I’ve thought this was what was happening since my salary hardly increased for +10 years.
What are your thoughts on it?
https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/l…
Politicians’ pulling wool over our eyes?
iCandy on 16/06/2023 - 13:30
Comments
It’s not only about that. It’s about both parties, through omission, maintaining our GDP is fine because they both have manipulated it via immigration.
Since Australia runs a democracy, it's really about the voters.
Democracy = government by media who influence the minds of the voters.
So it is really a crisis of media, both public (ABC/SBS pro globalism/mass immigration for ideological reasons), & commercial (either pro globalism/mass immigration for ideological reasons, or big business & rentier class financial interests, or both).
@LVlahov: I agree media is a problem, but the reality is media is not going to change unless forced to. So voters have 2 choices, either keep blaming media and pollies, or start taking responsibility for their own thoughts and decisions.
Who would / could you vote for?
Dont trust everything you read.
If you keep reading articles written by Anti-immigration advocate, of course you are going to think immigration is the problem when in reality people have been blaming everything on immigration for decades.
- bash legacy media (as they deserved it)
- blame both party (and people will resonate with it)
- Insert your real agenda
tabloid and blogs are part of the eco-system. This article resonates with you because thats what populism is. Use ideas that are popular to gain a foothold in the political discourse in order to sell your actual ideology to the mass.
Have no idea what "crush-loaded public services and the environment" means.
Yes I wondered about that too.
Anyone who uses a term like "crush-loaded" and "your piece of the pie" more than once in the same article is not a very good writer, and likely not a very good thinker.
It says David Llewellyn-Smith right there, no need to re-iterate
Larger cities, strained urban infrastructure and increased environmental load (footprint/impacts). Is it that hard?
In other breaking news, water is wet.
I’m putting this article out there for people who don’t know this is happening - by both parties.
Fair enough. I'm an old cynical fart who has seen enough over the decades that my default position on government and media is extreme scepticism until proven otherwise. :)
Honestly that should be the position on anything; scepticism is not a bad thing
Acceptance or rejection of another's opinion simply because the headline makes you feel that way is one of the reasons we are where we are
Media is at best the recollections and interpretation of someone else's observation, at worst it is the manipulation of events for ideology or self interest. Why should always be the first question, regardless of who says it
@RMBC: Agree. I’m often cynical myself. Its good to debate these things so we have ideas we haven’t thought of.
It's corporations FFS. Greed. Capitalism.
Govts are owned, not in control.Re our cost of living, check out the charts here. Just 2009 to 2019 rises. Now add another 3 and bit years of higher upward escalation.
The big players in the Aussie market are gaming us. False rises because they can.https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Depart…
We have NO shortage of gas, just foreign arseholes ripping us off so they can justify expansion ( = more exploitation)
And then they dodge taxMigration will amplify the misery, and we are in a recession already. Another million+ ppl and we will have to choose between everything maintaining a BASIC lifestyle. Food,fuel,housing,health,insurance . Everything.
Too many humans and a perverse economic system(capitalism) than has reached the unavoidable cul de sac of resource depletion and global conflict.Popcorn timeAnother million+ people and they will be in the same boat we are in.
Nice analogy. Sinking boat with another million passengers. Same boat, but drowning faster
Most leftist and government media, leftist political groups and academics also support mass transfer of migrants to the West. It goes beyond the financial benefits to big business and capital holders.
what's the agenda of those groups tho, who pays them? who owns them? etc
Good questions, some of it will be ideology, ie the true believers, some of it will be those wanting power and control, and the balance are those nodding along because it's their team saying it
WEF, Bilderberg are good starting points.
They're not traditional progressives ie. those that want the developing world lifted out of poverty and moving along the demographic transition. The Overton window has shifted so far right that the leftists you depict are actually considered the Left. It could also easily be argued that rampant inequality generated by capitalism and the realities of the neoliberal zeitgeist have driven leftists to support mass migration as a solution. Too bad RWNJ leaders have weaponised that for racist grandstanding and propaganda. You can fixate on the WEF and whatever elite cabal conspiracy you want - it's called neoliberalism.
"They're not traditional progressives" yes, as a person who has been active in many ultra-left circles, this is a common refrain heard, but the thing is.. people on the 'hard left' like you describe still make the same concession: better to keep company with the "not traditional progressives" rather than take the right HUMAN JUSTICE approach, of making the mass replacement of people in their own nations a redline that must be stopped.
Both traditional progressives and 'new progressives/not really progressives' support the mass inundation of non-Whites into White nations, such that those spaces become non-White majority, a process that is rightfully considered immoral and genocidal when applied to any other group.
In this way traditional progressives 100% support and enable the very forces they present as opposing. By going along with the fracturing of the polity with diversity, they both enrich and entrench the power of neoliberal kingpins, and prevent the possibility of unity in the public to resist them.
