Kids Can't Play on Common Property?

b_sean on 06/11/2022 - 12:35
Last edited 07/11/2022 - 10:34 by 1 other user

Background -

We live in a subdivided lot of units of 2, ours is the rear one. There is no active body corporate. We have longish (20m or so) common drive way. Kids are largely indoors. They hardly play outside (once in a month type event). Even if kids play outside they are mindful of noise and they play downball/catch thrown downs with soft tennis ball.

Our neighbour is a lonely old lady living on her own.

Issue -

Neighbour says that it's not allowed to play on the common property as per "laws".

Does anyone know if there is such a law? How to handle the situation.

Thanks,
Sean.

Home & Garden Strata

Comments

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 06/11/2022 - 12:43
    +7

    Quick google seems to mostly have reference to strata laws that says common property is lot same as public space. You don’t have a body corp so maybe not so straight forward . So there’s that. Might also depend on state as well? Not sure where the ‘lonely old lady’ jab fits in either.

    Best off to just send the kids down to the playground I say.

    • b_sean on 06/11/2022 - 12:48

      Thanks for your reply. We are in VIC. While heading playground sounds great, its not always feasible. We do go to playground mostly though, this situation appears on odd ocassions when we can't.

      • Jimothy Wongingtons on 06/11/2022 - 12:56
        +21

        Spent more time than I care to admit googling but seems no body corp and no agreements mean she don’t have a leg to stand on.

        I always advocate to try and keep peace with a-hole neighbours but it’s up to u, op.

        Try and ask what she’s basing her claims on first I guess. Ps it better be more than ‘Mabo, and the vibe of it’

        • Munki on 09/11/2022 - 10:44

          Maybe she likes the serenity?

    • HeWhoKnows on 07/11/2022 - 12:58
      +18

      Tells her to pull her head in and mind her own business

      There is absolutely nothing she can do about the kids playing outside as long as they are not causing any damage.

      In fact the common property is there for EVERYONE to use as long as you dont leave any personal items there.

      • markathome on 08/11/2022 - 14:59
        +1

        My biggest question would be, is there a safety concern? If someone gets run over, it's not going to be good for anyone involved.

        If there's no safety concern, then there is nothing the neighbour can do. But children do get run over in driveways - it's one of my biggest concerns with young ones.

    • RefusdClassification on 08/11/2022 - 11:34
      +10

      Retired old people usually have no proper hobbies or interests. Their "hobby" is making life miserable for the people around them. I wish it wasn't like this, but it is the truth.

      • johnno07 on 08/11/2022 - 13:02
        +6

        Plenty of young employed people do this too, to be fair.

      • jackspratt on 08/11/2022 - 18:50

        Balderdash.

    • JimmyF on 06/11/2022 - 13:20
      +7

      The bit of interest would be this bit

      Are there any by-laws affecting kids in strata communities?
      Many strata schemes have bylaws placing some restrictions on unsupervised children playing on common property within and outside the building. The purpose of such by-laws is to minimise harm to children, particularly in parts of the common property that may be dangerous such as driveways and car parking areas. Other than for retirement village strata schemes, by-laws are not allowed to restrict or prevent children living in a strata scheme.

      • lunchbox99 on 07/11/2022 - 20:39

        Jimmy Brings… good information

      • CalmLemons on 07/11/2022 - 22:08
        +2

        albeit no body corp active the bigger problem here is is there even active building insurance for the properties if they are all connected, let alone any active insurance at all in order to cover for accidents on the common property.

        If there is no insurance at all, children playing is going to be the least of everybodies worries in that strata.

      • kaleidoscope on 08/11/2022 - 10:16
        -1

        Many strata schemes have bylaws placing some restrictions on unsupervised children playing on common property within and outside the building

        So its like the law that if you leave your car unlocked and are away from it more than 3m, you can get fined

  • bobbified on 06/11/2022 - 12:57
    +33

    Our neighour is a lonely old lady living on her own.

