Neighbour Rebuilt Their House – Now Seeking Contribution for Replacing Shared Fence

ILikeThis124 on 14/09/2023 - 18:35
Last edited 14/09/2023 - 19:07

Hello Everyone,

I hope this message finds you well.

Background:
I wanted to share a situation regarding my parents and their neighbour. The neighbor has decided to knock down their house and rebuild a large double-story one. As a result, they are now seeking assistance with sharing the cost of replacing the fence between their properties.

Now, collaborating with a neighbour to replace a shared fence is a fairly common occurrence. However, there's a bit of a dilemma in this case.

The Fence History:
In the previous arrangement, the property next door featured an older structure, and the garage was part of the shared fence line. The fence, while not in the worst condition, was certainly not in its prime and could have lasted a bit longer.

Neighbour's Request:
The neighbour initially mentioned the idea of replacing the fence verbally, and my parents had to decline because they simply couldn't afford it at the time. However, the neighbor decided to proceed with the construction of their new house, which led to the relocation of the garage. This, in turn, caused the fence to lean and necessitated its replacement.

Financial Difficulties:
My parents are currently facing financial difficulties. My dad sustained an injury at work and is receiving only 80% of his 2020 wages through work cover, while my mom is not employed.

The Dilemma:
The predicament we find ourselves in now is that the neighbour has constructed a new house and naturally desires a new fence to complement it. However, it raises the question of fairness: Is it reasonable for my parents to be asked to contribute approximately $2.5k towards the cost of the new fence?

Seeking Advice:
We're wondering if there's an obligation for us to share the cost equally in this specific circumstance.

Fence Details:
For context, the fence in question is a standard wooden fence, but it is higher than usual, around 2 meters.

Thanks!

Edit: Fence is approx. 43m & we are in Vic.
The new fence line also incorporates the new garage being apart of it but it will be further up.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • ihbh on 16/09/2023 - 14:02

    The fence, while not in the worst condition, was certainly not in its prime and could have lasted a bit longer

    So it's nearly gone. Plus the garage portion of the fence is clear 50:50.

    Leave aside your parent's financial condition; they should pretty much pay 50:50. Get a loan or agree to a payment plan, but this is not an excuse to not pay their half.

    Exact situation happened to us recently. Fence was falling down; neighbours' husband (who passed away last year) built it ~4.5 decades ago. Also, makeshift retaining wall. Their garage formed part of the fence, which was pulled down.

    We went 50:50 but I got the quotes and made sure a quality fence and retaining wall was put in, etc. Our side looks great; neighbour's daughter wasn't happy (maybe she was expecting a gold plated fence). Neighbours were happy to pay 50:50 for the return on my side - I said it was probably affected by the builders pulling down the garage, but I was happy to pay 100% for this part.

    • ReaperX22 on 18/09/2023 - 09:25

      So fence was fine before construction, held straight up by garage location..

      Neighbour rebuilds house, kinda breaks fence.

      Asks them to pay for it? What?

      They shouldn't have to pay at all, and frankly if they can afford to REBUILD A DOUBLE STOREY HOUSE, they can afford to fix the fence themselves.

  • Blargman2001 on 16/09/2023 - 14:24

    Only have to pay for 50% of what is considered 'standard' quality fence in the area they live in. If all of the houses in the area only have a 1.2m timber fence, that's all you need to pay for. If the neighbours want better they have to pay for it. The fence is leaning so there is a reasonable need to replace it. Their garage was not part of the fence so they are entitled to demolish it. It has no bearing on the fence.

  • Protractor on 16/09/2023 - 16:06
    +1

    It's reasonable and necessary to come up with a workable solution, but not so reasonable to think the rebuilding neighbour is aware of or responsible for another neighbours cashflow or workers comp pay rates, and thus cost of living challenges. These days most neighbours would be sensitive to CoL rises, but looking at the whole rental nightmare I think those days are over.It's every man,woman & dog for themselves.
    So,
    There's so little detail of who knew what and when . Is the 'previous arrangement' what was the status quo, pre building?
    Was it a different owner/neighbour at that point & new neighbour is the new builder?
    Were OP parents warned of garage move, fence tear down or any or part of that prior to the neighbours rebuild?
    (advanced notice)
    Did they agree at any point, or flatly refuse at any point?
    Most important is have you (OP) finally contacted the local govt,if not why not?

  • michaelTito on 16/09/2023 - 16:30
    +3

    I demand going forward every forum post structure like what OP did in this post. how easy was it to read?

    • rumblytangara on 18/09/2023 - 13:27

      Yeah, what really stood out was that the OP was one of the best posts I've ever seen on this forum.

