Hello Everyone! I've Been Retailing

LRetailing on 16/05/2025 - 20:09

Long time lurker.
Been in the appliances retail industry for over 15 years now and thought I would start commenting on some of the deals.

There's always common misunderstandings with some appliances or brands etc. on pretty much every website forum that discusses appliances, so thought I would look at providing some information based on my experiences.

Have helped guide people on other forums and thought I might as well do it here as well, since the reality in the Australian market is too many retailers are commission driven so consumers are often mislead to purchase the wrong product.

So overall I hope I might be able to help and feel free to shoot me some questions!

Introduce Yourself

Comments

  • AndyC1 on 16/05/2025 - 20:17
    +1

    White goods appliances or NSWF appliances? Sounds like a joke post….

    • Retailing on 16/05/2025 - 20:19
      +1

      Haha, pretty much done it all from small appliances of kettles and coffee machines all the way to premium large appliances such as Gaggenau, Subzero etc.

      • AndyC1 on 16/05/2025 - 20:20

        So Gerry?

        • Retailing on 16/05/2025 - 20:22

          I don't work for the Harvey Norman group, I did at a point and that would be a great example of a retailer that pushes salespeople to sell you junk based on commission.

          • AndyC1 on 16/05/2025 - 21:14

            @Retailing: And the price match guarantee that is useless as it is a guarantee that Gerry still makes a profit….

            I have bought from one of franchisees once in the last 10 years, but many more from HN owned.franchisee competitors.

            • Retailing on 16/05/2025 - 21:29

              @AndyC1: Yup it's a joke.
              A price match guarantee that has terms that if it is "under cost" they don't have to match is laughable. The cost has "Gerry Tax" on it so you can pretty much guarantee a better deal elsewhere which is why they hate Appliances Online for example.

              • BewareOfThe Dog on 18/05/2025 - 09:27

                @Retailing: The gerry tax or floor cost, used to be known as the tag cost. Than there was the warehouse recovery percentage to help cover warehouse running cost etc.

      • MS Paint on 16/05/2025 - 20:29
        +1

        Subzero

        Do I want a new fridge or use the money to put a deposit on a house. Faaaaark they cost big bucks.

        • Retailing on 16/05/2025 - 20:34

          Yea it is a different world, but relative to the customer and their property demands that level of appliance.
          High end homes have the dream kitchens with Gaggenau Ovens, Subzero Fridges, Qasair Rangehoods etc. heaps more value in these brands then what most people would perceive as the best eg. Miele

      • Gunnar on 16/05/2025 - 20:29

        No Hitachi?

        • Jimothy Wongingtons on 16/05/2025 - 20:32

          Hitachi appliance go brrrrr

        • Retailing on 16/05/2025 - 20:35

          Hitachi and Mitsubishi Electric make great fridges for the freestanding market. The Japanese made models are just an odd size given they are obviously made for a Japanese home but they make "western" sizes and designs and then manufacture those models in places like Thailand.
          Edit : I should also add high end / premium kitchens want integrated fridges not freestanding.

  • AndyC1 on 16/05/2025 - 20:24

    How do the different companies compare w.r.t. trying to get the best bargain on appliances for home like heaters for winter? HN, Bl, OW(if they sell it), Bunnies(if they sell it, nit 3rd party and the MN matches), JB & subsidariary,

    • Retailing on 16/05/2025 - 20:50

      Sorry do you mean how the retailers compare with getting deals themselves from suppliers? Or who's the better retailer to purchase a heater from?

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 16/05/2025 - 20:34

    Did you ever find yourself feuding with the other sales people from rival companies?

    • Retailing on 16/05/2025 - 20:43

      Not really, it just comes down to the salesperson and if they have to work in a commission/kpi driven environment.
      If anything if you are in a commission environment, it can be disheartening to spend hours with someone and they shop around and don't at least give you a chance to price match as you sometimes lose a sale over say $5…

      If you know what you are talking about and sell in a truthful way then I find people just naturally come back to you or even try to find out where you moved to haha.
      I have happily told people to go to other retailers to look at product that you can't physically show them and they come back because you are just being helpful and it's not uncommon they come back and tell you the person they spoke to had no clue what they were talking about.

  • activ8newbs on 17/05/2025 - 00:55

    Can you recommend me a front load washing machine and a two door fridge freezer? We just bought our first home as a couple and need some white goods. Budget friendly and bang for buck. Aesthetics would be nice. But don't need anything fancy in terms of gimmicks. Heck, don't even need water dispenser or ice. I'm happy filling my own trays of ice if needed hehe.

