Is It Reasonable for The Real Estate Agent to Indirectly Appoint (Highly-Inflated) Bond Cleaning Company?

frugalftw on 12/06/2023 - 18:24
Last edited 12/06/2023 - 18:25

A neighbour of mine is vacating the unit, and she is asked to appoint a cleaning company. The real estate agent gave her three options. She had phoned all three of them, the cheapest quoted $600, most expensive was over $700. It is a two bedroom, one bathroom unit ~90 sqm. She fears that she would not get her bond back if she engaged a cleaning company that is not on the list. She have to also pay $700 for pest control which was on her contract that she was not aware of.

I am outraged by the situation as she is a senior living on her pension.

Not looking for justifications of my rage, just wondering if there is another way for her to get out without having to bleed so much?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • brendanm on 12/06/2023 - 18:27
    +3

    Yeah, clean it herself, or get her own cleaner to do it. The pest control may or may not be enforceable depending on the rental laws in your state.

    • frugalftw on 12/06/2023 - 18:57
      +2

      She’s too old to do it herself. But her place is way cleaner than mine lol She is in QLD.

      • brendanm on 12/06/2023 - 19:31
        +2

        If it's already clean, then what does she have to do? It only has to be cleaned "to an acceptable standard". If she still wants to get it cleaned, she can use a cleaner of her own choosing.

        • frugalftw on 12/06/2023 - 19:33

          I don’t think anyone knows. It’s more for a peace of mind and personally I’d like to leave a place knowing it’s been professionally cleaned myself. But that should not become a real cost (sub $200 depending on size) such as this.

          • spackbace on 12/06/2023 - 19:44
            +7

            @frugalftw:

            sub $200 depending on size

            Even an oven clean is $50-100

            No way an exit clean would be under $200… I really think you need to call around to get a real idea of pricing, and not just make-believe

            • frugalftw on 12/06/2023 - 19:47

              @spackbace: That’s for me, not her. I’d clean it myself and just have someone to check my missed spots.

          • Odin on 13/06/2023 - 08:24
            +1

            @frugalftw: No. Not necessary.

            Zero need to have a place cleaned if it's already cleaned.

            You just leave it "acceptable"

            Then claim the bond immediately the hour you move out

            • CodeXD on 13/06/2023 - 14:49

              @Odin: Some rental contracts specifically state that when you move out you must have end of lease clean performed by a professional. When I was renting I was provided the previous tenant's receipt to show it had been professionally cleaned and was told it is in the contract for me to do the same when I leave.

              Whether I pick the cleaning company from the list from REA is a different story.

              • Odin on 13/06/2023 - 18:17
                +1

                @CodeXD: No way is that enforceable. You can't write that into a lease agreement.

  • Hybroid on 12/06/2023 - 18:36
    +1

    Whizz does a 100% bond guarantee for 2bed for $400.

    GetJarvis is cheaper and there's others even cheaper too.

    Gets quite pricey when you start adding on oven, balcony, window cleans etc.

    There's lots of reasons to lose bond value beyond just surface cleaning though, so depends on damage, wall marks, wear & tear or repairs "beyond reasonableness", rubbish/furniture left behind and other factors.

    • frugalftw on 12/06/2023 - 18:59

      Thank you, I’ll pass that on so she can hopefully same some $$.

  • jm7 on 12/06/2023 - 18:54
    +5

    The cleaners recommended by the agent will almost always be above market rates. I suspect there's some form of kickback for the agent for the referral too.
    Most companies offer 100% bond return and if the agent has any issues, they should come back and remedy it without charge.

  • spackbace on 12/06/2023 - 18:54
    +5

    End-of-lease cleans are extensive, and all depends on how much of a deep clean the unit needs, and whether windows need cleaning etc

    • frugalftw on 12/06/2023 - 19:01

      I’m assuming an hourly rate of $100 including chemicals and travel, still won’t take 6 hours to do it though?

      • spackbace on 12/06/2023 - 19:01
        +1

        still won’t take 6 hours to do it though?

