Hi, for red meat how to know when the reseller they have pumped/ injected the meat with water?
For example, at one store my wife says releasing a lot of water when pan frying. Same cut of meat at another shop doesn't release the same amount of water.
Thanks
Sorry was referring to other cuts like sirloin
Oh right
I sort of have ocd, around wastage
I prefer my meat not being "moisture infused" (MI" as it means im paying more for less meat and wasting my money
Haha is it possible to buy from a a shop without MI and just MI yourself to "protect from dryness when overcooked"
@bargaino: Mate, i was just replying to your comment
With you stating that it is no secret meat is "MI"
You said "whats the crime"
And i just said i prefer my meat not to be MI?
It seems your the one looking for problems for no reason
I dont buy chicken drumsticks from colesworth anymore, the amount of shrinkage when cooked makes them a rip off
You dont need to inject chicken, just dump it in water for an hour or so
I usually wet brine my chicken, salt and water and when I buy theirs it doesnt really want to brine since its already got such a high moisture content
The numbers on my scale don't lie, people do… I did a test a few month back, for grass-fed beef mince it lost between 25-30% of its initial weight ( from the duopoly supermarket ). Now I mainly buy my meat from local butcher, yes its lost some weight as well, but not as much …
@frewer: As someone else explained, this is affected by aging and other factors. You are making a false assumption that the cause is "injection" or other added water. Did you do a double-blind test though? Control for fat content? Mince varies enormously in how it is made.
@bargaino: Correct - there's sooooooo many variables that such a comparison as stated is indicative of essentially nothing.
Some meats benefit from being properly brined but doing this incorrectly can also ruin meats - I have done (the former) for years & it makes a big difference. Australian consumer law would state that if H20 is being added to increase the weight, it would have to be stated on the packaging of the meat.
@bargaino: Im happy with this "false assumption".
Did you do a double-blind test though? Control for fat content?
This's not a scientific test, so no. I vote with my wallet, they can get stuff :). HAGD
@frewer: last time I looked a local butcher often charged more than 23-30% more than a duopoly supermarket - unless you have a good one who doesn't
@Hangryuman: Let's say they are both ( supermarket vs butcher ) the same weight after being cooked every time. I still choose to support the little guy. Isnt that Aussie spirit is about?
Oh dear.
Pretty sure 2000's want's their sensationalist headline back.
Burgo would like OP to buy some punctuation to end their sentences.
ACA enter the chat
Seeing as I was six years old the first time around.. I appreciate the repost.
Then mince it yourself. You might even find you have to add a bit of water to get the mince through the machine, but certainly not the amount added to pre packed goods.
Sorry refer to other meat such as sirloin
Maybe they're injecting red meat into the water?
Red Bull wants their secret recipe back
the wings allowed it to fly away.
Whilst a conspiracy theory sounds good, the likely reason for it is how long the meat is hung up for after slaughter. For example for beef, this can be from a few days to several weeks. The longer the carcass has been hung for, the less water it will have when cooking. And generally the better it tastes. See this comparison from Farmer to the Fridge (where you can buy meat direct from the farmer) where 500g of mince from the supermarket weighed much less after cooking compared to better mince: https://www.facebook.com/localmeatlocalfarmers/posts/pfbid0E…
Thanks mate
Related was how do you tell when the butcher has add chemicals to make the meat look bright red?
Meat goes red when exposed to air.
When myoglobin comes in contact with oxygen, it forms oxymyoglobin, which has the bright, red colour of beef.
Oh right
So when the middleman adds chemicals to make it appear more bright red/more "fresh" it just means it accelerates and strgethen the colour change process?
You seem to think there's a load of conspiracy theories about red meat mate.
This doesn't happen
@SydStrand: "Gluing" (with some kind of enzymes) small pieces of good meat so they can sell "big" chunks of meat has been a technique used by expensive restaurants, as a big steak cost more than a small steak.
