What Type of Scam Is This or Is It a Scam? (Facebook Marketplace)

creesy on 28/03/2024 - 00:11
Last edited 28/03/2024 - 09:37 by 1 other user

I'll try to keep this brief, apologies if this is the wrong forum.

So I'm trying to buy a Digital piano on Facebook. I found one I like, messaged the seller arrange a time for a viewing (seller provided his address and phone number).

The item is heavy so I asked the seller if he could help me carry to my vehicle if I decided to purchase or if I should bring someone with me. Seller responded with he had hurt his back earlier in the week and would be unable to help. So I said no problem I will bring a friend to help. Seller asked if it would be ok that on the day I come to look if only I entered the apartment to look at the item and if I agreed the buy then my friend could join me to help remove it. Reason given by the seller was that he has a large dog that suffers from anxiety. I replied with that sounds reasonable no problem.

Today two days before arranged viewing seller contacts me to say he would like to have the item delivered to me because he is worried about having strangers in the apartment because he had a prior incident with his dog (dog isn't supposed to be there it's against strata rules he's worried they will make him remove the dog). Straight away I reply FFS not one of these scams.

Seller then phoned me straight away to explain he would be using professional piano movers and that he did not expect me to pay until after the item was in my posession and I was happy with the condition (item is listed as lightly used new condition no marks or scratches). I then said I would be happy to pay the movers COD, he said no need and was happy for my to pay after receiving if I was happy with the item and condition etc. this strikes me as strange because I estimate this will cost him ~$300 (purchase price is $3900). Seller seemed genuine and said the right things I felt safe because no money would change hands until after item was in my possession. So I provided my address so he could get a quote for delivery (this all occurred after business hours so he hasn't provided a time for delivery yet)

However I'm still uneasy and wondering whether I am being groomed as a potential scam victim. The fact someone would forgoe $300 for the sake of removing the dog from the apartment briefly strikes me as odd. Maybe I'm just cynical because of the high percentage of items on marketplace that are scams.

I'm reasonably safe because there is nothing he can say to me that will make me send him any money before I have possession of the item, but despite how genuine he seemed I'm expecting the next message to be something along the lines of the movers needing a deposit or something (but again he has offered to pay for this)

Maybe he just wanted my address and is sending bikies.

What do you all think? (Thankyou for reading my wall of text it didn't turn out to be brief at all)

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  • grog on 28/03/2024 - 00:16
    -7

    Classic scam tactics

    • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 00:28

      What's the payoff though. I covered all the classic scams in the phone call.

      Told him no money would change hands until after item was in my posession.

      Told him any last minute phone calls for deposits from him or the "piano movers" would not be fallen for because this is a classic scam etc..

      I told him in no uncertain terms that not a single red cent would leave my posession until the item was safely in my posession and if he was comfortable with that by all means go ahead because he would be saving me the trouble of picking it up.

      He still continued the conversation for a good amount of time afterwards. Most of these guy's give up after the word scam is mentioned and move to the next "mark"

      So what's the payoff in your opinion? Getting my address? He has my Name, Phone number and address but there's not a hell of alot you can do with this info. Remember a bygone time we could get a large book which contained most of this information on alot of people.

    • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 00:30
      -1

      What's the next move generally in this "classic scam"?

      Because I'm interested in riding it out just for fun.

      • Pidapipo on 28/03/2024 - 22:41
        +2

        Hey. I work with email and these “piano mover” scams pop up often. So what’s likely happening next is you are contacted (by email) from the “professional mover” who says your piano is in transit, but whatever happens and you need to send them some fund to cover it. They will imitate the name of an actual business (with genuine website), send you update on the way, photos of the piano in the warehouse etc to gain your trust.

        Obviously you will stop responding when they start asking for upfront payment, but why waste your time?

        • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 23:12
          +1

          Turns out this is legit because after I found out the warranty is not transferable and told him I had to pass because of this, he offered to drop the price $500 and was happy for me to pick it up provided it was from the foyer and not his apartment.

          Still gives off bad vibes for me like he's avoiding having me test it at all costs and won't provide his full address so I couldn't even send bikies there if it was broken.

