Curious as to hear others thoughts.
Im in a position where it would be nice to replace my wife's (or my) car. Both cars still work fine but I just cant bring myself to pay the post COVID prices that are now the new reality. Perhaps im also hoping that EV prices will continue to moderate further towards petrol models too.
Would you delay replacing your current car if it wasnt due to mechanical failure or an accident? Or are you all aboard the EV express?
Thanks :)
EV in 10 years
Nah, Hydrogen is better for the environment.
First time you are right JB
The cars are also much lighter…
@jv: A Toyota Mirai hydrogen weight 1900kg.
A standard range Tesla model 3 weight 1624kg.
Long range and performance Tesla model 3 weight 1900kg.
Weight has very little impact on range as kinetic energy is transferred back into the battery pack with a little conversion losses during de-acceleration.
Can't believe people are upvoting this rubbish. lol
@jv: Just have to carry the hydrogen to Wagga Wagga and beyond. ;) Car is light and fuel is heavy yo!
Hydrogen would be a great option if it didn’t cost a lot more energy to get it into fuel tanks. It is a decent option but battery EVs are far more energy efficient because you can put the sparks straight into the car and don’t need to waste them collecting, pressurising and distributing hydrogen.
Hydrogen is not very efficient for slow burns like an engine. Let’s see where all this goes.
It's amazing to me the confidence with which people say these things.
Hydrogen as a car fuel source is extremely new with only a handful of test cars on the road. It has no proven commercial viability, partly because the energy losses from creating hydrogen, condensing it, transporting it, pumping it into cars then converting it BACK to electricity onboard the car itself are immense. If batteries are charged from renewable energy, then there is absolutely zero doubt that right now a battery car is the superior choice. In fact it's the only choice because there are like two places to refuel a hydrogen car in Melbourne and Sydney and they're frequently offline.
Hydrogen is going to be important for transport and logistics where time spent charging is important. For the overwhelming majority of every day people, an EV is the best and only real choice.
not that new
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hydrogen_internal_comb…
a sub 10 minute Nürburgring time 20 odd years ago was pretty good too
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_7_Series_(E38)#750hL
.
@Nugs: In '93 they unveiled a functional Hybrid 5 series running an AC motor. It had CVT, and regenerative braking. Literally so early the PR didn't make it onto the Internet. All that despite only having lead acid battery tech.
If they'd used lithium ion to do the same to e39s from 1996, they could have gone into production around then with a 5er 'Prius'
Engineers there were into H2 in a big way as they saw H2 production being the natural progression. That's why they showed their Hydrogen V12s to the world in a big way in the 90s, (Several 750iLs e32s ran H2 proceeding the big e38 release in '95) and BMW even set up fueling stations, but barely a soul in the German government got on board as they must have packed their offshore bags building stupid pipelines and buying fracked gas to pocket all the Russian back-handers. A friend of mine still has one (M73).
Not that any other world government thought it might be a good idea to develop an insurance policy against being tied to fossil fuels a few years ahead of climate armageddon. You know, jic all the scientists banging their doors down could possibly have been right since before most of us were born
The only problem with battery EV, is the battery itself. And I could be very wrong, buy battery recycling scheme is just like plastic recycling. Initial intention for plastic bags was to help the environment, by reducing the need of paper bags, and promote reusability. You can see where it leads us now.
Unless battery technology has a big breakthrough, e.g. using less rare earth material, faster charging time, battery might be the next plastic bag.
@ausdday: Batteries are an issue, but we should be careful not to overblow how big an issue. First, if your objective is to reduce your carbon output, then EVs are a proven technology right now that does so. Second, there's a good reason to believe that businesses to reuse, recycle or repair EV batteries will start to emerge as more EVs enter the second hand market and need these services. Right now, there's a stronger business case for those businesses than there is for hydrogen vehicles.
Also, I'm not sure where you got the idea that plastic bags were created out of good intentions. They were cheaper and more convenient than paper, that's why they became widespread. Anything else is a revisionist history.
@ausdday: There are new batteries using less rare earth materials. Also new battery factories are building recycle facilities at the factory because batteries are highly recyclable - like over 90%.
what's the shockwave radius of a hydrogen explosion?
To give you an idea, petrol has an energy density of 46MJ/kg. Hydrogen gas or liquid has an energy density of around 140MJ/kg.