        Without seeing the place, how can we possibly judge?

        • frugalftw on 12/06/2023 - 19:36

          I can’t upload photos here. She’s got no pets, there are no carpets in the unit is all I can say.

      • iCandy on 13/06/2023 - 14:45

        Bond cleans are more extensive. For example, sugar soaping the walls, cleaning of ovens and windows, immaculate cleaning inside and out of cupboards, window sills/door sliders and light fittings as well as a normal clean. It’s the reason most of us renters get a professional in to do the bond clean as the agent will call you back for the tiniest of things or withhold money from your bond. When I left my last rental, I paid out almost as much as the bond was to get it bond cleaned. It’s pretty normal now.

        • frugalftw on 13/06/2023 - 14:51

          Sugar soaping the walls? For real? Unless you have children who draw on it… It is a matter of proving that the condition of the house is worse than when you had first moved in, from what I had learned from this thread so far. You should not have to renovate it in order to get your bond back. (Thanks guys for the info I would never have learned otherwise.)

    • jm7 on 13/06/2023 - 09:03
      +2

      It doesn't need a deep clean. Just needs to be left in the same condition as it was at the start of the tenancy.

      • Extreme on 13/06/2023 - 09:23

        Now, what if the property had undergone a deep clean before the start of a tenancy?

        It’s impossible to say what the property needs, without viewing the property and the ingoing inspection report.

        But for cleaning costs, it cost me $250 for a touch up clean on a 6 month old house to tidy up some things a family member forgot to do after they moved out.

        $6-700 may be entirely reasonable in the current market.

        • jm7 on 13/06/2023 - 09:40

          It just needs to be in the same condition or better than the start of the tenancy (except for fair wear and tear)

          • Extreme on 13/06/2023 - 11:30
            +2

            @jm7: Naturally, but that same condition, includes things such as clean glass on windows, window tracks free of dust/dirt, no cobwebs inside or outside the property etc etc clean oven, kitchen cupboards etc etc, if that’s the condition the tenant was handed the property in.

            As I said, $6-700 for a full bond clean may certainly be a reasonable price.

    • Protractor on 13/06/2023 - 14:08
      +1

      Experience as landlord or tenant?

  • Protractor on 12/06/2023 - 19:05
    +3

    Find your local aged care advocates and report the situation, and find out your/her rights.And/or whether there's an option for reduced cost cleaners, or a rebate etc.
    Worry about her rights before you engage a cleaner. It might pay to assist her to get a few images of the place so the cleaning contractors don't 'value add'. Good on you for looking after an elderly person. Ppl who DO rip them off should be named & shamed.If not deported.
    Whose moving in, international students?

    • frugalftw on 12/06/2023 - 19:39
      +1

      I didn’t know there are aged care advocates. I told her to call around cleaning companies to get quote and tell them she’s on pension. They got her to sign a quote today and booked a date for the cleaning, I’m looking at the laws on grace period atm.

      No one is moving in, she is moving out because they raised the rent by $50 a week. I also advised her to call RTA tomorrow on this whole situation because I believe that she’s being bullied hard.

      • Protractor on 12/06/2023 - 20:30

        Yep. OK step it up. Contact your local FEDERAL member tomorrow. Impress the urgency. Do it by phone. More power to you.

        • frugalftw on 12/06/2023 - 20:32

          I wouldn’t know where to start with that lol ACCC is more my league 😅

          • Protractor on 12/06/2023 - 20:38
            -1

            @frugalftw: If you can google you can find out who your local member is.(second link)

            Do you vote?
            (Based on your account location)

            Contact the Minister at the first link
            https://www.health.gov.au/ministers/the-hon-mark-butler-mp

            then this bloke (loacal member)
            https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian?…

            Make sure you tell both you have contacted the other . Blame is a powerful political incentive

            • MITM on 13/06/2023 - 08:16

              @Protractor: I think you'll find housing is a state issue the it comes to tenancy issues.

