Should Trades Person Include GST on Quote?

YBAF Pilot on 24/12/2023 - 16:44
Last edited 24/12/2023 - 17:18 by 1 other user

G’day peeps, wondering what everyone’s point of view on this situation is.

We are redoing our bedroom flooring by removing the old carpet and then laying down tiles. I have engaged a registered tiler who has been on site to measure and discuss what needs to be done. He has provided a quote via text message, which I accept is not really good practice. An official quote with company name and ABN and QBCC licence number would be better. Anyways he quoted $55 per m2 to lay tiles.

He has done 1 bedroom so far and invoiced me accordingly. However the invoice added 10% GST. I run a landscaping business myself and when I quote a client or mention any amount it is always inclusive of GST, this prevents “bill shock” and the client is then well aware of total cost to them and this prevents silly disputes. So I am a bit gripey due to fact that he is trying to “milk it”. From my perspective the $55 per m2 is the total cost. Otherwise he needed to be clear on the fact that the quoted price is exclusive of GST.

Am I wrong or should I argue this discrepancy with him?

General Discussion

Comments

  • EightImmortals on 24/12/2023 - 16:54
    +5

    Well too late now if he's already done the job. For future quotes just ask him before approval if it includes GST. I would have assumed the $55 was total cost as well. :)

    • YBAF Pilot on 24/12/2023 - 17:15
      +2

      No not too late at all, I can just press him to regenerate the invoice. From a legal point of view I would have a better argument in court. Not saying it is gonna go that far but to just drive the point home.

      • EightImmortals on 25/12/2023 - 11:25

        Are you concerned about the cost or the paperwork?

        So with GST you are paying $60.50 per m2, so I assume that's what you paid him?

        If you were concerned about the extra 10% sticker shock on the quote then fair enough, if the extra amount didn't irk you then I don't know what your complaint is.

        And what 'legal point' would you take the guy to court for?

    • HeWhoKnows on 25/12/2023 - 11:08
      +3

      Well generally all tradies quote PLUS GST

      In other words their price doesnt ever include GST
      So always pays to check but you have your answer already.

      Not to be confused with "retail pricing" which must include GST.

  • loulou1 on 24/12/2023 - 17:01
    +21

    https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/accc-warns-service-sec…
    It needs to be included in the quote given.

    • Almost Banned on 24/12/2023 - 17:56
      +10

      Pretty sure the ANTS Act specifies that if GST is not clearly excluded the price is deemed to be GST inclusive.

  • JimmyF on 24/12/2023 - 17:01
    +13

    Should trades person include GST on quote?

    Law says GST to be included unless its a Business to business quote.

    • YBAF Pilot on 24/12/2023 - 18:08
      +2

      On the nose!

  • CyberMurning on 24/12/2023 - 17:23
    +1

    How about tradies that accept cash only and give 10pct discount ie no gst?
    It's pretty common and I wonder what will happen if ato find out? Will they got banned forever ?

    • loulou1 on 24/12/2023 - 17:53
      +3

      So they save the GST and the income tax, but only give 10% discount.

      • afoveht on 24/12/2023 - 21:53
        +8

        Double crooks, trying to scam the ATO and customer. I've had this offer a few times. If you want me to be part of your tax dodging scheme you should at least offer me a good cut, say 20% discount absolute minimum or GTFO. The fact I won't get an invoice and it makes my life harder if I need to contest the work at some point in the future means the discount should be even more.

    • YBAF Pilot on 24/12/2023 - 18:04

      Well it is off the books then. Every job that is off the books effectively lowers their taxable income. It is also gives them a possible escape if the client is unhappy with the job and requires them to rectify anything related to the job. You will be hard pressed to claim off their insurance as well if anything goes awry. They incentivise this method to the client by saying we will give you a 10% discount, which is no skin of their nose because as they would have had to pay it anyways through GST to the taxman as part of their quarterly BAS statements. So that’s why if it is anything expensive and has the possibility of causing issues down the line then keep it above board with proper invoicing.