          I've decided to go with my gut and back out and spend the extra money and purchase a new one from a retailer.

          I think this guy may struggle to sell his piano if he's going to be ultra suspicious of buyers. It's several thousand dollars not something people are going to take lightly.

          • Pidapipo on 29/03/2024 - 15:19
            +1

            @creesy: He hurt his back but he will move the piano to the foyer? Yeah nah.

            Obviously I can’t tell you more horror stories from work because privacy, but from what I have seen, seeing “piano” and “mover” from a seller, unsighted = 101% scam.

  • PissLUR on 28/03/2024 - 00:19

    Buyer. Seller. You got them all mixed up.

    • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 00:21
      -1

      Thanks mate its late haha fixed it up…I think

  • sumyungguy on 28/03/2024 - 00:36

    Have you checked the owner's manual for the piano? I purchased a Yamaha Clavinova pre-owned and found it was easily dismantled and I didn't need help to pack it into my hatchback.

    • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 00:42
      -1

      Yeh it's definately easy to break into multiple pieces.

      As stated in the was happy to pick up, but as stated seller has insisted on paying to have it deliver because of a reluctance to having strangers in his apartment. This is generally a scam but he also insisted that no money had to change hands until after I was in posession of happy. Even went as far to try and offers me his linked in and other information to identify him etc.

      I'm just confused because generally these type of scammers give up and move on pretty easily if they even get the hint that the mark might be wise to their antics.

      They also generally pick less obscure items in there scams.

      • sumyungguy on 28/03/2024 - 00:49
        +2

        The thing I'd be concerned about is you taking possession, finding an issue with the condition (either before colllection or transit damage) and then being in a protracted awkward dispute with the seller. I'd just want to inspect the item at his place, negotiate final price, take the item home. After I've met a seller in person I've been happy to PayID and return 24-hours later to collect the item.

        • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 00:54
          -1

          Final price has been negotiated based on stated condition. I asserted on the phone that if it wasn't in the stated condition and function accompanied with the original purchase invoice (it's still in warranty for 4 years). He would be wasting his money and I would not take possession.

          He even said that he was happy for me to take my time assessing Condition and function before paying. I'm leaning towards this being a scam but Im confused as to why he would continue with the phone call and message exchange after I made it quite clear I wasn't going to be an easy mark.

          In my experience these guys just block you straight away.

          • sumyungguy on 28/03/2024 - 01:14

            @creesy: I buy lots of pre-owned stuff privately and from what you've shared it doesn't feel like a scam… because you're not outlaying anything.

            • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 01:17
              -1

              @sumyungguy: I hope not because while it isn't a bargain, it's a fair price and is exactly the model I am looking for. Fingers crossed.

              I'll check in when I have an outcome to share.

              Thanks.

  • MeesusEff on 28/03/2024 - 01:20
    +6

    Doesn't feel like a scam, I personally hate selling stuff from my house too but I don't want to wait all day at a random parking lot either.

    • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 01:23
      -2

      It may not be. It's a shame everyone has to be cautious and cynical these days.

      Because if it's genuine the seller is actually doing me a massive favour at his own expense.

      Thanks for the reply.

  • Lunarboogie on 28/03/2024 - 06:11
    +2

    If it feels even just a little bit off, don't do it. The seller's actions has my spider senses tingling and so I'd walk. But I'm OCD when it comes to this so YMMV.

    • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 07:12

      Yeh I honestly don't know the guy was adamant about identifying himself when I told him it seemed like a scam (in the past this is when scammers generally just give up or turn to poorly worded abuse in broken English)

      The message exchange didn't seem like a standard scam setup

      "Hey mate do you still have this? Is there any marks on the instrument scratch etc? Or doe is present as new?"

      "Hey mate This is still available
      4 years warranty left out of 5 No scratchs, mint condition"

      "Thanks for getting back to me. I might organise to come and have a look. I'm just going to look at a ca79 (previous model) which is a bit closer to my budget first but I do prefer the polished ebony to the satin."

