Using Phone as a GPS Whilst on P's (VIC)

Unorthodox on 23/07/2015 - 17:45
Last edited 23/07/2015 - 18:47 by 1 other user

Hey everyone,

I'm a bit confused as to the rules involving the use of your smartphone as a GPS whilst on Probationary 1 VICTORIA

It seems as if there is confusion on both Whirlpool and Reddit as to the wording on the Vicroads website.

The circumstances:

  • Phone is properly mounted in the car, dash etc and properly secured.
  • Google Maps, etc is open and location plugged in before starting the vehicle.
  • Phone is not touched and you only glance at the map.

Anyone have any input and/or experience in regards to whether this is legal?

Some people say it's perfectly fine, whilst others say it's completely illegal to use your phone for any function as a P-plater.

Automotive

Comments

  • plmko on 23/07/2015 - 17:53
    +5

    http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/PubL…

    (1A) Despite anything to the contrary in rule 299(2), the driver of a vehicle who is a learner driver or the holder of a P1 probationary driver licence must not use a mobile phone, including using the phone to perform a navigational or intelligent highway and vehicle system function or an audio playing function, while the vehicle is moving, or is stationary but not parked.

    No you can't you use a mobile phone in anyway in the car. Unless you stop the car and stop the engine, a simple pull-over with the indicator on isn't enough.

    • Unorthodox on 23/07/2015 - 18:09
      +1

      That's exactly what I needed :)

      Thanks so much!

      Gotta wait until P2 then :(

      • indium on 23/07/2015 - 18:45

        I'm pretty sure you have to wait until full license for mobile phone as GPS.

      • Randxyz123 on 23/07/2015 - 20:32

        You can't till you are on your full license… Yeah stupid I know…

        • Unorthodox on 23/07/2015 - 22:20

          keys2drive says P2 an use hands free

          So confused…

  • nocure on 23/07/2015 - 18:07

    It's pretty simple…you cannot touch that phone unless the ignition is off and the handbrake Is on.

    • Unorthodox on 23/07/2015 - 18:10

      That's the type of phrasing that made it so difficult to understand as you aren't touching it at all.

      • nocure on 23/07/2015 - 18:17

        Yeah sorry didn't realize you were a P plater, L and P 's are not allowed to use any device as above in plmko's comment.Open licences can use mobiles as a GPS using the same guidelines as a dedicated unit.

      • whooah1979 on 23/07/2015 - 18:37

        So use=touching. Watching is ok as long as you don't touch.

        • nocure on 23/07/2015 - 19:03

          Only if you have an open license.

  • oscargamer on 23/07/2015 - 18:50

    WRONG plmko…

    "use", in relation to a mobile phone, includes any of the following actions by a driver—

        (a)     holding the body of the phone in her or his hand (whether or not engaged in a phone call), except while in the process of giving the body of the phone to a passenger in the vehicle;

    (b)     entering or placing, other than by the use of voice, anything into the phone, or sending or looking at anything that is in the phone;

    (c)     turning the phone on or off;

    (d)     operating any other function of the phone.

    Pretty much the only thing you can do as a P1 driver is look a a mobile phone that is mounted in holder

  • nocure on 23/07/2015 - 19:08

    Wrong oscargamer

    There is a ban on all mobile phone use (including hands-free) for:
    learner drivers under 25 years of age
    P1 provisional drivers under 25 years of age
    P1 probationary licence holders and P1 restricted licence holders who hold a restricted licence because of a young driver disqualification offence.
    There is also a ban on mobile phone use on loudspeaker function for supervisors and passengers of these drivers.

    • whooah1979 on 23/07/2015 - 19:11

      There is also a ban on mobile phone use on loudspeaker function for supervisors and passengers of these drivers.

      does this mean a passenger can't use a phone as a gps when the driver is on a restricted licence?

      • nocure on 23/07/2015 - 19:12

        Correct

        • whooah1979 on 23/07/2015 - 19:14

          sorry let me rephrase.

          does this mean a passenger can't use a phone as a gps with the loudspeaker on when the driver is on a restricted licence, but can if the phone is mute?