Typically, in a FCV, hydrogen is pressurised in tanks up to around 10,000psi. Even without a fire, in an accident that results in ruptured hydrogen container would obliterate anything in the immediate vicinity.
The upside of this is that while hydrogen has a very high MJ/kg, it has a very low MJ/litre, and that is because it is so light that 1 litre of hydrogen weighs almost nothing, and 1 kg of hydrogen is about 11 square metres, which is quite hard to fit into a car… so, the only way to get more kg into a smaller space, is to compress it. And this is the down side… To get enough "kg" of hydrogen, you need to compress about a football stadium amount of gas down to the size of a cylinder to fit into a car.
So, a typical FCV (like the Toyota Mirai) would have around 120 litres of volume to hold 5kg of hydrogen pressurised to about 10,000psi. Just from a burst and rapid expansion alone, that 120 litre would want to rapidly expand to about 55 square metres. Now… think of that… but with more fire, in a gas that has almost 4x the energy density of petrol…
If you want to read more about it, you can have a read through this paper where they did exactly what you are asking.
just do a google image search for hydrogen bomb to get an idea.
Hydrogen has alright been shut down from a feasibility and cost effectiveness perspective. No to mention i wouldn't like to be driving around in a bomb.
No to mention i wouldn't like to be driving around in a bomb.
@jv: No, but you didn't say they did, either, and omitting an important fact and emphasizing another to make a point is misinformation.
And while yes, I agree with the fact that battery fires can be harder to put out, they have other factors that actually make them safer than liquid fuel fires. They are slower to ignite, giving occupants time to escape. They dont explode. The contents of a battery are not fluid, ergo they dont spread like a liquid based fire can. Added to this, EV are actually a lot less likely than ICE vehicle to catch fire.
At this point, I am not sure if you actually believe this shit you espouse, or just spout this garbage for the sake of trolling.
EV are actually a lot less likely than ICE vehicle to catch fire.
Perhaps, but much more dangerous when they do…
Also, when you look at the non-collision related fires though, EV vehicle rates are much, much higher comparatively…
@jv: More dangerous for what? Such a stupid, open ended, throw away statement… ALL fires are dangerous, and all fires are different. Each type of fire has its own thing that makes it more dangerous or less dangerous than other types.
Anyway, no, no and no. You are wrong on all fronts with that one, champ. And I cant be bothered debating it with you because you will just disagree for the sole purpose of trolling.
when you look at the non-collision related fires though…
Either cite sources for your bullshit, or I will call it what it is… bullshit. (And right wing biased scaremongering news outlets and anti-EV blog posts are not a "source") And why are we cherry picking data? Why are you not including any type of vehicle fire, including those vehicle fires as a result of collisions or crash damage?
@BluebirdV: Yeah, but John Cadogan is a f#&king idiot…
His videos are no longer factual, because he learned that he can make more money from his videos by pandering to retards and bogans.
I trust Scotty Kilmer more than I trust that Cadogan f#%kwit and Scotty is an A-Grade dimwit at best.
@pegaxs: I'd like to do more research. Someone was saying in the comments EVs are now banned by a Norwegian ferry company.
They were also saying what would happen if there was an EV fire on the Spirit of Tasmania? Will they eventually be banned if there is a rare but very potent disaster?
@jv: The power needed to do compression, and leakage when your car isn't being used are major problem points.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7MzFfuNOtY
Well, there is hydrogen bomb which Oppenheimer didn't endorse.
@rave75: hydrogen bomb is different to hydrogen gas…
One is a nuclear reaction, the other is a chemical reaction.
Hydrogen is a terrible fuel.
Tell that to the universe…
ah yes, why wouldnt i want compressed hydrogen sitting below me, 3 times more dense in large tanks. What could go wrong?
@jv: whens the last time your phone blew up?
whens the last time your laptop blew up?
whens the last time your battery bank blew up?
For me… never
EVs are far less likely to catch fire than ICE [vehicles]
You're brainwashed by the media who always make titles for idiots to click such as TESLA CATCHES FIRE
I could link you thousands of videos of ICE cars catch fire, but whats the point.
You also forgot to read about sodium batteries which are in the works and blade batteries which wont catch fire even if you put a nail through it
battery tech is improving pretty quickly and will shut up all these anti ev people
EVs are far less likely to catch fire than ICE
Not when they're not involved in an accident.
