Cheapest I have seen today at Costco for $119.99. Closest other cheap deal is for $129 @ Kogan.
Levante 2000W Panel Heater With Wifi (NDM-20WT) https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/levante-2000w-panel-heater-with…
This product features:
child lock
Hi-Lo power selection
open window detection
Wi-Fi enabled
24 hour timer
IP24 rated for use in wet areas
5 year Replacement Warranty.
A decent 2000+ watt heater can be not too bad to run, if they are "smart" enough (eco type settings) but also importantly, they need to be appropriately sized for the room.
If you chuck a small 2000W heater in a huge room, it will just permanently be running at 2000W and cost around 40-50c per hour (depending on energy rates) to run.
But, if you have it in the right size room and they have some kind of "eco" function, it can be powered off or use lower power mode to maintain a temp and at that point it usually costs around 10-20c per hour to run.
Source: have been measuring and monitoring my 2000W heaters in the toasty Canberra autumn this year
2000w is 2000w it's not a split system, so they're all the same efficiency.
The only way to save money is to put on more layers.
Not sure what you mean, most of these 2000w heaters have several power level settings. Mine runs at approx 1200w when it's reached temp and is maintaining the desired temp, and drops to 0 when it switches itself off for extended periods. It probably only runs, at 1200w, for about 20 mins per hour.
On super cold days where it's -5 or lower in the morning, it's safe to assume it'll use more
@Tnetennba: All heaters have a thermostat.
They all have the same efficiency when you have a target temperature, none are more efficient than others. These basic heaters all run at 100% efficiency.
Split systems, heat pumps, etc are the exception.
Thanks, appreciate your research!
I also calculated that it cost around 50c/hour to run my 2000W portable fan heater. It has a termostat and stop automatically when temp is reached, and start again when temp is too low. So I belive all in one it must not run more than 1 hour per night, usually runs for 2 minutes, and stop for maybe 20-30min-ish
Nothing is cheap to run these days if you're not watching how you use it.
Child safety is assured with built-in child lock and it's IP24 rating means it can be used in wet areas.
These are two totally separate statements that should not have been combined into one sentence.
IP24 means "Protected from touch by fingers and objects greater than 12 millimetres" and "Protected from water spray from any direction".
Kids fingers are frequently smaller than 12mm, so it's not protected from kids fingers.
The "child lock" bit seems to be saying "safe when turned off".
Doesn't mention having a tilt switch either, what happens if it gets bumped and falls over?
Does it work with google assistant? And what should I get vs a fan heater or oil heater?
Fan for heating a small area for a short time, such as a bathroom I guess, oil better for a bedroom in my opinion (silent, radiant warmth and more efficient).
WiFi Controlled with the Smart Life phone App
As well as the inbuilt control panel this heater can be controlled from anywhere using an app on your phone. You can download the app free for your iPhone or Android device:
Smart Life-Smart Living App for Android: Visit Google Play Store
Smart Life-Smart Living App for iOS: Visit Apple App Store
Are these more energy saving than any other space heater?
It greatly depends on how heaters are used. There's no simple answer to this question.
The simple answer is that they're all exactly the same. The worse your room insulation is, the more the heater will run and the more it will cost.
No, there's no such thing as an efficient resistive electric heater.
If you want to heat space efficiently, then you need to use a split system AC.
So why get a $120 panel heater and not a $15 fan heater from Kmart? I guess the wifi function is nice. And thermostat. Plus the panels prevent child from burning themselves easily. And I've seen some panel heaters have a tilt sensor.
Yep, different heaters have different features - but they all heat exactly the same. The $15 KMart unit will put 1KW of heat into the room for every 1KW of electricity it uses, just like the $120 unit 👍
looking for a small heater for my kids room at night, to keep temp at around 17 otherwise it goes lower.
Difference between this and portable oil heater? I thought oil heaters were more efficient?
Difference between this and portable oil heater?
Oil heaters take time to heat up, and the room doesn't start to warm until the heater is hot. This delays the warmth by 15-30 minutes.
I thought oil heaters were more efficient?
As heat rises, both will make the top of the room significantly warmer than the lower half of the room. You can fix this by having a ceiling fan turned on, on its lowest setting. Doing this makes them both have the same efficiency.
Both are resistive heaters, so they're both significantly inefficient compared to a reverse-cycle air conditioner, if that's an option.
