Opal Journey for UNSW Students. What is a Journey?

shadow131 on 20/01/2015 - 15:58
Last edited 20/01/2015 - 16:56

So when we change from a Bus to a train and train to a bus, Is this counted as 2 trips?

So for a UNSW Students (Assuming child fare=concession fare),

Bus to the station $1.05
Train to the city 2.10/$1.47
Bus from Central to Uni $1.75
Attend more than 60 Minutes of Uni
Bus back to Central $1.75
Train to home station $2.10/$1.47
Bus to home $1.05

Total $9.80/$8.54
Due to the cap of $7.50

Trips counted = 5 or 6 trips depending if it is peak or not.

Is this right?

EDIT

No, this is wrong :(
Its only 2 trips.

Travel

Related Stores

Opal Card - NSW Government
Opal Card - NSW Government

Comments

  • CyberMurning on 20/01/2015 - 16:14
    +5

    hmm someone need to confirm but im afraid changing type of transportation will be counted as 1 trip (but you paid multiple!)
    yes not good.

    • shadow131 on 20/01/2015 - 16:17
      +1

      Oh, so changing modes = still a trip?! :( aw that sucks.

    • Love a bargain on 20/01/2015 - 16:58
      +1

      Yes. Made that mistake. It was my 8th journey of the week. Should have waited an hour before commencing on the second trip. (It wouldn't have been that hard to kill an hour in the City.)

  • retiredfeline on 20/01/2015 - 16:16
    +2

    I discovered this first hand. When you change mode within the 60 minute transfer window, it's a continuation of the same journey but you get charged for the modes separately.

    • shadow131 on 20/01/2015 - 16:17

      Thanks guys.

  • shadow131 on 20/01/2015 - 16:18
    +1

    This is kind of crap. Means my cost will be $7.5 * 4…. 30 dollars compared to my 27 on my multi

    • Love a bargain on 20/01/2015 - 16:54
      +1

      Totally agree that it's silly/ unfair to count different mode of transport as continuation of a journey without providing any discount to the fare charged (i.e. still get charged the normal single fare for each mode of transport).

      However, I wonder if the distance travelled in the two bus trips in each of the journey in the example are added up when calculating the fare (as oppose to looking at them seperately) just as how a bus-to-bus transfer is treated. Anyone tried this?

    • ATangk on 21/01/2015 - 22:52

      All you gotta do is take short trips for no reason. Take a trip into city and stay there for 60min+, then take bus to uni. Repeat on way back home. Reach weekly limit faster. Win.

  • retiredfeline on 20/01/2015 - 16:25

    I think there have been discussions on how to start a new journey by restarting the travel a bit further on by walking.

    • Love a bargain on 20/01/2015 - 16:50

      Thought the system determins whether it is a transfer or not purely based on time lapsed since the previous tap off rather than based on the geographical distance between the two points.

      • shadow131 on 20/01/2015 - 16:52

        i remember something like A->B C->D

        • Love a bargain on 20/01/2015 - 16:56
          +1

          https://www.opal.com.au/en/fares-and-benefits/trip_journey_a…

          A trip is travel on one route, on one mode. When you transfer to another route or service, you are commencing a new trip.
          A journey consists of one or more trips on eligible services where transfers between services occur within 60 minutes*.
          A transfer occurs at the end of a single trip. It is a change of transport mode or route, to another service or route, to continue a journey. Transfers made within a standard transfer time of 60 minutes* combine trips into a single journey.

          • 60 minutes applies to all services except the Sydney Ferries Manly ferry service where the standard transfer time is 130 minutes from tap on.
        • shadow131 on 20/01/2015 - 16:58
          +1

          @Love a bargain:

          No, there was something like. going A->B and A -> B over and over again

        • Love a bargain on 20/01/2015 - 17:04

          @shadow131: Not sure I understand what you're referring to.

        • shadow131 on 20/01/2015 - 17:10

          @Love a bargain:

          Okay i just looked it up.

          So basically the 60 minute limit is if the station you get off at is the station you get back on at with in the 60 min

          What people have been doing

          Trip 1 : head to Erskineville and get off then WALK to MacDonald town (350m)
          Trip 2 : Tap on at Macdonald town, walk back to Erskineville and tap off.
          Walk back to Macdonald town and tap off again

          Such that all your trips are

          Macdonald -> Erskineville
          Macdonald -> Erskineville
          Macdonald -> Erskineville
          Macdonald -> Erskineville

          They don't have the 60 minute limit, meaning if you had a bike or jogged. You can complete it in less than an hour. Only issue is the price cap of $15 for adult.
          At $2.36 off peak, you can only fit about 6 trips in. meaning still 2 or 3 normal priced trips.

        • Love a bargain on 20/01/2015 - 17:17

          @shadow131:

          Interesting. Never heard of that.