      • CyberMurning on 24/12/2023 - 18:24
        +2

        Should we as a good citizen reporting them to ATO or somewhere else?

        • YBAF Pilot on 24/12/2023 - 18:52

          I guess so, I am trying to be an understanding human being as well. Everyone in some shape or form probably tries to beat the system. The bloke is a middle eastern immigrant probably trying to carve out a living. I respect the hustle, but yes it is wrong in the end isn’t it.

          • Protractor on 24/12/2023 - 21:32

            @YBAF Pilot: " Everyone in some shape or form probably tries to beat the system "
            Should be the forum banner

  • YBAF Pilot on 24/12/2023 - 17:24
    +3

    I just had a conversation with him on the phone. He mention to me that the original price quoted was for cash in hand. Which was strange as that was never discussed, and I would not even entertain it as the amount I am paying to retile my house I want on an invoice for insurance purposes. In case the trades person does a shoddy job for whatever reason you have recourse. Also more to the point I have researched his ABN and as a sole trader he is not even registered for GST. I pressed him on this and he asked if I was going to report him. I said no but I want him to be aware that he is being incredibly dodgy. His work seems fine to me, i periodically checked in and seemed ok. But on this basis alone i am not getting him back to the rest of the house. And I feel like telling, he now has to provide me a substantial discount as he is putting me in an uncomfortable position I.e. I now have to find a new tiler during the festive season which is slim to none. The house is a mess with furniture all over the place.

    • Jimothy Wongingtons on 24/12/2023 - 17:27
      +6

      he now has to provide me a substantial discount as he is putting me in an uncomfortable position

      You’re gonna blackmail old mate with offer to dob him into ato or what?

      • Sye on 24/12/2023 - 18:00
        +4

        It's not blackmail, it's OzBargaining 101. Should be posted as a deal "substantial discount on tiling".
        /$

        • Jimothy Wongingtons on 24/12/2023 - 18:01
          +3

          I was more questioning how op plans to guarantee this substantial discount

          Idk but they must be braver than me as I’d prob wouldn’t wanna upset some rando that prob has some unsavoury contacts that’s had all the time in the world to case my place during the time working there

          • YBAF Pilot on 24/12/2023 - 18:18

            @Jimothy Wongingtons: I don’t see it as blackmailing. I can’t even be bothered to report him however one would go about that. But what I am willing to do is leave a negative Google review. In the grand scheme of things a negative review is not a real threat, however as a business owner myself I care greatly about my reviews as I have learned it does impact your business especially as a sole trader. I am therefore inclined to tell him give me a an actual discount for inconvenience caused and because he is being fraudulent plain and simple. His business has been operating for four years and he has about 17 reviews sitting 4.2 stars. I am sure a 1 star review would drag that down a fair bit.

    • Almost Banned on 24/12/2023 - 17:57
      +9

      Hang on - how can someone who is not registered for GST charge GST.
      That is fraud, plain and simple.

      • YBAF Pilot on 24/12/2023 - 18:06
        +1

        Exactly, finally someone hitting the nail on the head. I am dumbfounded by this alone.

        • Protractor on 24/12/2023 - 21:37

          In that case I'm VERY curious as to why you sought this person out? Workmanship,price,non-availability of other tradies?

          There's a massive amount of changes in attitude form the initial; thread to where you now are. Just sayin'.

    • Protractor on 24/12/2023 - 21:35
      -2

      Methinks, you blew it dude.

      • YBAF Pilot on 25/12/2023 - 08:24

        No not really, your opinion in this matter is as useful as an ejection seat on a helicopter. You obviously just want to stir. You much be the grey sprinkle on a rainbow coloured cupcake with that lovely attitude of yours.

        • Protractor on 25/12/2023 - 09:34

          Merry Christmas to you and your tradie mate.Peace on earth.GST to all men. Your next cup cake's on me. ( Or vice versa )

          • YBAF Pilot on 25/12/2023 - 09:45

            @Protractor: Obviously didn’t get that tool box…So let’s get down to the nitty gritty of it all as I am quite curious as to why you are being this aweful for no apparent reason. I know the anonymity of the internet makes it easier, to be foul to each other. Do you revel in that or does it just come naturally to you. Or has something triggered you to spend so much negative energy on this.

