarding for Oz. In this scenario you don't exit singapore immigration.

              If not transit (buying separate ticket is safest), you use N passport to exit. Then Oz passport at check-in counter. After that, use N passport at the gate (In singapore, you need to use the same passport during entry and exit). At boarding gate, show oz passport.

              In Oz, they require to use Oz passport to enter and exit. I tried to use N passport but they said I couldn't.

              Air crew is not immigration, they don't care if you have dual in a country who doesn't allow. Safe to show it to them. If I am buying ticket that transit to Singapore, In Country N, I always show OZ passport (not give, I never let the check in staff hold my OZ passport). It never trigger any immigration alert because as I mentioned, airline is not immigration, their system is not connected to immigration system. Their job is to make sure you have valid visa for Airlines purposes and not immigration purposes. SQ staff said this to me, they are actually trained to cater for dual citizens flying with them. During Covid where in N country they are required to physically stamp "Transit Only" on my boarding pass to Singapore, the staff said don't worry, we won't stamp it here, after you pass immigration, the boarding staff at the gate will then stamp it. They also said be cool during immigration and never show my OZ passport there and also my 2nd boarding pass (Singapore to OZ).

              But nowdays, if the $ difference is not huge, I buy separate tickets, one from N to Singapore and another from Singapore to Oz. This way the check in counter at N won't even ask.

              Then again, maybe there is a slight chance where it is not safe. There is always a chance where the air crew can get some $$ for reporting dual to the immigration.

              Source: 10 years of experience.

  • PissLUR on 05/03/2023 - 11:01

    Wow. This is next level.

  • Gunnar on 05/03/2023 - 11:03
    +1

    I look forward to your, sorry the individual’s, next post seeking help about getting out of a detention centre

  • JIMB0 on 05/03/2023 - 12:33
    +1

    So you want the best of both worlds?

  • ilmenite on 05/03/2023 - 14:32
    +2

    Recently, my partner and kids travelled to my partners home country on Aus passports. On arriving my partner was asked whether she had dual citizenship (which is allowed in that country), she said she did and was told she was supposed to enter and exit on local passport. Her local passport had expired, so, after some discussion, she was allowed to enter on her Aus passport but told she couldn't leave unless she presented her local passport, if she presented her Aus passport she'd be fined and refused exit. Fortunately, she was able to get a new local passport in a few days. The lovely kicker was that the kids were also supposed to have local passports too for entry and exit as they are the offspring of a person of that nationality and therefore citizens. Fortunately, they didn't enforce that bit of their immigration act.
    Put simply, it seems to be a general requirement that you exit and enter a country on that country's passport if you have one.

    • parsimonious one on 05/03/2023 - 14:38
      +5

      That’s not really OPs issue or question

      OP is trying to get an Aus visa from their other country of citizenship to hide the fact they have dual citizenship with Aus which is not allowed by their other country

      OP seems to want the benefits of the other country but isn’t willing to abide by the laws of said country

  • Eeples on 06/03/2023 - 04:32
    +1

    I think there may be an issue obtaining Australian consulate assistance in any country you fly into if you do not use the Australian passport when entering that country.

    • gromit on 06/03/2023 - 08:26

      not at all, countries that don't recognise dual citizenship it isn't an option and it has no affect on your consular access.

    • ganchan on 06/03/2023 - 08:40

      Australian consular assistance is available to Australian citizens overseas. There is no qualifier about the passport on which they travel.

      If you're actually in the country of your second citizenship, then you may have a hard time.

      • kelvinate on 06/03/2023 - 16:41

        it does actually.

        A few countries listed on the smartravel website specifically says this.

        • ganchan on 06/03/2023 - 18:56

          A few countries listed on the smartravel website specifically says this.

          Which ones?

  • Ridiculous Panda on 06/03/2023 - 06:19
    +2

    Even if you decide to travel through a third country as advised above, it will be funny if they search you and find an Australian passport with your name and photo on it. You might be featured on the poster of the new season of banged up abroad.

    • gromit on 06/03/2023 - 10:00
      +1

      Not aware of any country where it is illegal to be a dual citizen (perhaps there are some?) and hence have a passport, it is just quite a few countries don't recognise the second citizenship. My wife always travels with both passports.

      • eek on 06/03/2023 - 10:40
        +1

        For starters, China! Yes OP will have to hide the fact they have dual nationalities. It will be even harder if they have the same name on both passports too. Might be slightly easier if they had an english name like "Alfred" on their Australian passport and a name in their native language on their country N one.

        • gromit on 06/03/2023 - 16:40

          China doesn't recognise dual citizenship, my understanding is for China you lose your chinese citizenship if you become a citizen elsewhere. So the only issue there would be you are illegally using a chinese passport as it would need to be surrendered or invalidated as you are NOT a dual citizen. Hiding your citizenship is probably a far faster way of getting thrown in gaol.

      • MrFrugalSpend on 06/03/2023 - 22:53

        https://www.tesz.in/guide/dual-citizenship-india#:~:text=The….