    • Retailing on 17/05/2025 - 01:28

      Do you have any space restrictions for the Washing Machine or Fridge?

      For the Front Loader the stand out would be a new event model by Bosch which is a Bosch Series 2 8KG Front Loader ( WGE03408AU ) on Appliances Online for $637 Delivered.

      The fridge would usually be a size restriction and in a 2 door I would recommend a bottom mount design.
      Hisense has a stand out model at the moment, currently under $800 417L Bottom Mount Stainless Steel ( HRBM418S ).

      I would have to say the only first world problem would be the twist ice maker in the freezer is a bit clunky to put in but at the moment it's about $300 cheaper than it's usual sale price and it's competitors like L.G and Samsung.

      If you have any questions, let me know as there's potentially other options depending on your budget or size constraints etc.

      • samyall on 17/05/2025 - 09:05

        I'm in a similar boat looking for a new washer. I am actually after a washer/dryer combo and I am thinking the Bosch Series 6 Combo. My only question is whether it is worth buying new. Bosch has such a good reputation for longevity and a second hand unit is about $500-$800 that I doubt I'd ever find a new unit that gets close to that. Any chance of a sale bringing it down to ~$1000?

        • Retailing on 17/05/2025 - 14:11
          +1

          Bosch or nearly all B/S/H appliances (Bosch, Siemens, NEFF, Gaggenau) would be very high on my recommendation list, with a reputation of reliability but also the technology behind them is impressive.
          Most people don't understand how big of a company they are outside of appliances world for example. Automotive, Power Tools, Sensors, Rexroth etc.
          It is why they have so many factories and sometimes even share the technology and parts between the industries.

          The Bosch Series 6 Combination ( WNA254U1AU ) would not go down to a $1,000 price point and would sit around $1,500 normally as it has an RRP of $2,099 so constantly at 30% off which with a product like this is all that is left.
          It is one of the biggest reasons sales people in commission environments will try to push you to something other than Bosch as they don't make money on a lot of the Bosch product as it is sold by everyone so the pricing is super aggressive.

          Just in case you have not had a combination machine before I will try to explain things to consider.

          A combination machine is good for if you are stuck for space, the washing cycle side is fine but if you are going to use the dryer a lot it is the downfall when in a combination machine.
          The drying capacity is always rated at about half the wash capacity so in the Bosch example it is 10KG wash and 5KG dry.
          They use a condenser drying system which uses a heating element so is naturally inefficient like a vented dryer but also takes a long time to dry.
          So don't be surprised that it takes 3-4 Hours+ to both wash and dry one load, as an example the quickest wash and dry option is 1 hour for a small 1KG load.
          Because the drying/condenser system is inside the washing machine it needs to be cool down, so they use a large amount of water in the DRYING cycle which on the Bosch is 43L to dry 5KG of garments so your water bill will increase if you use the dryer function a lot and if you compare the specs the Bosch is actually one of the most efficient in this regard.

          So overall, if you are not stuck for space then it is not uncommon people change their mind and purchase a nice washing machine and a basic vented dryer for the price point as it is often going to be a better experience than a combination machine.

          • samyall on 18/05/2025 - 10:08

            @Retailing: Thanks for the detailed write up - that is all very helpful.

            Unfortunately the place doesn't have space for a dryer. There is a vent right next to where it could go (with some new cabinetry) so that is something we will look into but not immediately. I think that just confirms that the best course of action is to buy a secondhand unit and see how we go. If we decide the dryer function is not up to scratch we can look into changing the cabinetry and getting a venting dryer.

  • mrvaluepack on 17/05/2025 - 11:06

    What is the typical profit margin for appliances?
    - for different brands
    - among different retailers - harvey norman, appliances online, etc.

    • Retailing on 17/05/2025 - 16:15
      +5

      High profit appliances are the Agency/Proforma brands which sadly is something we have in Australia and other countries don't have to do with.
      The brand gets to set it's own pricing and the retailer is just an agent that sells it on behalf of the brand.
      This gives the retailer/salesperson a guaranteed large commission which is why you will be pushed into these brands/products and often the brand has inflated the cost when compared to the rest of the world.
      This cost is not only to cover the commission but often the marketing spin for things like direct deliveries to consumer, longer standard warranties, bonus installation services etc. so a lot of marketing spin on what is often not a good product.

      The most commonly known brands that have been doing this are Miele, ASKO, AEG, SMEG, Fisher Paykel, and the list goes on and is growing.
      The biggest problem with this is the consumer being switched from a great product to something completely different and often a worse product for their money.
      I could go on for ages talking about this subject as their are some brands and products that don't abuse this system but majority are just taking advantage or have even switched to become an Agency/Proforma brand just to generate sales rather than provide a better product CoughFisher PaykelCough

      I will say that not every product is terrible under the agency/proforma platform but the vast majority is and you sadly have to be careful as a consumer because of this as it's hard to find a honest salesperson.