EV vehicles combust spontaneously.
@jv: i know plenty if ev drivers including myself and have yet to see one combust spontaneously. Please make sure you dont ever use anything with a battery because with your logic it will blow up
go use a phone powered by unleaded
@lltravel: Yep. ICE has had over a century of development and for the past few decades they've just been finessing what they already have. The biggest gains were in the beginning. Now time for a paradigm shift.
Same as you. Holding of replacing the existing car for a year. Will continue untill availability increases and prices drop
Definitely. 8 year old car with 80000k’s on it and no issues so far. No need to get a new one.
I wish I knew how to do some basic car maintenance and repairs. I had to let go of my 12 yr old car but with only 140k.
There is a thing called YouTube 🙂
my car [Honda Civic 2016 round 100,000km] is getting on - tbh if i was having any 'major issues' id have no issues replacing it but until then [unless i win powerball] ill stick with it.
I'd also say i'd probably go a ex-demo over 2nd hand the 2nd hand market is fukn crazy expensive since COVID - at least if you go new/ex-demo you usually get a 5-7 of warranty, some capped servicing, latest features etc
The old heads here wil tell you the used toyota market is the way to go im here to tell you that is a 'load of shit' Toyotas are great cars becuz they 'hold value' meaning 2nd hard models aren't all that much cheaper then new models some are 'actually more expensive' - perhaps in the 90s early 2000s 2nd hand 'was the way too go' but in 2020s it simply isnt always true based on 'value for money'
that is just my opinion -ill prob get neg'd to hell on ozbargain
Honda Civic 2016 that will last 15 years easy.
Honda won't be in Australia in 5 though…
Really? People were carrying on that they would be gone in under two years.Trust me, they will be here after 5 years.
Will the car stop running when Honda leaves?
Whys that?
I'm hoping 20 at least. the aesthetics still look 'current' in my opinion. If it goes fine, I see no need to replace my 2017 civic until ICE and petrol stations are phased out. Guess I'm not really a car person.
Currently sitting on 192k km in my diesel i30. I planned to replace my car around the 250k km mark, but looking at car prices right now, that would be an insane choice. How the heck are we expected to pay for a car, wait six months for delivery, and think that's a good deal!? It's insane. Car dealers are meant to wait on the customer to turn up and pay while holding excess inventory, not the other way around.
I'm going to drive my car into the ground and buy something new when supply and demand become normalized in a few years.
I'm going to drive my car into the ground
Won't be covered by insurance…
Pretty sure you pay for the car once it arrives not when the order is placed.
Indeed you do, but the price is not fixed. Lots of posts on Ozbargain over the last couple of years complaining about dealers asking for more money before the new car is delivered.
Plus I want the car now, not in 6 months.
Oh man this is what's happened to us with our RAV4. Initially we agreed to a price adjustment of up to $2k when we first signed back in May 2022. Just got a call 2 weeks ago that there's another price increase of $3k on top and that the car is still 6 months away.
I don't even know if we want to continue with this as it feels like it's a complete joke now, but we've already waited a year.
@Cluster: I don't love it. At the time I was told under 12 months. They've taken me for a real ride!
You pay a deposit when you order the car (minimum $1000 i think), after delivery you pay the rest. If you plan to replace a car soon, i would place an order now and just wait it out (usually 6-12 months, toyota hybrid probably more than 12 months).
This is probably the new norm, car manufacturer's dictating supply so they can control the price of new and used cars.
Alternatively, if there is such a dire shortage of certain brands and types (Toyota Hybrid, for example), customers could just buy something else.
When I had my house built it took a total of 10 months to have the thing finished, from signing the contract to buy the land to having a fully finished house to move into. Where did we go so wrong that waiting 12 months for a mass manufactured vehicle is considered okay?
Dude your diesel will run far more than that!
I had my Nissan x-trail for 17 years. The last few years more things started to fail or wear out. Engine mounts (rubber cracking), cam / crank shaft sensors (replaced three years ago but getting engine check lights indicating needing replacement again). That prompted the need to trade in for another car. When we looked at other SUVs, the Seltos ticked the boxes but delivery was expected in 12 months. EVs were still beyond our budget being an extra $10k or more. So maybe an EV next time. Hopefully battery tech would have improved by them - maybe even solid state.
