Does an Employer Need to Give Notice How Renewal/Non-Renewal of Max Term Contract?

Ljokingsplits on 23/01/2024 - 17:54
Last edited 23/01/2024 - 22:17 by 1 other user

I work in an office job for a nonprofit in Victoria. My max term contract ends in 2 months and I've been trying to get information from management and hr about whether they still want me to work.

I am still given tasks and am invited to planning days for strategic planning which are 3 weeks out from my contract ending. I have been told 'in principle' my contract will be renewed (technically I'll get an ongoing role because of new legislation) but I haven't seen anything in writing and certainly haven't signed anything. I was told it would be ready by mid Jan, but now 'there's a bottleneck' (HR is garbage)

As you can imagine it's pretty stressful as I need to apply for new roles if I'm going to be unemployed in a couple of months.
Does anyone know if there is any requirement to let me know ahead of time or could they literally present the contract to sign the day the other one is up?

Given this experience I don't know that I'll stay on, but would like to have the security of a contract so I can search properly and not jump at the next thing.

Any thoughts or experience is welcome.

Thanks

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  thatonethere on 23/01/2024 - 17:56

  +1

  My rule is to let fixed term contractors know up front if it is a hard close. Otherwise barring some financial issue 3 months.

  You will just have to ask about how much you are enjoying the role and would there be an opportunity for a new contract.

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    jokingsplits on 23/01/2024 - 18:11

    I've been told there is, my manager is keen to keep me. But it seems to get stuck in hr…. The HR lead is… Toxic and seems to enjoy messing around with people. She is not well respected and a bully… But it's hard to do much when the process is to talk to hr. We also have been rotating through CEO's at the moment so a lot of people are in acting roles and there is confusion.

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  sumyungguy on 23/01/2024 - 18:01

  Is your contract silent on the notice period?

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    jokingsplits on 23/01/2024 - 18:06

    It says 4 weeks for resignation/termination. But it's not clear about if the max term ends. Looking around on fair work it doesn't seem to be clear whether the end of a max term equals termination or not.

    • 

      sumyungguy on 23/01/2024 - 18:10

      +1

      Whether your employer has outsourced or in-house HR, they're obliged to clarify.

    • 

      bobbified on 23/01/2024 - 22:17

      Looking around on fair work it doesn't seem to be clear whether the end of a max term equals termination or not.

      There are exemptions to the new rule. Does your role fit into any of those?

  • 

    stratbargain on 23/01/2024 - 19:13

    +2

    It's a fixed term contract, why would there be a notice period? The end date is known

    • 

      sumyungguy on 23/01/2024 - 19:49

      Sure, if there's no renewal provision then fixed term employees generally don’t receive notice of termination or redundancy if their employment is terminated at the end of the contracted period.

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  Mechz on 23/01/2024 - 18:02

  +7

  Just start applying for other jobs.

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    jokingsplits on 23/01/2024 - 18:08

    +1

    I have, but id like to know if I need to jump at any job or I can 'shop' around a bit. Jobs I'm seeing at the moment are significantly lower in pay/opportunity. And while I'll take them if I have to, I would prefer to know what I'm working with.

    • 

      bobbified on 23/01/2024 - 22:15

      +1

      That's the nature of fixed term roles - if you don't hear anything, assume the End Date of the contract is it and you make whatever necessary arrangements accordingly - whether it's going to secure a role somewhere else (just in case) or getting them to issue new paperwork for whatever they want to offer.

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  tsunamisurfer on 23/01/2024 - 18:18

  I have been contracting for over 15 years.

  Most of the time they will let you know early if its a Yes to continue or no.

  But within 6-8 weeks of the end date I start reaching out to my recruitment agents to gauge the market and put feelers out.

  Fix Term is similar, most of the time if they tell you they will continue it happens even if admin is legit behind. But just in case have a plan b.

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  freefall101 on 23/01/2024 - 20:41

  +1

  I wouldn't trust anything that says in principle that they want to keep you, the manager likes you, etc. End of the day, if there's no budgeted position for you to keep working in they'll let you go so if whoever is higher up won't approve your headcount, you'd be out.

  Laws have also been updated that rolling people on max term contracts makes them a perm employee (it was always insinuated this was the case by the courts but now it's in federal law too). If they've ever extended your contract before or you've been on a 2 or more year contract then it could be the issue. Or they just haven't updated their contracts yet, the new laws only came in Dec 6th.

  In theory you could sue them over unlawful dismissal if you felt like you still had a job and you really didn't, but meetings 3 weeks before you leave really aren't evidence of that. And all you'd get is termination pay (depending on how long you've been there) plus interest. But if you've been there less than 12 months you basically won't get anything anyway.

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  kiriakoz on 23/01/2024 - 20:57

  If your manager wants to keep you, can you put any friendly pressure on him or is he as useless as he seems?