  • FlyingMiffy on 16/09/2023 - 20:00
    +1

    50/50 is the norm if you go to the tribunal. In most cases though, the owner that needs it more (the neighbour) will need to do more work to get contribution from others, that's because the occupancy permit for their build will require the fence to be re-established. So technically, you can be a pain and say no. They will pay it to get their OP cert and they can take you to the tribunal for your share. If they are suckie neighbours, make them work for it. If you want to have friendly neighbours, just pay up up front.

  • Androo305 on 17/09/2023 - 04:12
    +2

    In a normal scenario if both properties exist and no construction or approved building is occurring it's a 50/50 joint interest.

    From past experience, if a property is under construction and it was not discussed a fence change was required and it is now in the interest of the party mid building you have the right to pass the 100% amount onto them. I had photo and video evidence the entire fence line was fit for purpose 4 days prior to damages, the bill was paid by them. Two ways to approach it, directly talk with neighbours (builders) or the more aggressive council approach. I went the first along with evidence.

    It came down to I was fine with the fence damaged, they couldn't sell with a damaged fence. It's in their financial interest.

    • Roe Jogan on 17/09/2023 - 10:03
      +2

      if the fence was damaged he could legally make you pay for it, the law is on his side and you would foot half the bill. if there was an image with the damaged fence and he replaces it, he could send you the invoice without even telling you and if he took you to court he could get his money, just saying.

      • Androo305 on 17/09/2023 - 11:31

        In the event a fence is damaged by one party that no longer falls within the standard 50/50 split. In this case I foot zero of the costs and it's been over 6 years.

        In a normal situation, you are absolutely correct!

        https://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/my-problem-is-about/my-neigh…

        The original dividing fence was damaged or destroyed by an owner or occupier of the land
        If one neighbour (or their tenant) has destroyed or damaged a fence, they will usually be responsible for paying the repair or replacement costs of restoring the fence to its previous condition.

        • logistics on 17/09/2023 - 12:39
          +1

          usually - That doesn't read as black and white

        • Roe Jogan on 17/09/2023 - 16:02
          -3

          you didnt say it was damaged by them..

  • Thaal Sinestro on 17/09/2023 - 06:36

    If the neighbors can afford to demolish a perfectly good house and rebuild a brand new one, they can certainly afford $2,500 for a fence. With all of these knockdown rebuilds Australia will soon need a lot more landfill sites.

  • Heaps for Cheaps on 17/09/2023 - 07:25
    -2

    Could your parents ask the next door neighbour to pay and they could work it off working on the site.

  • joelmuzz on 17/09/2023 - 07:33

    Really depends on the condition of the old fence and what proof each side has.
    Do they have any? Neighbours will probably have some selective pictures and statement from a couple of fencing contractors, possibly a repair vs replacement quote.

  • SydBoy on 17/09/2023 - 09:02

    neighbour should pay the full cost and that is the right thing to do but this days we have morons and greedy out there who spend 500k in new house and then ask neighbour to pay 2k so their house look much better with new fence… !

    i wouldn't pay for it and tell them that the fence was deteriorated during construction further and if they want then they can pay in full and do it.

    • greatlamp on 18/09/2023 - 11:15
      -1

      Why does the neighbours financial position matter?

      The issue is the fence. The fence that was in average condition. The way it reads is that the neighbour replaced the fence a few years before it was absolutely necessary.

      The neighbour didn't damage the fence, OP doesn't even claim the neighbour damaged the fence.

      The fence was already failing, when the garage which was propping it up was removed the fence started to lean obviously. A fence in good condition doesn't lean.

      But the neighbour should pay everything because fairness means stealing from your neighbours when they have more than you?

      • SydBoy on 18/09/2023 - 13:30

        My comment says clearly that neighbour has to pay as fence conditions was made worse by their construction works and hence they pay.

        The part of my comment says the neighbour is asking 2k so their property looks better with their newly built house is also true.

        This has happened earlier to my neighbour as their other neighbour lifted level of their property and because of that additional earth pressure was transferred to my neighbour fence which resulted into requirements to build new fence….!

        People with 500k mortgage if add additional 10k worth of fence would not realise increase in overall mortgage monthly payment but it is worth doing for the neighbour who took all the noise and disturbance to their life due to you building your palace… !

  • Roe Jogan on 17/09/2023 - 09:58
    -4

    by law you have to contribute, as a landlord you own half of the fence, even if you paid for the whole thing, once its installed the neighbour owns half of it. yep i know that sounds hard to understand. we had a similar situation where the old lady in her 80s did not want to and could not pay so we didn't really take it to court coz she was to old and even if the court (most definitely would have made her pay) it would probably be in instalments and ruined relationship we just didn't want to take it there.

    the question here is do they have pictures of the old fence showing that it was falling apart. that's all it takes for judge to enforce half pay. our one was old wooden falling apart

  • logistics on 17/09/2023 - 12:41

    I find it interesting that they are asking for a couple of thousand dollars when they are likely spending over $500K to build the new property.
    I wouldn't bother asking and pay for the lot myself. I would also pick the nicer side of the fence ;)

  • velcrochicken on 17/09/2023 - 13:09
    -1

    You would have a pretty good argument for not paying.