        "Holding an Indian passport/acquiring an Indian passport/traveling on Indian passport after acquisition of foreign citizenship constitutes an offense under the Indian Passport Act, 1967, and attracts penalties. '

        The Government of India has prescribed imposition of penalty on a graded scale, depending on number of trips made on Indian passport after acquiring foreign nationality, for the violation of Passport Rules and retention of Indian Passport for more than 3 years after acquiring of foreign nationality."

        =<3 years not used = $0;
        <3 years and used Indian Passport to Travel = Rs10,000 per trip;
        More than 3 Years retention = Rs10,000 + Fines of Rs10,000 per trip used
        Renewal of passport Rs25,000 and Rs10,000 per trip
        up to Rs50,000 cap.

        … So it's like a $180 - $900 fine… many people would risk it for that

  • Hardwood198 on 06/03/2023 - 07:38
    +8

    Not legal advice, so ymmv. Have a few friends who have dual citizenship and face the same issue.

    There is no "central database of citizenships" that checks if you are a citizen of so-and-so country.

    Two ways to travel

    1. Go via a 3rd country (safer). Travel first to a nearby country on the aussie passport. Enter said country on aussie passport. Then enter country N on country N's passport, and vice versa when travelling to Aus.

    3rd country won't care if you are a dual citizen.

    1. Travel with both passports, using them at different points.

    Aus-> N country
    Book ticket on Aus Passport. Present Aus passport on Aus side. Present N passport when entering N. Australia wont care.

    N -> Aus

    Book ticket on N passport. At the check in desk (airline counter) present aus passport to prove entry rights to Aus. At the departure immigration counter present N passport. Leave N on N passport.

    On reaching Aus use Aus passport to clear Aus immigration.

    • rave75 on 06/03/2023 - 14:08
      +2

      Can confirm both works. Mind you, some airlines like Singapore Airlines trained their employees to cater for dual citizenship, so it is perfectly safe to show them your oz passport at check in. Meanwhile, in one ocassion with other airline, they were adamant to take my OZ passport and call someone.

      When transit via 3rd country like Singapore, don't show your 2nd boarding pass to Oz to the immigration. Immigration doesn't ask for your "visa" but somehow if they scan your boarding pass and make an enquiry to the airline, they can know that your final destination is OZ. So the safest way I think is to book two different tickets, one to the transit country and the second from the transit country to Australia. That way, check in counter won't ask for your Oz visa, and the immigration can't suss out where is your final destination. Downside is, it is a hassle to take your baggage, get out and get back in the transit country.

      Note: This happened to someone I know, she arrived in her birth country using her Oz passport but somehow her birth country knew she is a citizen in that country as well. I suspect they matched her name and dob.

      Also, make sure your N country passport do not expire while you are in Oz. Because you do not ever want to renew your N country passport in Australia. N country consulate in OZ will ask what is your visa for staying and if you say you have Oz passport then you are doomed.

    • xdigger on 06/03/2023 - 17:07

      Buying 2 one-way flight tickets instead of a return trip overseas, is usually more expensive

  • Hedgehog on 06/03/2023 - 08:18
    +1

    My understanding is that if you have an OZ passport you must use it when entering or leaving OZ. You can use whichever other passport to enter and leave another country though.

    So if you have a UK passport you leave OZ on your OZ passport, enter UK on your UK passport (because it is easier than using your OZ passport) and leave UK on the UK passport arriving home in OZ on your OZ passport. That was our understanding when we were given dual citizenship - but things do change.

  • gromit on 06/03/2023 - 08:24

    my wife is from a country that does not recognise dual citizenship. Really it is quite simple. You present your foreign passport at point of exit in foreign country and use your Australian Passport once you hit Australian border. If the Airline asks for proof you will be permitted in you present them your Australian Passport as well. My wife literally did this 2 weeks ago.

    • xdigger on 06/03/2023 - 17:07

      I'm guessing your wife had to buy 2 one-way flight tickets instead of a return trip, which are usually more expensive?

      • gromit on 06/03/2023 - 17:15

        not at all. We did buy separate tickets this time but that was purely because of uncertainty on her return date, but we usually do return flights, the airlines seem fine with it.

        • xdigger on 06/03/2023 - 17:20

          When she enters the passport details to buy her return flights on the airlines website, which passport did she use? Does the answer change if the first flight is out of the foreign country or Australia? My partner is dual citizen in a similar situation. Cheers.

          • gromit on 06/03/2023 - 17:20
            +2

            @xdigger: you don't need to enter passport details to purchase tickets. you can put the details in for the flights after the fact. from memory last time she just put her foreign passport details in.

    • lgacb08 on 06/03/2023 - 18:58

      There's differences between not recognising and not allowing dual citizenship, the later depending on their enforcement will take steps to strip you off your original citizenship, it can be from not allowing you to renew passport to straight shredding off your passport and make sure you got a temporary visa before escorting you on a plane with a few years ban easy so you need to interpret the wording carefully.

  • ganchan on 06/03/2023 - 08:36
    +4

    Is it legal to get a tourist visa to enter Australia if you're an Australian citizen? No, it probably is not.

    The Australian govt offers an Australian Declaratory Visa for people in the predicament you describe. Look it up on the relevant website.

    It's used heavily by Australian-Malaysian dual nationals (and others I'm sure).

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