              • Protractor on 13/06/2023 - 10:43
                +1

                @MITM: Maybe so, but residents are entitled to representation at all levels of govt.The squeaky wheel, etc. Politicians want to harvest cred. It helps to pit both sides against each other (contact them both) when you have an issue. It doesn't matter if they trip over each other in their rush to getting the desired outcome.
                Ironically sometimes shadow ministers get results before ministers. I assume it's a workload thing. No harm is contacting state and federal. Homelessness is real, and tenant maltreatment ,aged care issues etc are all in the gamut of both tiers of govt. My logic is that if the message starts higher early it often resolves sooner.And the politician and their staff can help the OPs neighbour do some leg work etc. You have to remember a lot of older ppl living alone make little fuss and often see themselves as creating a nuisance, if they speak up.
                The fact this thread exists, and some of the heartless responses therein shows what a dump this country is becoming.
                It must be an imported attitudinal factor. It wasn't as toxic a cpl of decades ago

            • frugalftw on 13/06/2023 - 14:46

              @Protractor: That is still a bit out side of my comfort level. On a different matter, I'm trying to get in touch with the small business commissioner at the moment. Maybe after that I could get a jump on this.

              Anyway, I'm handing it to QSTAR for now, they should be able to help her out better than any of us.

              • Protractor on 13/06/2023 - 14:58

                @frugalftw: Good on you anyway for going from giving a sh*t to stepping up.
                Hope it works out for both of you.

  • elgrande on 12/06/2023 - 19:24

    Not sure about QLD, but they would not be able to force the use of a particular cleaning company in NSW or VIC, unless it was some bespoke special condition in the lease.

    *not legal advice

  • tsunamisurfer on 12/06/2023 - 19:28
    -7

    OP doesn't need to find justification for rage because there isn't any justification for rage.

    A grown adult has signed a contract and now it's time to honour the terms of the contract.

    • brendanm on 12/06/2023 - 19:32

      The contract doesn't specify that they must use one of the cleaners who give kickbacks to the property manager through.

      • tsunamisurfer on 12/06/2023 - 21:25
        -3

        The contract doesn't specify that they must use one of the cleaners who give kickbacks to the property manager through.

        There are no contracts that state "they must use one of the cleaners who give kickbacks to the property manager".

        My post was referring to the pest control item, but lets talk about the vacate cleaning. I have called several professional cleaning companies dealing in the end of lease clean and they all quoted me about $600 for the standard package for a unit. That was a year ago. So the OP's quotation isn't that far off the market rate if not firmly within it.

        • brendanm on 12/06/2023 - 21:38
          +2

          Just because a contract has something in it, doesn't mean it's enforceable. If tenancy law says that you cannot force someone to have pest control done if they didn't have animals, then it doesn't matter what the contract says.

          I wouldn't know about the cost of a bond clean, as I never had one done, and always received my bond back.

        • frugalftw on 13/06/2023 - 07:36
          +1

          No, the contract did not say she had to use the cleaners on the list, but it is implied during the conversations with the agent that there are negative consequences if she did not do that. It’s pretty low to do it to a pensioner.

          $600 is way off the mark. Maybe that’s the going rate for your location or that you only just find the expensive ones to call. Being on this forum, I expected better… The first business I contacted last night quoted $370 with money back returns.

          • MITM on 13/06/2023 - 08:23

            @frugalftw: $370 seems pretty cheap IMHO. Check their history/reviews etc. "Money back returns" - is this a Bond Return guarantee ? If the invoice states "Bond Return Guaranteed" then hand this to the REA and advise them if there are any missed areas to call the number on the invoice. You could also ask "pensioner discount?" when seeking quotes. This may be 10-15%

            • Extreme on 13/06/2023 - 09:26

              @MITM: But it’s not up to the agent to contact a cleaner hired by a tenant.

              That’s an arrangement between the tenant and cleaner. At a guess, the agent wouldn’t have been privy to the conversations between the tenant/cleaner.

