Advice on Not at Fault Repair with Insurance

drup on 23/04/2023 - 22:43
Last edited 24/04/2023 - 10:56 by 1 other user

Hi everyone, thank you for taking the time out of your day in reading about my situation.

Current insurer Budget Direct with choice of repairer.
At fault party insurer AAMI.
My vehicle Volvo XC60 (2020)

My vehicle rear drivers side quarter panel was hit causing the metal body dint and rear bar damage. Dash cam obtained and determined not at fault.

As per previous post each repairer questioned me why I chose to claim with my insurer. I won't expand further as it has been discussed in previous thread.

I lodged claim with my insurer not at fault. All details accepted and confirmed not at fault. Now to deal with a repairer.

Took it to a prestige repairer and quoted $12k to replace everything including car hire.

Budget insurance rejected and recommended another insurer. I didn't think much of it but their repairer has come back with a $4k job.

I asked for the repair sheet and their repairer is just patching and blending everything up. Nothing is being replaced new.

My questions
Shouldn't I get everything replaced not repaired since I'm not at fault? Why would I repair and be left with an inferior result? I never knew this was how insurance worked with choice of repairer. After reading the pds I can see the insurer always has final say on repair or replace. Disappointing.

A previous suggestion was to claim from at fault party. I contacted AAMI and they simply said they won't accept my claim unless their customer lodges a claim. How is this also possible? If a at fault party never claims where does that leave the victim?

Any advice?

Thank you.

Automotive Car Car Insurance Insurance SUV Volvo

Comments

Unorthodox on 23/04/2023 - 23:05

What's the actual damage like - does it warrant a replacement job? Have you gotten a second quote for the repairs?

What is the hire car cost breakdown from the $12k? And for how long?

Even if comes down to escalating it up the chain, it is about what is reasonable and actually having a concise summary of the events and reasoning behind what you want - your posts provide neither.
drup on 24/04/2023 - 00:01

My quote from my preferred repairer 12k for a week's work car hire is on top of this cost.

Budget directs recommended repairer (the 2nd quote) is 4k with no car hire. But I assume they will organise It at extra cost.

The damage does appear superficial visually. But metal quarter panel has impact and rear bar has lost some paint. Wheels also scuffed.

I could see how 12k could be reached if replacing everything compared to 4k being reasonable if repairing. My question was more specifically about if.im. Not at fault should I be accepting a repair over replacement?

Thank you for taking time to reply!

Update::
In relation to reasonableness and concise summary, I'm not sure I know what you mean my friend. Could you elaborate?
lachhelix on 24/04/2023 - 00:03

+1

Get 3 of your own different quotes and give them to Budget imo
- drup on 24/04/2023 - 00:10
  
  I was hoping my quoting days were behind me but I think you may be right friend.
CaptainHoltisDad on 24/04/2023 - 00:13

+2

Some snippets from the PDS below. Your gripe seems to be that you think the insurer is contractually obligated to bring your car back to "as new" condition which isn't the case. Seems to clear to me that the insurer is following the rules stated in your PDS.

Re: Choice of Repairer option -

review the quote to ensure: – it is competitive, based on the reasonable cost to repair the car"

However, if we consider a repairer's quotation is not competitive, or that the repairs would
not be completed to a satisfactory standard, we may decide not to authorise repairs and
offer you the option of: having the car repaired by an alternative repairer chosen by us, or
l paying you the reasonable cost to satisfactorily repair the car

When determining the reasonable cost to satisfactorily repair the car, we will consider:
l the method of repairs that will, as much as possible, return the car to the condition it
was in immediately before the damage occurred

Our duty is to return the car to the condition it was in immediately before the damage
occurred.
- drup on 24/04/2023 - 00:23
  
  Yes you are correct. I read the pds before my OP and was very disappointed. They are appearing to be inline with their policy, It just didn't pass my pub test so to speak.
  
  Thank you for your support friend!
bemybubble on 24/04/2023 - 06:58

+7

Don’t get me wrong op. But for an $80k car there is no way I’d insure with budget direct. As the saying goes. You get what you pay for…
- drup on 24/04/2023 - 07:09
  
  Thank you friend. I gave certainly learned my lesson now.
  - bemybubble on 24/04/2023 - 07:27
    
    Yep. Do yourself a favour. Find a good broker. Policy wording broader and they will $h!tsling this for you
Hellfire on 24/04/2023 - 08:38

A previous suggestion was to claim from at fault party. I contacted aami and they simply said they won't accept my claim unless their customer lodges a claim. How is this also possible? If a at fault party never claims where does that leave the victim?