          Although you kinda have to live around somewhere where there are two stations in close proximity to each other to pull that one off.

          Doubt the same trick will work on buses as their GPS is not all that accurate in the best of time.

        • amkssg on 21/01/2015 - 00:46
          -1

          @shadow131: Are you sure this works? I am quite sure this is someone's "billiant-but-does-not-work" idea.

          In simple, this does not work. Yes, the system counts it as 3 trips (based on your Macdonald -> Erskineville example), However, your 3 trips still counts as only 1 journey.

          Which means, making multiple trips gives you ZERO financial benefit.

          =====================================
          I know the idea of trips / journeys / caps / etc. are kind of confusing.
          Hopefully, I can simplify it for you.

          For your case:
          (travelling to uni)
          Bus to the station =>> Counts as one TRIP
          Train to the city =>> Counts as one TRIP
          Bus from Central to Uni => Counts as one TRIP
          +++++++++++ The above 3 trips counts as one JOURNEY ++++++++++

          (travelling home from uni)
          Bus back to Central =>> Counts as one TRIP
          Train to home station =>> Counts as one TRIP
          Bus to home =>> Counts as one TRIP
          +++++++++++ The above 3 trips counts as one JOURNEY ++++++++++

          So, in one day, you made only 2 JOURNEYS (which is equal to 6 TRIPS).

          The important thing to remember is, YOU ONLY PAY FOR the first 8 JOURNEYS in a week.
          (Note: Journey, not trip.) - So, it doesn't matter whether you made just 1 trip or 10 trips. As long as the time gap between your TRIPS is not more than 60 minutes, it still counts as the SAME JOURNEY.

        • amkssg on 21/01/2015 - 01:21
          -1

          @shadow131: Ok, I finally understood what you are trying to say.

          Basically, your statement, "So basically the 60 minute limit is if the station you get off at is the station you get back on at with in the 60 min" - is completely FALSE!!! (the 60 min apply even if you do not get back on at the same station.)

          I think the confusion comes about because you assume that by paying multiple fares, you are making multiple journeys. (Which is false.)

          The first thing I have to say is, the fare system doesn't actually make any sense. That is to say, taking more public transport can actually work out to be cheaper than taking less.

          I will use the below journey to explain how this works.
          Train Journey: Epping =>> North Sydney =>> Milsons Point =>> Central

          ===Scenario 1===
          Taking train from Epping to Central without getting off.
          =>>> Counts a ONE trip
          =>>> Counts as ONE Journey
          =>>> Pay ONE train fare
          =>>> (Total Fare: $1.68 for concession off-peak)

          ===Scenario 2===
          Taking train from Epping, get off at North Sydney for Lunch.
          Within 60 minutes, get on at North Sydney for train to Central.
          =>>> Counts a TWO trip
          =>>> Counts as ONE Journey
          =>>> Pay TWO train fare
          ($1.48 for "Epping to Nth Sydney", $0.20 for "Nth Sydney to Central")
          =>>> (Total Fare: $1.68 for concession off-peak, which is the same as Scenario 1)

          ===Scenario 3===
          Taking train from Epping, get off at North Sydney for Lunch.
          WALKED TO MILSONS POINT!!!
          Within 60 minutes, get on at Milsons Point for train to Central.
          =>>> Counts a TWO trip
          =>>> Counts as ONE Journey
          =>>> Pay TWO train fare
          ($1.48 for "Epping to Nth Sydney", $1.18 for "Milsons Point to Central")
          =>>> (Total Fare: $2.66 for concession off-peak, which MORE EXPENSIVE!!!)

          So, your idea of "A->B and A->B over and over again" increases your train fare as well as increases the number of trips, BUT it still counts as ONLY ONE JOURNEY.

          So, doing so is only wasting your time and money, since it only counts as ONE JOURNEY of the 8 required before getting free trips.

        • toniyellow on 21/01/2015 - 13:17

          @bsmksg:

          I think there are exceptions. The 60 minutes is only when you "resume your journey"

          On the opal website it is clear for light rail, 60 minute transfers are only at the same stop, or the closest two stops in either direction. So if you walked to a stop three stops away in less than 60 minutes, you wouldn't get a transfer, you would start a new journey.
          https://www.opal.com.au/en/where-can-i-use-it/what-services-…

          They are less clear about what resuming a journey is on buses and trains. These guys show the MacDonaldtown Erskineville hack.

          http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2014/11/how-to-travel-all-week-…

          They claim it works because Erskineville and MacDonaldtown are in different zones, therefore you are not resuming your journey, you are starting a new journey each time

        • shadow131 on 21/01/2015 - 17:06

          @toniyellow:

          http://www.reddit.com/r/sydney/comments/2o15ep/opal_weekly_r…

          Interesting. So basically, according to this, every single trips is one journey. Doesn't matter if it is one after another.

