Flipping a Toyota RAV4 - Wise Investment or Fraught with Risk?

Hey fellow OzBargainers,

I'm hoping to tap into the collective wisdom here to discuss a potential "investment" opportunity that has landed in my lap.
I decided to ask here because I believe our collective objective to being on this great website is to find a great deal, and that we can also sometimes be financially risk averse.

Background

In March 2022 I ordered a Toyota Rav4 via Novated Lease at work. We were told there was a lead time of ~6 months.
It was a Hybrid 2WD Blue XSE with tinted windows, weather shields and rugged floor mats.

Following the second rate hike in June-2022, we cancelled the car order, and took many actions to extend our financial runway given that the yield curves were suggesting that rates were going to go up to 3-4% in a really short amount of time. (Was worried there was going to be a recession)

Well, low and behold, 15 months later, we're called by the dealership, our car arrived. Apparently it wasn't cancelled and as such, our car was available to re-purchase with basically instant delivery. The option is ours, we were told that there is a massive wait list of 18-24 months and that this car would be gone in a heartbeat if we didn't want it.

Since the original order, the car has been upgraded to the 2023 model, which has a bigger infotainment screen + USB C ports everywhere now. This also means that the car price went up, so we were offered to either go novated lease for ~$48k or buy it outright for $52k.

Opportunity

Based on a search in the Sydney area, I'm obvserving that 2023 Rav4 XSE are quite rare.
Infact, even the 2020-2022 vintage of Rav4 hold their prices surprisingly well.

And nearly all listings of 2023 Rav4 XSE on carsales are referring to made-to-order lead times.

There is one, however listed ready to drive off the lot for damn near $70,000!

Now, we're a frugal lot, and while we do need a car, it is definitely not a car with a $52,000 rrp price tag.

That said, I'm entertaining the idea of reselling it. Take a hit on the insurance cost as well as any associated costs to sell the car.
But seeing that the premiums on cars that are available for instant pickup is very tempting.

The potential for a $10k-$18k profit is very attractive. It would mean that we could buy a new family car with the proceeds.

Concerns

I'm weary of the risks though, how does one even receive $60-70k from a private buyer?
What if i crash or scratch the car before sale?
What if I cant find a buyer and we end up in a recession?
I guess the risk-free rate would be what a dealer would give me for the car, which would basically be near the RRP anyway considering the lag in deliveries.

Love to hear everyones thoughts.

Poll Options

  • 311
    Do it
  • 43
    Dont do it

Comments

  • No risk no gain.

  • Have you asked the dealer how much they are willing to pay you to not buy it? Feels like a safer path and 8-10k profit with no capital required.

    • Why would the dealer give you money? They make money selling cars not keeping them.

      • They can sell it for above MSRP lol

        • Depends how dodgy they are. Technically for a brand new unregistered car they can't sell over MSRP.

  • +2

    People can't risk 50k to make up to 10k
    SMH, if you aren't game, don't do it. Nothing is guaranteed in life.

    • +1

      Is not even risking 50k.. worst case scenario will be selling the car for a few k’s lower than what he paid and that is REAL WORST CASE SCENARIO!

      • You make valid point

    • I agree, when I first saw the deal I thought how true it is that money begets money!

  • +2

    The positive votes are just people wanting to see a car crash pardon the pun… 😃

    • Some juicy OZB lore in the making here..

  • +1

    Flip as a one bedroom Rav4

  • If it's through NVL, there will be restriction on what you can do to the car in terms of early sale and how you sell it, because they are the ones with 'stake' in the car. Check with your employer and the leasing company before you do anything

    • +1

      They will let you do it, but they will still charge you the interest you're going to pay.

      Payout on a $52k car will be $65k

  • +1

    You flip houses
    Not cars

    And burgers

  • I think it’s ironic the number of posters here suggesting you should do it. The same group of people that seems to think that used car prices are at too high and it’s not fair that you can get a new car for better value that a 2-3yo one.

    • +3

      I think a lot of the ones egging him on are also waiting to see the thread where he fails and wants suggestions on how to get rid of a car he doesn't want.

      • +2

        Must admit, I voted to do it for that reason.

      • Yes I’m amazed how many are claiming it’s risk free etc. I’d love to know who on here would actually pay over RRP for this vehicle right now at this moment in time in this economic environment?! We are talking about a Toyota that is a middle income family car….just the people being squeezed by rate hikes right now…

        • -2

          You have no clue do you, hows employment in Australia? How are house prices?

          Are you going to pay 50k for a used 2 year old rav4 or 60k for a near new one?