            • Protractor on 25/12/2023 - 09:55
              -4

              @YBAF Pilot: Nope, I'm just calling out your attitude , based on how this thread has morphed,and how you went at lightning pace from asking a question here to being live in negotiations as you comment in this thread. Ergo if you know so much about this whole tradie /GST ethics info, why are you at where you're at, where you oscillate from dobbing the guy in, confronting him, "pseudo blackmailing" him, but all the while employing him, expecting him to be peachy about you moving the goal posts. Bottom line at the time he started you were equipeed with the tools to avoid the drama and have a clear sail into job completion land. Good luck, now.Especially if he knows your co-opting advice about it all on the web. Nitty gritty enough?

              • YBAF Pilot on 25/12/2023 - 10:00
                +1

                @Protractor: Wow…just wow… your attitude is amazing. Your parents much be cousins. I am flabbergasted at just how ignorant you can be. I am done with you. You obviously like being rude and just want to look for an argument. Good luck with life princess.

  • Caerdyddblue on 24/12/2023 - 17:44
    +1

    I've having 2 split systems installed in the new year and got a quote via email with no company name, mention of GST etc and felt it was a bit weird. I'm gonna request a legit quote off the back of this.

    My 2 cents worth is it's worth arguing if you're happy to, a lot of "average" people without experience of doing quotes for other people like you have would suck it up as it being usual practice. If you do things by the book then you have the high ground imo, if he loses out on $$ because he's trying to pull a fast one then that's unlucky for him.

    • YBAF Pilot on 24/12/2023 - 18:07

      Yes definitely please get a proper itemised quotes. it will save you headaches down the road.

  • Top G on 24/12/2023 - 18:19

    10% tip 😉

    • YBAF Pilot on 24/12/2023 - 18:21

      Just because he can…lol!! Tipping culture getting out of hand…lol!!

  • Ash-Say on 24/12/2023 - 18:25

    I did some repair work recently and paid around $80 GST.

    On back of this post, I checked and ABN is not even GST registered. Should I pursue for $80 refund?

    • YBAF Pilot on 24/12/2023 - 18:33
      +1

      I would say yes, I fail to see how they even generate a legitimate invoice if they are not GST registered. I just don’t know how they reconcile their books quarterly for the tax man. How can they claim GST on the books if they are not registerd for it. I then have to doubt the legitimacy of the invoice itself…could be a fake and kept a of the books entirely. Surely this can be argued to be fraud as well.

      • Ash-Say on 24/12/2023 - 18:45
        +1

        Just messaged the tradie and the response was I will check with accountant as he was definitely registered for GST last year.

        I checked full ABN history and there was never any GST registration. I totally agree that if they are not GST registered, how can they even charge for it when they dont even pass anything to ATO. I smell fraud here lol

        I will wait for their response as he committed to revert to me within next fortnight due to being holidays.

        • Jimothy Wongingtons on 24/12/2023 - 19:15
          +4

          His ‘accountant ’ is prob his misso

          Hey babe - did u file that gst paperwork?

          Misso: paperwork?

      • AustriaBargain on 25/12/2023 - 01:06

        You don't need to be registered for GST to give invoices. They just aren't tax invoices for GST purposes. You don't need to register for GST if your turnover is less than 75k, though you can opt into it if you wish even with no turnover at all. I think it makes you look more legit if you do opt in, and clearly OZB agrees the number of times people look up ABN and are outraged to find a business or tradie isn't registered for GST.

        • YBAF Pilot on 25/12/2023 - 08:22

          You are 100% correct, but what is being discussed here is the fact that even though he is not GST registered he is charging for GST. That is the problem which you are overlooking. It 100% the owner’s choice if the are below the earning threshold. But they cannot charge GST if they aren’t registered.

  • Protractor on 24/12/2023 - 19:13
    -1

    i'd nitpick AFTER the job's done.That way you can include any other shite that might eventuate in the workmanship.
    Besides, why irritate the guy mid job,it can only end badly. Pencil down as 'next time' lesson.

