Red Energy Backdating Switch over 52 Days, Forfeiting Bill Credits

Jackolantern28 on 01/11/2025 - 15:56
Last edited 01/11/2025 - 16:06

So I was with momentum energy with a welcome credit. I stayed past my first bill which covered 5 August to 31 August. I switched to red and had confirmation in 26 September but didn't check the billing date (assumed it would be based on estimate like other retailers). No .. got my first bill and it's dated back to 5 August, 52 days before my sign up confirmation and almost 2/3 of a quarter.

if it's legal or not, that actual meter read was ages ago and they can easily switch based on an estimate. I also lose out on non refundable credit if momentum decide to refund me and give red the billing rights from 5 August. First time a churn could burn me.

Has anyone else been able to resolve a similar issue with red energy reasonably after some pushback. So far they told me to contact momentum and said the switch date isn't up to them. Obviously I want to not be refunded by momentum and 52 days backdate seems rather excessive when estimates are permitted.

Any advice?

Home & Garden Electricity

Related Stores

Momentum Energy
Momentum Energy
Red Energy
Red Energy

Comments

Search through all the comments in this post.
  • MS Paint on 01/11/2025 - 15:59
    -4

    Any advice?

    Yes

    Weather

    Whether

  • Muppet Detector on 01/11/2025 - 17:26

    Did you make any payment to momentum for energy consumed between 5 - 31st August?

    Are you saying that you had some kind of physical meter read on or about August 5th effectively bookmarking that as point zero for any future billing charges?

    So Red effectively disregarding your time served with momentum and starting your switch date with them (Red) at August 5?

    Did you comply with Momentum's terms & conditions before swapping over to Red? Sounds to me like you did something to annoy Momentum so they're not recognising that you payed them (or qualified for credit bonuses) for your energy usage btwn Aug 5 & 31.

    • Jackolantern28 on 02/11/2025 - 00:49

      I stayed PAST the first bill. That was the requirement for credit. Paid my first bill as I had some real money owing and still awaiting a final bill as I stayed with them past 31 october. Kept to all conditions e.g. new customer etc.

      If momentum somehow submitted 5 aug to red, then that would be very underhanded and probably worth a chat to EWON.

      Update: checking bill before I was with momentum, and I had an actual read on 1 August. 5 August was a transfer estimate. So yes, Momentum seems to have pretended I was never with them or red reused the same transfer estimate nullifying my contract with momentum. so will be raising that with them then EWON if I get nowhere

      • Muppet Detector on 02/11/2025 - 02:24

        If momentum somehow submitted 5 aug to red, then that would be very underhanded and probably worth a chat to EWON.

        Obviously, I only know things as you are describing them but at face value, it does sound like you and Momentum created a contract.

        This should mean that they have to recognise you as their customer until that contract is somehow dissolved.

        I think this is where you need to focus because it seems like someone has found a way to work around this.

        At a minimum, the fact you were billed until August 31 suggests that they accepted you as a customer until then, and I'm assuming that you did settle that bill to their satisfaction - did you receive some form of receipt for payment or other notification that your payment was accepted or rejected?

        This only moves the goal posts to August 31 unless you can prove the contract was not legally terminated, so doesn't solve everything, but someone at least needs to explain why you are being required to pay twice for the energy you consumed between August 5 & August 31.

        If momentum received/accepted payment until August 31 but nothing further, at best, Red should really only be able to require payment from you for energy consumed from Sept 1.

      • Muppet Detector on 02/11/2025 - 02:35

        So yes, Momentum seems to have pretended I was never with them

        Seems like you can prove that you were, so that's not a problem

        red reused the same transfer estimate nullifying my contract with momentum.

        Maybe they (Red) did, but this doesn't nullify the contract you seem to have had with Momentum.

        If you can prove that you did have a contract with Momentum (sounds like you did), they can't just decide to ignore that and refund you.

        Contracts can only be terminated by one of three ways

        1. Mutual agreement
        2. Performance
        3. Court order.
        • Jackolantern28 on 02/11/2025 - 03:15

          Cheers for the in depth response mate. Seems I'm in a good position to have things adjusted by red and not be left worse off by forfeit of momentum credit due to unreasonable backdating. Will call momentum next week and red again and take things from there :). If red move to sept 1 and my momentum bill becomes first and final (I no longer am eligible for the credit I received) that will be a new problem but I'll deal with it if it happens

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 03/11/2025 - 16:22

          Contracts can only be terminated by one of three ways

          Well that's blatantly incorrect. There's more than 3. You've not referred to frustration or repudiation for example.

          • Muppet Detector on 03/11/2025 - 16:32

            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

            Well that's blatantly incorrect. There's more than 3. You've not referred to frustration or repudiation for example.

            sigh

            Frustration => covered under Court Order

            https://www.australiancontractlaw.info/law/frustration

            Repudiation => covered under mutual agreement

            https://legalvision.com.au/what-is-repudiation-of-a-contract…

            If you revisit the relevant post, I said

            Contracts can only be terminated by one of three ways

            1. Mutual agreement
            2. Performance
            3. Court order.

            https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/17040435/redir

            Anything else?

            • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 04/11/2025 - 08:18

              @Muppet Detector: Repudiation is not mutual agreement, Mr/Mrs Keyboard legal fail.

              • Muppet Detector on 04/11/2025 - 15:12
                -1

                @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

                Repudiation is not mutual agreement, Mr/Mrs Keyboard legal fail.

                Read it again.

                Contract only repudiated if other parties agree…

                https://legalvision.com.au/what-is-repudiation-of-a-contract…

                Anything else?

                • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 04/11/2025 - 20:35

                  @Muppet Detector:

                  Anything else?

                  Yep, you have zero idea what you're talking about.

                  Contract only repudiated if other parties agree…

                  Literally not even quoted in your comment and link.

                  Here you go. Educate yourself.
                  https://www.allens.com.au/insights-news/explore/2023/contrac…

                  If repudiation was only by agreement, it literally wouldn't exist!

                  • Muppet Detector on 04/11/2025 - 21:32
                    -1

                    @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

                    Literally not even quoted in your comment and link.

                    Try Again

                    it really is in there. Having trouble reading today?

                    *"If you believe the other party has repudiated the contract, you have a choice to either:

                    continue on with the contract; or
                    accept the repudiation and elect to terminate the contract.
                    Remember, repudiation does not itself end the contract.Repudiation simply allows you, as the innocent party, to make an election on how you want to proceed."*

                    https://legalvision.com.au/what-is-repudiation-of-a-contract…

                    Yep, you have zero idea what you're talking about.

                    Apparently more than you.

                    Anything else?

                    BTW

                    There's more than 3. You've not referred to frustration or repudiation for example.

                    How about Frustration? According to you, I was wrong there as well…

                    Oh, wait…

                  • Muppet Detector on 04/11/2025 - 21:40

                    @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

                    Here you go. Educate yourself.

                    ROFL did you even read your own link? FMD

                    https://www.allens.com.au/insights-news/explore/2023/contrac…

                    Literally covers both mutual agreement & Court Order IN YOUR OWN LINK

                  • Muppet Detector on 04/11/2025 - 21:49
                    -1

                    @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

                    If repudiation was only by agreement, it literally wouldn't exist!

                    Just to clarify, I never said that repudiation was only captured by mutual agreement.

                    However, even your own link explains the mutual agreement.

                    https://www.allens.com.au/insights-news/explore/2023/contrac…

                    • Jackolantern28 on 05/11/2025 - 15:28
                      +1

                      @Muppet Detector: Update.
                      They offered to cover to 26 September, which more than offsets the non-refundable credit I had lost with momentum. Feel almost guilty but at the same time I shouldn't, they'd have screwed me if they could have.

                      Momentum told me they closed my account as if I'd never been with them.

                      They seemed rather motivated to resolve it BEFORE I submitted my EWON complaint. They didn't seem to understand the lost credit issue despite all this but that doesn't matter. From their perspective they offered free power till 26 Sept. From mine they more than compensated me for lost non refundable credit.

                      • Muppet Detector on 05/11/2025 - 15:49

                        @Jackolantern28:

                        Feel almost guilty but at the same time I shouldn't, they'd have screwed me if they could have.

                        No need to feel guilty if you were truthful and it was something they gave freely!

                        Momentum told me they closed my account as if I'd never been with them.

                        Yeah, that's a bit naughty, but as you've ended up in a better position, not something that you probably want to pursue…

                        So will you be expected to pay for the energy again that you already paid for through Momentum?

                        Wondering if you can go back to momentum and say "where's my refund of money paid to you since you're treating me as if I was never your customer?".

                        I mean, if you were never their customer, how do they justify keeping any money that they collected from you?

                    • Jackolantern28 on 05/11/2025 - 15:29

                      @Muppet Detector: Your name seems fitting 🤣

                      • Muppet Detector on 05/11/2025 - 15:42

                        @Jackolantern28: I was thinking that too, but couldn't decide if that was being rude or if I just wasn't typing slowly enough.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 01/11/2025 - 21:26
    +1

    they can easily switch based on an estimate

    Wrong. Distributor requires an actual read.

    You don't understand the retailer distributor relationship obviously.

    • Jackolantern28 on 02/11/2025 - 00:47

      Distributor requires actual reads, they get them every quarter, and show up on bills as actual not estimate. Electricity (at least in NSW) can be switched any date based on an estimate, usually submitted by the previous retailer. Only when moving in/out you must use an actual read.

    • Muppet Detector on 03/11/2025 - 22:02

      You don't understand the retailer distributor relationship obviously.

      Are you frustrated?

  • thefreelunch on 02/11/2025 - 03:24

    I've had this attempted to be done with a retailer when switching. I'd recommend you get the ombusdman involved immediately and certainly don't listen to what the retailers are going to tell you.

    • Jackolantern28 on 02/11/2025 - 23:43

      Cool will do. Should I write to dispute the bill and withhold part payment (5-31 aug I am double billed and 1-26sept until both can figure out who actually has billing rights for that time).

    • Jackolantern28 on 05/11/2025 - 15:22

      Just mentioning EWON had them offer a credit that covers a much wider period than the double billing and credit forfeited form the previous provider. So I'm better off than if everything had gone to plan to begin with.
      They wanted me to state if I have yet engaged EWON for their records. Seems they really want things sorted at any cost before a complaint is lodged with EWON.

  • thefreelunch on 03/11/2025 - 00:51
    +1

    The ombudsman has previously advised me to pay bills and not let them go overdue. But the retailer may start to lift their game if they know you are lodged a complaint with the ombudsman anyway.

  • lgacb08 on 05/11/2025 - 21:54

    yeah, this seems to be the dodgy practice that NSW endorse, unfortunately. This is due to pure laziness and failure to get everyone onboard with smart meter and get rid of quarterly billing. This practice was unheard of when I was in VIC due to almost every household being on smart meter and monthly billing is the norm. I once had Simply energy did that to me on gas and after a couple of complaint I ended up with 2 month free of winter gas usage.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join