    • frugalftw on 12/06/2023 - 19:46

      Really? Even if you are old and vulnerable? Someone in her 70s still thank me to this day for helping port her mobile to Boost from Telstra’s $40 a month plan. She’d never heard of unlimited calling minutes, was keeping tabs on her usage. Imagine not having that during the lockdown in Melbourne.

      You don’t have to care. Some of us likely just have too much free time.

      • tsunamisurfer on 12/06/2023 - 21:26
        -2

        Really? Even if you are old and vulnerable?

        So if you are old and on the pension you don't need to abide by any terms and conditions of any contract?

        Sweet looking forward to that in a few decades.

        • Motek Benzona on 12/06/2023 - 21:40
          +2

          Fingers crossed there are no few decades left for anyone with that kind of attitude. Can dreams come true?

    • Protractor on 12/06/2023 - 20:31
      +1

      You are kidding. TG Karma has a long memory. Clearly you have no living relatives older than you..

      • tsunamisurfer on 12/06/2023 - 21:27

        You are kidding. TG Karma has a long memory. Clearly you have no living relatives older than you..

        Invoking karma for highlighting a contractual obligation?

        • Protractor on 12/06/2023 - 21:43

          No, just glazing over thinking about actions and reactions.Went all warm & fuzzy thinking about it.
          But if I was invoking Karma, it would be for an inconsiderate inhumane attitude..
          Karma is fictional isn't it? Why worry?
          And if it's 'real' why the concern, it doesn't follow your line of western legal thinking.
          I haven't figured out yet, if you are trolling or the landlord in this scenario.

          • tsunamisurfer on 12/06/2023 - 22:28
            +1

            @Protractor:

            I haven't figured out yet, if you are trolling or the landlord in this scenario.

            I am neither.

            If I have a residential tenancy agreement with my tenant, then I am required to abide by its many terms, I don't see why its such a stretch to expect the tenant to do the same.

            • frugalftw on 13/06/2023 - 07:55
              +4

              @tsunamisurfer: I guess you haven’t met many elderly. They are a different class of people, rich or poor. Typically, they have memory issues, they aren’t computer literate and highly stress-avoidant, because their priorities in life is different, especially elder women. That makes them prone to agreeing to anything just so that they can get away from having to deal with a situation. Paperwork and contracts can be very stressful, especially when English is your second language.

              I have a friend whose centennial grandmother constantly attempts to escape from her nursing home.

              In my family, we tend to think of them as children who needs assistance, as such, we don’t tend to let them sign anything without us getting involved. That said, I cannot for the life of me, to teach my mother to use a computer 😩

              YMMV.

              • Protractor on 13/06/2023 - 10:47

                @frugalftw: Some ppl go through life with an empathy bypass. Some discover greed and opt for an empathy lobotomy.
                The force is strong with some of them. Like in this thread

              • tsunamisurfer on 13/06/2023 - 11:17
                -1

                @frugalftw:

                I guess you haven’t met many elderly. They are a different class of people, rich or poor.

                Now you are just making shit up.

                There was no suggestion from the OP that the person in question is of unsound mind, or illiterate, or foreign, or vulnerable, or in anyway in a dire situation.

                In fact the opposite is true, she has the wherewithal to pursue cheaper cleaning quotes.

    • jm7 on 13/06/2023 - 09:18

      It doesn't matter what's in the contract, the Residential Tenancies Act overrides it.

  • TurboTortoise on 12/06/2023 - 20:49

    Your neighbour can definitely use her own cleaner. Prices have gone up a lot but I would expect she can do better than $600 in Brisbane. likely $250-$500. And as long as she engages a profesional pest control person that is sufficient as well. I would ring the cleaner the agent has engaged directly and cancel and explain she signed under duress. They may not wish to push it further.

    • frugalftw on 13/06/2023 - 07:15

      She told me she will contact them today. The thing is the cleaner is definitely in it with the agent at this point, so they might not be so kind. Then again it’s still a couple weeks down the track.

      Out of curiosity, I messaged a random listing on Facebook last night, they quoted $370 incl full refund if anything gets flagged on the exit report.