    Since they have already knocked the fence down without consulting with you first it's pretty much there responsibility.

    Sure they could fight it and say they didn't but I'd try calling there bluff for now and simply state as your building works caused the current fence to fail we will not be contributing.

  • Camelface on 17/09/2023 - 13:34

    I was in the same situation, the original fence was fine, but neighbour wanted a new one. They went ahead and built a new fence, and asked for a contribution. I said I had no budget for that which was the truth.

  • khell on 17/09/2023 - 14:30

    ChatGPT alert

  • MandMs13 on 17/09/2023 - 16:17
    +1

    *mum

    • Nugs on 17/09/2023 - 19:17

      *around 2 metres
      .

  • localhost on 17/09/2023 - 19:13

    Ask for their building plans. If removing the garage was part of the plan, they removed perfect fence and should replace it.

  • Herbse on 18/09/2023 - 07:23

    No

  • mike6969 on 18/09/2023 - 07:36
    +2

    This issue is very dividing

  • smartazz104 on 18/09/2023 - 09:06
    +1

    Imagine having a friend that can build fences for a discount rate, you could knock down a fence on 3 sides of your house, convince your neighbours to contribute half the cost and then pocket the difference…

  • kev98 on 18/09/2023 - 09:19

    They knocked down “fit for purpose” fence to suit construction/style of their new house. My understanding is they are 100% liable. If you want to contribute towards fence you are welcome to however their is no legal responsibility to

  • Misha Bakunin on 18/09/2023 - 09:31
    +2

    My parents had two times in the last few years, two neighbours pull down functional fences.

    In both cases the new owners paid for the replacement fencing.

    It seems like the right thing to do for cordial relations…

    Of course my parents are in a richer than most area so I guess the new people are loaded.

    Unless they had an agreement with you guys beforehand, I cannot see why you should have to pay. Take it to the tribunal.

  • greatlamp on 18/09/2023 - 09:58

    Let's take the neighbours point of view for a moment.

    The garage on the boundary line has been removed, a new fence is required. The existing fence does not go all the way and is serviceable but old.

    To build a new fence only where the old fence ends will look ratty, so obviously they will want to replace the fence. In their mind the neighbour will also not want a ratty patchwork fence either. The fact that the existing fence started to fall apart when the garage was removed further supports it was not in near new condition anymore.

    Neighbour mentions a new fence is required, OPs parents say 'old fence is fine, we can't afford it good luck with new house'. From neighbour's point of view your parents are just typical shit neighbours who don't want to pay their share - do they really expect a ratty patchwork fence? A quote for 6m of fence is going to be obscenly priced. Neighbour doesn't have any concept of OPs parents financial difficulties.

    Law says both neighbours are liable to pay for a new fence, so neighbour gets a fence built for the entire boundary line and doesn't bring it up with OPs parents because they don't want to have another uncomfortable confrontation.

    OPs parents can now refuse to pay, or offer to pay for only 6m fence. However the fair price for a 6m fence isn't a 6/45 proportion of the total bill of a 45m fence, a quote for 6m of fence would be several hundred dollars.

    The point to focus on is - even if neighbour believes an entirely new fence is warranted, they should have shared price details before it was built.

  • random2555 on 18/09/2023 - 11:33

    Do you have pictures of the fence prior to your neighbour demolishing the garage? Some questions/items you need to have to prepare for any upcoming discussion with the neighbour.

    1. Condition of the fence prior to the construction work. Preferably before the construction started. If your parents have old pictures from when they bought the house etc. that might also work. If you can show proof that the fence was of good condition prior to the demolition, you can argue the neighbours demolition caused damage to the fence. In that case neighbours will have to pay for the replacement/repair, not your parents.

    2. Is the old fence still there? Is it just leaning heavily? If the fence is only leaning with no other structural issues it may be more economical to "repair" than "replace". This is the second argument your parents and go with if the first doesn't work because the original fence was already in a bad state.

    3. If the neighbours already removed the old fence without informing your parents (by providing a fencing notice) then they are not obligated to contribute to a new fence as your neighbours did not follow the required steps under Victorian law.

    4. Is your neighbours garage now offset from the boundary? I.e. is there now a gap in the fence line due to the garage being moved? If this is the case your parents will likely need to contribute to a dividing fence for the portion left by the garage. The old garage cannot be considered a dividing fence and thus this area was not officially "fenced".

