What's The Dealio with High Fidelity Audio and How Can a Plebeian Get a Taste?

• 

  harshbdmmaster718 on 25/03/2023 - 19:26

  +3

  Services like Tidal promises an elevated audio experience, and I've no idea what on earth that means, curious to sign up for a trial.

  If it means anything. Standards in digital audio have gone through the roof so what the "average dumb consumer" get's these days with a decent pair of bluetooth headphones is more than good enough.
  e.g. DAC's got small and cheap and even tiny ones in Bluetooth headphones or Apple's USB-C to 3.5mm dongle measure transparent and offer what 95% of people will require for their gear. Bluetooth codec's (the better ones, just avoid SBC) and in the past "MP3 compression" are resource efficient and compression errors are not audible to majority of consumers.

  The only real benefit one would experience from uncompressed audio (such as what Premium streaming offers) is if you have above average hearing and can hear above 16kHz or so. Usually that top end of the frequency response is lost to compression (everything above 15kHz is cut off). But do yourself a test with wired headphones and listen to a frequency sweep from 20Hz to 20kHz, most people's hearing will stop around 15kHz. I have tested it and I think I stopped hearing anything before 15kHz, more like 14kHz.
  If you can hear above this range you will experience some extra "clarity" but there are some people who can hear above this range still say the difference isn't that great.

  That 5% who claim they can hear a difference or who know enough to be confident they are getting their money's worth are going to be spending 1000's of dollars over the years chasing a tiny perceived improvement. Do you want to be one of them? Not me, I strongly believe in diminishing returns (the bigger the next jump in price, the smaller the improvement) and the value for money is just not there.

  Edit: Also a tip. If you are listening by yourself like most do, comparing new vs new. Headphones are better value than a speaker setup.

  • 

    minty on 25/03/2023 - 19:56

    What's the significance of wired and whatever is lost is that bridge-able or not? My phone/PC is on Bluetooth 5.0 so whatever the limit on that is what I'm getting. I turned on Atmos on my phone and all I noticed (just through phone speaker) is that sounds seems a bit more padded, not really sure how to eloquently explain it.

    With directions of everything going wireless, and, the average Joe not wanting to sell a kidney, and, diminishing returns and all, what's a fair price to part ways with to get a NOTICEABLE experience. Besides specific services which provides a "better" experience, say Youtube, Spotify, the usual suspects, am I missing out?

    I've eyeballed Edifier speakers over the years and they get plenty of praises for the masses, just never pulled the trigger.

    • 

      harshbdmmaster718 on 25/03/2023 - 20:42

      +2

      What's the significance of wired and whatever is lost is that bridge-able or not? My phone/PC is on Bluetooth 5.0 so whatever the limit on that is what I'm getting.

      Bluetooth version is not the best indicator of the quality of Bluetooth audio, these days you won't find many devices below Bluetooth 4.2 (which is just one generation behind 5.0). Bluetooth version upgrades usually add improvements in signal strength (range) and power efficiency. While in the past it is true "newer more recent" versions of Bluetooth added better codec's (codec is the type of compression that's used for audio playback) mostly you should focus on looking at the supported codec's. e.g. you can get a device with bluetooth 5.0, but no support for specific codec's.

      The significance of wired that I mentioned is just for the hearing test. I mistakenly thought you had WH-1000XM4's which are over ear headphones with the option of listening wired with 3.5mm jack, not WF-1000XM4's so I thought you could quickly just plug in wired mode and do a frequency sweep. But not really an issue since like most people and myself, you will probably stop hearing anything (just silence) above 13kHz to 14kHz.

      what's a fair price to part ways with to get a NOTICEABLE experience.

      That or recommending a particular product is not really an easy question to answer. Because we all hear differently and have different preferences. And as you can probably tell, my first recommendation won't be "buy this, it's better".
      WF-1000XM4's are not exactly bottom of the barrel. They have a 8.3 in Bass accuracy, 8.2 in Mids and the only weakness being the treble at 2.9 on Rtings. https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sony/wf-1000xm4-tr…
      One quick improvement you could try would be by applying custom EQ to the Sony's to bring out the treble region (they have EQ in the App right?). It says here they save the EQ settings on the headphones when you stream audio from your phone the EQ will keep it's effect. https://www.sony.com.au/electronics/support/wireless-headpho…

      A starting point could be this custom EQ recommendation from Rtings which should be backed up by measurements. https://www.rtings.com/assets/pages/YDqs641R/custom-eq-large…
      Listen to them with the custom EQ for awhile, until you start noticing small annoyances then you can work on correcting them slowly.

