Is the Infringement system appealing process fair?

When you receive the infringement notice for allegedly contravening the law, you basically have three options:
1/ Pay the fine
2/ Seek internal review
3/ Go to court

Provided that you genuinely believe that you have not contravened the law or that you contravened them in such exceptional circumstances for which it is unfair or injustice for the infringement to be enforced, you are only left with option 2 or 3.

Think about it, the enforcing agency (e.g.: police or council or ticket inspector) would have no incentive to seriously consider the internal review and instead, just reject it and direct the matter to court anyway. The reason being is that they know that people will be more reluctant to go to court than them. Firstly, regarding the cost, it is the opportunity cost of the enormous amount of time it takes. To the agency, it is just a normal working day but to an individual, it is a wasted day of not working and not being paid; and it is not just one day but maybe many days. Furthermore, the most the agency lose is the amount of the fine, which they could have lost anyway had they withdrawn the fine at the internal review stage. However, to us, it can be more than the amount of the fine and by saying more, I mean 2 or 3 times higher (the amount fo fine is always less than the maximum amount of fine the court can order). Effectively, the agency don’t bear any financial risks at all when they go to court and an individual bears a large amount of such financial risk.

Furthermore, it can be about the criminal record if the individual is found guilty by the court. On the other hand, the enforcing agency stand to lose nothing from the outcome of the court as there is no criminal record or court proceeding recorded against the agency or the officer in duty if they are found to be wrong.

Effectively, the enforcing agency can just ignore (by not seriously consider the matter upon request for review) and go to court free of mind knowing that they have nothing more to lose. Therefore, why should they withdraw it and instead, why not just try theirluck at court? On the other hand, going to court for an individual is a nightmare in terms of costs of time as well as your police check history. This will translate to the enforcing agency's behaviour in the public, being that they can just go around, fining people randomly and tell them if they have any questions, just go to court to challenge as they don’t care.

I recently challenged my fine with the police officer, who refused to give any explanations whatsoever and instead just tell me to f*** off and challenge in court if I want to (of course, in a polite but un-cooperative manner).

I believe that had there been any additional detriments to the officer in duty if they are found wrong in issuing the fine (maybe criminal record against him…) or had there been a compulsory arbitrage session, the enforcing agency would have been more responsible, carefully and sensible to issue the fine in the first place as well as in the internal review stage.

Do you think the current appealing process for the infringement notice is fair or just a way for revenue raising?

Poll Options

  • 4
    Yes, it is fair. Just leave it as is
  • 11
    Yes, it is fair, but need improvement
  • 0
    No, it is not, just revenue raising. But I just have to and can live with it
  • 0
    No , it is not, it is unjusticeand changes should be made

Comments

  • +2

    The enforcing agency does have incentive to internally review:
    Departments have budgets and these budgets are checked, if there is an officer or area department that spends too much time in court or has a lot more complaints than others than it will be noticed. If they have too many court cases that they lose, it will especially be noticed.

    Although unfair it would be much worse to have it so that people can just challenge the system without some consequence. Or else anyone getting a fine might as well take it to court and that will really cost a lot of money. There should be some barrier in the way, and the incentive that the government uses is money (or gaol time).

    I think the poll question you raised is a false dilemma but I chose my answer according to the spirit of the question. My actual answer would be that it is unfair (because the world is unfair and hugely unfair in your favour since you are in Australia) and revenue raising (because it literally raises revenue) and it needs changes (because everything needs to be evaluated for changes or else society gets stuck and obstinate) but it is a system that works for the majority of people and it is not unreasonable for exceptions to be dealt with in court.

    • +1

      Although unfair it would be much worse to have it so that people can just challenge the system without some consequence.

      I don't even think it's unfair… the OP is implying that it's unfair but fails to propose a better/fairer alternative.
      I know of a few people who have successfully argued their way out of fines using the internal review process so there's no evidence that the Internal Review is a sham that I've seen.

      • I don't even think it's unfair… the OP is implying that it's unfair but fails to propose a better/fairer alternative.

        I don't think the OP has to suggest a fairer alternative. If you had said Newton was wrong but refused to say why you would still be correct. If you had said why Newton was wrong but did not suggest a better model you would still be correct.

        But I am probably being overly-semantic (a fault of mine). If only one person decides that they did not break the law but cannot be bothered to try option 2 or 3 then this specific part of the system is unfair.

        The unfairness is just a result of practicality (or mistakes or intent). These blanket rules just make it more practical to set and enforce laws.

        I know of a few people who have successfully argued their way out of fines using the internal review process

        That is pretty much all that is needed to void the OP's whole line of reasoning.