        • amkssg on 22/01/2015 - 00:35
          +1

          @shadow131:
          COOL!!! I didn't know about the MacDonaldtown Erskineville hack. It took me a while to comprehend why it doesn't follow the rule of "60 minute transfers".

          @toniyellow:
          Nope. If you read it carefully, you need to make 21 trips for it to count as 7 journeys.
          Which means, every 3 trips = 1 journey.

          However, going back to your original question on "Home to Uni", that counts as 6 trips / 2 journeys.
          You have to remember that these HACKS uses loopholes in the system, and does not represent what "normally" should happen. In General, the "60 minute transfers" apply, and the only exceptions to this are:
          1) MacDonaldtown Erskineville hack (Which can be done with any 2 train stations, except those in the city circle.)
          2) Taking 21 tram trips between 2 tram stops.
          3) Taking 7 tram trips with a 3 stop gap in between.
          4) more… (pretty sure someone is going to find another loophole.)

  • CyberMurning on 20/01/2015 - 17:15
    +1

    yeah sad for people who using 2 different transport to commute.
    dont know why government didnt think of that. maybe can start a petition or something so they can reconsider.

    but for people using just train, and work in the city - this opal thing is a blessing really.
    used to buy quarterly and i paid $40 per week. just between my station and city.
    now, pay $31 per week - during weekend can travel up to newcastle, wollonggong, blue mountain or any train lines.
    usually i racked up to 20-25 trips or more by sunday night.

    • shadow131 on 20/01/2015 - 17:28
      +1

      Ah ic ic,

      Also sucks for us because there no more travel 10 discount. Sigh

      • Love a bargain on 20/01/2015 - 17:43
        +1

        Mybus Traveltens are still available, if that's what you're referring to.

        • shadow131 on 20/01/2015 - 18:14

          It is but it doesnt count to my opal trips.

        • CyberMurning on 20/01/2015 - 18:47

          @shadow131: ofcourse one is paper one is smart card , mate

        • shadow131 on 20/01/2015 - 19:59
          +2

          @erwinsie:

          What I mean is that the paper one is going to disappear at one point. Currently the system rewards people who buy in "bulk" but the new system only rewards people who are frequent users. meaning for infrequent users, there's been a price hike.

        • neonlight on 22/01/2015 - 08:42
          +3

          @shadow131:

          Well just keep using travelten paper until it goes. It's cheaper than Opal non matter what. When everything is on opal only then I will drive. Unless its city

  • tight-a55 on 20/01/2015 - 20:29

    how long is your train trip? could getting 2 opal cards work? so use 1 for the 1st bus trip, then the other for the train trip, then back on the 1st card for the next bus trip. would only work i guess if the time between getting of the bus and getting on the next bus was more than 60 minutes. Unless the distance between the 2 bus rides means its a different journey and not a continuation?

    • shadow131 on 21/01/2015 - 17:07

      It would but the problem is, there would be 2 cards with the free trip after. I have no use for it.

  • highwind on 20/01/2015 - 20:43
    +6

    Reading stuff like this makes me glad I'm in Adelaide. Each trip has 2-hour unlimited travel on any Adelaide Metro (bus, team, train). No need to tap off either. I can bus to town, do some errands and bus home all one trip. As a student in off peak, this would be $0.89. And the airport is treated like any other stop.

    • shadow131 on 21/01/2015 - 17:08

      HOLY! 0.89?! im blown away. How in the world is it so cheap…?!

    • CheapCoffee on 21/01/2015 - 21:15

      Sounds like it is a combination of the best aspects of Myki (Melbourne) and Opal (Sydney).

    • newsim on 21/01/2015 - 23:29

      Pretty similar in WA. 2 hour window on any mode of transport and student concession fares are $0.90. I have set up automatic top up from my credit card so never have to worry about balance in my smart-rider. Sounds pretty confusing for NSW.

  • Munificent on 21/01/2015 - 18:00
    +1

    A few questions:
    How close is the bus stop from your home?
    What days do you attend uni?
    How far you willing to go to save money?

    Depending on how you answer these, will determine how much savings you can achieve.

    If your uni days are Tuesday onwards, you can send Monday doing token cheap trips to try to get to your 8 as cheap as possible.

    If you live close to the bus stop, take token bus trips one hour apart for 2 or 3 stops and walk back home. These short trips count toward your travel reward but only cost 1.05 concession.

    During your lunch break, take a token bus trip and walk back to uni, assuming its not within 60 mins of your last tap off.