      "No worries, Fair enough, let me know how it goes Cheers"

      As you can seem from the first couple of messages there was no attempt to "get me on the hook" he was quite happy for me to just leave it even though I gave him a prompt to lower the price.

      Interested to see how he plays out maybe he is genuine I don't really have anything to lose at this point.

      • rumblytangara on 29/03/2024 - 14:52
        +1

        That exchange sounds like a scam- your credibility radar is off.

        Anyone who claims 'mint' is likely to be exaggerating. Especially a multi-year owned piano.

        Who even uses that word with a serious musical instrument. Replete with lack of punctuation- generalising here, but someone who's invested enough to buy a reasonably serious instrument and use professional instrument movers is likely to come across as fairly literate. The seller just uses dodgy geezer vocab.

  • jjjaar on 28/03/2024 - 06:32
    +2

    I'll try to keep this brief

    That was brief?

    • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 07:03

      I said I'd try and also apologised for it not being so brief in the last sentence. Obviously it wasn't brief enough for you to get there :)

  • thatonethere on 28/03/2024 - 07:13
    +2

    There is the free piano scam https://familypiano.com/blog/free-piano-scam/#:~:text=Most%2….

  • JIMB0 on 28/03/2024 - 07:19
    +19

    So it's ok for the piano movers to go into the apartment but not you and your friend. Why can't he just put the dog in a bedroom while you're there?

  • randomusername2017 on 28/03/2024 - 07:23
    +5

    I'll try to keep this brief

    Scam

  • Tee Rex Arms on 28/03/2024 - 07:24

    What was his accent on the phone?

    • Hardlyworkin on 28/03/2024 - 07:41

      It was British Aristocrat, stay clear. They are the worst!

      • Chandler on 28/03/2024 - 11:44
        +5

        And German Aristocrats are the wurst!

  • mrdean on 28/03/2024 - 07:30
    +1

    I'd have a pretty good idea from talking to the seller on the phone whether it was a scam or not. You can tell by what they say, don't say & how they say it. Going by what you've written only, in my view the seller is being genuine.

  • solidussnake on 28/03/2024 - 07:48
    +2

    I would atleast reverse image the pictures through google

    • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 08:32

      Yeh I checked this out just a Gumtree ad that's active same name, location, price.

      Unfortunately proves or disproves nothing.

  • CyberMurning on 28/03/2024 - 08:40
    +1

    "against strata rules he's worried they will make him remove the dog"

    ok now you have something to scam him in the future if something goes wrong

  • Sinnerator on 28/03/2024 - 08:52
    +1

    Pretend to be Jehovah's Witness and go knock on his door, barge in, is there a dog and piano there? try not to get eaten by large anxious dog

    But, is the piano stolen or a fake ?

  • pizzip on 28/03/2024 - 09:08
    +2

    Professional piano movers for a digital piano? WTF is this guy smoking?

  • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 09:23

    It does have a value of $5.5k and weighs close to 100kg so while it's no grand piano it isn't really an item that will fit in most cars

    Definately would not be my first choice to pay piano movers. I've actually never had a piano moved by "professionals" that hasn't suffered damage itself or the house it was being moved in to.

    • mrdean on 28/03/2024 - 09:50
      +3

      If you're paying over $5k for it, then I think its perfectly reasonable the seller would be happy to pay a few hundred to have it transported to you.

    • rumblytangara on 29/03/2024 - 13:39

      What digital piano weighs 100kg? Is it a hybrid with all the traditional piano parts plus electronics?

      Heaviest digital piano I've seen is probably 60kg, easily lifted by two adults.

      The whole story just doesn't sound right- if he's got a big anxious dog then how does it matter if it's you and a friend, or a couple of giant sweaty blokes who haul pianos for a living? He's got exactly the same problem either way.

      Unless you're the very first person to contact him about the piano, theres no way this hasn't already been through his mind, so calling up days later is also a bit odd.

  • DingoBilly on 28/03/2024 - 09:23

    I'm not sure how it could be a scam. You basically receive the piano and then decide whether to pay the person or not. It's hard for it to be a scam in that case unless they extort you for money or burgle the house while inside.