    Kids will be kids. I can't see this ending well though. When your opponent is someone that sits around and has nothing better to do with their time, they can make your life hell.

    • jaimex2 on 07/11/2022 - 16:45
      +9

      What is it with Victorians and being doormats.

      • bobbified on 07/11/2022 - 17:22

        No matter what they've done to you, if you're a young guy accused of doing something to harm an old lady - even if you're acting in self defense - you're more than likely going to be judged to be at-fault.

        In this day and age, it's much better to deal with certain situations the smart way (ie. using your brain).

        • jaimex2 on 07/11/2022 - 17:28
          +2

          At worst she'll make complaints and waste police/council time. Just ignore her.

          • bobbified on 07/11/2022 - 17:41
            -2

            @jaimex2:

            At worst…

            No way that 'complaining' would be the worst. If it was just that, then…easy! But that could just be the beginning! There are some pretty damn unreasonable and shameless people out there who would do anything to get their way.

            • smartazz104 on 08/11/2022 - 13:11
              -1

              @bobbified: So if OP ignores her, what's she going to do, call the police and say children are playing outside?

              • bobbified on 08/11/2022 - 13:21
                -2

                @smartazz104: You've never seen how bad relationships between neighbours can get?

                False accusations are usually the first thing that comes to mind and things can easily turn into a he-said/she-said thing involving the cops from there, followed by lots of little petty things. Not everyone is "reasonable". Things can escalate very easily.

                So if OP ignores her, what's she going to do….

                It's the kids that are playing outside, not OP himself. OP can probably ignore them, but would he then be comfortable letting his kids pay out there if there could be trouble?

                I'm not saying that OP should just give in to her - it's about being prepared for the worst case scenario and deciding whether it's worth risking a bad relationship with this particular neighbour.

                • Shunto on 08/11/2022 - 16:34

                  @bobbified: You're blowing the potential risks out of the water. Pretty simple opportunity cost consideration for OP - benefit of letting kids play on driveway versus any potential conversations to address the neighbour. There's very little that she can do when there's no strata by-laws or legal requirement stopping the kids (or anything else related to the property)

  • brendanm on 06/11/2022 - 13:02
    +17

    Just do what you want, can't fix whingers.

  • b_sean on 06/11/2022 - 13:05
    +27

    Thank you all for your replies. We have enormous respect to the lady considering her age. We (including kids) are always mindful of people around us and wanted to make sure we (especially kids) aren't doing overly wrong to draw her irk.

    • mskeggs on 06/11/2022 - 19:01
      +46

      Old people can be dicks too. Trust me!

      • suzley on 07/11/2022 - 09:25
        +9

        That's true. I'm one of them. :)

        • Ciderfizz44 on 07/11/2022 - 13:41

          Old person or a dick?

          I myself tick both boxes.

      • smurftastic on 08/11/2022 - 12:55

        AS the late, great Terry Pratchett wrote: “Just because someone’s a member of an ethnic minority doesn’t mean they’re not a nasty small-minded little jerk.”
        Just Swap "a member of an ethnic minority" for "an elderly person"

    • redfox1200 on 06/11/2022 - 19:55
      +20

      just because she is old doesn't mean she deserves respect. respect should be earned.

      • filmer on 06/11/2022 - 22:17
        +9

        So what does one need to do to earn the respect that results in being deserving of not being a nuisance 5m from their living room?

        I would say it would be considerate not to play out of the front of their windows given they could be trying to sleep at any time. You don't need to 'respect' someone to be considerate of them, or have empathy towards them.

        • redfox1200 on 06/11/2022 - 23:12
          +6

          yeah 100% agree they should be considerate, which they appear to be as they are mindful of noise and only do it once a month.

          The neighbour didn't say its a noise issue, or raise any complaints, just saying they can't do it.

          but unfortunately you can't control what neighbours do on public property or in their own house. whats the difference if they were doing it in their own backyard and the neighbour still heard the same noises?

