Are You in Favor of or Opposed to VIC Banning New Gas Connections as of January 1?

Bman17 on 20/09/2023 - 14:53

I prefer a gas connection over an electric one as some Indian and Middle Eastern food you just can’t cook them on an electric stove such as Roti.

The reasons for the banning new gas connections are:

  1. Reduce carbon emissions.
  2. Reduce energy bills (Seriously?).

I use 50 Kg LPG a year and it costs $105. How can anyone minimise their electricity cost given the sharp rise in electricity rates and the declining solar feed-in Tariff? If so, shouldn't the VIC government instead outlaw all appliances with an energy rating of 1-3 stars?
The plan could eventually affect current gas connections.

What would you prefer?:

Poll Options expired

  • 377
    I am in favor of banning new gas connections.
  • 420
    I am against it.
  • 16
    Dosn't bother me. I like Trump and Greta both.
General Discussion

Comments

  • jv on 22/09/2023 - 00:40
    -1

    Good luck trying to cook your dinner using an electric stove during the regular power outages we will have in the coming years as demand exceeds capacity…

    • TEER3X on 22/09/2023 - 09:12

      batteries tho

      • jv on 22/09/2023 - 09:37
        +1

        Not enough eneloops to cook my lasagna.

        • AustriaBargain on 24/09/2023 - 00:03
          +1

          Are you Garfield or something?

  • ThadtheChad on 22/09/2023 - 01:03

    Sorry what? You can absolutely cook a roti over a stove. You do it on a tava.

    Something like this:
    https://www.mixandgrind.com.au/prestige-hard-anodised-induct…

  • [Deactivated] on 22/09/2023 - 06:16
    -4

    What's it matter? Dear Dictator will do whatever he wants regardless of common sense, facts, real science, and the angst of the people who elected him. In fact if he thought he could get away with ordering police to knock you to the ground and then pepper spray you in the face for daring to type this post, Dear Leader would (again).

    • GG57 on 22/09/2023 - 08:55
      +5

      The next Victorian state election is scheduled for 28 November 2026.
      Your profile shows that you are in Newcastle; I suppose you could relocate to vote?

      • [Deactivated] on 22/09/2023 - 17:49
        -1

        If you think it would help, why not? ;-D We could get a few thousand on here to do the same, lol.

    • TightAl on 22/09/2023 - 09:10

      Police aren't exactly the smartest mob, I think most officers violate citizens on a daily basis. Nothing new here, not sure if it's a Dan thing.
      I'm not in any way defending Dan.

  • Thaal Sinestro on 22/09/2023 - 06:59
    -5

    "Reduce carbon emissions". This phrase always annoys me. Elemental carbon is very different from carbon dioxide. The concentration of carbon dioxide is 400 ppm; in the air we exhale it is 50000 ppm. If people wish to reduce their carbon dioxide emissions, stop breathing. The world will be a much better place with fewer ecofundamentalists in it.

    Carbon dioxide is plant food. It isn't an evil poison as alarmists claim. The Michaelis constant (concentration for 50% of maximum reaction throughput) for Rubisco (the enzyme in the rate limiting step of photosynthesis) is 5000 ppm. We are actually living during a period of carbon dioxide drought.

  • TightAl on 22/09/2023 - 09:02

    Can Victorians list any good decisions Dan Andrew's has made in the last 9 years?

    • Bman17 on 22/09/2023 - 09:04

      not bidding in to host Olympics ;-)

    • GG57 on 22/09/2023 - 09:34

      Your profile shows you are in Sydney; does it matter to you what Dan Andrews does?
      What about all the other state and territory leaders?

      • TightAl on 22/09/2023 - 10:01

        So instead answering my question you went digging into my profile. Do people really update their OzB profiles? It's not a dating profile lmao.
        FYI I participated in the world's longest continuous lockdown :)

        • GG57 on 22/09/2023 - 10:07

          I didn't go "…digging…" into your profile; it is literally one click on your username.
          As a Victorian, I think that probably 90% of the decisions made by the Dan Andrews Labour government have been good decisions, in my view.
          That is probably why the Labor party keeps getting elected (along with a lack of alternates).

