I am looking at moving a bonus I received into my super from my divorce, into a SMSF but particularly Bitcoin and other crypto.
I just want to try and have a "punt" with the extra money I received into my super fund, but not touch my original cash I earned. So moving approx 150k into Bitcoin and others and leave 400k in my super account. Has anybody set up a SMSF just for crypto ? Anything you learned after going into it ?
SMSF with Crypto, anybody done it ?
LXspoonmanX on 16/02/2024 - 10:16
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My SMSF is buying Boost Sims with >100% cashback.
I hope your hobby is keeping records and filling out paperwork, because that's what this sounds like!
What would you use for mark to market of crypto on June 30th? There’s no official exchange
Oh, I know of a guy that did this. Bought in as BTC was going through the roof. He bought in at about $65k?… market crashed back down to about $19k. Almost lost the lot. It recovered back to about $45k where he sold it taking a massive loss… It's now up to about $80k and he is talking about sinking it all back in because.. again… "to the moon" or some other bullshit coping words crypto-bros like to spew forth…
If you are young and your SMSF is under $100k, YOLO! and throw your hat in the ring… If you're 50+ and have $500k+ Yeah, nah. maybe sink a few $$'s worth that you can afford to lose.
yes i was just going to use the extra money i got from the divorce as play money, leave my major chuck of 400k in my super fund
Why not take a more conservative approach? You received $150k - throw in $100k to standard growth options. Then put in $50k into crypto.
If crypto goes up you'll be happy to have skin in the game. If it falls to the floor you won't be too upset.
Putting all $150k in is like just going to the casino and throwing it all on red. You don't have to gamble it all but you can still throw some in just for a punt.
not a bad idea thanks mate
@DingoBilly But OP is being conservative by risking only $150k of $550k (about a third) which was a windfall anyway.
Do it
The AFR loves writing about SMSF investing in crypto. Most are pretty positive, but I remember one very negative agony aunt scenario (I don’t know if they just make these up). A crypto investment went to zero and they made an illegal early withdrawal.
https://www.afr.com/wealth/personal-finance/help-my-smsf-is-…
The gist is in some circumstances you might have a duty to mange super money in a responsible manner. They point out repeatedly that this is not always the case.
I use Esuperfund. Costs about $1200PA to do all the paperwork + $500pa to the ATO for the privilege. So you'll need to either leave some of the rollover as a cash reserve, shovel $1700pa from your own funds (could be classed as a voluntary contribution taxed at 15%) or cash in $1700 bitcoin each year (+ CGT) therefore fees = 1% of capital PA approx.
From the website:
A SMSF is permitted to invest in any Cryptocurrency (eg Bitcoin).
Clients of ESUPERFUND are permitted to use any Australian based Cryptocurrency Exchange to purchase Cryptocurrency for their SMSF.
Please visit the Crypto Currency page on our website for more information.Could be a good time to buy in with halving coming up soon and the US elections. Emphasis on "could"
GLTA and HODL
I'm going to answer the question posed first and then give an opinion later - FWIW I have SMSF with Stake Super - they're excellent and do everything needed other than selecting the investment options - super easy to setup, 100% paper free, I recommend them highly and can give you link etc to save a few bucks. Did a lot of research prior to setting up with them, they were the cheapest and without getting into minutae they had the best overall offering - this has proven true in our experience with them so far.
I'm on the base SMSF as just ASX listed equities - you'll need the $2499 one, where crypto is allowed:
https://hellostake.com/au/superMy opinion - at $550k you have more than enough to make an SMSF cost viable vs commerical super fund - but it sounds like you're setting up the SMSF just for the crypto, leaving the existing $400k in your current fund? You're copping a LOT of extra fees this route - and would be better either moving the entire lot, the $400k staying in more traditional equities (broad index ETFs etc) while you can play with the $150k into crypto all under the one SMSF fee.
I cannot give specific advice RE: crypto in an SMSF but I'd say if you're setting up an SMSF, make sure it's done properly as you can get yourself into some big problems if you break rules etc governing them. Big fines and the buck will always stop with you.
Worth noting, Stake's fee includes all the initial setup costs and they're one of the few SMSFs who price in a corporate trustee setup, where many others charge extra for these - can be a PITA to compare like & like.
Grow SMSF is good as well (as recommended by another chap). Just wherever you go make sure you have ALL your super with the one place - multiple accounts is daft & expensive.
On a bit of a tangent, but which Australian banks allow transfers of fiat to crypto exchanges without being too much of a pain?
Google it and get back to us. TIA
CoinSpot specific:
- ANZ: 72 hours
- Westpac: within 2 minutes
- NAB / ubank: within 2 minutes
- CBA / Bankwest: 24 hours
Can't speak for others, but I understand Swyftfx is along the same lines.
Coinspot and Swyftx are SMSF approved
Or
https://growsmsf.com.au/cryptocurrency-smsf/#:~:text=You%20c….
why not do the whole lot into crypto? Would look at some of the smaller coins rather than BTC, maybe even look into NFTs if thats allowed - not really sure on how SMSFs work though.
There's a famous expression in investing - essentially stating that the ONLY free lunch in investing is diversification - thus I'd suggest that the OP is adhering to this in having a number of asset classes covered, not just crypto. As is most pundits would say they'd be overly exposed to crypto at such a % of their overall portfolio.
well i guess as long as you are cool with the risks of crypto and its truly just 'fun' money , and open with the real possibility of losing possibly a huge chunk of it in sometimes mere hours, then sure i guess why not.
Bitcoin has had explosive increase in the last few weeks especially (and eth has made a huge comeback).
If you want to just park it in bitcoin and sit and forget for a few decades, I think its a relatively safe bet out of the options.
If you want to go anything riskier you will probably need to also actively watch for news and make some judgement calls?
***not financial advice