There is a reason neoliberal king pins and capitalists are quite happy to allow the hard left and new left to operate.. they aren't threats. Meanwhile they invest money and effort in trying to make hard right speech, parties, and orientation illegal.
Because one represents the true threat to their existence, the other ultimately are their foot-soldiers, just too huffed up in belief of their own moral superiority they will not see it.
Nike flies the rainbow flag and backs diversity. Their donations don't show up in One Nation party records.
@LVlahov: And to expand on this "prevent the possibility of unity in the public to resist them"
Unity is not possible for a sane person, with those that support the replacement of their people for 'social justice' reasons.
So the condition the hard left place on unity is this: just stop resisting what harms your people, and we will get the fat cats.
And it is this, the most unreasonable of requests, that sunders the possibility.
In any intractable situation between two parties, it is the side making the more egregious demand that is preventing unity and action. To demand unity around anti-White racism (racial replacement) is unconscionable.
Anyone who didn't own property between January 2020 and January 2022 likely became much poorer in real-terms, because house prices rose 30-100% pretty much everywhere.
That's a 10km traffic jam in a regional town in NSW. It's like this everyday and on the other road out as well.
Do i want more PEOPLE, ***** off
Catch the train!
That's a 10km traffic jam in a regional town in NSW.
Isnt that the run out of newcastle towards hexham?
Not exactly 'regional town' :)The link road is the worst as its one single round-about in the middle on that which causes the backing up of traffic so bad.
Similarly all that traffic gets banked up due to the one interchange at the bypass road.
They could probably reduce a fair bit of traffic for hexham if the traffic light sequence was updated for peak periods
Just transcend it all, Tom, you're on a thetan level way beyond the mere mortals around you
He is wrong in saying 'GDP per capita' used to be more important (it was never discussed when I was doing economics at school and uni in the 1990s) but he is also falling into the classic error of claiming that because the one newspaper he has read didnt mention it, its ignored by the experts (hint: experts know what to look at; its not the same thing as what the newspapers report. Same as experts dont spend all that much time looking at CPI in isolation, they are well aware that CPI is a generic measurement and there are far better measurements for specific demographics).
He is also wrong in claiming that immigration was reduced during recessions/downturns (rather people just didnt come when there was a recession eg the drop in migrants in 1983, almost entirely in the skilled stream, had nothing to do with migration policy).
He claims there will be 3 quarters of GDP per capita decline but there has only been one so far and the rest is based on his vague claim "the next two quarters at least will very likely be under that rate" based on no evidence.
He ignores that there have been plenty of reductions in GDP per capita in the past (2019 for example, when it fell by 1.7%, not the 0.2% he is freaking out about in his article) without it leading to a recession. He might recall that 2019 was a Liberal government but probably wont mention that…
He cant do maths correctly (claims we need a 2% GDP growth to prevent per capita GDP declining, but (a) forgets to mention that most migrants are temporary and hence generally dont count towards 'per capita' and (b) we had a 0.2% GDP growth and a -0.2% per capita growth; on his maths if we only had a 0.2% GDP growth then we would have had a -1.8% per capita growth.
He links to his own website as support for his assertions and the Macrobusiness blog is an anti immigration anti ALP newscorp level publication; its as bad as Trump linking to his own tweet to support what he is claiming.
its embarrassing that anyone would publish it (even newscorp) and worse that someone would repeat it.
Meh. It’s good to debate these issues. Also, both parties have done this.
absolutely its good to debate issues. But its not good to debate issues by making things up as your starting point.
I would weigh your comments more if it wasn’t for your bias.
@iCandy: You mean the facts don’t suit your narrative? You should be used to that by now
Feel free to respond to what I have said instead of a generic and pointless allegation of bias. You want to debate and that’s your level of argument?
@dtc: Honestly, I liked what you wrote as I do not know enough about economics. But your bias made me pull back a bit. I would be interested in someone debating what you wrote or agreeing with it with reasons as you have done.
@iCandy: ‘What do you think?’
‘Here’s what I think’
‘I don’t want to know what you think if it’s different to me’
Would apply this to your large post just above.
Blaming both parties is the new fab. The author of the article is a bit of a dweeb. The guy you are responding to is actually pretty spot on about this article. Go take a look at MacroBusiness and 99 percent of the time its just people using immigration as a scapegoat for literally everything. They have been crying about recession for 2 years.
Its literally the Peter Schiff model (and i like Peter Schiff) - keep predicting a bubble bursting every year until a bubble burst and then turn around and take credit for the prediction. Except they do it with recession. And their axe to grind is immigration instead of the Feds printing copious amount of money.