Most likely sodium, solid state would be for the more expensive ev cars.
I'll take that with a grain of salt then
LMAO! Sodium is in it's infancy. Could be the same fate as the promised flying cars in the 1950s. or Tesla self drive since 2015…… still beta.
Nissan reliability is a bit meh but not a bad run though. how many kms?
About 100,000 kms. We didn't drive it much. Mostly for trips to Bunnings. moving stuff and the long annual road trip.
We were happy with the reliability. Apart from the usual service, only had to replace cam/crank sensors which were a much publicised part expected to fail, rubber engine mounts and airbag (part of recall). 4WD was really good during the year of flooding a while back.
Bought for around $34k. Tried to find something similar but seems most have a CVT rather than gears. Similar specced SUVs start arounf $40k. Guess that's inflation. We were also looking at EVs but the ones we liked had a tyre repair kit rather than a tyre, which we did not want.
The FBT free novated lease pricing on EVs is ridiculously good, talked to your employer about that?
It is very good. Though it will be reviewed again in 2 years time I think. Haven't looked recently, but I assume rising interest rates would cause novated lease costs to go up as well.
Still really really good. I did a calculation for a model 3 in June, the after tax cash equivalent is around $52k with 1 year novated lease @ 8.5% interest after taking into account money sitting in offset, insurance, rego etc.
My novated lease provider tells me if you sign up now you will be grandfathered in for the life of the lease.
The cost of leasing is around 8-10% p.a. But that is a hell of a lot better than paying my 55% to the ato (45% indexation and 10% hecs).
Yup I looked at a tesla M3 LR recently drove well novated lease options were good albeit new model comes out next year and I still love my old BMW 535d F10, it has 126k kays and drives great and owes me nothing. Just decided to spend some $ putting new brakes on it and fix a few niggly minor issues (engine mounts trans mount oil leak) post covid prices are insane and the delivery times and the dealers aren't that interested in actually selling you a car to negotiate a good deal so to speak on ICE models.
The N57 motor in your F10 is an absolute peach of a thing! Gearbox flash, SCR/DPF/EGR delete and tune, you'll fall in love with it all over again.
Yeah the N57 is silky smooth returns good economy and sounds ok for a diesel. I've got a pretty heavily modified N54 that's a weekender I had the initial thoughts of doing that, upgraded shocks sways wheels tyres and FMIC bought XHP trans flash then covid hit never got around to doing a engine tune or installing xhp…
No, Ford is. The lead times are unbelievable. I'd probably be waiting until 2025 before delivery.
Other companies make cars too
When I bought my 'rolla in 2007, I planned to drive it until it dies. Still has plenty of life left even with 280k+ on the odo.
mine is 2006 with 350K, still kicking…good car..
2008 with 240k checking in
2008 with only 148k!
Would like to change it for an auto car so everyone in the family can drive it
Im in a position where it would be nice to replace my wife's (or my) car. Both cars still work fine
This isn't the ozbargain way.
Why wouldn't keep the money in an investment that grows in value until you need to replace one or both cars.
Throwing money into a depreciating asset is how you stay poor.
I agree, I was tempted to buy a mercedes AMG the other day but I regretfully decided to keep my ford fiesta and buy an investment property instead. Question is, at what point do I stop buying investments and treat myself? I don't know the answer but I know I'm not there yet!
When you're dead and in the grave apparently.
Most of the commentators on ozBargain prefer to save than to live a little. Go buy that AMG mate.
After 7 investment properties, then it's TIME. MAYBACH babay…..
Arbitrary, I like it. Too the moooon!
IMO when your investments are making enough to pay for the car alone without you needing to work for it.
My car's done ~203k kms and runs perfectly fine so there's no need for me to replace just yet. I expect I'll get at least 300k kms out of the engine, probably even more since I don't drive it hard. Definitely not looking forward to the day when I'll need to buy a new car (even if it's slightly used, secondhand or whatever).
Personally I'm probably not going to bother with EVs for a while; I love the feel of driving a manual car and I'd like to modify and tune my next car. I haven't driven an EV but I think for me the fun of driving fast will wear off quickly if I'm not changing gears.
EV in 10 years as there will be options and maybe cheaper.
Prices won't go down unfortunately. Why would they ? It's the new normal 😁