          • TightAl on 22/09/2023 - 10:29

            @GG57: Can you name some?
            Really curious to be honest, I have seen little improvements in the 6 years I've lived here.

            • GG57 on 22/09/2023 - 10:57
              +2

              @TightAl: Cancelled the East West Link project
              Initiated the Level Crossing Removal program
              Initiated the Metro Rail project
              Created First Nations treaty authority
              Apologised for past homophobic treatment by government agencies
              Supported marriage equality
              Established the Voluntary Assisted Dying Act
              Initiated policies to reform handling of Family Violence
              Initiated strategies and plans for gender equality and LGBTIQ+
              Initiated a state disability plan

              I think that the state governments handling of COVID was very good; some others may not agree but the Labor government was returned to power in the subsequent election.

              Perhaps these (and many others) haven't directly impacted on you over the last six years, but the state is a lot better because of these.

              • BobLim on 24/09/2023 - 23:38
                +2

                @GG57: I'll bite:

                • Prioritised politically-convenient level crossings over the top-N "most dangerous and congested"
                • Leased the Port of Melbourne for 50 years
                • Signed up to "Belt and Road Initiative"
                • Dreamt up the Suburban Rail Loop in private, without any consultation or discussion with any planning departments
                • Major cost blowouts on almost all significant infrastructure projects
                • No significant expansions of public transport other than the Metro Tunnel
                • Wasted the best part of 2 years "announcing and discussing" various COVID-related issues rather than actually performing the functions of government (especially D. Andrews)
                • Cancellation of key promised rail upgrades - Geelong, airport, a bunch of others
                • Accepted market-led proposal for West Gate Tunnel (rather than the govt-preferred Western Distributor at about $500M IIRC), and threw lots of extra money at it on multiple occasions (+ delays etc)
                • Committed to an over-scoped North East Link (why are we building endlessly more road capacity if pubic transport and carbon reduction are the way of the future?)
                • Numerous sweetheart deals with developers over existing residents and councils
                • Signed up for and then cancelled the Commonwealth Games
                • The new "Housing Statement" which as best I can tell, will destroy everything that makes existing suburbs desirable or amenable, for the sole purpose of accommodating an extra 1M+ people who don't currently live here (why?), and not provide any meaningful additional services and infrastructure to catch up on existing deficits, let alone effectively serve the increased density
      • Shazam1 on 24/09/2023 - 08:23

        This seems to be your favourite past time. Checking everyone's profile. 😜

    • placard on 22/09/2023 - 09:38
      +3

      Sky News would make you believe that the whole State hates him, the reality is much different. Couple with the Vic Lib party who are beyond useless and have always been, they are not even a viable alternative - and full of RWNJ/fundo religious nuts.

      • TightAl on 22/09/2023 - 10:03
        +1

        The Libs are so dysfunctional and shouldn't have put Matthew Guy forward as their front runner
        Walking through the CBD which i do almost every day, the city is slowly becoming like an American Dem state.

        • callum9999 on 22/09/2023 - 11:29
          +3

          It looks just like it always has to me… Are you sure it's not your internal prejudices determined to find things to justify their existence?

    • drfuzzy on 22/09/2023 - 12:53

      His legacy is marked by bidding on failures and levying and taxing everything.

    • BobLim on 24/09/2023 - 23:09

      Caultield to Dandenong level crossing removals, and the Metro Tunnel (despite how badly managed it's been, it's a good project unlike many others).

      Not much else comes to mind

  • junet on 22/09/2023 - 09:21
    +2

    My gas supply charge went from 74.80c to 115.50c a day and usage 2.145c/mj to 3.146c/mj on 1st Aug. Obviously switched providers to a better rate but still a substantial increase.

    Over the past year changed cooking to a portable induction cooktop from IKEA as I heard it’s quicker & less indoor pollution. Already baked using an easycook so didn’t use the gas oven much. Got a new 7.1kw air con installed replacing an old box wall one & don’t need to use gas ducted heating anymore which put dust everywhere and super expensive to run. And in the last month replaced a 19 year old gas hot water with an iStore heat pump, solar vic also gave a 1k grant for it.