          • tolchok on 07/11/2022 - 20:53
            +2

            @redfox1200: ‘[U]nfortunately you can't control what neighbours do on public property or in their own house.’ Actually, you can, it is the tort of Nuisance. It doesn’t sound like what the OP is describing would be enough

        • DiscountForThee on 07/11/2022 - 11:43
          +3

          If someone could be trying to sleep at any point in a day, does that mean that the common property should never be used, by anyone?

        • smartazz104 on 08/11/2022 - 13:12

          Great, OP can buy her a set of earplugs, or turn down her hearing aid…

      • dogboy on 07/11/2022 - 13:46
        -1

        This is true but it is also true that you should respect your elders (unless they do something to lose your respect). I think a lot of young people have forgotten or never taught this rule.

        • dogboy on 07/11/2022 - 16:50
          +3

          Sad reflection on the integrity and ethics of today's youth that this comment is downvoted.

    • tallkid123 on 07/11/2022 - 08:46
      +8

      The old lady doesn't want your respect.

      She just doesn't want to see or hear your children.

      • smartazz104 on 08/11/2022 - 13:13

        So she needs a hobby.

      • McFly on 08/11/2022 - 14:35

        I didn't/don't want to be born, pay taxes, and die.
        YCAGWYW

    • Kangal on 07/11/2022 - 20:14
      +6

      Have you tried giving her cake, sitting for some tea, and having a conversation?

      Elderly people can get lonely, so showing that you are human and decent can go a long way. In fact, you could have her play with the kids. That's sure to give her some endorphins. You never know, you may make an ally that will lookout for your kids when they play :\

    • Hydrool on 08/11/2022 - 07:48

      Has she shown or done anything to warrant your respect though? Age alone is only sometimes a sign that someone should be given respect. After all, just because an karen is old, doesn't mean she's no longer a karen

    • Morphio25 on 08/11/2022 - 15:38

      We have enormous respect to the lady considering her age

      Why? She clearly doesn't have any respect for you or your children. I'd tell her to go take a long walk off a short pier.

    • nikey2k27 on 08/11/2022 - 19:39

      if bake cake or treat drop few off for her if alone at Christmas go drink with her. give her wave and just be nice

  • Stopback on 06/11/2022 - 13:14
    -7

    When people go old and live in one area too long they go weird

    Got told off for using chalk on the main roads

    Got to teach your kids not to just bow down to elderly

    • JimmyF on 06/11/2022 - 13:16
      +16

      Got told off for using chalk on the main roads

      Sounds fair….. Why are you or your kids playing on a main road?

      Got to teach your kids not to just bow down to elderly

      That'll work well for you when you get old!

    • MassEffect on 07/11/2022 - 13:32

      "Got to teach your kids not to just bow down to elderly"

      That's poor parenting advice.

      • ChatCPT on 07/11/2022 - 15:16

        Very unfortunate. swallowed ideal

  • EightImmortals on 06/11/2022 - 13:15

    Tell Old Karen to shut up. Or invite her in for a cuppa and make friends with her. Either was if the kids aren't being destructive or overly noisy then the problem is hers and not yours.

  • JimmyF on 06/11/2022 - 13:18
    +4

    Neighbour says that it's not allowed to play on the common property as per "laws".

    You could ask for a copy of these laws?

    Could be a PL insurance issue.

    I assume this neighbour also uses the common property driveway?

  • skid on 06/11/2022 - 13:30
    +2

    Your neighbour meant "bylaws" which are documented by the body corp. Ask for a copy of the existing bylaws. Highly doubtful that playing or being noisy on common property would be a bylaw. Since the strata consists of you and her, there will not be any chance of this being added as a bylaw because bylaws have to be voted on. I don't think there is much you can do to appease your neighbour. You could ask the kids to play in the middle of the day, say after school, when your neighbour should be awake and as far away from your neighbours property as possible.

  • 191919 on 06/11/2022 - 13:35
    +14

    tell that old bag to hit the bricks

  • Summoner on 06/11/2022 - 13:42
    -4

    Our neighour is a lonely old lady living on her own.