Claiming from the at fault party doesn't mean that you can claim on their insurance directly. They still need to make a claim themselves. Once that occurs you can deal with their insurance company.

The way it works in practice is that you contact the at fault party either informally or via a letter of demand. They have the choice to pay, ignore, contest, or claim with their insurance.

Ultimately if they refuse to pay then you need to take them to court. This is why its recommended to have your own insurance so that you can get your car fixed quickly and with little hassle.
- kerfuffle on 24/04/2023 - 09:41
  
  +5
  
  OP does have their own insurance. They just have a crap insurer
  - JimmyF on 24/04/2023 - 10:13
    
    +1
    
    They just have a crap insurer
    
    To be fair they are called BUDGET direct…. It was pretty clear they are a crap insurer from the start and don't try to hide it.
    
    OP was just 'cheap', $80k plus 4wd, cheapest insurance they can get.
    
    After reading many threads on here, I wouldn't even entertain a quote from the 'budget' insurance companies on offer. They all seem near useless when you need them.
    - Nugs on 26/04/2023 - 12:20
      
      +1
      
      it's a bit like putting a $1 case on a $1000 phone
      .
apu on 24/04/2023 - 09:52

+1

"Choice of repairer" is a bit of a scam I reckon as ultimately it's subject to the condition they will not accept a quote if it's "not competitive". So basically they will still revert back to their own cheaper quotes from their preferred repairers (because generally preferred repairers give cheaper estimates as they are on the company's preferred panel (pardon the pun) of repairers.

To answer your second question - you can argue for replacement of certain parts on the question of say structural integrity, but ultimately the insurer's obligation is to return the car to you in the condition before the accident - if it's re-sprayed and looks good, how can you tell if it's second hand panels? There is nothing about "new for old". Again, this is a great scam from the insurer as they say "but we guarantee the work for infinity years anyway (irrespective of second hard parts), if you use our repair network".
- netjock on 24/04/2023 - 10:26
  
  -2
  
  "Choice of repairer" is a bit of a scam
  
  Exactly what happens with a race to the bottom (pricing) but also the fact that cars are getting more expensive (so is labor for repairs).
  
  Read an article about how EVs are getting written off. In part due to batteries being part of the structure (and also hard to remove / replace / repair). Not a good trend.
  - JimmyF on 24/04/2023 - 11:28
    
    Read an article about how EVs are getting written off. In part due to batteries being part of the structure
    
    Nothing to do with being a EV as such. Generally if a car is hit hard enough to damage the battery pack, then an ICE car would have had enough damage to the sub frame that would have caused it to be written off as well. The battery pack is stronger than any ICE sub frame.
    
    People just love to find things about EVs to complain about, like they should be some magical car. No one complains about the ICE cars being written off all the time from crashes.
    
    (and also hard to remove / replace / repair). Not a good trend.
    
    LOL structural packs can be removed easily if they have to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXpfU6I_T3w
    
    Just because they are called structural, doesn't mean they are not removal, it means they make up the strength of the car. Just like windscreens are classed as structural in a lot of cars nowadays.
    - netjock on 24/04/2023 - 13:53
      
      Nice to see your profile pic checks out.
      
      No one complains about the ICE cars being written off all the time from crashes
      
      Very different if you write off a $20k Kia Piccanto with a tank of fuel compared to a $60k EV with lifetime of battery (noted sometime it can be harvested and put to use converting other cars)
      
      Watched the video I'd be worried about any twisting would mean the pack won't come down and how to you remove it without bending the edges and then beating it back into shape to put it back.
      
      If you had it on a hoist and took out the pack to fix, does it stay up in the hoist? If not then how do you push it around to a parking position while the pack is fixed? If you need to replace the pack: time it would take to take off the seats and then remount them? Lot of labor 13:33 where taking the top cover off will destroy the cover.
      
      This Munro on taking apart the 4680 pack, they call it long and painful
      
      Not necessarily a ICE absolutist but I think a lot of people lack practical understanding of how things would work. It sure makes it easier to manufacture.
      