    Now no more need have gas, so booked in abolishment and account closure this week. Happy to have one less bill soon, electricity is cheaper to run, only takes a week to move providers for sign up offers & i can deal with one utility company gouging me not two. Gas had to wait up to 2 months to switch providers for a meter read.

    Even if you don’t care about the environment, it makes financial sense to switch when gas appliances are end of life.

    • Bman17 on 22/09/2023 - 09:27

      The other alternative is to run a cooper line from Kitchen to outdoor LPG bottle (no daily service fees etc). 45 KG LPG bottle costs approx $100 and lasts for up to a year for 2-3 people in a household.

      • placard on 22/09/2023 - 09:37

        That's if you really MUST keep your gas stove - even run on 2x 9kg gas bottles could save even more, lasts a while just running a cooktop (oven electric).

        But for me I didn't want to be burning a gas flame inside. Tried induction and was sold, will never go back. So much easier to clean than gas stoves with all the grates/nooks/crannies.

        • Bman17 on 22/09/2023 - 09:38
          +1

          correct me if I am wrong, from 1st Jan you can't even have a new connection to outdoor LPG bottles for an indoor stove. Bottles connection to outdoor is fine.

          • placard on 22/09/2023 - 09:41
            +2

            @Bman17: No, as I understand it, only connections to the reticulated gas network - ie mains gas.

  • placard on 22/09/2023 - 09:22
    +3

    Lol, I love the outrage this is causing. It's too funny.

    It's for NEW connections/new houses. Existing houses can keep doing what they are doing. If these new houses desperately want gas, put in bottles, no one is stopping you. But the reality is gas is so expensive anyway, why would you?? It's like people are arguing to want to spend more money.

    I've been slowly getting rid of gas appliances over several years now. Back in 2009 had a split system installed and in 2015 another installed, so now both ends of the house are heated/cooled with them, stopped using the gas wall heater. Previous house had ducted gas which cost a bomb to run. These split systems use hardly any power, they are so efficient. In 2019 I got solar PV panels which heavily offset my power consumption. Stove was changed to induction and just a few weeks ago installed a Hydrotherm heat pump hot water system. For a while the gas hot water was the only gas appliance and was costing $600 a year in gas/service fees. This heat pump hot water will pay itself off in three years as I've disconnected the gas. The heat pump uses only a few kWh per day, so efficient. Good riddance.

    After using induction stoves I would never go back to gas. So much easier to clean, quicker to boil water, etc. I do have a gas bottle/wok burner outside for those few times I want to use wok on gas, but use a flat bottomed wok mainly inside. You can't get 'wok hei' on most indoor gas stoves anyway, as the output is too weak. So moot point. I also was not all that happy about burning gas inside and having the fumes go all through my house.

    So, yes, whilst new builds it's being banned, people all over are already voluntarily disconnecting their gas in their droves. When I rang up my retailer to close the account, it was like they'd had non-stop calls for the same reason, straight away knew what I wanted and no issues.

    I would never go back to gas. Regardless of environmental point of view, it's just extremely expensive. Electricity combined with solar, I'm saving so much.

    • GG57 on 22/09/2023 - 09:37
      +1

      Lol, I love the outrage this is causing. It's too funny…It's for NEW connections/new houses

      And it only applies to Victoria.
      So many people from other states or territories with the outrage.

      • Bman17 on 22/09/2023 - 09:41
        -1

        "I don't care about war in other countries because I live in Australia"

        • GG57 on 22/09/2023 - 10:11
          +1

          Quite the leap from a proposed building regulation to a war.

          • Bman17 on 22/09/2023 - 10:14

            @GG57: I mean to say, anyone can have a say regardless they are in the same state or not! That's what the forum is for. Should have used a different analogy though.

            • GG57 on 22/09/2023 - 11:28
              +1

              @Bman17: Of course people can comment, but I don't get the absolute outrage about state-specific building regulations by some who will never be affected or impacted.
              We might as well discuss parking regulations in Paris.

      • placard on 22/09/2023 - 09:43
        +2

        It reminds me of Michaelia Cash screeching about "They are going to force everyone to get rid of your petrol cars/utes". Was a lie. Any changes would apply to NEW cars only, not existing owned cars.