        • nocure on 23/07/2015 - 19:28

          @whooah1979:
          Yep ..backseat driver.

  • oscargamer on 23/07/2015 - 19:21
    -3

    nocure - please post the legislation that confirms what you say….

    you are correct, but also wrong - P platers cannot USE mobile phones - hence my posting of what USE means…..

    they CAN look at a phone that is positioned elsewhere in the car (not on them)

    a P plater can actually legally talk on a mobile phone while driving - if you cared to think about a scenario, you might work out how

    please learn to read

    • [Deactivated] on 23/07/2015 - 23:07
      +2

      nocure - please post the legislation that confirms what you say….

      Road Safety Road Rules 2009 (VIC)
      Reg 300 - Use of mobile phones

      1a) Despite anything to the contrary in rule 299(2), the driver of a vehicle or a motor cycle must not use a mobile phone, including using the phone to perform a navigational or intelligent highway and vehicle system function or an audio playing function, while the vehicle is moving, or is stationary but not parked if the driver is—
      (a) a learner driver; or
      (b) the holder of a probationary driver licence; or
      (c) the holder of a motor cycle licence, issued by the Corporation after 1 October 2014, who has held the licence for a period of less than 3 years.
      Penalty: 10 penalty units.

      And the definition of "use"

      "use", in relation to a mobile phone, includes any of the following actions by a driver—
      (a) holding the body of the phone in her or his hand (whether or not engaged in a phone call), except while in the process of giving the body of the phone to a passenger in the vehicle;
      (b) entering or placing, other than by the use of voice, anything into the phone, or sending or looking at anything that is in the phone;
      (c) turning the phone on or off;
      (d) operating any other function of the phone.

      That means:

      Pretty much the only thing you can do as a P1 driver is look a a mobile phone that is mounted in holder

      is not correct. A probationary driver cannot look at anything that is displayed on the phone.

      As for,

      a P plater can actually legally talk on a mobile phone while driving

      The definition of "use" is not exclusive. If you mean by initiating the call when parked or having someone else initiate the call, and the probationary driver talks whilst driving, you'd have your work cut out arguing that the driver was not "using" a function of the phone.

    • [Deactivated] on 24/07/2015 - 08:41

      Use includes looking at or listening to. In fact anything.
      A P plater cannot legally talk on a mobile phone whilst driving.
      Please learn to be more polite to other posters.

    • silent1 on 23/07/2015 - 20:05

      Only for QLD. The Vic rules exclude over 25 L and P1 too.

  • Unorthodox on 23/07/2015 - 22:18

    So confusing ughh

  • elf888 on 24/07/2015 - 15:14

    Anyone know if it is a Tablet without Phone function but GPS & 3G?

  • Unorthodox on 24/07/2015 - 15:21

    Seems like a disappointing ruling especially as there's a chance someone struggling to navigate/find directions will make a hasty turn etc and cause an accident.

    • [Deactivated] on 24/07/2015 - 15:53
      +1

      People managed to drive around successfully without GPSes for many years. They would look up a street directory and plan their route before they went.

      There shouldn't be any reason for a hasty turn, you simply take the next turn or pull over when possible and consult a street directory (or if you're parked, you can consult your phone maps). There's no reason to be a bad driver just because you don't have electronic driving aids.

      And if you absolutely can't get around without GPS, get one. You're allowed to use a GPS unit in the car, just not a phone acting as one.

      • Unorthodox on 24/07/2015 - 18:50

        I'm not complaining about my circumstances.

        Just stating what the local newspapers report and what others say!

        I carry a Melway with me and I grew up in a family without GPS etc so it's not a big issue for me

  • oscargamer on 25/07/2015 - 15:31
    +1

    could only post 5 posts as new….now i can post more

    would you all please stop reading the vicroads website. that is NOT legislation. it is vicroads interpretation of the legislation.

    my first answer to the OP at 18.50hrs is absolutely correct

    please post the relevant link or extract from the LEGISLATION (Road Rules 2009) if you think i am wrong.