      Later on I tweak it more as I go and usually am able to find an improvement which is more than I would expect for $0 spent.
      I find this cheat sheet very helpful, so after awhile see if you can translate what you are hearing and make your own improvements to the custom EQ. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0583/4335/8653/products/Pr…

      • 

        outlander on 26/03/2023 - 12:41

        Well put.

        To add to the confusion, even what's 'better' is hard to define. Take me for instance. I personally don't like audio that's too high quality, because to me a song is like a hamburger: meant to be squashed together and consumed in a delicious undefinable mix. But for other people, 'better' means more defined and precise. They like to be able to hear the various components; clear vocals, all the various percussion instruments, drums, electronic samples etc. The seem to like to be able to focus on each individual part of the song and discern it clearly. Now to me that takes the fun out of it, but there you go. Different strokes.

        I reckon there's many people out there like me, who get some money, upgrade to the high quality stuff because the salesmen said it was the best, and actually end up enjoying it less than the crappy speakers they had before. Certainly would go a long way to explaining how Beats headphones became such a big thing

        • 

          harshbdmmaster718 on 26/03/2023 - 15:50

          +1

          @outlander: The thing is many people mistake "different" for "better". Whether the shiny new pair of Bluetooth headphones has more bass, or has more of a treble boost it's going to sound different and many people's minds can be tricked into thinking it's automatically "better".
          It can also be as simple as increased volume level (loudness). You put your shiny new expensive headphones on and start playing your favorite song, in the first few seconds you don't get that "hit" you expected so you turn the volume up, now it sounds "so much better" but this experience is common increased volume brings increased enjoyment you can achieve this with your "old" headphones.

          I reckon there's many people out there like me, who get some money, upgrade to the high quality stuff because the salesmen said it was the best, and actually end up enjoying it less than the crappy speakers they had before.

          Honestly it's not just the salesmen. These days in many hobbies (not just HiFi) most of the community members sounding like salesmen is very common.

          Whenever you see descriptive words such as "the sound is punchier and more detailed accurate" or "I am hearing things I never heard before!" most likely they are just experiencing the dopamine hit from their new gear. If you really cared about improving sound you would start by working with what you already have, and learning more about how to improve things instead seeking the opinions of others on "which of the next best expensive $$$$ purchase will solve your problems".

    • 

      harshbdmmaster718 on 26/03/2023 - 16:07

      I've eyeballed Edifier speakers over the years and they get plenty of praises for the masses, just never pulled the trigger.

      Sorry I forgot to address this last line.

      Yeah I have noticed too that Edifier speakers seem to get praises here in ozbargain deals.
      It's good to balance things out though, so I will direct you to a user who posted in forums about their experience with their $450 to $500 S2000 Mk II's.
      https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/737325

      TLDR: In their experience there was not much perceivable difference to their old Logitech Z623's. In fact the Edifier's did worse in some areas such as spoken word. I vaguely recall them following up about using the Edifier's in a larger room, but I can't find that comment. I believe they said something along the lines of the Edifier's sounding slightly more "expansive" and room filling in a large room. While the Logitech's sounded more clear and direct. In either case they concluded the extra few hundred dollars more in price of the Edifier's was not worth it.

      • 

        harshbdmmaster718 on 26/03/2023 - 18:48

        If going to buy something Edifier, I would probably recommend the S351DB for around $300 to $350. https://www.ozbargain.com.au/product/edifier-s351db
        Even if you think the jump in SQ is not that big, you will at least get a boost in cinematic type experience thanks to the included subwoofer.

        What's the next step up?? Likely buying into a separate subwoofer, amp, bookshelf speakers. But brand new that will cost you in the realm of $500+ in entry level gear with not that big a jump from the Edifier's as you might expect.

• 

  coxjon on 25/03/2023 - 19:32

  I believe the Tidal trial isn't high fidelity anyway. I tried to have a listen once but only the regular quality is included.

• 

  ahoihoi on 25/03/2023 - 19:34

  It depends on the recording, but generally even flac (uncompressed cd quality) will sound better. Generally you initially hear it as being more detailed and crisper.

  The 24-bit high bit rate (96hz, 192hz) you hear it more when its loud.