        But again, despite what she screeches, people vote with their feet and car makers are already making their own changes based on projections. Look in the last 2 years how many more electric cars on the road. People are wanting them anyway - why? Because even without solar panels, charging an electric car is much cheaper than fuel prices.

  • kalithreaver on 22/09/2023 - 09:49
    +1

    I think its a good choice, Gas is only going to get more expensive. If i had a choice i would have had no gas setup in my house but our house already had it when we bought it. At least with electricity you can offset some of its usage with solar panels.

    • placard on 22/09/2023 - 10:03

      This is true. You can't general gas in your house, but you can generate electricity, so have some control.

  • Chmmr on 22/09/2023 - 10:04

    Against.

  • Herbse on 22/09/2023 - 10:04

    Nothing can replace cooking food on a wood fire. It's natural, authentic, adds flavour and how it's been done since the dawn of time.
    What happens if your gas connection shuts down? Your family just starves? What a joke!

    -People who didn't want to accept a gas network

  • Pidapipo on 22/09/2023 - 10:06

    I have a deep dark fear of dying in a gas leak. It’s irrational, but I will gladly take electric stove over gas any day ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    • placard on 22/09/2023 - 10:15

      Induction are great for elderly too - no risk of leaving gas on unlit, or heat on - as if no pot on stove, it turns off.

    • idonotknowwhy on 22/09/2023 - 10:49

      Then buy an electric stove lol. And if you can't afford one or are renting, you can probably do an air-fryer + one of those portable plug-in induction plate things I always see when I visit Chinese people.

      P.S. if there's gas leaking, it's hard to miss, really strong stench.

  • capslock janitor on 22/09/2023 - 10:59

    OPPOSED

  • foolsgold on 22/09/2023 - 11:53

    Gas has some advantages. But this is just simplistic policy shifting without giving consumers choice.
    For most consumers electricity only is fine, induction, heat pump hot water.
    But this is effectively killing plumbed in BBQs, gas fireplaces, gas hydronic, gas ducted heating industries.

  • trapper on 22/09/2023 - 12:04

    Reduce carbon emissions.

    This is not correct.

    Gas water heaters have higher energy conversion efficiency compared to electric water heaters.

    So banning gas will actually increase carbon emissions.

    Also our electricity in Australia comes primarily from burning coal, so pollution will be increased by this too.

    • talismansa on 22/09/2023 - 12:33
      +3

      You realise that coal is being phased out right? And it's mainly due to the fact that renewables are now cheaper.
      It is possible that renewables become the primary power source within the next 10 years.
      Wouldn't it make more sense to prepare for the future?

      • trapper on 22/09/2023 - 14:56

        Coal is not being phased out though.

        We have nothing to replace it with.

        Solar is good during the day, but you may have noticed the sun does not shine at night.

        • talismansa on 23/09/2023 - 06:48

          A combination of batteries, wind, hydro, nuclear.
          Just because it's not financially viable now doesn't mean it won't be in 10 years.
          Solar and wind went through the same development.
          Why would you willfully want to rely on coal and gas when there is irrefutable proof of its damage to the climate and causing disasters all around the world?

          Insurance costs have gone up due to climate change. Why doesn't that factor into anyone's decisions?

          • trapper on 23/09/2023 - 09:50

            @talismansa: Batteries, wind & hydro cannot replace coal, it's not a matter of money, it's just not possible.

            Nuclear is the only realistic replacement for coal power , but it is outlawed in Australia with no plans to change that.

            • talismansa on 24/09/2023 - 06:45

              @trapper: Well maybe it's time we changed that by supporting and voting for politicians who isn't afraid of progress?

    • tp0 on 23/09/2023 - 10:12

      You might like to check where we actually get our power from.

      Right now there’s more solar in the grid than coal. An electric hot water heater programmed to run during the day when the grid is mostly renewable is definitely reducing emissions.

      Or a vastly more efficient heat pump unit.

      • trapper on 23/09/2023 - 11:38

        Right now there’s more solar in the grid than coal.

        No. Our electricity is primarily generated by burning coal.