"A broken clock is correct twice a day"
lmao that MacroBusiness blog is the worst financial blog Ive ever seen. I used to read it regularly because i was interested in the housing market. They keep making doomer redictions that never happens so i eventually stopped reading.
Needem fiscally progressive but socially conservative government, and bigly.
Did you read the article? Both parties have done this.
neither party is fiscally progressive enough.
Storm the capital, then. Anarchy!! Wreck the joint!!
Seriously dude, apathy is a bigger enemy than gummint. We continue to enable this shit and have for decades. More.
Ppl vote for personanlity of self interest and not big picture outcomes. We breed b'cos 'one more for the gummint'.Australia is a very politically-apathetic country. This article also shows that the govt - both parties - don’t care about us, they care about themselves and power. I mainly posted the article to open people’s eyes.
Saw news dot com link, moved onto next thread (after leaving sarcastic comment of course)
No problem.
You and many others don’t like news corp, and thats a valid position, but sometimes it’s worth looking at both sides to understand something. Both left and right have good and bad ideas.
Dismissing something because it’s from the other side leads to stagnation of ideas and encourages complacency. Things change because people think outside the square.
Good government comes when they are challenged.
News.com isn’t ‘left or right ‘ side as it is ‘stupid’ side.
News.com often isn’t the writer of articles. It is often just the conduit to pass them into us as we wouldn’t see them otherwise. To not want to see both sides of an argument means you lack critical thinking skills. You will end up in an echo chamber.
And never forget the parasites of local govt.All rates and meh service delivery.when services fall again, they just employ more admin staff.they are accountable to no-one.LG should be abolished entirely.They are unaccountable tax collectors
Agree.
So, the 'article' says that "It used to be" and then talks about "since 2012"…. exactly how many governments have we had since then? Well, there was one…. and they were turfed out last year. Yep, he's obviously got lots of data to go on. 🙄
The thing he seems to miss (or ignore) is that while immigration did often drop in recessionary times, it was not because of the strength of GDP, it was because unemployment significantly rose - therefore there was no demand for additional workers. This was largely not what has happened in recent times, and particularly not what was shown in the most recent unemployment numbers.
The writer then talks about if immigration goes up 2%, GDP has to go up by 2% at least otherwise you're losing ground. (Refer: first comment) True… on average. Many on the lowest tiers of society, probably need 5% more to keep ground, and those in the top percentile of the income pile are likely almost unaffected. How much this affects each person is going to vary a lot on their circumstances - but none of that matters if you're trying to stir worry and panic.
Everyone seems happy to blame any recession we might have on the RBA (or Putin, or something), I don't see many pitchforks headed towards Canberra, so most of the rest of his argument seems pointless/irrelevant.
If it wakes up 3 more ppl from an apathetic slumber at least we can form half a sports team, or tag team a chess tournament.
But re the situation discussed here, there's already too many holes in the dam wall for a few hands full of fingers to stop the deluge.
Nobody has shown how capitalism gets to defy physics.And never will
Both parties are just different wings of the same bird. That bird has been bred by well financed mega corporations that all have the same source. The end game is full spectrum dominance. By technology. To achieve it, first they must destroy then rebuild. Hence "build back better". Nothing those in power are doing is for your benefit. You may think it is, because you are comfortable at the moment, but this would be a mistake.
Agree. I’ve been awake to it for a while.
2005 was when I was woken up…before that thing were different…society sort of sickens me now.
Stuff is impossible to unlearn.Unbelievably cringe convo chain
@Kayrhcp: If you consider it so "cringe" (shows me you are about 17) why are you not seeking a safe space? I usually avoid stuff that makes me cringe.. I guess you must be different. Come back when you are an adult please.
@Motek Benzona: ‘I’m going to claim someone else needs a safe space so they go away and give me the safe space I clearly am angling towards by pushing away any different opinion’
@iCandy: You made the thread, you asked peoples opinions. If you actually wanted to hear those opinions and didn’t just want to have people circlejerk your beliefs, stop getting the shits when people give those dif opinions
@iCandy: Oh well. You know what they (you) say about people who don’t listen to both sides of an argument.
This 'both the same' excuse is what (a) amplifies stupidity in the masses (apathy) and enables the status quo. If people drove policy instead of eating what's dished up, we would not have 2 festering wings on the flightless bird in Canberra.
Politicians always brag about how great the Westminster system is. They would say that.It's their trough.
Ministers should be fully accountable at law, parliamentary privilege should be scrapped, religious groups should be litigated along with any politician who has enabled their unconstitutional interference. Pork barrelling should attract jail time.Bring on the federal ICAC so the ppl can finally go after corruption with a virtual sawn off virtual shotgun.From my experience, every time I hear someone say 'both the same' , when pushed, they almost always admit voting right anyway, or lean that way ideologically.