      Containers revolutionised logistics but nobody made them structural elements to ships, planes or semi trailers for good reason.
      - JimmyF on 24/04/2023 - 14:11
        
        @netjock:
        
        Very different if you write off a $20k Kia Piccanto with a tank of fuel compared to a $60k EV with lifetime of battery (noted sometime it can be harvested and put to use converting other cars)
        
        Not different at all, both are written off, both are paid out. That is why you have insurance. Even $80k ICE cars crash and get written off.
        
        I also don't see what price has to do with it. If the OP $80k ICE car was hit hard enough, it to would be written off. Just like a EV. A ICE engine costs as much as a battery does, your ICE gearbox also is pretty crazy priced.
        
        Most ICE cars are written off if they run into something front on hard enough to damage the engine. Again, no one seems to think this is 'crazy' but dare a EV battery be damaged in a crash and cause it to be written off, the world ends.
        
        Watched the video I'd be worried about any twisting would mean
        
        Don't open your ICE car doors then when it is on a hoist then if you are worried about twisting. Again, its not a every day thing to remove the battery, just like its not a every day thing to remove the ICE from a car. But it can be done with special tools and setups, just like they have special tools and setups for ICE removal.
        
        Not necessarily a ICE absolutist but I think a lot of people lack practical understanding of how things would work. It sure makes it easier to manufacture.
        
        Which you also fall into for EVs. ICE cars are the current defacto standard, it doesn't mean they are better or easier to make. Bit like when the car came around and horses had been the defacto mode of transport. Why would you buy a car that needs fuelling, oil changes, breaks down all the time as back then ICE cars broke down a LOT. Oh and you could raise a horse yourself in the paddock outside, can't do that with a car!
        
        Containers revolutionised logistics but nobody made them structural elements to ships, planes or semi trailers for good reason.
        
        LOL that is because they are taken on and off the ship at every port. Last time I looked, people are not removing their EV battery when they get home or their windscreens or their petrol tanks. Shipping containers are cargo, and just like cargo in a ICE/EV you put it in and take it out at will.
        
        Airplane wings are fuel tanks, they are also structural elements to the craft. Do you have a problem with them at all? Its ok if you can't afford a EV yet or don't like them, that is your choice, but you don't need crazy FUD statements to make yourself feel better about it.
        
        netjock on 24/04/2023 - 14:27
        
        @JimmyF: Just wanted to see how far your dreaming goes.
        
        Not different at all, both are written off, both are paid out. That is why you have insurance. Even $80k ICE cars crash and get written off.
        
        Chicken and the egg. You need to come up with $20k for the Piccanto and $80k for the EV then get insurance. There is a barrier to entry, that is where I was coming from. You already fast forward to the end.
        
        Don't open your ICE car doors then when it is on a hoist then if you are worried about twisting
        
        Twisting from accident impact. Opening a door would do nothing for twisting. Again you misunderstand the sentence.
        
        I highly question whether you have a problem understanding rather than arguing because you can argue pretty well. It is just understand that is the problem.
        
        LOL that is because they are taken on and off the ship at every port. Last time I looked, people are not removing their EV battery when they get home or their windscreens or their petrol tanks. Shipping containers are cargo, and just like cargo in a ICE/EV you put it in and take it out at will.
        
        Again you miss the point. Because we don't have mobile phones with removable batteries today does not mean we didn't have them in the past. The same with laptops. It was more of a commercial decision to make slimmer phones and slimmer laptops to the detriment of repair ability. Exactly the same problem with EVs - it is a money decision to make it cheaper to manufacturer but not to repair or replace to the detriment of the consumer.
        
        Consumer companies will feed you anything and you'd take it.
        
        JimmyF on 24/04/2023 - 15:20
        
        @netjock:
        
        There is a barrier to entry, that is where I was coming from. You already fast forward to the end.
        
        I'm not really sure what your point is, most ICE cars are way over $20k. Drive.com.au reports the average new car sale price in Australia is $50k. Far cry from your $20k claim.
        
        There are many $80k ICE cars around, aka like the OP Volvo. So if you are trying to spin that a $80k car is something special and privileged, it isn't. The Kia Piccanto isn't the peoples car you make it out to be. Sure its one of the CHEAPEST cars to buy new. But thats about it.
        
        Twisting from accident impact. Opening a door would do nothing for twisting. Again you misunderstand the sentence.
        
        If a car was hit hard enough to cause twisting from an accident, in 99% of cases these days it will be written off, EV or ICE. So again, not sure what your point is.
        
        Again you miss the point
        
        So we should be all riding horses around or even walking? I mean cars shouldn't evolve like mobile phones did in your example? Strange you seem to think people would rather have more costly cars than cheaper cars.
        