        Solar does help during the day, but at night it's ~80% coal.

        https://opennem.org.au/energy/vic1/?range=3d&interval=30m

        • tp0 on 23/09/2023 - 13:22

          Based on your own source coal only contributes about 65% of grid demand which doesn’t include solar self-consumption. If it did it would be under 50%.

          Coal is being phased out. It’s not some future thing. It’s happening now.

          • trapper on 23/09/2023 - 13:48

            @tp0: It does include solar self-consumption.

            Solar helps in the day as I said (still majority coal though), but take a look at night; 80% coal.

  • diddy50 on 22/09/2023 - 12:05
    +1

    Why remove a safe, reliable and secure energy option from the mix?!
    It is madness!

    • GG57 on 22/09/2023 - 13:33
      +1

      Why remove a safe, reliable and secure energy option from the mix?!

      The reasons are explained in this article:
      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-29/victoria-government-g…

    • placard on 22/09/2023 - 14:16
      +1

      The fact is existing households are disconnecting gas at an increased rate, regardless of what new houses are doing.

      As more and more people disconnect, the service fees for existing users are only going to increase to maintain this network with less and less users.

      Better to jump ship whilst it's incentivised to go to things like split system, solar, heat pump, etc.

      I'm so glad to be rid of gas.

  • seabombs on 22/09/2023 - 15:52

    If you only want gas for cooking just connect to bottles. We go through ~2 9kg bottles per year (household of 3), which is like $70-80 to refill? A natural gas connection only makes sense if you use a lot of gas, I.e. for heating anyway right?

    • placard on 22/09/2023 - 16:16

      I guess could be even cheaper if you refilled at certain camping shops for like $25 each or less.

      Another option is to buy a plug in induction stove to use when you are able to and save the gas even more:
      https://www.ikea.com/au/en/p/tillreda-portable-induction-hob…

    • trapper on 22/09/2023 - 16:25
      -1

      It's not only cooking though, gas is more energy efficient than electricity for generating heat.

      So your hot-water, pool and spa (unless you have heat pump systems for these) will be better off on gas.

      • callum9999 on 22/09/2023 - 21:59

        Currently it is more efficient. When electricity is predominately generated by renewable sources (which it clearly will be by the time gas networks are turned off), it will clearly be more environmentally friendly to use electricity.

        A lot of people claim that it's therefore best to just carry on as we are and sort it out later, but transitions like this take decades. It makes much more sense to begin phasing it out now instead of investing more in gas.

        • trapper on 23/09/2023 - 11:23
          -1

          It make no sense to substitute coal for gas.

          The CO2 footprint of coal is higher, and the pollution is much higher. This is not debatable.

          Once coal is no longer a part of out electricity network then it might make sense to look at reducing our gas use.

          • callum9999 on 23/09/2023 - 12:17
            -1

            @trapper: You're making the blatantly ridiculous assumption that a government dismantling a state-wide gas network for environmental reasons wouldn't also dismantle the coal-fired power stations.

            If your claim is that the increased electricity requirements from a small number of new-build properties not connecting to the gas network would cause significantly higher emissions during the years until that happens than from constructing and installing new gas infrastructure only for it to be dismantled, scrapped and replaced in a decade then that absolutely is debateable and I'd love to see your working.

            • trapper on 23/09/2023 - 14:31

              @callum9999: You're living in a dream world mate.

              What is going to replace our coal power stations in a decade?

              There is nothing planned, nothing under construction, it is not happening.

              We should be building nuclear plants right now, but we are not. That is the reality.

              • callum9999 on 23/09/2023 - 16:12
                -1

                @trapper: No YOU'RE living in a dream world (I said it louder so I win?).

                If your argument is that plans don't get done in reality, there's no point in talking about a plan to stop piping gas to homes, making the entire conversation redundant. After all, we all know it won't actually get done, so there won't actually be any additional reliance on coal at all.

                Mate.

  • steambao on 22/09/2023 - 21:47

    Lets hope GAS stays for at least another 20 years. Just bought a new gas hot water system and gas cooktop. Plus my house only has GAS ducted heating. Running higher amperage electrical cable in old houses will be a big pain in the ass across the country.

    • talismansa on 23/09/2023 - 06:37

      Yes let's keep burning fossil fuels and contribute to climate change just so you can justify your recent financial investment.