    5. Lastly, if all else fails, a sufficient dividing fence in Victoria only needs to be 1.8m tall, your parents do not need to contribute to the portion of the cost that is paying for a fence of higher quality.

  • sashatheman on 18/09/2023 - 13:45
    +1

    If your parents never agreed to go half, they shouldn't be expected to pay for it, if the neighbor wants it replaced.
    I got my front fence done, part of the work was shared side fence in the front yard, because the previous one was shoddy. I knew the neighbors were retired and are not flush with cash, so I didn't even bother asking them to pay their amount, given the side fence was part of the larger project of doing the front fence with gate, I didn't think it was worth trying to milk some cash from them. If the neighbour built a whole brand new house they should just absorb the cost of the new fence.

  • HangryCakeStore on 18/09/2023 - 13:52
    -3

    I don’t think these pea brained ozbargain neggers understand the meaning of a shared fence. Lol

  • McFly on 18/09/2023 - 14:08

    Your mom and dad don't need to pay the neighbor anything, certainly not for a 2 meter fence.

  • Shoppingisfun on 18/09/2023 - 16:15

    Exact thing happened to us in Vic even down to the old garage forming part of the boundary. When the neighbour approached we just said the fence was fine before so we weren't prepared to contribute. The fact that they had previously told us they were paying $180K for landscaping (through Metricon) sealed the deal. They were ok with our decision.

  • gstfree on 18/09/2023 - 19:05

    I would contribute 50% of the new fences for the length of garage wall only. The old fence was Okay and no need to replace. The rule is whoever knock it down pay for the new one.

  • whitfords on 19/09/2023 - 00:44

    It found me!

  • bigbadboogieman on 19/09/2023 - 08:47

    My suggestions below. Although if they are reasonable people and your parents are good neighbours, these neighbours will probably pay for it themselves given they have done a full rebuild, an extra 2.5K will not sting so much provided they feel they are helping a neighbour out. Having amicable relations with neighbours is worth more than 2.5K in my opinion.

    • Talk to the neighbours and tell them the truth that your parents can't afford to pay the quoted amount. So even if they decided to drag this out to legal channels, they won't be seeing alot of amount quickly. It's as simply as that. Request them to cut your parents some slack if they can.

    • Also humbly add that the fence was "fit for purpose" before construction began, so in your opinion (being a third party), it should be "repaired" as part of the construction activities. It would be cheaper to simply add the missing portion covered by the garage wall and ask for a quote on that portion only. May be that partial component is affordable and likely fair for your parents.

    Dragging this out may be your best option financially but also keeping it amicable.

  • sharka on 19/09/2023 - 08:56
    -2

    I'm not a lawyer, but it is generally a good practice to consult the local laws and regulations pertaining to property and shared boundaries in your jurisdiction. In Victoria, Australia, the Fences Act could potentially govern this matter.

    Here's a broad overview of the steps and considerations you might take:
    Understanding the Legal Framework:

    Fences Act: According to the Fences Act of Victoria, adjoining property owners are generally required to share the cost of a dividing fence. However, it should be a "sufficient dividing fence" which is generally defined as a fence that is sufficient to separate the properties — this does not necessarily mean a brand-new, high-quality fence. It is more about a fence that is "reasonable" considering various factors like the existing fence, the uses of each property, etc.
    Communication:

    Dialogue: Maintaining a good relationship with your neighbour by having open and respectful dialogues is crucial. You could discuss the circumstances openly with them, highlighting the financial constraints your parents are under.
    Negotiation:

    Alternative Solutions: You could try negotiating a lower contribution, perhaps offering to cover a smaller percentage of the costs due to the financial difficulties your family is facing.
    Quotes: Ask to see the quotes your neighbour has received for the work, and possibly seek alternative quotes to ensure the cost is reasonable.
    Documentation:

    Written Notice: If a resolution cannot be reached amicably, the Fences Act allows for a "fencing notice" to be given by one neighbour to the other, outlining the proposal for fencing works and seeking a contribution to the cost. Responding to a fencing notice within 30 days is generally required, in which your parents could state their position.
    Records: Keep records of all communications regarding this issue, which might be necessary in case of legal disputes.
    Seek Legal Advice:

    Consult a Lawyer: If matters become more complicated and you're unable to resolve the issue amicably, it might be worth seeking legal advice to understand your parents' rights and obligations better.
    Community Assistance:

    Community Legal Centres: Given your parents’ financial difficulties, it might be worth reaching out to a community legal centre for free legal advice.
    Personal Advice:

    Financial Planning: Help your parents to manage this unexpected expense by potentially looking at their budget and seeing if there are any discretionary expenses that can be temporarily reduced.

  • TheRealCher on 20/09/2023 - 19:29
    +1

    What about knocking the fence down and putting your own fence up and then charging your neighbour for half?

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