        Exactly the same problem with EVs - it is a money decision to make it cheaper to manufacturer but not to repair or replace to the detriment of the consumer.
        
        You seem to be putting far too much weight on what is repaired these days. ICE cars are not repaired like you think they are. As above, a hard front end crash these days will end up in the ICE car being written off and not repaired.
        
        Just look out on the roads and you'll be hard pressed to find lots of older cars, 10-15 years is about the limit before ICE cars start to disappear from the roads in mass. Not sure why you think EVs should or would be any different.
        
        Consumer companies will feed you anything and you'd take it.
        
        ICE companies are in full FUD mode, they remind me of what the tobacco companies did about 20-30 years ago!
        
        Again, this is nothing 'new', companies have been feeding lines to consumers since the dawn of time.
        
        netjock on 24/04/2023 - 15:26
        
        @JimmyF:
        
        I'm not really sure what your point is, most ICE cars are way over $20k. Drive.com.au reports the average new car sale price in Australia is $50k. Far cry from your $20k claim.
        
        Now you are just messing around. Neither is an EV average 80k. Just searching for an argument. My claim is a Kia Piccanto is $20k. I think you have a reading and comprehension problem.
        
        If a car was hit hard enough to cause twisting from an accident, in 99% of cases
        
        LOL now that is just trying to define your hard enough to be part of the 99%.
        
        So we should be all riding horses around or even walking? I mean cars shouldn't evolve like mobile phones did in your example? Strange you seem to think people would rather have more costly cars than cheaper cars.
        
        Are you that bad at logical reasoning. Cheaper up front but costs more in the long term. Just like your idea paying $80k for an EV is cheaper servicing. Why can't you pay more for a car that is easier to replace the parts?
        
        You are in full EV FUD mode.
        
        JimmyF on 24/04/2023 - 17:20
        
        @netjock:
        
        Now you are just messing around. Neither is an EV average 80k. Just searching for an argument. My claim is a Kia Piccanto is $20k. I think you have a reading and comprehension problem.
        
        Again, what does price have to do with this? You haven't answered this yet. Other than that you can't afford anything more than a $20k Kia Piccanto.
        
        The average new car price is $50k. So if you are going to compare a EV to a ICE on price, then at least do it the average for a ICE. EVs in Australia start at $48k for the Atto. You can get a Model 3 for $66k drive away. Hardly crazy pricing compared to the average ICE car of $50k is it?
        
        LOL now that is just trying to define your hard enough to be part of the 99%.
        
        You're just ignoring the facts to suit your point again. The funny part is, your $20k car is more likely to be written off, than a $80k car in a crash. So who has the disposable car? But sure if you want to think any crash means a EV is written off, then go for it.
        
        Are you that bad at logical reasoning. Cheaper up front but costs more in the long term. Just like your idea paying $80k for an EV is cheaper servicing. Why can't you pay more for a car that is easier to replace the parts?
        
        What servicing and what parts need replacing? Its not a ICE car ;)
        
        But great to hear your ICE has easy to replace parts. Not sure what you think needs replacing on the EV all the time. Is this the battery that needs to be removed every time you get home to charge it? Just like you have to take your fuel tank out to fill it? Oh wait….
        
        You are in full EV FUD mode.
        
        Oh yes, not like you're not in full ICE FUD mode either. But sure whatever.
        
        How about you drive what you like, I'm sure your $20 Kia is a lovely car, I'll continue to enjoy my EV. It honestly makes no difference to you or me what each other drives. You're clearly down the tobacco FUD hole, so enjoy it.
        
        netjock on 26/04/2023 - 09:36
        
        @JimmyF:
        
        I'm sure your $20 Kia is a lovely car, I'll continue to enjoy my EV
        
        There shows your FUD because you have skins in the game.
        
        I don't drive a Kia Piccanto but I use it as an example because it is the cheapest car that anyone can afford.
        
        Time to get off your high horse.
        
        JimmyF on 26/04/2023 - 10:02
        
        @netjock:
        
        I don't drive a Kia Piccanto but I use it as an example because it is the cheapest car that anyone can afford.
        
        Yes it is the cheapest NEW car you can buy, but it is not the AVERAGE car that people are buying. Sure the ~2200 people who purchased one each year might enjoy them, but they are no volume seller.
        