      Other non agency/proforma products will often have very little margin and only become cheaper with a sale or promotion as there is a rebate provided by the manufacture for that period to generate sales or move old stock.
      Retailers will often stock their own brands for this reason to have a range that they can't be shopped around on like The Good Guys have cheap brands like Solt or the Harvey Norman group actually own Arisit which imports and sells a terrible product range that has recently re-branded as Whirlpool and was formally Ariston and apart of a group of brands Whirlpool,Ariston,Arisit,Tisira,Thor,Husky etc. so their salespeople have KPI's to sell this junk all the way down to selling you a Thor branded surge protector.

      In regards to retailers, Appliances Online will often be the cheapest as they have large buying power and lower overheads of not having physical store fronts and their pricing is calculated automatically by scraping the market and other variables such as their stock levels.
      You also need to factor standard free delivery and connection and removal of old for certain appliances as that is usually a $80-$110 fee a bricks and mortar store would want to charge.
      They also make a lot of money from their partner company Winning Appliances as it caters for high end consumers and offers much higher end product such as Gaggenau, SubZero, Wolf, Vzug etc. which you won't ever see in your everyday retailer.

      The Harvey Norman group (Harvey Noman, Domayne, Joyce Mayne ) is often the worse for pricing as it is apart of their model to try to seem more premium compared
      to their direct competition of retailers such as The Good Guys.
      The commission structure is designed for profit and their "Cost Price" has "Gerry Tax" so they use a laughable price match promise that just gives them excuses to not match or lose money.
      They have heaps of money to spend to draw people in and are often are the highest spender in advertising in the country, they also use other means like interest free promotions with gift cards to continue drawing people in.
      The stores are still run under a franchise system to control it all and appease share holders.
      They make more money out of other avenues anyway as they own the real estate for most of their locations and buildings such as Homemaker Centre's and other off shoot company like School Locker.

      The Good Guys will often be the cheapest bricks and mortar option as their cost price is not inflated and their staff are not as penalised and more open to price match Appliances Online compared to Harvey Norman.
      They market themselves as the cheaper retailer and there were stages they called their stores "discount warehouses".
      It will be interesting to see how they grow since they have been bought out by the JB group and now E&S Trading, so hopefully they continue to expand I think E&S Trading spreading across the country would be great to shake things up.
      The only downside with The Good Guys is the amount of knowledgeable staff is often lower as they seem to have a lot more casuals than full-time employees and they don't have as large of a range of brands to sell, so you can't purchase a few higher end brands or certain product ranges in their stores.

  • haru on 17/05/2025 - 11:11

    What are the most common misconceptions about brands and appliances that you can share?

  • Retailing on 17/05/2025 - 17:53
    +3

    I would say that the average consumer understandably does not realise what has changed over the years.

    Brands have changed ownership and manufacturing so the logo does not mean much anymore and where certain brands sit in the market and what they are good at might be different.

    Common misconceptions,

    Fisher & Paykel
    They used to be a New Zealand manufacture, they were purchased by Haier during the global financial crisis.
    Product is now made in China, Thailand, Mexico.
    Fisher Paykel was not selling well in the market, but Haier has so much money that they have now turned the majority of the Fisher Paykel product into a Agency/Proforma brand.
    The product price has skyrocketed and salespeople now push people this way because they are suddenly being paid a high commission for it.
    The DishDrawers are a great example, salespeople hated them because of low margin and the issues with them but now they are $300-$400 more expensive and the price is fixed then suddenly they are the great…
    I would rate them for a freestanding fridge but pretty much everything would have a better option, especially now with the price point.

    Westinghouse
    Once an Australian manufactured product, I remember selling their fridges when they were made in Orange NSW.
    They have become a budget brand that is holding onto their ovens being made in Australia but the parts are outsourced anyway.
    They are apart of the Electrolux group which is tiered as ( AEG, Electrolux, Westinghouse, Simpson, Chef ) and they are stronger in other brands they own like Vintec for wine cabinets and Beefeater for BBQ's.

    ASKO
    I would say this is the worst Agency/Proforma product you can purchase.
    It is marketed as a premium product but it is far from it.
    They were originally a Swedish manufactured product that competed with Bosch and Miele, they were and still are a relatively small company and were bought out by Gorenje.
    Manufacturing moved from Sweden to the Gorenje factories in Slovenia and then they were bought out by Hisense.
    Which is why the motto is "Inspired by Scandinavia".
    For the price, quality, performance and customer service I would steer clear of this brand and the reviews reflect it.
    I believe Australia is actually their largest market and it is because of being proforma as they do not sell well anywhere else.