    • [Deactivated] on 25/07/2015 - 15:55

      What was wrong with my comment?

  • oscargamer on 25/07/2015 - 16:06

    (b) entering or placing, other than by the use of voice, anything into the phone, or sending or looking at anything that is in the phone;

    IN the phone not ON the phone !!!

    and the word 'use' IS exclusive when it is defined, that is the exact reason it is defined - if a word is not defined it defaults to the dictionary definition

    • [Deactivated] on 25/07/2015 - 16:12

      Can you give an example of looking at something that is "in the phone" vs "on the phone" ?

      The definition specifically states, "includes any of the following actions". This means "use" is not limited only to those actions listed.

      Looking at a map on the phone, getting GPS information from a phone, or having a conversation transmitted and received by a phone is using a feature of the phone.

  • oscargamer on 25/07/2015 - 16:17

    a text message, a photo, but that's completely not the point

    the burden of proof lies with the police to prove a case, NOT with the driver to provide a reason/excuse/alibi etc…etc…

    you have to understand that legislation does it's best to say what you can and can't do. it is written by very clever people, but it is also open to interpretation by the same clever people

    once a piece of legislation is enacted, police (and others) try and implement it, but courts clarify cases everyday with 'case law'

    i know that getting a successful prosecution against P plater for looking at a mobile phone in a holder that is displaying a gps image is IMPOSSIBLE….0%

    how on earth can a police officer say, beyond possible doubt, that a driver was looking at the gps display rather than anything else.

    • [Deactivated] on 25/07/2015 - 16:45

      Explain how looking at a text message or photo "in" the phone is different to looking at a map that is "on" the phone's display? The map data is "in" the phone, you are looking at a visual representation of that data.

      the word 'use' IS exclusive when it is defined

      If the definition was exclusive, the list of actions would be written as:

      "use", in relation to a mobile phone, means any of the following actions by a driver—
      (a) … ; or
      (b) … ; or
      (c)

    • [Deactivated] on 25/07/2015 - 16:49

      i know that getting a successful prosecution against P plater for looking at a mobile phone in a holder that is displaying a gps image is IMPOSSIBLE….0%

      So you or someone you directly know have successfully defended this in court?

  • oscargamer on 25/07/2015 - 16:26

    so…if a passenger is holding the phone and the call is on speaker phone and the driver is talking (or even just listening to the call), have they committed an offence?

  • oscargamer on 25/07/2015 - 16:32
    +1

    who said anything about using a feature of the phone, the legislation says operating any other function

    what's the definition of operating? not looking at that's for sure

    • Unorthodox on 25/07/2015 - 17:47

      You make really valid points and your point about Vicroads not creating the law is something I hadn't considered.

      Thank you for pushing your view :)

  • oscargamer on 27/07/2015 - 09:15

    So you or someone you directly know have successfully defended this in court?…..

    again, wrong way around, you don't have to defend anything. police have to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that an offence has been committed. it is IMPOSSIBLE for a police officer to say that a driver was looking at anything in particular (apart from if they looked directly into the police officers eyes)

    • [Deactivated] on 28/07/2015 - 09:48

      So a P plater is stopped by the police whilst driving a car and in front of them is a mobile phone with the GPS mapping function activated and the display within the driver's line of sight.
      I don't think there would be any doubt in the court's mind that the driver was using it.

  • oscargamer on 28/07/2015 - 11:17

    that's your opinion

    mine is the opposite, and not being rude, it comes from a position of knowledge

  • altomic on 29/07/2015 - 22:02

    no phone GPS, but feel free to do your make up, whilst smoking a cigarette, whilst drinking a cup of coffee, whilst changing lanes, checking your melways and changing the radio station.

    • [Deactivated] on 29/07/2015 - 22:21

      And if those other things interfere with your driving, expect a similar penalty. Driving without due care or attention is an offence.

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