      • MITM on 13/06/2023 - 08:26

        A refund is no good, you'll be back to square one.

        • frugalftw on 13/06/2023 - 14:54

          Good point, I'll make sure she understands it.

  • jm7 on 12/06/2023 - 21:59
    +1

    Regarding the pest control, does she have pets? If she doesn't, it's not required. See here: https://www.rta.qld.gov.au/pests
    Also, what was the condition of the property when she moved in? Were the carpets steam cleaned? If so, she is required to steam clean them. However, she is not required to leave the property in a better condition than how it was at the beginning of the tenancy. If she can clean it to the standard it was in when she moved in, she doesn't need to hire a cleaner (except for carpet steam cleaning, if it's required)

    • frugalftw on 13/06/2023 - 07:20

      That’s excellent, thanks I just forwarded to her.

      No, she doesn’t have pets and there are no carpets in the unit. She moved in three years ago, it was a crappy place then, for example, the blind doesn’t work and the landlord won’t fix. Apparently any time she needed something to be fixed, she had to beg for weeks, in the end she just did it herself.

      • Motek Benzona on 13/06/2023 - 07:42
        +3

        No pets = no carpet pest control cleaning ANYTHING in Qld

        Leave the place clean MINUS fair wear and tear
        There is no need to make a house pristeen after 3 years ESPECIALLY if i was poor to begin with
        I hope the incoming report stated all the damage and dirt?

        Property managers are almost the lowest rung of society, they are nothing but uneducated crooks and liars. Expect them to try to steal from an old lady and act accordingly.

        CANCEL THE BOND CLEAN. If you get ANY grief get onto IRASI or the tenants union for help. More people need to stand up to these scum thieves or they just keep doing it to other people.

        • frugalftw on 13/06/2023 - 07:59
          +2

          Forwarded, thanks :)

          • Motek Benzona on 13/06/2023 - 08:10
            +3

            @frugalftw: Also, as soon as she moves out CLAIM THE BOND RIGHT AWAY. If the agent refuses to sign or do anything just claim it online anyway. Then the onus is on THEM to prove why they should keep it rather than the other way around.

            Its a 2 minute job online, do not delay!

            Rest assured that even if you leave the place rebuilt and brand new they will try to steal the bond from you, this is what they do. Just cover the ladies backside as best you can and make it hard for them to steal from her.

            • frugalftw on 13/06/2023 - 08:11

              @Motek Benzona: Will do :)

            • MITM on 13/06/2023 - 08:31
              +4

              @Motek Benzona: Absolutely claim the bond immediately online. Then the PM has to seek costs from the bond via RTA . Hopefully the PM will just accept it and the bond gets released.

      • MITM on 13/06/2023 - 08:35

        Usually the government supplies fortnightly cleaners for the elderly - so the place would be reasonably clean to begin with. You could supply a list of dates they came to clean as evidence of regular cleaning service. Airtasker may have "bond cleaners" at a better rate.

        • jm7 on 13/06/2023 - 09:08
          +2

          You don't need to prove it has been cleaned. It just needs to be in the same condition (or better) than it was at the beginning of the tenancy. If the property is already meeting this condition there's no requirement of a professional clean.

          • frugalftw on 13/06/2023 - 14:41

            @jm7: She said a receipt was required for her to get her bond back from the RTA previously.

  • afah0447 on 13/06/2023 - 10:15
    +3

    Those figures don't seem that far off market price for a deep final bond clean for a two bedroom apartment. Welcome to Australia, everything is expensive!

    • Protractor on 13/06/2023 - 10:59
      -2

      This thread was more about piss poor treatment, than the end cost.
      If the OPs older neighbour felt intimidated, fearful or insecure I doubt she caught that off the street.
      The fact is when it comes to money, this country has changed to place $$$ front and centre when once we had a respect and sometimes reverence of older people. In the absence of official advocacy the OP stood up for someone in a fragile predicament. Others played the 'it's in the contract card'. Once I would have said we are better than this. But we clearly aren't any more.
      "Welcome to Straya, out of my way", seems more appropriate.