    These are just a few examples, but it's all part of why people say that product does not last like it used to or you go into a store after doing research for product A and the salesperson says buy product B instead because it makes them more money and not actually trying to provide you with a better product.

    I enjoy selling large kitchen appliances and my first question is always if they are wanting everything to be the same brand or are they happy to consider mixing as no one brand is the best at everything.
    When I hear someone say that they have a full Miele kitchen, that just makes me think great you got good product but overpaid and could have had a much better kitchen if you changed maybe your cooktop, rangehood etc.
    They also may not of heard of or been in a retailer that sells better options like a Gaggenau or NEFF oven or a Qasair rangehood etc.

    • simplystu on 17/05/2025 - 20:49

      Asko was never marketed as a premium "high end brand" …

      Infact, has more been marketed towards the lower end - middle income Aussie "battler style household".

      My Asko washing machine lasted a good 10+ years, before it died.

      • Retailing on 17/05/2025 - 22:05

        ASKO has never been priced at a low end - middle or "battler style" ???

        Your machine being over 10 years old would be a great example of what they used to produce as it was around 2013 they change factories and 2018 was the Hisense buy out.

        And as I mentioned, you can just look up the reviews and they speak from themselves.

        https://www.channelnews.com.au/exclusiveasko-fast-becoming-a…

  • JIMB0 on 17/05/2025 - 18:12

    What's your opinion on Mitsubishi Electric? We mainly get the fridges and air-conditioners in Australia. Why didn't retailers bring over their other products such as washing machines, Tv's etc. I'm sure they're also into heatpump hotwater heaters as well.

    • Retailing on 17/05/2025 - 18:44
      +1

      Mitsubishi Electric make excellent refrigerators and air-conditioners and even air purifiers in our market.
      If anything it helped Hitachi justify bringing in their multi drawer fridges into the market since they had the monopoly for so long.
      Mitsubishi also compete with themselves with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries offering air conditioning through trades and Bunnings.

      The problem most brands have is our market is small so the major brands already have to cut-down their range compared to overseas to ensure what they bring in makes sense and will sell in our market.

      So unless you are already an established brand in that category, you need to be bringing in something completely different or game changing which in the laundry market I can't see anything Mitsubishi could provide.
      TV's are dominated by L.G. producing OLED panels, SONY are great but seem to be unsure which way they want to go and Samsung is cheap with too many models but price is what makes them the number one global seller.

      Heat Pump hot water systems are a different realm as they are often sold direct through trade outlets or even commercial divisions.
      Again you already have major players like Rheem, Rinnai etc.
      B/S/H (Bosch) might start to compete more aggressively in Australia in this realm as they purchased Johnson Controls along with Hitachi residential ventilation last year so only time will tell if that starts to expand even further here.

  • qtr pounder on 17/05/2025 - 21:59

    Do you agree that extended warranties are junk?

    • Retailing on 17/05/2025 - 22:38

      Yes.

      There is a small aspect where it can make life easier but overall I wouldn't purchase it myself.
      I have dealt with many ACL claims and have made 1 claim for myself and it's just about realistic expectation.
      I claimed for an L.G OLED TV when they first came out, the screen had an issue outside of warranty and they came to the party to replace the screen.
      Too many people think that by kicking and screaming that it means that they will just get a whole new product and it just doesn't work that way.
      Sometimes it's about meeting half way that the consumer pays for parts and the manufacture for the labour, there are lots of different circumstances and outcomes.

      I think purchasing a warranty comes down to how much downtime it can take to be without a product and would it financially burden them if the product had an issue down the track and if they could afford to purchase the item again in say 5 years time.
      A good example would be someone who is needing to pay off a cheap washing machine over 5 years, it would most likely be in their best interest to have a warranty over that period as the cost of a call out fee for $160 is probably going to be an issue for them if that makes sense.

      I always prefer to purchase better quality product and what has a good reputation.

      The hardest part today is also people's expectation for how long something should last.
      In fact, there is a post on this website of someone upset their Westinghouse house fridge for $2,300 only lasting about 6 years which in my eyes seems normal for quite a few brands but others would expect 10+ years without issue or repair.
      But I would suspect the same issues with people purchasing the Westinghouse of today which the model in that post is made in China compared to the older generation models that were made in Orange NSW which were pretty damn bullet proof.

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