    I could also see them paying the piano movers as it's an inconvenient item, the cost is relatively low compared to what you're paying, and you were already going to pick up and then they inconvenienced you.

    If you're unsure I always err on the side of caution to not do it, but besides being a bit unusual nothing stands out as an obvious scam.

    The one thing that stands out as illogical is why you and a mate can't come in to move out, but professionals can do the same thing. I'd try and flag that/ask what's the go there as that makes no sense.

    • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 09:58

      The reason given by the seller was, he has a large dog (German Shepherd) in his apartment which my assumption isn't supposed to be there. The dog suffers from anxiety and gets worked up when strangers are in the apartment (probably barks, so may alert neighbours?)

      He stated that previously he had problems when inviting a friend to his apartment.

      Seems strange but at the same time seems too detailed for a reason from a scammer.

      You're right though I don't really have anything to lose by following this through. I'm supposed to hear from the seller this morning, my expectation is that I won't. I need to purchase a new digital piano ASAP for my study, so either way I would like a conclusion but don't want to jump the gun and purchase something else.

      It will be frustrating on Saturday if I'm waiting for it and get the classic call from the courier asking for a deposit etc.

  • Jetstream on 28/03/2024 - 09:41
    +1

    Ride it out - I want to see what happens. But if you do your balls, I’m not contributing to your Gofundme

    Godspeed!

    • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 09:59

      Haha thanks mate, no GoFundMe will be needed, no many will change hands until I'm satisfied. There is legitimately nothing he on anyone could say to convince me.

  • star-ggg on 28/03/2024 - 09:46
    +1

    It's not a scam, he's not got any other offers or your one is best by far. Large and expensive items arent easy to sell on FB.

    • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 10:01

      Yeh this is my line of thinking also.

      It's just the dog story that doesn't add up. The dog existed when we made the original plan.

      The other thing that doesn't add up is, how is a moving company going to be any less disruptive to the dog?

      • star-ggg on 28/03/2024 - 10:27
        +1

        Maybe he's used the movers before. If you're that worried you should have provided a random address, waited outside with your van and get them to move the piano straight into it.

      • moar bargains on 28/03/2024 - 13:26

        Maybe he's got a friend/relative that can be there for the movers so he can take the dog out. They just point at the piano and say "that's it", but who wouldn't know enough/be able to take the money from you for it?

        Maybe he thinks the movers will be quicker to get it out, and therefore less time in the apartment, less disruptive for doggo?

        I dunno, I'm trying to fit a story to the facts, but it sure is a bit odd.

  • Dollar General on 28/03/2024 - 10:00
    +2

    It’s a Trojan horse

    • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 10:02

      Hahaha terrifying.

    • whyisave on 29/03/2024 - 03:24

      Trojan dog.

  • 87percent on 28/03/2024 - 10:17

    Tell him to wheel into the foyer and you’ll meet him there

  • JIMB0 on 28/03/2024 - 10:24
    +10

    Ask for a photo of the piano with the German Shepard standing in front of it holding today's newspaper.

  • sim777 on 28/03/2024 - 10:46

    I think it should be fine. The only way it could be a scam would be if you received the piano and it ended up not being as described or a fake and you were in a position where you had to renegotiate price or send the item back. Regards to the dog he could be arranging a day for the movers to come when the dog is maybe out for a walk with someone or he feels safer with movers coming to his residence rather than some strangers?

  • kfp187 on 28/03/2024 - 10:47
    +4

    Something doesn't feel right to me… The fact he doesn't want you to come to his place but its ok for removalists. He gets your address and you don't actually know if thats his address.

    Could be a way for him to get rid of a big heavy piano…and because you have it at your place sends people to force payment from you…

    Could be way off and could be genuine… but facebook marketplace is a dark scary place.

    • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 11:16

      Maybe. That's an angle I hadn't thought of.

      I had expected to of heard from him by now. I tried calling no answer but the number isn't blocked though.