    • tp0 on 23/09/2023 - 10:16
      +1

      That was a bit silly. Especially the heating. Reverse cycle systems are vastly more efficient today.

  • kachi on 23/09/2023 - 10:10

    More towards for it and it's for new builds. Working towards building a home powered by electricity only anyway with the use of solar. I understand that having an open flame works better for cooking certain dishes, but yeah would rather have an all electric than a combo of gas + electric, if I want I'll just use the portable stove for it.

  • tp0 on 23/09/2023 - 10:20
    +2

    The stupidity of this whole post being created by someone who doesn’t even use mains gas or live in Victoria.

    No one can stop you hooking up a stove or whatever you want to some LPG bottles. The ban is on connecting to gas networks.

  • Motek Benzona on 23/09/2023 - 11:40

    Nearly 300 morons wanting to revert back to eating raw dog and twigs in this poll

    • callum9999 on 23/09/2023 - 12:18

      Oh the irony…

  • gstfree on 23/09/2023 - 15:57

    Save service to property charges and get large Elgas bottles.

  • Dack Smith on 23/09/2023 - 15:58

    All fossil fuels contribute to global warming and climate change, so needs to be banned completely

    All exports of non renewable resources from Australia must stop right now and we should all switch to solar or wind energy

    If we take the lead, China and the world will follow and emulate us for a better world

    We have to cut our emissions by 90% before 2026 to make a real and quantifiable difference

    We stand with G.T.

    • trapper on 23/09/2023 - 17:30

      All fossil fuels contribute to global warming and climate change, so needs to be banned completely

      The only hope is nuclear power. Without that it is coal, coal, coal for the foreseeable future.

  • SydBoy on 23/09/2023 - 20:49

    Dan is doing more things like dictator does …. he doesn't like and not many buying so just let put a blanket ban on it so people has no choice but to adopt it .. ! Not sure if VIC has any liberal party but if they had good liberal candidate then making Dan lose was easy last election .. in my opinion.. !

    • Eeples on 25/09/2023 - 21:18
      +1

      Obviously not so easy.

      Dan Andrews won with an increased number of seat(s).

      Perhaps it is you (and others like you) who are the ones out of (goose) step.

      • SydBoy on 26/09/2023 - 18:50

        LoL

        https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/australians-react-…

        I am Labor voter and Daniel Andrew never worked as Labor but always had liberal policy in place… ! Covid was the classic example where he slept with liberal policy in NSW instead of doing what other Labor states did successfully…!

        Also, in employment in Victoria he started temporary full time role where people are employed on three year fixed term duration but on wages similar to permanent employee at same level in same organisation so basically he advocated temporary employment over permanent…. !

        City loop rail project was the nail in the coffin…!

        However, Victoria don't have competent liberal leadership and that is why he won nothing else…!

  • Drakesy on 23/09/2023 - 20:56

    Gas lobbyists be like - BuT YoU NeEd Me tO suRVIve.

    the maths speak for themselves.
    Reverse cycle airconditioners - More efficient heaters
    Heat Pump electric hot water - More efficient hot water
    Induction cooktops - More efficient cooking
    Fan Forced Ovens - More efficient baking.

    The only thing you'd probably need a gas outlet for is a wok burner to actually get up to temperature, every other argument is moot.
    Pretty much all residential gas lines are going to be stranded assets and the gas companies are worried they'll cease to exist.

  • trapper on 24/09/2023 - 14:25

    Heat Pump electric hot water - More efficient hot water

    This is true, but this is not what is being legislated.

  • placard on 25/09/2023 - 15:27

    It's quite funny too because large parts of the country never had mains gas to start with and they are doing just fine.

  • Eeples on 25/09/2023 - 21:15

    I thought the reason for banning gas on new installations and the push to remove gas for heating and cooking was that they leak and damage children's and others health.

    There are many studies on the health impacts of gas.

    Here is an article as a starting point.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-health-risks-…

  • payless69 on 26/09/2023 - 22:56

    My wife cooks better Roti with induction.
    Yes it needs suitable cookware but costs are low now.
    Gas combusts into both carbon monoxide and CO2.
    BBQ fires and house explosions are a rising issue.

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