  Not sure about hearing it on something like UE megaboom, but you might be able to hear the difference on the WF-1000XM4.

  It is harder to notice the difference going up, but going down you notice it more…

  • 

    Keplaffintech on 25/03/2023 - 20:48

    Generally you initially hear it as being more detailed and crisper.

    placebo if anything. if you want it to sound more 'detailed and crisper', just turn the treble up 1 click. I've never met someone that can reliably pick out 320 kbps vs wav, and they certainly wouldn't be able to do it listening to it through two different sources (or with 2 different EQ setups).

• 

  Jimothy Wongingtons on 25/03/2023 - 20:34

  Back around 2015, I was rocking a Sony NWZ-A15, dt770, and some flac rips, and idk it was alright I guess. Maybe I didn’t dump enough $$$ on it to get why the fuss on high fidelity.

  These days have Apple Music as part of my APPLE one sub, which features some high res masters as well as apple classical in a few days which will markets itself as being one of the ultimate one stop sources for highest audio quality and comprehensive library. And use wh1000xm5 or AirPod pros. Idk good enough for me.

  • 

    Kangal on 25/03/2023 - 22:00

    What does Pam use?

• 

  rumblytangara on 26/03/2023 - 00:28

  What's the objective here, do you 1) want to experience high quality audio (and are prepared to buy some gear)?

  Or are you 2) asking if a subscription for high quality streaming will result in better audio?

  1 is simply, some reasonably affordable gear will kick the daylights out of the little bluetooth boombox and the Sony NC headphones. It won't be as portable though- e.g. wired and open cup headphones.

  2 is pointless- higher quality streaming miiight be discernible if you had gear that could resolve it (which the existing stuff will not).

• 

  sumyungguy on 26/03/2023 - 00:29

  +1

  If you're happy with the sound quality of TV speakers and a UE Megaboom, I expect you won't notice an upgrade. We don't all perceive sound the same way and your preferred musical genre is also hugely relevant

• 

  AustriaBargain on 26/03/2023 - 04:33

  There is a scene for people who rip vinyls using high end setups. Honestly they do sound good, but I think a big part of it is the particular vinyls they rip happen to have really good mastering. Probably the lossless music on Apple Music would sound just as good if it were mastered the same way. The same album can have different masterings across different release on vinyl, different masterings across different versions of CDs. I think the biggest thing I noticed from any good high def album on any format is that it sounds better at very high volume than standard version of the same album.

  But things are changing. Apple Music is getting all new masters of albums, a lot of them in spatial audio which sounds good even through stereo speakers. Things are changing quicker now in music audio than they have since the invention of stereo sound imo. Surround sound is becoming a thing finally and this time it'll stick because Apple sets trends, Apple dictates what people want far better than the boffins or marketing people at JVC or RCA ever could.

• 

  djsweet on 26/03/2023 - 12:22

  Idc what anyone says. Apple Music with AirPods sounds noticeably better than Spotify with AirPods. I think it’s cos the audio is decompressed at the airpod rather than the phone.

  So yeah, compression does play a part. And so does everything in between the audio source and your ears. For a bang for buck setup, I am content with iPhone, Apple Music, Airpod Pro. I also have a decent Hi-Fi system for vinyl and cds which sounds amazing, but $$$.

• 

  dcep on 26/03/2023 - 13:00

  I'm not an audiophile but that 2x2w speakers on TV/monitors are horrendous.

  As for headphones, i missed the sound from Koss ksc-75. $100 Sennheiser cheapies don't even come close.

  As for the source , i can't hear much difference from different bit rate quality.

• 

  jk82 on 28/03/2023 - 08:46

  You need better equipment first. You won't notice any difference using your current Sony WF-1000XM4, UE BOOM or TV speakers. If you want better sound buy better headphones or speakers.

  An analogy would be like saying - I want to subscribe to uncompressed 4K ultimate colour Netflix, but then watching it on an old 720p monitor from 10 years ago - you're not going to see the difference there, but if you got a new 4k OLED tv, even shitty youtube would look better …ok well maybe not youtube but you get my point :)

  If you're genuinely after better sound I'd recommend studio monitors for speakers or reference headphones (even the cheapest ones)
  https://www.storedj.com.au/studio-gear/studio-monitors
  https://www.storedj.com.au/headphones/studio-monitoring-head…

  all your audio will sound better with this. then if you want to 1-up it again you can go with lossless audio, although I find that's pretty unnecessary these days.