The differences (so far) between this and the last fed govt could not be starker IMO. And it's no surprise they opposition haven't changed, adapted,adopted and have not learnt a thing.They are both the same on the single largest issue: immigration.
Genuinely Liberal and Labor, in terms of their net affect on the population and nation, are not much different. Welfare rates tend to SLIGHTLY increase under Labor, as does taxation and spend. Under Liberal the reverse.
Forgone by both is anything approaching decent government or an orientation to the genuine long term needs and rights of the people.
And for that matter, the Greens are worse, although they did have better direction when they were under Bob Brown (when they believed in limiting the single most environmentally destroying vector possible.. population growth via mass migration and people transfer from East to West).Yep the greens are fake . They gave on on their core enviro ethos to chase after mainstream (yes mainstream) issues. The damage to forests of Straya to appease loggers,industry and the CFMEU are irreversible. Jobs and brown paper bags today, exchanged for desert tomorrow. Clearly militant unionists either don't have kids or don't want them to have what they did as far as a natural heritage.When Brown left the greens abandoned the environment to chase rainbows.
Population is the main and only existential issue we all face. It drives every single problem we face as a species/society/palnet and the w*nkers peddling the opposite are deranged. Clearly the greens are hypocrites when it comes to population. They have had to totally avoid the whole discussion because otherwise they would have had to walk the talk themselves. In the greens cartoon world we can have a gazillion humans as long as we have solar panels on our roofs, and eat organic broccoli.
One man’s pork barrel, is another man’s honouring of an election promise.
Vote for me and I’ll do right by my electors. Thats the way you get elected.
Agreeing to spend the money in the electorate next door or across the other side of the country doesn’t get you votes.
Why else do we have trains, and frigates and subs built and never function correctly, because they aren’t for the country, they are for the votes.
From my experience, every time I hear someone say 'both the same' , when pushed, they almost always admit voting right anyway, or lean that way ideologically.
How on earth could voting make a difference when a) the vast majority of votes that go to independents or minor parties get funneled up to the major parties through the preferential voting system & b) the vast majority of voters, thanks to complex electoral rules, would not have a clue how to make their vote really count & c) voting is supposedly mandatory (interesting to speculate why that is, & no I don't believe it's because we are a "democracy").
It's almost as if the system has been designed to…….keep the majors in power.
The voting system does need reform but the populous must drive that. Ppl can't even be arsed doing an hours research every 4 years to make a vote count. "Just tick one box, I've got footy to watch."
Systems don't change themselves, movements do. Right now the flock is too busy meandering towards the cliff, let alone engage,react,participate.Apathy.
Australia's national sport. She'll be right mateApathy.
“People will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” - Aldous Huxley
So it’s the preferential voting system that needs to go but, as both parties benefit substantially from that, they will never act on it. The parties have ensured their survival at our expense.
Personally, I think mandatory preferential voting minimises the effect zealots (on either side of the pretend spectrum) can influence the results. The result is closer to the will of all "the people", as opposed to the two or three groups most likely to have blinkers on and vote their way regardless of the merits. On that note, without mandatory voting, I believe the election promises would be more "out there" to get the aforementioned groups both larger and more worked up. There are also quite a few MPs that aren't part of the 2 1/2 major parties although I realise there are some organised backers of various independents.
Rather funny, really – IKEA paying IKEA scores of millions of dollars to use the name “IKEA”.
There is another aspect to such successful domestic tax minimisation, aside from the revenue lost that could be used to fund Medicare and pensions and aged care and nuclear-powered submarines: It gives IKEA an unfair advantage when it’s competing with Australia furniture companies paying full freight.
Michael West Media did a comparison of IKEA and Nick Scali during the COVID-driven furniture boom.
Scali’s turnover was about a seventh of IKEA’s but it paid about 64 times more tax than the giant – which was paying barely any. The percentages are too ridiculous to bother working out.
IKEA and Netflix are just two quick examples of the ongoing, massive and very successful tax minimisation industry here.
That industry is a much bigger scandal than a few ethically-challenged PWC partners.
https://thenewdaily.com.au/finance/2023/06/17/michael-pascoe…
This guy runs MacroBusiness.
MacroBusiness is a putty financial tabloid that make wild claims about housing market (predicting a collapse, which didnt happen) and blames everything on immigration.
If something bad happens in the financial sector, its immigration. If the housing is unaffordable, blame immigration. If wage stagnate, its immigration. If Dan Andrews has diarrhea, If King George trips and falls off a flight of stairs, im pretty sure this guy will find some way to blame immigration.
Imagine a leftist rag that blames racism for everything. This guy is the equivalent of that. Wouldnt trust him to change my lightbulb, let alone listening to him for financial forecasts.
The foreigner wants your cookie