          Dont assume everyone is financially inept like you.

  • Op, is the car still available? Asking for a friend.

    • Yeah, I haven’t taken delivery yet. So haven’t made efforts to list it.

  • +2

    The new Australian way, buy something then try scalp it for as much money as you can, if its housing or cars etc…
    If you do it I hope it goes terribly wrong for you, I don't know how you could stand there face to face with a buyer and expect them to pay 18k more than you did a short time prior.
    It really says a lot about the type of person you are, and it's not good.

    • Also says a lot about the a-holes that will pay way over rrp. If no-one was willing to pay scalper prices wit wouldn’t be a problem.

      • -2

        Two clueless socialist. Time is money.
        New Australian Way, hello its been the way of the world since the beginning of time.

      • -2

        Not really the a-holes, it's also the people desperate to get something that would overextend finance (if they could even get it on something so overpriced if the vehicle is the security) to have it or were in a situation where many would have seen it as one of their only options.
        You already lose so much money on cars, why pay even more (15%+) over RRP to take that hit and then future depreciation!?!

        I had to look for a replacement vehicle last year due to one being written off in an accident.
        Insurance payout was satisfactory for when it was bought and the age and condition, but during covid and the time after prices for the exact same car but higher kms and worse condition were almost double on the used market.
        So much so that I wouldn't spend the gap to get another of the same car, but also insurance refused to cover this replacement used vehicle due to the purchase cost listed, they'd only insure for what they deemed it worth (like half the asking price). More risk on the owner.

        Not wanting to be ripped off there I ended up buying a new car (so ripped off in other ways), only options were the higher spec of the model chosen as the cheaper ones (base models) had all gone, there was still a wait but it wasn't totally crazy. There would be no way I'd have considered the same new (now used) car via a private seller for another 15% in the cost of the vehicle just so they could line their greedy pockets.

        OP is just wasting people's time and trying to rip people off for a vehicle he now longer has any real interest in purchasing. If it were me, I'd just say I didn't want it, let the dealer sell it on at the standard pricing they do. Hopefully karma is a thing and it comes around in a significant way.

        • That was a long story of nothingness.
          If your theory was correct about overextending finance, why hasn't the property market crashed?
          What makes u say RRP of cars won't continue going up with inflation?
          If you car was written off why did you wait through covid to buy like for like? You realise insurance for market value is market value? LoL
          Dealer won't sell it for standard pricing, your understanding is absolutely mind boggling. Brb sell me your new car for less, brb sell me your house for less. Joker logic.

          • @TightAl: Maybe you're lacking some comprehension. AI is still learning after all.
            Over extending on housing isn't the same as vehicles, but look at repos on vehicles in the USA due to over extending and rates going up.
            RRP will go up or down as things change but immediately if OP was not to buy the car from the dealer, its expected the dealer will just allocate it to someone else at the current going RRP. We didn't see the same huge price jacking of new cars like in the USA either.

            I bought within a month of the insurance co officially writing the vehicle off and paying out last year, it wasn't a delayed purchase, it was needed as a 2hr PT trip each way can be done in a car in 45-50mins so had no interest in delaying for months or years to wait for prices to come down in the used market.
            Market value of the payout was not what the market value of the same car was to buy at the time of the payout, the insurance co refused to budge on the payout even when showing them the current "market value".

            • @91rs: When in the last 20 years have RRP of cars gone down? Zero, you're expecting prices to go back to pre-pandemic.
              USA dealers sell in demand cars over RRP, well documented.
              You make zero sense.

        • I don’t really get what you’re trying to say. You bought a car with higher spec because you wanted to? I get it, if you want something you have to pay the going rate, but when the going rate is inflated by greedy people I don’t see why people will pay it.

          You didn’t pay over the going rate, but there are clearly too many rich stupid people driving up prices by buying scalped items. Those people are just as much the a-holes as the ones buying 6 PlayStations for profit.

          • @Euphemistic: Pov spec cars had 6+ month wait times, higher end spec was available in 4 weeks. Ideally the base model would have been fine but the idea of 6+ months with long PT commutes (2hrs each way PT, 45-50mins by car) each day wasn't appealing & also would be a safety issue late at night.

            This was put up against buying the same year/model/make of car (that was written off) used at the time would have been foolish as it was double the price paid in 2019, I'd rather have bought new car than overpay lining someone else's pockets while obtaining a vehicle that insurance companies won't insure for what I paid. Basically like what OP is trying to do with a new car, buying it to then on sell at a huge markup.
            Losing even more money on a depreciating item is even worse and should be the one thing we can all agree on here I'd have though!