    • YBAF Pilot on 24/12/2023 - 19:41

      Well a normal tradie would ask for a say a 25% down payment/deposit cover material cost. This bloke did not do that. He has now finished 1 out of 5 bedrooms and probably realised or needed some money up front to do the rest…there could be a plethora of reasons for this. He has now invoice bedroom 1. It is definitely better to discuss this now before the amount is even bigger and the leads to a possible heavier argument.

      • Protractor on 24/12/2023 - 21:05

        Then next time use due diligence. You clearly know enough to have used that, on this occasion.

  • elgrande on 24/12/2023 - 20:11
    +1

    Good luck threatening somone who knows where you sleep.

    • YBAF Pilot on 24/12/2023 - 20:21

      Thank you for your useless comment! You must be one of these dodgy tradies.

      • elgrande on 24/12/2023 - 20:31
        +1

        Its just common sense, but then again, not everyone has it.

        • YBAF Pilot on 24/12/2023 - 20:33
          -4

          You might have to take a dip in that common sense pool yourself so that some of it washes off on you.

          • Protractor on 24/12/2023 - 21:41

            @YBAF Pilot: Looking at the progress of the thread and the unearthing of subsequent details,maybe you should be careful where you fling the rocks in that glass house of yours, dude.

            • YBAF Pilot on 24/12/2023 - 21:44

              @Protractor: What details might you be referring to?

              • Protractor on 24/12/2023 - 21:52

                @YBAF Pilot: Read the thread back in chronological order. From what you said initially to what was added & what we know now..

                • YBAF Pilot on 24/12/2023 - 21:56

                  @Protractor: And what is that you have deduced that has triggered you so much. I am very curious, because you are clearly offended at something which boggles my mind.

  • Drakesy on 24/12/2023 - 21:30

    Has to be inclusive of GST

    • Protractor on 24/12/2023 - 21:39
      -1

      OP should have let sleeping dogs lie (lay) until job was done.

      • YBAF Pilot on 24/12/2023 - 21:43

        You really have a chip on your shoulders…what’s with passive aggressiveness.

        • Protractor on 24/12/2023 - 21:53
          -2

          I'm a realist, mate.

  • AustriaBargain on 25/12/2023 - 01:01

    Is he an older guy? It's a pretty old fashioned thing to do to give prices without GST. Early days of Australian internet businesses that are geared more B2B would not include GST in the price. I guess the logic is that a business customer will get the GST credits back anyway.

  • 82norm on 25/12/2023 - 07:58

    If he’s done a good job, then who gives a sh1te about GST. Insurance isn’t going to ask for details of the tiler if you make a claim. Move on and get the rest of the house done.

    • YBAF Pilot on 25/12/2023 - 08:29

      Do you understand the fact that he quoted $55 per m2 and then invoices $60.50 per m2. Regardless of doing a good job you can’t go and change your quote of the blue and hide behind GST when the initial quote is assumed to be GST inclusive as per the ACCC.

  • Bilby s on 25/12/2023 - 10:02

    This is a typical dodgy strategy to get another 10% out of you. Always ask upfront if it’s including or excluding (cash price).

  • Ridiculous Panda on 25/12/2023 - 11:16
    +2

    I mean besides the fact that I would expect a quote to include gst anyway, charging $55, $66 or $77 or whatever would give me more reason to know for sure it is included.
    Just pay him $55 and don’t be a dick asking for a discount (because he isn’t gst registered) as you mentioned in the comments. That comes across as blackmailing no matter how you spin it.

  • Sinnerator on 26/12/2023 - 09:30

    by law since the start of GST all ad/quoted prices must either include GST or specifically state the price does not include gst

  • OfficerBarbrady on 26/12/2023 - 09:53
    +1

    Definitely report him.

  • snapper17 on 31/12/2023 - 21:22

    did you check if his licence is valid? insurance wont cover you if his not licenced

  • kiitos on 08/01/2024 - 17:32

    Any update?

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