Certainly more in our part of the world than faraway China … that will mostly prefer pork, by the way.
to make the meat look bright red?
Specific (wavelength) lighting was always a technique used on display fridges. So everything looks better.
I would not be buying from a butcher I suspect "tinting" (or injecting) the fresh meat. Full stop.
Thanks for this insight
Yeah my wife like this particular place as we are of same language we wanted to buy from somwhere else thats why i wanted to know how to tell if a butcher has "tinted" the meat
Yeah you make good point. In our chase it was not a suspection. The butcher had actually been fined for "tinting" a while ago
What else makes a butcher good btw?
Also if authorities fining butchers for tinting meat, does that mean the health ramifications are really bad?
@ATTS: You might have visited an auto tinting workshop by accident.
Good butchers tend to yell 'Fresh meat!' when you walk through the door and drop a rather mediocre cleaver after you have finished interacting with them.
i think they use special lights
Yes another user mentioned that
Haha dodgy stuff
For eg
I heard the change room at clothes store the angle or type of mirror (cant remember) makes you look better slimmer than you actually are
@ATTS: yeah there are many marketing ploys, aroma diffusion ect, i used to just take the meat into normal light but as a teen working in a butchery we'd cut open the plastic, and wash and flip it and re package it
just look at the meat in normal light, i found some of the grass fed beef was less watery in supermarkets
@juki: Thanks for the insight
When i been to butchers there is like a display case seperating the butcher from the customer
So i as a customer cant touch or "look in normal light"
The butchers i been, the display case is clear and you tell the butcher what you want, then they weigh it and package it
Yeah so in that process at my past experience i dont think i can look in "normal light" due to the display case
It’s not chemicals it goes that colour after going through the mincer. By the end of the day it looks grey. Mix with new stuff the next day through the mincer and bobs your uncles brother. It’s not off
i think he meant why it looks so red and then not, but yeah it isnt off
yea you gotta age the meat for a bit, that's why i only buy reduced and short expiry
You may have seen TikTok videos of beef being injected with a tonne of water, but it may have been part of the process of brining the meat for making jerky and such.
I generally avoid meats that have a brighter red colour. Worked at a butcher shop.
I see
What colour do you look for beforr purchasing meats?
And could you explain the decolouration process? Ive heard its normal for the meat to change colour to sort of brownish grey colour
And that bright red colour is not natural and bright is caused by the adding of chemicals?
colour wise, want it a nice gray (a tiny amount of green is ok too), but really looking for that nice healthy gray that is what meat used to look like in the days it was more farm to fork rather than all the processed nonsense.
meats that have a brighter red colour.
That colour is caused by absorption of a dangerous chemical. It is a known carcinogen, damages even metals, and was responsible for one of the greatest extinction events in Earth's history.
Yes, we are talking about oxygen.
Just rusting away …
I heard it can even get into the water supply.
Yep, true. It’s why I only drink bottled water
Yeah, and when it gets into the water supply it bonds with another small but highly explosive substance to form one of the deadliest substances known to man: dihydrogen monoxide.
You weren't paying attention in the butcher shop it seems.
I am a qualified butcher and worked as one for 7 years. This thinking is baseless, the colouring primarily comes from oxidisation.
Each morning I would make 20KG of mince, 100% pure beef mince, all the same meat. After making the mince, you tray it up and the outside exposed part of the mince is naturally red. If you sink your hand into it to bag it for a customer, the meat newly exposed to air is a brown colour, while the outside remains red. After time, the brown colour becomes red. It is just how meat reacts to oxidisation.
No big conspiracy. People aren't spraypainting meats or any shit like that…
Logically the price of paying someone to inject water would outweigh any profits made on price per kg.
Not saying its being done for standard meats but its done on conveyor belts automatically usually though for corned silverside from what i understand.
Could be water with brine or salts etc added depending on type of meat.