    • It really says a lot about the type of person you are, and it's not good.

      By just asking, OP clearly didn't have this premeditated. They've gotten lucky in this situation and wanting to benefit from it. I hate scalpers as much as the next person, but I don't hold it against OP for seizing an opportunity. If it's not OP, it's the next person taking advantage.

      • +1

        Scalpers or ‘opportunistic’ sellers are making genuine buyers are stuck with a ridiculous waiting list. TBH I hope the OP picks it up tries to sell it and can’t make any $.

        We just picked up a new car. Waited over a year for it. Several times I mentioned to the dealer that we’d be happy to pick up at short notice. I let them know finance wasn’t an issue. The car is a popular model and our order was ‘stock’ with a couple of dealer fitted add ons, not custom optioned. We never got a look in for cancelled orders as far as I know. I’m aware of a few people picking in the same vehicle after walking into the dealer on the right day and getting delivery in a week. I’ve seen more than a few advertised with very few kms at inflated prices. The local non brand dealers had 3 in stock for about $5k over rrp all all with less than 200km on them a week after we picked ours up.

        When you’ve got customers out the door waiting it seems wrong they can sell to Johnny come lately for an extra profit and get away with screwing those customers that have a legit order.

        • +1

          I understand your point, but OP is a "little guy" with a lucky break to make some extra cash. On this forum, I think we could all do with a bit of extra cash. Their action is not intended to hurt you, not even in thought.
          Whilst your frustration is valid and I share it for scalpers, for OP, I hope them the best to counter your sentiment in this case.

          • +1

            @S2: Thanks for empathy mate, Euphemistic has made it quite clear how he feels about me.

  • Good luck. It’s a bet. I don’t know anyone prepared to pay above retail these days as everyone knows supply is easing. I was looking at a new rav 4 and thought f that game. Bought a cheap run around still under warranty second hand at a fair price.

  • Haven't ready all the other comments, but you'll have a better chance of selling it for more, before end of the instant asset write ends (I believe end of this financial year). Once it ends, business won't be able to decpreciate the car immediately, and you might find there is less people in a rush to get a new car.

  • +1

    Lots of risk here IMO. I keep a really close eye on the value of cars and motorcycles and you often see people in the same boat as you, they have a brand new car with delivery km's only and are trying to sell it for slightly over RRP. It's hard to tell if they end up selling but often they hang around on the sale pages being bumped or relisted for ages. I imagine most customers would prefer to deal with dealerships than privately when talking about that much money?

    Using values of unsold cars on sale pages isn't foolproof either, there is probably a reason a car listed at a dealership for $70k is still for sale? That particular car was complied in March and registered last month so it has possibly been for sale for a month or more? Remember the only cars you see for sale are ones that haven't sold.

    If you can afford to potentially be stuck with a new car for a month or two I'd give it a go but I wouldn't rely on coming out $10k up.

  • +1

    A mates brother pretty much has done this exact same thing with a new hybrid RAV4 after a long wait, he drove it from the dealership straight to another Toyota dealership that gave him 10k more than his purchase price.

  • Should get the paint protection pack. That will improve the resale value

  • -1

    Do it if you can keep it (in case it doesn’t sell). Don’t do it if you cannot afford.

    Personal story- did a flip on Ioniq 5 as we dabbed into EVs. We bought both Model Y and Ioniq 5 to choose the right one and flip the one that doesn’t suit us at the time both were introduced. The outside story looks great but the headaches that come with flipping, the tire kickers and the calculations in relation to lost interest $$ can cause a bit of distress.

    • Yep, it's certainly not easy money. I tried to flip an older car and I came out of it approx $10 profit. Then you had the almost impossible amounts of enquires to answer and BS to navigate. Its not for the faint hearted.

  • A RAV4 for $60k? GGF. Never.

  • Normally I wouldn't advocate this but…this time I would. Those cars are clearly hot shit. No idea why but they have been for years so as long as you can afford to hold it for a small amount of time while you rehome it have it!

  • Was a land cruiser brand new that popped up on my Facebook market place a few weeks back was 10k over rrp lasted a day before it was gone

    • Doesn’t mean someone bought it for $10k over rrp though. Could have settled for $2k. Might have been on other sites for weeks. Might have just been a scam.