      This was my expectation that it may have been a scam and I wouldn't hear from him, but still why bother continuing the charade on the phone after my first words to him were "I'm not going to fall for any type of scam so if that's the intention I probably wouldn't waste your breath".

      Maybe he continued after that because he didn't want the ad reported?

      Who knows I'm going to give it until 3pm and then go to look at another piano, not quite exactly what I want like this one but close enough but I don't have time to wait. Just incase it's genuine I'll send him a message informing him of my intention to not go through with the sale because of the lack of communication.

  • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 11:31
    +1

    Just an update:

    I've had no contact from the seller this morning as was arranged. So at this point I'm assuming it was a scam and he has moved on after realising I wasn't an easy target.

    Just incase there is another reason for the lack of contact I have informed him that I will not continue with the sale if no contact is made by COB (just incase he trys to send the item or something else anyway)

    Will keep you all updated.

  • emblurr on 28/03/2024 - 11:47

    I think if he was fair dinkum about selling it, he would let you in his apartment to get it. As mentioned he said he would let moving people in to get it. No-one outside the apartment block cares about a dog living in his apartment. So his story doesn't check out.

  • Drakesy on 28/03/2024 - 13:32

    So many red flags.

    • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 13:51

      Yeh pretty sure at this point he was trying to scam me but realised it wasn't going to happen.

      Basically has wasted my time before the long weekend to try and get a piano I need for practice and study.

      Would've have preferred the normal barrage of abuse that often comes when you call these people out.

  • Yummy on 28/03/2024 - 14:07

    Dog is good. Nigerian oil rig prince is bad.

    Edit: check seller's profile first.

    • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 14:12

      Profile is locked like most are these days created 5 years ago so that checks out.

      As said before Ive concluded this was a scam attempt, maybe just a poor one. I think you'd have to be pretty gullable to fall for it but I know people do fall for these regularly.

      Luckily it's only my time that has been wasted.

  • El cheepo on 28/03/2024 - 16:19
    +1

    Its such a large and obscure item, I doubt it’s a scam.

    Scammers like high turnover easy to sell items.

    Seems very much like a particularly pedantic and anxious seller.

    • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 16:28
      +1

      You're correct Ive pretty much confirmed it isn't a scam now. Seller has sent me purchase invoice along with a video of the piano I requested, even with a piece request.

      Unfortunately I found out that the warranty is not transferable which makes the price far less attractive. So Ive contacted the seller informing them of this and the price I'm willing to pay sans warranty (which I doubt he will accept, he's probably better of waiting for the next buyer who may not fact check the warranty situation)

      • El cheepo on 28/03/2024 - 16:36

        For large and random items its hard to scam people, but I understand the concern.

        I had a funny one as the seller of a large furniture piece. The buyer was the most suspicious person doing every scam like thing a person could do - making appointments then bailing because of car issues - then making another appointment and bailing because their brothers car broke down and the live far away - not answering phone calls, only txting - asking for delivery and to arrange a courier….

        Tbh i was a big DB in my replies to them as I assumed the whole time it was a scam.

        Long story short, it was legit, they lived 450kms away and paid for a courier and pay id before taking the item days in advance 😂

        • star-ggg on 28/03/2024 - 17:26

          i'm think the seller is still only communicating with OP cause the original agreed price was so high. OP's back and forth is more than I would deal with as a seller.

          • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 17:37
            +1

            @star-ggg: Agreed price was so high? Not at all. $900 below seller asking price and well below retail for something that is essentially mint condition.

            I have sent a total of 5 messages to the seller and had one conversation on the phone.

            If you think it's unreasonable to request a video and invoice when purchasing something sight unseen I doubt anyone would want to deal with you….

            I'm the one stuffing the seller around despite the seller agreeing to pickup organising a time and then reneging after I'd organised someone to help and a vehicle to pick it up in.

            Yeh you're right I'm stuffing him around.

        • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 17:46

          Unfortunately the saturation of scams has made most people including myself ultra vigilant of falling victim (even though for the most part they are bleedingly obvious)

      • sumyungguy on 28/03/2024 - 16:55

        Warranty is on the product not the owner, unless it's a customer-purchased extended warranty.

        • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 17:40

          Interesting I'm just going off of what I was told by Kawai Australia I know consumer law protects certain rights but I'm not sure it would be worth the fight if something went wrong especially since the manufacturer told me unequivocally the warranty wouldn't be honoured.

          • sumyungguy on 28/03/2024 - 17:59

            @creesy: Was that verbal advice or in-writing? If you have the original proof of purchase you're all good. Consider motor vehicles, warranty is on the car and doesn't end if ownership changes. I see Kawai applies this restriction in other countries but it's not lawful here. Anyway, if you make a claim and have a purchase receipt, you can simply act as if you're the original owner.

            • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 18:07

              @sumyungguy: This was verbal advice just a phone call to Kawai I can seem to find anything solid online that confirms or denies it.

              • GJT on 28/03/2024 - 22:00

                @creesy: Send them an email and confirm in writing. This way you have something in your records too if required in the future.

  • bobbified on 28/03/2024 - 17:53
    +1

    When the sellers are shit, people complain. When the sellers try to do the right thing, people still complain. haha

    • creesy on 28/03/2024 - 17:57

      I actually feel bad now knowing he was genuine, because it is a genuinely nice move by offering to pay for delivery and let me pay after the fact. but from the exchange I think you can understand why I was wary.

      Unfortunately because of the non transferable warranty I think he might have trouble selling it for the amount he wants. Bit of a shit move by Kawai, but I'm sure alot of company's do the same.

  • crentist on 29/03/2024 - 02:16
    +1

    Could be fine. I once listed an older, but high spec macbook pro for a pretty high price because I wasn't that eager to sell it.
    After a few weeks, someone down in Tasmania asked if I could ship it to them.
    I told them no way, because obvious scam. They insisted otherwise and the conversation continued.

    A week or so later, a friend of theirs who was visiting Sydney came over and paid cash for it. Worked out quite well.

  • AustriaBargain on 29/03/2024 - 02:45
    +1

    He'd pay more than $300 to ship it interstate if sold on eBay. Anyone who spends $3,900 on a digital piano is bound to be a bit odd. Two strangers in his apartment, maybe he is feeling a bit scared.

    • creesy on 29/03/2024 - 12:08

      I pulled out of the transaction can't be bothered with the million excuses.

      But someone owning an instrument is odd?

      That's a strange take. You do realise what a digital piano is yeh? And that this is very much entry level to mod range pricing…they go up to $20-30k for a hybrid digital acoustic…

  • weee on 29/03/2024 - 12:38

    just curious, what kind of piano is that, a Rhodes?

    I have only followed the story briefly, but from what I skimmed, no money would be exchanged on your end until the piano is at your place right, so why can't you risk it?

    • creesy on 29/03/2024 - 13:34
      +3

      guy kept flip flopping. first his dog was scared, then he was going away for the weekend, then he wanted me to pick it up from the foyer of his building then he offered to deliver it for free.

      I'm now assuming it's the classic "I don't have funds for delivery scam." and the rest was just an attempt to make it seem more legitimate.

      unsurprisingly the number on WhatsApp belongs to an Indian gentleman named Ashmir, profile on Facebook had the name mike and the ad I found on gumtree had the name John.

      It's my belief that this person actually is in Melbourne and does own this piano but is using it to run a classic delivery fund scam. Sending the invoice minus personal details and videos of the instrument to add to the legitimacy.

      or I could be completely wrong and he is just a pain in the arse.

      any who moving on. thankyou everyone for the replies!

      • weee on 29/03/2024 - 14:49

        right, I'm glad you didn't fall for it, good luck on your future hunting, might as well go to a local store to buy new if it's not a rare or vintage one.

      • stumo on 29/03/2024 - 16:07

        Get him to demo it and play a specific request, and show the dog in the clip too?

        • creesy on 29/03/2024 - 16:32

          Haha I should've. After I told him I was going to pass and purchase a new one yesterday, he msged me to float that he sold it for more to someone else

          Strange man.

  • Gen Ice on 29/03/2024 - 14:36

    I am the seller. I see this too. No deal

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