    Not sure why this is relevent. The problem seems to be your kids playing on the shared driveway. Driveway is not a playground. Let your kids play on your property or take them to local park.

    • dtc on 06/11/2022 - 15:40
      +11

      Driveway is not a playground? I used to play cricket on the street all the time; a shared driveway with one other resident hardly seems a big risk nor a major inconvenience to anyone.

        • dtc on 06/11/2022 - 21:56
          +12

          Why not? Your opinion doesn't apply here without justification

        • Assburg on 07/11/2022 - 09:59
          +6

          Seems like you might be better suited to living in an apartment building with 1 apt/floor or in the middle of nowhere.

          Kids playing in the driveway/on a low-traffic road is part of the culture… Shame if your experience varied.

      • cameldownunder on 06/11/2022 - 20:46
        +3

        We play badmington and Basket Ball on the road in front of our house ( Dead End )

    • banana365 on 07/11/2022 - 11:49
      +4

      Driveway is not a playground.

      It most definitely is. Sure, avoid any cars parked there or that are moving along it, but other than that it is totally a valid place to play. Cars have already taken away so much of where kids can play, don't try to push their domain any further.

  • Tiredman on 06/11/2022 - 14:03
    +3

    Some people have nothing better to do.

  • Porker on 06/11/2022 - 14:44
    +7

    It's common property with no owners corporation. You're entitled to use just as much as the neighbour.

    While you may be able to use it, it may be a bit upsetting or feel an invasion of privacy for your neigbour, if for example your kids are playing next to her windows.

    Doubt it breaches any enforceable 'law'.

  • pegaxs on 06/11/2022 - 15:06
    +1

    If she knows so much about the law, ask her to provide you a copy of said law, or a reference so you may look it up yourself.

    When she can’t produce anything, because it doesn’t exist, just small and go back to the status quo.

  • GrueHunter on 06/11/2022 - 15:15
    +6

    "Cool, let me know when you call the police and I'll pop the kettle on"

    • cameldownunder on 06/11/2022 - 20:48
      -1

      Time to play loud music till midnight every Friday and Saturday. See how long she lasts.

  • oscargamer on 06/11/2022 - 16:25
    +2

    Common property means each party has right of access, including your kids to do whatever they want (within reason)

    • pegaxs on 07/11/2022 - 12:39
      +2

      OMG!!! The first time I can say "right of way" and not be triggered by it… :D

  • morse on 06/11/2022 - 18:04
    +18

    Befriend the lonely old lady. Get your kids to do odd jobs for her etc. This may well solve your problem.

    • Quantumcat on 06/11/2022 - 19:03
      +3

      You catch more flies with honey than vinegar!

      • holdenmg on 06/11/2022 - 19:23
        +2

        Why not get a Venus Flytrap? lol

      • serpserpserp on 06/11/2022 - 20:14

        Not unless it is a vinegar fly gun.

      • cameldownunder on 06/11/2022 - 20:49
        +1

        Why do you want to catch them. ZAP them !

      • banana365 on 07/11/2022 - 11:51
        +3

        Never liked that saying as it's really the other way round. We use vinegar fly traps (just a small cup with a bit of vinegar in it) and they work well. An open jar of honey won't get anything in it.

    • mskeggs on 06/11/2022 - 19:06
      +2

      Simplest fix, and makes everything better for everyone.

  • oO0Dam0Oo on 06/11/2022 - 19:06
    +3

    Make her some hash cookies.

    • serpserpserp on 06/11/2022 - 20:15
      +1

      Might code in java instead?

  • DoctorCalculon on 06/11/2022 - 21:06
    +2

    Neighbour says that it's not allowed to play on the common property as per "laws".
    Does anyone know if there is such a law? How to handle the situation.

    When you moved into the property, either as an owner/occupier or renter, you would have been given a copy of the Owners Corporation Rules (aka by-laws) as well the model rules.

    If such a rule was adopted by an unanimous resolution by previous owners / OC members, it would be there.