Interesting,
how does a reverse air con more efficient? the energy used is better converted?
what if they both are 2000W, the aircon and the portable electric heater. How does it relates in terms of cost? the portable heater seems to heat faster (a smaller area).
All electric heaters are 100 pc efficient. That is to say - put 2 kw of electricity in get 2 kw of heat out. All oil heaters do is have a reservoir that means they're slow to heat up and slow to cool down. There are differences in things like safety and some differences with radiant heaters, but largely all electric heaters are pretty similar.
Splits (and a ducted) cheat. They're not turning electricity into heat, but instead using their electricity to move heat from outside to inside (or vice versa). This is radically more efficient - eg 350-450 pc efficient at the very least. Eg you might put in 2kw of electricity and get 8kw of heat in your room. Naturally this means that they will often finish heating up the room and cycle down.
Really splits are the way to go unless you can't (eg renting, but even then you might be able to negotiate) or are really planning on only running it very very rarely. Electric heaters are a false economy - cheap to buy but horrific to run.
@Ezuku: I have a aircon in the living room, but both bedrooms are ah the end of the unit, after a corridor. Would you say it is cheaper to heat the whole apartment with the AC (where it will always be warmer in the living room in front of the AC than in the bedroom anyway), or keep running the AC in the living room, and use electric heater when we go to bed?
I think it will be very difficult to heat the bedrooms (or at least maintain a correct temp) with the living room's AC. Maybe putting a fan before the corridor to help moving the warmer air from the living room to the bedroom?
Thanks
@borgainerz: Step 1 is insulation. The first thing you can do is improve the insulation of the bedrooms so they can hold their 17c over night.
If you can't get to this level, then Step 2 is reverse cycle AC - you'll need to install either a system in each bedroom, or one system at the bedroom-end of the corridor with the doors open.
@Ezuku: As you say, the heat in a split system is achieved by a transfer of energy rather than just an electric element so you might get 8kw "rated" heat energy for 2kw in (typically around 3x), then you have further tech like variable speed compressors that add to efficiency.
However, I still think there is relative effectiveness in a decent oil heater with a thermostat, because at a certain point you're simply maintaining the heat energy stored in the thermal mass of the oil. In a modest size area and on a low setting it is running at much less than 2kw, for small amounts of time to maintain this. It is also not converting any energy to motion or sound like a split or fan heater, so in that regard you don't get 100% efficiency from all electric heaters ie. fan.
Space fan heaters I deem as the worst though. No radiant heat and near constant operation to maintain the feeling of warmth.
at a certain point you're simply maintaining the heat energy stored in the thermal mass of the oil.
This doesn't make the slightest bit of difference - you had to use a whole bunch of energy to warm the oil before any of that heat got into room. Whatever heat you can get into the oil is all going to leak into the room eventually - over time, it works out exactly the same as any other resistive heater.
10KW in makes 10KW of heat. Whether there's oil in the way or not.
In a modest size area and on a low setting it is running at much less than 2kw, for small amounts of time to maintain this.
Just like any other heater with a thermostat.
It is also not converting any energy to motion or sound like a split or fan heater, so in that regard you don't get 100% efficiency from all electric heaters ie. fan.
Um, that sound and motion becomes heat energy anyway. It doesn't make any difference to the efficiency.
Space fan heaters I deem as the worst though. No radiant heat and near constant operation to maintain the feeling of warmth.
Again, they're exactly the same. If you run one overnight and it uses 5KWh, then guess how much heat energy it puts into to room ? 5KWh. Which is exactly the same amount of heat energy your oil heater would put into the room for 5KWh of power consumption…
The way to improve these numbers is insulation - the longer you can keep the heat in the room, then the less work the heater needs to do to maintain the temperature. Start here before you do anything else 👍
@Nom: Unless you're talking about the microwave, sound energy is not anything we would recognise as heat. Nor is the motion of the motor spinning. Perhaps next time you could put the radio on when you feel cold as an experiment. It would use power, but you would not feel warm. Then if your neighbour can hear the fan or the radio, is he getting some of your energy?
If you look at something like hydronic heating, it essentially heats up a liquid and uses the thermal mass of the building structure. It's basically the benchmark for effective building heating, partly because the liquid is a better conductor heat than air. There is also difference in heat distribution within the space too.