        You are so fixed on the purchase cost of the car, which has nothing to do with repairability. Infact, it is the opposite, the cheaper the purchase price is, the more likely it will be written off for minor damage.
        
        Time to get off your high horse.
        
        Says the person on their high horse of EVs being written off, while your $20k Kia isn't. LOL
        
        netjock on 26/04/2023 - 10:27
        
        @JimmyF:
        
        the cheaper the purchase price is, the more likely it will be written off for minor damage
        
        Before it was crash, now minor damage.
        
        You should start a white board of facts where you started arguing from.
        
        Enough of your foolish FUD.
        
        You just keep imaging what is happening in crashes because I haven't written off a car is 20 years of driving so I guess it only happens often to people in your mind and makes it into considerations.
        
        JimmyF on 26/04/2023 - 10:48
        
        @netjock:
        
        Before it was crash, now minor damage.
        
        Yes a 'crash' that causes minor damage to the point that the car is written off. A car isn't written off as it is not repairable, it is written off when the cost of repair is generally more than 70% of the insured value, even less for some companies.
        
        So in your $20 note peoples car example $14k in damages would write the car off, even less as the car ages and its market value drops.
        
        While that 'evil' EVs you talk about, it would have to be $55k in damages before being written off.
        
        Enough of your foolish FUD.
        
        I'm not the one who doesn't understand repairability costs or how insurance works for writing a car off.
- voo123 on 24/04/2023 - 20:19
  
  The insurer's obligation should be to return the car back to original factory condition, as before the accident, assuming the car was in factory condition prior to accident. If they're using second hand panels and taking shortcuts, its not 'as per original factory condition'. The lifetime guarantee means shit all; just means that repair is guaranteed to meet or maintain the already low standard of work.
JimmyF on 24/04/2023 - 10:12

+2

Shouldn't I get everything replaced not repaired since I'm not at fault? Why would I repair and be left with an inferior result? I never knew this was how insurance worked with choice of repairer.

As you just said, choice of 'repairer', this is the standard practice, repair first, if not repairable, then replace parts.

After reading the pds I can see the insurer always has final say on repair or replace. Disappointing.

If only there was a sign when taking out your policy they had been going to be a 'budget' insurance company..

With insurance, it really is a matter of you get what you pay for. The cheaper aka budget ones have to save money somehow, so they chop things out of the coverage.
Ughhh on 24/04/2023 - 11:15

A previous suggestion was to claim from at fault party. I contacted AAMI and they simply said they won't accept my claim unless their customer lodges a claim. How is this also possible? If a at fault party never claims where does that leave the victim?

This is correct. You're not their customer. If their customer has not initiated a claim / ask them to represent them, they don't need to do anything for you.
- JimmyF on 24/04/2023 - 11:32
  
  +1
  
  Just thought I would add to this, so adding here
  
  A previous suggestion was to claim from at fault party. I contacted AAMI and they simply said they won't accept my claim unless their customer lodges a claim. How is this also possible?
  
  Would you be ok if some random person called Budget Direct and puts in a claim against your policy without your approval? As this is what you are trying to do.
  
  If a at fault party never claims where does that leave the victim?
  
  The victim as you put it, has their own insurance. They put a claim in and are made right again, just like you are doing. It is then up to the 'victims' insurance company to chase the other party to recover the money etc from them.
drup on 25/04/2023 - 08:26

+1

Thank you friends for educating me. Lesson learned.

Don't get budget insurance or go with a company that has 'budget' in the name. Lodge your own insurance don't call the other party's insurance.

That brings me to my next question. Recommended insurers? Racv? (located in Vic)
- stumo on 25/04/2023 - 14:19
  
  You could ask your 12k repairer to do everything on your behalf. They usually have their own deals with lawyers who will go after the at-fault party on your behalf. This kind of process has become very popular lately for not at fault parties, largely because of their own insurers taking the piss like you have found out. The risk is that if they can't get any money out of the perp, then they come knocking on your door instead. But this shouldn't be a problem if you know for sure the perp is insured/loaded.
  
  The other way is to start the process through your own insurer (or the above). Then once it gets to the booking in the repair stage, you contact the perps insurer again. They will be much more willing to play ball once they are on the hook for the claim and repair estimates they now have in front of them. Then you can hold off on the initial repair and go with a better deal offered directly by the perps insurer.
  - drup on 26/04/2023 - 19:50
    
    Thank you sir, this gives me some context.

Advice on Not at Fault Repair with Insurance

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