    There is no active body corporate.

    You would be wasting good money in hiring a professional BC just to manage a 2-lot subdivision.

    • DoctorCalculon on 06/11/2022 - 21:15
      +5

      If such a rule was adopted by an unanimous resolution by previous owners / OC members, it would be there.

      On second thoughts, if such a rule doesn't exist, then point your neighbour to Section 4, Clause 4.1.1 of the Model Rules, which specifically states:

      An owner or occupier of a lot must not obstruct the lawful use and enjoyment of the common property by any other person entitled to use the common property.

  • loropy9 on 06/11/2022 - 21:15
    +5

    Op, if it’s kids play a couple of times a week, no longer than roughly 30 mins each time, you are good. Kids deserve to have childhood too, and large part of the childhood happens in their home. This is why you pay for the home.

    • b_sean on 07/11/2022 - 11:10
      +1

      Its not even couple of times a week, it could 2/3 times a month at the most. Kids play with soft tennis ball (i.e. no soccer or basket ball which can make loud noise while bouncing off the concrete). Kids just throw the ball to each other as a catching practise. So we make sure it's not noisy.

      • thanatos350 on 09/11/2022 - 22:04

        I completely agree with this guy. Aside from enjoying childhood, this kind of play is incredibly important for development. Honestly, having the lady call the police is probably a good thing, because they will likely not entertain her.

        In any other living environment, she'd have to contend with barking dogs, arguments, noisy cars, parties, and the like.

        It's unfortunate that she is distressed though. I recall the phrase "you catch more bees with honey". Perhaps you could win her over somehow, or even have the kids melt her heart when they greet her.

  • Quantumcat on 06/11/2022 - 23:04
    +13

    I feel like to get the best result you need to be empathetic, asking her what about the playing is it that is annoying her and causing her to want to tell you it isn't allowed. Maybe it is something as simple as she likes to take a nap from 1-3pm and they wake her up (so you can suggest you just won't let them out at that time) or the noise of the ball bouncing is really annoying, so you can suggest you'll get a different kind of ball or only play ball games in an area that's further away from her house.
    It is possible the lady didn't choose the best way to approach the problem she was having but that doesn't mean you can't try to solve it in a kind and helpful way, as it could mean the best possible result for both parties. She is most likely wrong about the laws but just ignoring her and continuing to do what you're doing will then get her more irritated and maybe she'll then do something you don't like. Better to make all parties happy if it is possible.

    • b_sean on 07/11/2022 - 11:11
      +1

      We tried our best. Last time kids were playing at 11am in the morning on a weekend.

      • Quantumcat on 07/11/2022 - 14:58
        +1

        What did you do when you tried your best? Did you go over and talk to her in a calm and kind way? She needs to understand that your kids will be playing outside but you are more than happy to reduce the impact on her if she can tell you where the biggest problem is for her.

    • gimme on 07/11/2022 - 17:34
      +1

      You have no place on the internet. What is this weird language you speak?

  • spackbace on 07/11/2022 - 00:20
    +1

    What were they doing and at what time of day for her to crack the shits?

    Had zero back story here…

    • b_sean on 07/11/2022 - 11:12

      Kids play with soft tennis ball (i.e. no soccer or basket ball which can make loud noise while bouncing off the concrete). Kids just throw the ball to each other as a catching practise. So we make sure it's not noisy.

    • kiitos on 07/11/2022 - 11:56

      Yes, need more context.

  • 82norm on 07/11/2022 - 08:03

    Invite her to play down ball, otherwise send in some bikies.

    • McFly on 07/11/2022 - 20:56
      +2

      Do bikies like playing downball?

  • oz4bargain on 07/11/2022 - 08:33
    -3

    If you cant be bothered taking your kids to playground, then they can suffer at home.

    Your kids playing around and making noise moght make you happy, its annoying and disturbing for me.

    • McFly on 07/11/2022 - 20:34
      +2

      Who'd have thought the old lady would be an OzB member and post here?

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