      • +1

        Could have been alot of things just saying it didn't last long considering the wait of Toyota cars atm

  • Call some dealers in your area and ask them for offers. I’m a Rav4 owner and have heard of dealers buying secondhand cards at over RRP. That’ll probably be your easiest path but you’ll take bit of a hit on potential profit

  • +1

    From what I've seen from various groups of in demand cars, if the wait time is very long, there is always room to make money. I'd say 2 to 4k is guaranteed and if you are lucky more than that. If you want to go for the easy route, give a car broker a call and see what price range dealers/wholesalers will pay.

    If you sell privately, there will be plenty of low ballers but if you wait for the right person it will sell. Keep in mind that if you set your price too high, people will buy cars from the next size/price bracket instead, which may have better availability.

    • Thanks for the tips!

  • Do it.

    Honestly at 5 figures -> If the buyer is willing to pay it's not like a poor uni student who really wants to goto a concert with their mates you're ripping off.

    It's more like some boomer that's wanting a new car coz they can afford it ahahah

    Or a dummy that doesn't want to buy an alternative like a Forester

  • Flipping a Toyota RAV4

    The potential for a $10k-$18k profit is very attractive.

    Are you looking to do an insurance scam?

  • Do it. For anyone who's bought a car within the last year knows the madness. Especially a Toyota hybrid. It'll be gone in days. Could make an Easy 5 to 15k depending on how quickly you want it gone

    • Agree! As someone with a couple of RAVs on order and following the market closely, you will have no problem making a quick buck. Drive it round the block and the dealer will buy it back from you above RRP to then sell it as 'used car' for $10k more.

  • +3

    Wtf people buy RAV4s for 70k?

    I hope there is a conclusion to this story do keep us posted

    • +1

      I do t get it either. It’s not like it’s a limited edition or special vehicle and paying $10k extra to save a little on fuel doesn’t seem wise.

      • +1

        You're paying 10k extra to save 12 to 24 months on a car you want. Life's too short I guess

        • +1

          Lol need to get their brain checked when you can buy a model y for that price

    • I don’t know anyone who would pay that for a RAV 4. I said that earlier and told the OP not to do it and people negged me….

    • will do

  • +3

    If it's a choice of waiting 12+ months for a RAV4 at RRP, or paying a $10K premium to get one now, or changing to a different car that is in stock… I'd go the third option.

    I can't imagine too many being so keen on a RAV4 that they'll pay $10K over. At the end of the day, it's a car.

    For $70K, why wouldn't I just upgrade and buy something better that's in stock.

    I would feel like a fool paying that much of a RAV4, and most people would. There are alternatives. The RAV4 isn't the only car out there. There are 20 odd brands, and 200 odd models that can take you from A to B.

    For every one seller who may have made a bit of profit on a RAV4, there's probably 20 that's sitting on one and are desperately holding onto asking price and dealing with tyre kickers and low ballers every weekend lol.

    But anyways, good luck.

    Be wary of some of the posts here encouraging you. They likely just want to see you get burned.

    Again, what is so special about a middling spec XSE RAV4 that someone has to have one? I'd take a walk to Lexus if I had a $70K budget and Toyota be damned.

    • Yep I did exactly that. Went for option 3. Who in their right mind would pay over RRP?

    • Friend of mine is trying to sell his Evo. Not many (selling) in the country. Not asking for much. Can't sell it.

      He flips cars for side huddle and says he probably have to sell for a loss.

      First loss in 20 years.

  • +3

    Who are the dumb people spending over MSRP for cars, I was at the Lexus dealership a couple weeks ago and there were NX 350H for 70k sitting on the lot, go and buy it people, don't order custom spec cars that have massive wait times, just wait for shipments that arrive at the dealers every few months, keep a lookout and buy one.

    Spending close to a Lexus for a Rav4 is soooo dumb.

    • I wonder why people would make that decision to buy a second hand car thats more expensive than the upper tier alternative?

      That doesn't make much sense..?

  • +3

    I'd fit a rollbar if you're looking to flip it.

  • +1

    Go for it. I wouldn't worry about someone wanting to test drive it. I've heard there are lots of people working away on oil rigs who will happily buy it sight unseen. :-)

    • -1

      Next thread: Sold my car to an oil rig worker and now my bank account has been drained. What can I do for compensation?

      • Is it possible for a bank to clawback funds that have already settled?

  • Do you have $52k cash to pay for this right now? if not, you'll have to factor in loan repayments. Also worth noting is that many car loans have clauses that penalize you for paying it off earlier than the duration of the loan.
    Also don't novate it, it will cause unnecessary headaches trying to get out of it, incase you are planning on flipping it. Pardon the pun;)

    • Thanks for the heads up, i believe the novated lease break are quite large. Also the headache of getting financing approval too… cash is king eh.

