Are "Turn over" Policies Standards on Gambling Sites/Platforms?

lookingforTV on 31/07/2023 - 16:06

Hi all,

I have never been much of a gambling person, occasional lottery ticket here and there to get the rights to fantasise about the winnings is the only gambling I do.

I have been invited to couple of Women's World Cup matches this week in Brisbane and persuaded that I should put a small amount on teams that I support. Given that I've got tickets for free, I thought I'd place two $10 bets and made an account on Bet365 and noticed that the minimum deposit is $50. So I went on SportsBet which had $5 minimum deposit.

I used PayPal as my payment method and entered $20 and proceeded. PayPal window closed on me and I didn't notice the entire page refresh (my balance probably changed but I didn't know where to look for it given I was a noob at this). Even my Deposit Amount input box stayed as $20 instead of displaying placeholder text (I may be wrong but I am not testing again), so I thought the deposit failed and clicked "Deposit" button again.

Then I get two emails at the same time, which is when I realised I've mistakenly made a deposit twice. The second transaction happened after 22 seconds. After making two $10 bets like I initially planned, I tried to Withdraw but was unable to. Upon reading FAQ, I found the below paragraph.

Why do I need to turnover funds before I can withdraw?

Sportsbet does not charge fees on deposits on the understanding that deposits will be turned over at least once, which means if you deposit $50 you'll need to bet $50 before you can withdraw the balance out of the account.

The above was not shown anywhere on the deposit page. I've rang the Customer Service Centre and the rep was rather adamant that I've 'agreed' to this when I made the deposit. After exchanging couple sentences, the rep gave me 'one-time exception' and manually processed the withdrawal and told me then 'reminded' me that this won't happen again. To which I replied "that's a very unreasonable policy and don't worry as I won't be back" and I got a snarky "Awesome!!! Bye!!" back on the other end - which kind of agitated me.

My issue is that the

  • The above was not explicitly stated anywhere on the deposit page which I think is the most important place to display that on since that's where the sale happens
  • I feel that UI/UX without success modal or page refresh is almost a bait.
  • Not allowing you to withdrawal your own money a couple minutes after feels highly unethical. I could imagine someone having the second thoughts about not wanting to gamble but the policy makes it hard.

Not that SportsBet won't miss out on much revenue but I won't be using it again and I hope this gamble pays off and make them lose some money.

Are other platforms like this too? What are your thoughts on the above policy? Is that even legal (ACL etc)?

General Discussion

Comments

  • pegaxs on 31/07/2023 - 16:08
    +2

    Anti-money laundering, perhaps?

    • lookingforTV on 31/07/2023 - 16:11

      I don't see how. It seems like the withdrawal accounts must match your legal name etc. Their website justifies that as because we do "not charge fees on deposits". As far as my understanding of gambling industries goes, they make profit on leveraging odds, not through charging transaction fees.

      • pegaxs on 31/07/2023 - 16:18
        +7

        You put $9,000 of your drug money in… make a $5 bet… take it all out and claim "These are my winnings"… when it isn't "all your winnings", it's the oldest game in the money laundering racket.

        By saying that you have to play all your deposit in turn over before withdrawal, they effectively stop laundering because launderers want to wash huge amounts. Making them bet this whole amount as turnover means they could lose all of it, and launderers will not take the chance.

        • lookingforTV on 31/07/2023 - 16:22

          For casinos where they take cash on hand to exchange chips that makes sense. But, for online gambling platform (which takes your license details etc) that takes Debit/Credit Card, PayId and Paypal - I don't think you can deposit 'dirty' $9,000 without depositing into a bank first (which then ATO can track). It seems like Bet365 doesn't have that Turn Over policies. Seems like it's less to do with less money laundering but that might be it.

        • Mechz on 31/07/2023 - 16:28
          +2

          This year you can just launder by putting all your money on either the NRL Panthers or the AFL Magpies every week and over the year you would not lose money.

          • joeyg4343 on 31/07/2023 - 23:25

            @Mechz: Oh man panthers are getting my partner and I a lot of grilld.

    • IridiumFlare on 31/07/2023 - 16:22
      +2

      100% this. Prior to the turnover rule, Online betting accounts were rife with money laundering. Deposits were made for drug deals etc.

      Shows up on the depositors side as an deposit to a betting agency and on the withdrawal side as a "win" when they withdraw it, entirely cleaned.

      The "turn over at least your deposit" was implemented to ensure these transactions had an element of risk, without overtly punishing everyday punters by having an exorbitant turn over amount.

      • lookingforTV on 31/07/2023 - 16:25
        +1

        I am curious. If that's the case how are some betting websites get away with not having the same policy?

        • IridiumFlare on 31/07/2023 - 16:34

          What betting websites don't? All should have a turnover rule, unless they are offering it as one off incentive?

    • meong on 31/07/2023 - 17:53

      i can confirm this.

      I worked in the industry for a few years when they introduced this during all the AML tightening and AUSTRAC findings…

      we had to change a lot of our payment flows and betting processes to follow the new regulation.

  • Cluster on 31/07/2023 - 16:23
    +5

    It's to help stop money laundering, and also because the betting agency doesn't want people wasting their time making one deposit, one bet, and withdrawing. They want you on the site, gambling regularly, until you're a good customer. Basically, they want you to be a loser.

    • lookingforTV on 31/07/2023 - 16:26
      +1

      Yea, certainly feels like it.

  • Mechz on 31/07/2023 - 16:30
    +1

    You should definitely tell whoever convinced you to gamble that their logic is trash and they're not a good person for promoting this.

    • KiKH on 31/07/2023 - 18:57

      Yeah what a (profanity) up thing to persuade your friend to do.
      It's like persuading your friend to smoke.

      • meong on 31/07/2023 - 19:52

        Not that too different to persuading a non drinker to start drinking

    • lookingforTV on 31/07/2023 - 20:53

      At the end of the day, it was my own choice 😅. I fully understand the risk involved in with negative returns. I saw it as $10 to provide more excitement for the duration of 90 min 😄.

  • wpcnz on 31/07/2023 - 20:36
    +1

    Every sportsbook that I've used ill allow you to reverse a deposit if you don't want to turn it over, you just need to contact support. I often need to do it when I've deposited, can't bet the desired stake on a market (due to being restricted) and don't want to turn the money over on something else. It wouldn't have actually been a "one-time exception" as was claimed

  • adam on 01/08/2023 - 20:37

    Just turn over the money on sure-fire bets. You can probably find markets that pay less than $1.10….. the lower it is the more certain it'll be you'll turn it over with no loss (caveat: odds don't strictly work this way, but if you place it on something that has plenty of bets on it then you should be ok)

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