What you are saying is correct 5kw is 5kw, but ability to regulate and control the heat energy, how is circulates within the space, is what makes a form of heating effective therefore reducing how much energy you have to put into it.
@buffalo bill: You are correct, the sound waves are different to heat.
However - what happens to sound energy? Why don't you walk into a room and just hear the sound from hours ago? Because it is absorbed. What does it turn into? Heat, eventually. At the end of the day, basically everything turns into heat.
So yes, turning on a radio does make heat. Why can't you feel it? Because the amount of energy it turns into sound is miniscule. Which is also the next point…
The energy wasted from the fan blowing the air around and the sound are miniscule. In fact they could help with the subjective feeling of heat, 2kw of heat feels like more when it's blowing on your face than in the corner of the room.
Non heat pump electric under floor heating is in known to be extremely inefficient and expensive to run. The only reason viable is because it usually uses offpeak electricity to run and then the thermal mass of the slab keeps it warm.
As mentioned you're considering thermal mass with electricity. For the oil to spend ages to cool down after it's been switched off also means it absorbed heat for a long time at the start. Useful if you have solar or are running it on offpeak, but it's not magically beating thermodynamics.
@buffalo bill: See @Ezuku 's great post above for in-depth explanation, but I'll just add this;
Perhaps next time you could put the radio on when you feel cold as an experiment. It would use power, but you would not feel warm.
In fact every watt that the radio consumes does end up as heat in the room.
Do you have a gaming PC ? If you're playing a game and your machine is pulling 400W from the wall, then you can absolutely feel it warming the room - it's pumping out 400W of heat !! Resistive electronics are basically converting all of their power consumption into heat… but if your radio example is only using 3w then you can't possibly notice 3w of heat. It's nothing.
how does a reverse air con more efficient?
The other people who have answered this part of your question have not really explained this, so I'll have a go at it. I'm not a physicist, so I'm not 100% sure my answer is correct.
At first glance, it seems to be counter-intuitive. A heat pump (such as an air conditioner) seems to be doing two things: heating one area while cooling another. How can that be more efficient than just doing the heating part?
The answer is that physics uses a different temperature scale than we humans do. Anything warmer than a temperature we call "absolute zero" is actually "hot" in physics, i.e. it will radiate heat away if it is in a "colder" environment.
Absolute zero is phenomenally cold by human temperature scales, approximately -273.15 degrees Celsius. Physicists use a different temperature scale, the Kelvin scale, that is zero at absolute zero and 273.15 degrees at zero Celsius.
So on the Kelvin scale, your 20 degrees room is 293.15K, and the 10 degrees air outside your home is 283.15K (K for Kelvin, no degrees symbol is used with Kelvin).
The heat pump is letting a large amount of outside air "cool" from 283.15K to a lower temperature, and moving that heat to increase the temperature of your room at 293.15K. So even though it appears the heat pump should be using power to cool the outside air, it's not doing that, it's extracting power (as heat) from the outside air.
Currently using an oil heater DeLonghi DL2401TF for this exact purpose (although I set 21 degrees). It's relatively efficient and silent vs. the a fan heater, or running the split in an adjoining room.
It's exactly as efficient as the fan heater is.
The split system is approximately 4x as efficient.
If you want to use an oil heater, then go for it 👍 It's your money. But there's no magical gains to be had from the oil heater vs any other resistive electrical heater - they're all terrible 😁
No need to take my word for it. Anyone can Google which style is more effective generally.
there's no magical gains to be had from the oil heater vs any other resistive electrical heater
Actually, there is a gain from using an oil heater.
The air leaving a panel heater is typically hotter and smaller in volume than the air leaving an oil heater. The air from both types of heater rises to the ceiling, and that's where the difference happens - the hotter air loses more heat into the ceiling, as heat flow through the ceiling increases with the temperature difference between this hot air and the above-ceiling space.
Although they both have the same efficiency at converting electricity to heat, with an oil heater, more of that heat stays in the room, rather than flowing through the ceiling.
If you have a ceiling fan turned on, even on its lowest setting, it will circulate the air in the room, making the air temperature equal throughout the room. This reduces the amount of heat lost through the ceiling, and will result in less electricity being consumed.
I got my delivery and while the box says NDM-20WT the product has a different screen compared to the pictures. Seems fine otherwise.
2000 watt, I bet thats cheap to run :o