      • Also the headache of getting financing approval too

        Yep. I only got my Toyota because the person who ordered it couldn't get finance and therefore couldn't buy it.

  • Why not give a dealer a call and see how much they’ll buy the car for? If it’s more than RRP + insurance then buy it, try to sell privately for even more money, and if that’s not successful then sell to the dealer.
    Like others I’m sure that you’ll be able to find a buyer who’s willing to be at least more than RRP for the convenience of having the car now.

  • Did you end up buying/flipping the car OP?

    • +3

      yup! — waiting on settlement before I post an update.

      Sold the car in a day, with 4 different brokers offering 60k.

      • Jesus man that's solid profit, well done!
        Will you be transfering the contract or are they buying it off you after delivery?

        • +1

          They inspect and pay.

          I give the keys away once settlement is completed.

          • @nomster: did you ask the dealer to not register it so you get more profit? or was the car registered?

            • @jayboi: The car got registered, all paperwork for ownership was done fully.

              However, I stopped short of signing up for the MyToyota app, apparently you can use the app to turn the car on remotely. (which sounds cool, but kind of useless?)

              • @nomster: Yeah, I knew you'd do well on the purchase. Congrats on making a neat and quick profit.
                I had a corolla with the app for a bit. its actually very good, can be buggy but on a cold morning you can set the temp for the heater or AC and turn on defroster on the app and get in the car and be warm/cool. and of course you can unlock and lock the door for it if you want to give another person access to your car while you're not around it

  • +5
    Merged from [Update] Flipping a Toyota RAV4 - It Was a Wise Investment!

    Hey all, just wanted to post an update to the previous thread where we discussed the opportunity of flipping the Rav4 that metaphorically fell in my lap. All in all it was a success, walking away with a small profit to subsidise our car upgrade.

    11th May

    • Pretty supportive comments in the thread made me think yes, go for it.

    12th May

    • Paid a small deposit to dealership to confirm.

    15th May

    • Settled the balance after scrounging every dollar and calling in favours.
    • Listed the Car on Gumtree for $40 and contacted a bunch of ads that popped up on my instagram algorithm.
    • Got ~6 calls from brokers on the same day.
    • Had 4x offers of 60k with instant 'same day' settlement transfers, where they just need to inspect the car.
    • Last broker offered a smidge extra with a holding deposit so just went with them instead not wanting to entertain private buyers for the trouble.

    19th May

    • Bought Insurance for the car ($6/day with NRMA)
    • Picked up car from dealership.
    • Sent rego papers to the buyer

    22nd May

    • Inspector came out to look at the car and take some pictures.

    23rd May

    • They had financing issues so they sent an extra deposit in good faith.

    24th May

    • Balance of the deal was paid out.

    25th May

    • Tow truck is arriving to pick up the car.
    • Cancel the insurance policy and dispose of the car with servicensw.
    • -1

      Ok

    • +5

      And how much did you make? That's the real question.

      • +2

        (Last thread)… we were offered to either go novated lease for ~$48k or buy it outright for $52k.
        … Had 4x offers of 60k
        …. Last broker offered a smidge extra

        10 grand

        • +1

          $10k? God people are stupid. Who pays $10k over for a ‘normal’ car - and if broker, has a customer willing to pay even more than that?

          • +1

            @Euphemistic: People who are desperate and have too much money to burn.

            As someone who did wait (nine months), I'd rather wait

          • @Euphemistic: I know. I came back to see how this panned out. Pretty speechless. A sucker born every minute as they say….

    • +1

      Im just here for a virtual pat on the back and some positive reinforcement that we were right.

      Net profit?

    • Well done mate

    • Nice one. I’m considering doing the same thing.

    • -1

      So did you order a new one?

    • Congrats. Well done. Knew you could.

    • i wouldnt cancel your insurance after a month or so have elapsed after the sale, incase they do some weird transfer reversal thing

    • Well done OP

  • Good job op, I'm in the same boat, car arriving in a couple of weeks and circs have changed. Nervous to go through the process but seems like a wasted opportunity not to. Was it just gumtree you advertised on? Comfortable pm'ing the dealer's details? Thanks…

    • I did gumtree and contacted some ads that came up on instagram. But I’ve sent you a PM of their details.

      • Hey OP, did you even pay any insurance? Most policies have cooling off period where the whole amount is refundable with change of mind.

        • Yup I did, bought it and cancelled a few days later. Got a full refund from NRMA

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