Oh is that why corned silverside is alot cheaper than silverside
of course it is done for corned silverside, The whole point of that is it is pickled with brine. If you bought corned silverside that didn't have water and salt added you got conned.
if only machines could do the work?
i like meat and i like water, so im fine thanks
Today was a very strange day on OzBargain……
How to know if meat is injected with red water based dye? My information is that the first question is "are you currently in china?"
I've seen a number of credible videos on youtube about this in china, but australia is a bit too regulated for any retailer to attempt this…. and if caught the ramifications for the business would be severe.
Na citizen of this fine country now
Thanks for the insight
But
In regards to regulation
What about ACL rights being mislead by business owners? It seems there are pecuniary penalties for misleading customers in regards to rights under ACL but in my experience the misleading is widespread
If you overcook meat the muscles will tighten and squeeze out the liquids. Perhaps you are doing this?
Nope
The comment i made for the overcook thing was from the facebook page a user posted
I lived in europe decades ago and it was compulsory to show meat content in percentages even on steaks and roasts. Almost all meat is injected with water containing preservatives and colouring and god knows what else. I like to see better labeling rules for meat!!!!
I lived in europe decades ago
BIG place Europe!
Was it Spain? France? Portugal? and other meat lovers country?
Or was it one of those mainly fish eating ones? (with meat being far too expensive).
Holland… but it's very common practise to inject water with additives. I think it must be labeled more clearly, and there is legislation for that apparently….
https://kitchen.nine.com.au/gourmet/what-are-moisture-infuse…
Oh thanks for the insight
I wish Australia would adopt more policies like those you mentioned
I like Australia policy of listing the percentage of australian ingredients
As a citizen of this country i would also like to support the home country of Australia and there farmers
Always buy local if you can (afford it)…
I just looked at the neat at Ciles and nowhere saw anu labeling on content!!!! Only processed meats, but i wanted to see the contents if mince, chops, syeak,… but labels say nothing!!!!
Australia also mask Palm Oil under Vegetable Oil in many food products ingredients list. Palm oil has very high saturated fat compared to vegetable oil such as canola or sunflower oil.
Just sous vude the bugger, she'll be right mate
I know my mates never buy meat from Woolies /Coles/Costco or Aldi. They always buy from the butcher.
I am not an expert on this topic but one of the reasons for watery meat might be because both Coles and Woolworths concede they pump carbon dioxide and oxygen into their ''fresh'' meat packs to limit bacterial growth and extend the shelf-life of their meat.
Supermarkets accused of misleading on'fresh' meat
I know couple of my mates buy meat from Erindale farm butchery. If you read their quality assurance they do mention that they do not use any chemicals or gasses such as carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide or nitrogen to improve the colour or increase the shelf life of our meat Link to the site
BTW I am not promoting Erindale Farm, I am just pointing to you to do your own research before buying meat from anyone.
I don’t know what the problem is with using gases to preserve the meat, if it’s just cling wrapped it’s usually off within a day or so
It is not a conspiracy, carbon dioxide and oxygen will not affect the water content or quality of meat and if anything means you are more likely to get meat that hasn't started to go off by the time you get it home. Coles and Woolies though have historically purchased the cheapest meat they can get and hang it for the least amount of time to reduce time spent in storage which costs money. Hanging the meat tends to dry it out the longer you hang it and hence they will often appear more "juicy" in the supermarket and dryer in a proper butcher. well aged and hung meat tastes better and is more tender, but also more expensive.
Meat is 75% water.
I thought it was murder
delicious tasty murder
The ACCC should know about the excess water in meats as it is a valid case for investigation. I have to add more meat and ingredients to compensate for the extra water so basically it is double cost.
Oh i see
But, 🤔 how do we as general public know about "excess water" besides the news informing about fines for the breaches?