    For more tips, read my opal hacks post on my blog. Just search my previous posts for it

  • bs0 on 21/01/2015 - 19:44

    On a side note - unsw opal available 2/2/15

  • lambsie on 22/01/2015 - 00:16

    How long is the train trip? If it is under an hour between tapping on/off between buses, then the train fare should be a Bus 3 trip costing $2.25 as opposed to $2.80 (Bus 1 $1.05+ Bus 2 $1.75) since it would be in the 60 minute transfer window.

    $2.25 (bus) +$2.10/1.47 (train), so potentially $3.72 each way or $7.44 a day.

    • shadow131 on 22/01/2015 - 14:37

      So on it does add the two bus trip up? Either way, its only a 0.06 cent saving.
      Love a Bargain was questioning this before.

  • samthebear on 22/01/2015 - 10:18
    +1

    If you have classes on the opposite ends of uni you can always catch a bus down/up and rack up an extra 'journey' since journeys are considered based on time (60 mins has to lapse between each mode of transport or its considered a 'trip' instead of a journey) rather than distance?

    Edit: I'm not entirely sure this will work but based on what I understand of the Opal system this seems to work.

  • uggugg on 22/01/2015 - 10:46
    +3

    If your 2nd bus tap on is more than an hour of your 1st bus tap off, considering running with 2 Opal cards.

    How to do this:

    Day 1
    • CARD 1 journey 1 - Bus to the station $1.05
    • CARD 2 journey 1 - Train to the city $2.10/$1.47
    • CARD 1 journey 2 - Bus from Central to Uni $1.75

    Attend more than 60 Minutes of Uni

    • CARD 1 journey 3 - Bus back to Central $1.75
    • CARD 2 journey 2- Train to home station $2.10/$1.47
    • CARD 1 journey 4 - Bus to home $1.05

    Day 1 Total = $9.80/$8.54 (Note the $7.50 daily cap doesn't apply because you are using 2 cards and the daily total for each card are $5.60 for CARD 1 and $4.20/$2.94 for CARD 2)

    Day 2

    • CARD 1 journey 5- Bus to the station $1.05
    • CARD 2 journey 3 - Train to the city $2.10/$1.47
    • CARD 1 journey 6 - Bus from Central to Uni $1.75

    Attend more than 60 Minutes of Uni

    • CARD 1 journey 7 - Bus back to Central $1.75
    • CARD 2 journey 4- Train to home station $2.10/$1.47
    • CARD 1 journey 8 - Bus to home $1.75

    Day 2 Total = $9.80/$8.54

    Now for Days 3 and 4, and this is very important, use CARD 1 for both trains and buses. Because you have hit the 8 journeys limit on that card, all subsequent journeys will be free

    Weekly total = $9.80/$8.54 * 2 = $19.60/$17.08
    • shadow131 on 22/01/2015 - 15:19 
      CARD 1 journey 1 - Bus to the station $1.05
CARD 2 journey 1 - Train to the city $2.10/$1.47
CARD 1 journey 2 - Bus from Central to Uni $1.75

      Even if the 2 bus rides are not 60 minutes apart?

      • uggugg on 22/01/2015 - 15:38

        The 2 bus rides must be 60 minutes apart for this to work. Otherwise you can't rack up the 2nd journey on CARD 1.

        How long is your train journey? You will have to consider the balance between 'wasting' time after your train journey waiting for the 1 hour to elapse vs. saving about $11-13 a week. Remember time is money as well so if it's a long wait it might not be worth it.

        • shadow131 on 22/01/2015 - 16:02

          Lol my train tip is 22 minutes. No way i can make 60 minutes out of it. esp when central has absolutely nothing to do with in a 30 minutes time frame

  • djones145 on 23/01/2015 - 14:19

    at lunch catch the bus one or two stops (sometimes 1 stop is too short and it counts as a reversal)
    then walk back to uni

  • iamnikon on 25/01/2015 - 11:21

    Hi all,

    I've been trying to figure out my commute to uni (about 1hr 40min) and have some questions.

    I have to take a 20 minute bus, (wait about 10min) a 50 minute train (wait about 5min) and then a 5 minute bus (then some walking. Woopee). It's my understanding that even though I'm switching modes of transport, the three TRIPS will count as one JOURNEY and I'll still be charged separately for each mode.

    HOWEVER, I am tapping on the last bus more than an hour after I tapped off from my first bus. Would this count as a separate journey or would it count as one by joining onto the journey I've taken with the train just beforehand?

    • retiredfeline on 25/01/2015 - 11:26

      My understanding is that the 60 minutes is the transfer gap, tap off to tap on again, not between tap offs.

    • shadow131 on 25/01/2015 - 13:03

      It will be one journey, and the two bus trips would be joined together and priced. Thats why i got from this whole thread

      • djones145 on 27/01/2015 - 14:41

        yep one journey

        you could consider getting two cards
        cause the first bus journey and the second bus has over 1 hour between the two
        therefore it would be two journeys

        its discussed above

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