        • What I mean is that each individual will not be able to control the quality of the internal review process nor have any leverage to force them to take quality seriously. It is just like buying an iphone without warranty at all and the only guaranteed way to get it is go to court. In this case, the analogy would be that the court can only order apple to honour the warranty and nothing more. If the court had the power to order extra penalty from apple, the warranty would be offered in the first place, which is the reality.

      • I did have some suggestions, at the second last paragraph. What do you think?

        • Compulsory Arbitrage is going to add a whole lot of unnecessary costs.
          An opportunity for Arbitrage is available to you through the courts system.
          You will not get a Police Record for taking the case to court to argue your case, even if you lose, provided you pay the fine and court costs.

          If you can prove that the officer was in any way unprofessional in writing out the infringement notice, they will face disciplinary action.
          If the officer was unprofessional but you can't prove it, no amount of arbitrage or other rules would have helped you anyway.

          If you broke a rule, you still broke the rule whether you intended to or not.. suck it up and move on in life!

        • So no police check record if you lose? Are you sure about that?

          I don't have any experience but the other day, I talked to legal aid who advised me that there is a record against your name and that it is a criminal offence so if you lose, things will not look good.

          Of course, I am happy to be wrong

        • Yep, looks like you're right..
          Whether you win or lose it will be recorded. And if you lose that will also be recorded.
          However, the full Police Record isn't released under normal circumstances, so it would be unlikely to show up in an employment check.
          Guess you have to weigh up how picky your potential employers might be and how high level their Police Record access is likely to be.
          Seems unlikely that you'd not get a job for contenting a minor traffic offence.

    • Sorry about the dilemma, what I mean is that for the first option, 100% fair then 75% fair but can be improved to 100%, then 50% unfair (so 50% fair) but still ok to live with it and 100% unfair (0% fair) so the system will need a reform to promote justice

      For the budget, what I think is that there is no requirement externally for the police or inspector to patrol. If there is, it would just be internal so if they have to go to court, the boss just let them go without the need to find someone to replace.

      Of course, if it is on a large scale, it will be scruntized but do you really need it to promote justice for each individual?

  • The trouble with traffic infringements is there is no difference between an intentional breech of the law and an accidental one.

    It is a tax, think of it as that. Some of us have to pay it and some don't. Usually they are just bad luck but in some cases the fine is well deserved and the habitual perpetrators just don't get the message to change their driving habits.

    I was in an unfamiliar residential area once where I didn't know the speed limit so was travelling at 50kph. The following week I got a hefty fine for doing 50 in a school 40 zone!! Never saw any signs, a school or school kids anywhere. Total rip off.

    Some traffic fines cannot be contested under any condition…

    It's life, it's a rip off… pay up, suck it up and move on… :-)

    • I would challenge that speeding fine if I were you. Get someone sitting on the passenger's side to film you driving from the last 50 speed sign to the speed camera, no 40 speed signs/school zone, then it's not a 40 zone.
      Yes, lots of work, but it's the principle.

  • The issue is, most of the time people who contest fines know that they did the wrong thing but are trying to get out of it without having to pay or lose demerit points.

    I wouldn't say that internal review is a bad thing, there have been times where camera errors and that sort of stuff would revoke fines.

  • the enforcing agency (e.g.: police or council or ticket inspector) would have no incentive to seriously consider the internal review and instead, just reject it and direct the matter to court anyway.

    Not all the time…I have challenged parking infringements 3 or 4 times, all with legitimate reasons, they all got withdrawn without going to court.
    My husband has requested leniency with his speeding fine (from speeding camera), the fine was withdrawn, and left with a reprimand.

  • +1

    There can be consequences for the enforcing Agency if the allegations go to Court and the agency cannot prove the offence - if the citizen incurs legal costs in defending the claim successfully the agency can be ordered to pay those costs (not that it happens often). This is one reason why an internal review can (sometimes) work in practice.

    The other thing to understand is that virtually all offences in the infringement system are "strict liability" offences, which means that if you "do the crime" your reasons and explanations are irrelevant and are NOT going to get you off the hook. So, 42 km/h in a school zone = fine and no amount of good explanations or excuses will make any difference.

    My husband has requested leniency with his speeding fine (from speeding camera), the fine was withdrawn, and left with a reprimand.

    This is (or should be) a well known exception in Victoria for speeding charges less than 10 km/h over the limit, where your driving record has been good. See: http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.asp?document_id=10369 Don't know about other States

    And finally, bear in mind that the whole system is constructed by your government to enforce the laws that it has made, that the system is essentially to ensure that the fines are imposed and collected and it is not primarily intended to give the citizen a fair go. If you think you've done nothing wrong and you want a fair go your going to have to fight for it!

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