For example like the water in petrol, isnt most time people dont know unless the engine or fuel pump/ components gets really damaged or the company is fined on the news
Also apparent i been hearing the ACCC being called "toothless tigers"
What meat (e.g. beef, pork etc.) was it and how much water came out? It's possible it was "moisture infused" as you mentioned.
I had a discussion with my butcher several years ago about the merits of brine infused chops in particular. Often we purchase items that have been treated this way and we may not even be aware of it. What we are aware of is a juicy piece of pork when we eat it, and it is great that there is labelling to help us make these decisions.
That article links to the Borrowdale Free Range Pork with a FAQ that has this:
WHAT DOES MOISTURE INFUSION MEAN?
Some pork products undergo a process called moisture infusion. This is where a solution of water and mineral salts is pumped into the pork under pressure. This increases the weight of the pork and protects against dryness when overcooked. When pork is cooked correctly to medium with a touch of pink there is no benefit to moisture infusion. Borrowdale Pork is not infused with moisture as it changes the natural flavour of the pork.
Woolworths sells a topside beef roast that is also moisture infused too.
Beef top sirloin
2kg worth released about "1 standard cup" of water
Thanks for the link
Oh is it only some companies and or some cuts of meat Moisture infused?
Oh is there labelling law say they need declare if MI? Like similar to the declaration of % aus ingredients?
Did April 1st get rescheduled this year?
Just wait until you hear about tripolyphosphate and how its used in seafood to bulk up meat with water.
Oh thanks is that similar to feeding with antibiotics to them grow bigger?
It probably says so on the packaging or invoice. It is done for a reason — to make it more succulent when cooked (or overcooked). Meat is going to have a natural range of moisture in it. Would you prefer your meat dehydrated so you get more bang-for-your-buck? Cooking jerky isn't going to yield a nice juicy steak at the end.
Have a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5lAbBHjbs0, especially at 1:16 showing the printed packaging declaring it to be infused. If you don't want that variety, choose one that isn't infused.
I see
Thanks for the link
Oh my pallete is pretty good, it taste the same (yummy) to me from the different places
Both Coles and Woolworths concede they pump carbon dioxide and oxygen into their ''fresh'' meat packs to limit bacterial growth and extend the shelf-life of their meat.
Source:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/national/superma…
I don't really have an issue with carbon dioxide to extend the shelf life of meat. Less wastage.
Does it affect the taste or is carbon dioxide dangerous? If not, no issues with me.
Injecting meat with carbon dioxide generally doesn't significantly affect the taste, as the gas itself is odorless and tasteless. The primary purpose is to slow down microbial growth and preserve the meat. Carbon dioxide is generally recognized as safe (GRAS) for use in food and is not considered dangerous in the small amounts used for this purpose.
That's what I thought, so there's IMO there's no downsides to it.
They don't "inject" the meat with it, they put the gas into the packaging to inhibit bacteria growth. regardless fresh meat is a dumb term as meat should be hung for at least a week or two after being slaughtered, preferably longer, it shouldn't be "fresh".
Just buy dry aged meat if you're concerned about this. You will get what you pay for
Will taste better too!
Unfortunately it will costs twice as much per kg.
but taste 4 times better
Your wife is crowding the pan.
or not letting the pan get hot enough, it's stewing the meat.
this ^ can't believe I had to scroll so far down
use oil with high smoke point (e.g. avocado oil), really hot pan (cast iron anyone?), pat dry the meat with a paper towel, salt and sear
What does 'crowding the pan' and not letting the pan get hot enough do ?
If the pan is overcrowded with meat or the pan isn't hot enough, the meat stews rather than sears.
When it stews, water from the meat leeches out and you almost boil the steak. Steak is grey and watery.
When it sears, the water evaporates quickly so you get a nice crust (and you can still have it pink inside).
You want steaks to have a nice crust as it tastes and looks better (google maillard reaction).
Every seen a grey steak? Not appealing to eat or to look at.
Beef mince and chicken from supermarket has lots of water