      • spackbace on 13/06/2023 - 12:53
        -1

        This thread was more about piss poor treatment, than the end cost.

        Try again…

        just wondering if there is another way for her to get out without having to bleed so much?

        No, it was entirely about the cost. Some people just decided to go off on a tangent

        😂😂 Love the neg for pointing out OP's actual question lol

        • Protractor on 13/06/2023 - 14:07
          -3

          So you say

          • spackbace on 13/06/2023 - 14:09

            @Protractor: I quoted the OP, with the one question they posed at the end of their post…

            It's all there in black and white

            • Protractor on 13/06/2023 - 14:13

              @spackbace: and
              "it is implied during the conversations with the agent that there are negative consequences if she did not do that. It’s pretty low to do it to a pensioner."

              "She moved in three years ago, it was a crappy place then, for example, the blind doesn’t work and the landlord won’t fix. Apparently any time she needed something to be fixed, she had to beg for weeks, in the end she just did it herself." also verbatim

              also in B&W

              • spackbace on 13/06/2023 - 14:14

                @Protractor: Yep, posted after the main thread post was posted, therefore:

                This thread was more about piss poor treatment, than the end cost.

                Is still false

    • frugalftw on 13/06/2023 - 15:03

      Welcome to Australia, everything is expensive!

      That's exactly what most immigrants would say to me. Newer immigrants would tell me stories about their real estate agents (it's a hot topic since the housing crisis started here on Sunshine Coast), I would tell them to stand up for themselves. And they would respond: this is Australia, this is just how the people are. So they are literally taught to be a certain way by their experience. Can you not see the vicious loop this creates?

      Maybe you want to ask yourself the question: is this the Australia I want to be part of? Saying it is what it is without actually pushing for changes only perpetuates the story.

      • Protractor on 13/06/2023 - 15:40

        Wealth generated from greed translates into profits without borders.They don't (greedy dross) don't GAF where they live, as long as there's an audience of less well off.
        This thread threw a light on some of them. Seems to me not too many of the DILLIGAF comments are landlord ,or RE investor based. Not much 'but for the grace of god….' etc, since little Johnny anointed them.

        (Oh, and if you're offended by the term 'greedy', you probably are.)

        • frugalftw on 13/06/2023 - 23:06

          It's interesting you are on the greed track as well. When I first moved to the coast here, I was expecting organic or at least local produce at a reasonable price. That was so far from the reality. Farmer's markets are on par with colesworth prices lol When I asked some locals about this, they said it's the greed.

          Some random passer-by started to talk to me about the housing market today, she mentioned her friend was being pushed out of her rental property after she inquired about potential mold issue in the property (they increased the rent by $100 per week), and she has a newborn baby. She also said it's all about greed.

          I don't presume to know why anyone does anything, because I know it took me a fair amount of time, effort and resources to grow into the person I am today. If you are not there, you simply cannot be there. I don't believe labeling or judging people can get very far, because most of the time they are not aware of their actions. Allow the space for people to grow at their own pace when I can is all I have to offer, if the situation aligns with me.

          • Protractor on 14/06/2023 - 19:42

            @frugalftw: The reality is if ppl are overtly choosing heartlessness over humanity,on a public forum, I have no qualms calling as I see it. Not only aware of their position but willing to defend it . .Ditto for the real world.
            But I do admire & respect your patience. It's your energy, after all.

            • frugalftw on 14/06/2023 - 20:36

              @Protractor: Kudos for your work :)

              ppl are overtly choosing heartlessness over humanity,on a public forum

              I was one of them in different ways, and to that end, I know what did not work for me, so I don't spend my energy doing those things. Like I said, if the situation aligns.

  • frugalftw on 13/06/2023 - 14:40
    +2

    Thank you for all your help. I followed the breadcrumbs and landed at QSTAR today, after Aged Care Advocacy. They outright said the bond cleaning list is illegal, and yes, no pets no pest control. I think this is where I hand off the issue. Thank goodness there are good people out there doing this.

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