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  dtc on 23/01/2024 - 20:59

  +3

  Your current contract expires when it expires; it’s not relevant to any future contract

  Your new contract is just that - new. It doesn’t exist and there are no laws about when it has to be signed. They can offer it to you at any time and you can agree to start on the commencement date (even if it’s the next day) or not (or not agree to the contract at all). Until it’s signed then there are no obligations on either party. As others have said, the manager may want you but if there is no budget then there is no contract

  TBH your best bet is to start looking and see what’s around. Whether you tell your manager is up to you, you know whether there will be an adverse reaction. But saying you need to start looking for another job unless your next contract is in place is entirely reasonable and perhaps the only way to get them to move on it.

  • 

    AustriaBargain on 23/01/2024 - 21:26

    Is there any reason why they can't offer OP a contract for the next period right now?

    • 

      sandman28 on 23/01/2024 - 22:24

      Apart from internal reasons (eg budget, performance, hr being backlogged etc), no there isn't any reason they couldn't offer OP the contract for the next period right now. The new contract would have a commencement date set as the termination date + 1 (or next business day if a Friday) of the current contract.

  • 

    bobbified on 23/01/2024 - 22:23

    Your current contract expires when it expires; it’s not relevant to any future contract.

    The new laws as of last month says otherwise

    • 

      sandman28 on 23/01/2024 - 22:35

      Only if they plan to renew with another fixed term contract, which as OP has stated they are in principal looking at a permanent offering. In that scenario there is still an employment contract that is offered, just not a fixed term contract.

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    sandman28 on 23/01/2024 - 22:30

    +1

    dtc's post is 100% correct OP. There is no obligation to you from the employer unless your contract specifically outlines a renewal mechanism and any notice requirements for an intent to renew. They have already given you the termination (fixed) date of the contract, which means you will have had effectively 12 months notice (assuming a 12 month fixed term), so they don't need to provide further notice in that respect.

  • 

    jokingsplits on 25/01/2024 - 21:56

    Thanks for the response. Yeah, I hate to do the 'ive got another job… Because everything I see out there at the moment is a step down. But better to have a job than be in the line.

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  Drakesy on 23/01/2024 - 22:23

  read up on the new contract laws before signing again if you do get offered something ;)

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  Hardlyworkin on 23/01/2024 - 22:29

  +1

  s123 of the Fair Work Act 2009 indicates that an employee employed for a specifies period of time is one of the exceptions for which notice if termination doesn't apply.

  To answer you question, no they don't under the relevant Act so it would then come down to something in your contract ( seek legal advice).

  So whilst they may not have to, a good employer would have this sorted. I recommend letting them know you are looking for a new job as you can't take the risk of not being reengaged. Some risk this backfires though hopefully it gives them a kick along.

  Your situation is sadly not uncommon.

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    jokingsplits on 25/01/2024 - 21:55

    Thanks for the response, yes - not uncommon. Thought I might have found a job to step out of the contract game. I've always been told earlier though… Never got this close to the line.

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  GourmetFoodie on 25/01/2024 - 15:15

  Given it’s a not for profit i would assume they don’t have budget but they’re hoping to “figure it out” which is why they’re stringing you along for as long as possible.

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  Jetkuma on 25/01/2024 - 17:06

  Hey OP,

  I was curious about Fixed Term Contract since I work with a lot of FTC in my job. Here are some important bits from Fairwork.

  There are new limitations on FTC for all employers since 06/12/2023. Few important things to note:

  1. Time limitation: You cannot be in FTC for longer than 2 years. This includes any extensions or renewal.
  2. A fixed term contract can't have an option to
     a. extend or renew the contract so that employment period (including the extension or renewal period) is longer than than
     2 years or
     b. extend or renew the contract more than once ( maximum 2 times renewal)
  3. An employer can't employ someone on a new fixed term contract if:
     a. the contract is for mainly same work as previous fixed term contract, and
     b. there is substantial continuity in the employment relationship between the previous and new contracts, and
     c. any of the following:
     
     • total period of employment for the previous contract and new fixed term contact is more than 2 years or
     • the new fixed term contract can be renewed or extended, or
     • the previous fixed term contract was extend, or
     • there was an initial fixed term contract in place (before the previous contract) that:
       *was for mainly same work and
       * there was substantial continuity of the employment relationship between the initial and previous contracts.

  Employers can’t take certain actions to purposely avoid these rules.

  These are called the anti-avoidance protections. These protections include:
  -ending employment or not re-employing the employee for a period of time
  -not re-engaging the employee and employing someone else to do the same or substantially similar work instead, or
  -changing the type of work or tasks that an employee does or changing the employment relationship.

  If an employer does any of these things, it may also be adverse action.

  There are exceptions but it is very niche.

  Here are more information for you if you need source:

  FTC Fairwork

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    jokingsplits on 25/01/2024 - 21:24

    Wow, thank you. That's a great summary.
    I think as people have noted above, it's shitty behaviour but not much doing on the law side, just have to make arrangements and hope for the best.