Stay in Australia or Move to Canada

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    [Deactivated] on 05/08/2015 - 10:16

    Sorry, my mistake with previous post. You don't have to get a visa prior to entering America if you are an Australian citizen. Just make sure you have no prior major criminal record. :p My hubby once overstayed in America and forgot about it- spent 15 minutes being grilled by border services but was allowed in with a stern warning. When you arrive at the border, you will have to stop at the office and answer questions, get your fingerprints taken, etc.
    http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5048-eng.html will answer your questions on how to bring a car back from US, or google it and you will get lots of advice
    Depending on where you are living in Vancouver, you might not even need a car. Parking rates are expensive in downtown Vancouver- better to take public transportation.
    If you need a car immediately, I wouldn't recommend getting it from US.
    If you have a job lined up there already, best to ask for advice from people in the company already working there. They would be able to tell you where to rent, if you need a car or not, etc.
    Vancouver is in Beautiful British Columbia- great places to tour around in BC!

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  coolsteps on 05/08/2015 - 09:01

  I lived, worked and travelled all of Canada for 1 year. I would take the opportunity and stay for 1-2 years , your family will love the experience but i think australia is better in terms of living and climate. too cold over there in winter for my likening -40, black ice etc and couldn't work outdoors in winter so got paid employment insurance.I don't recommend Vancouver, parked car and got broken into at night by druggies and lost all my photos etc, take care in Vancouver.

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  neonlight on 05/08/2015 - 10:27

  +1

  Depends if Aus will go recession. But for sure Canada Property price WILL NOT be any where expensive as here, especially Sydney.
  Says thanks to Mainland China! Like the C&C games "I build for China!"

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  LeavingTheWheel on 05/08/2015 - 12:18

  +2

  Just move already and keep in contact so we can order from Amazon direct to your address ;-)

  Then you can bulk ship the products to Australia. In return, we'll send you some vegemite. (When it's on special)

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  [Deactivated] on 05/08/2015 - 19:23

  yes.
  North America is heaven for professionals and high wage earners.
  My wife is from the USA and we've lived there in Boston. Been to Canada twice and it's just gorgeous.

  Forget the crappy volvo, you'll be able to get all the American SUV's like the Chevy Escalade, Dodge SUVS and Infiniti's, as well as all the other stuff like ML350's etc for wwwwaaaaayyy cheaper.

  The weather can be brutal, but if you plan your vacation back to Australia each year or two during winter you'll be coming back for summer here for a few weeks and if you like the snow, you'll experience pretty much the best skiing and snowboarding you can get anywhere.

  As someone who has lived in Thailand, Africa, USA, Switzerland and Australia (and been to Canada twice) - you should 100% do it.
  The Aussie Dollar will only get worse over the next few years and your canadian salary should add an extra 5-10% by the time you want to move back to AUS.

  This is what life is about, take an educated risk and have the time of your lives in a beautiful country with great people.
  You'll be able to travel Canada and the USA too, for much cheaper than from Aus.
  Good luck.

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  Daemos on 06/08/2015 - 00:16

  +3

  I am a Canadian who has been here now for a few years.

  I will list the pros and cons in comparison to both countries (Canada and Australia). For the purposes of the list, this list assumes you are citizens in both countries, as some deal with the benefits that Citizenship offers.

  Please note, the list of cons I'm listing is not to criticise or bash any country, and state one as superior, but just to share my personal experiences having grown up spent pretty much all my life in Canada, and in contrast to having lived here (in Australia)for the past few years. I don't want to deal with people neging my post, because it somehow states things they don't feel are true, or they disagree with me. Everyone has different experiences and views :)

  If you do move to Canada, Canada has a similar site to Ozbargain called Red Flag Deals, it can be broken down into deals by city, and also have a large community on their discussion forums. Everyone loves a deal (and freebies)!

  Australia Pros:

  • Easier to get into University and Professional courses, even grad entry (Medicine, Dentistry, Law, etc) (this was my primary reason to move to Australia)
  • University students have access to HECS + Centerlink (if they qualify)
  • Warmer weather
  • Beautiful beaches
  • Relaxing atmosphere
  • Fast food restaurants here taste better
  • I personally find some fruit/veg better here as well (Canada at some stages imports theirs, where Australia is all grown locally)
  • Higher minimum wage
  • Generous penalty rates
  • Good work life balance
  • Lots of paid vacation
  • Can get a good paying job here without completing high school
  • Private health services, good if you can afford to pay things privately or have private cover, helps get you your elective surgeries faster, and makes the public health system MUCH more efficient.
  • In the major cities, public transit is on average much better than when compared to Canada's major cities.
  • Public transit trains that link major cities to regional cities, towns etc…this doesn't really exist in Canada.
  • $1000 GST/Duty free imports
  • Prices here always include tax (in Canada, prices most likely do not include GST (5%) or PST/HST (varies from 0-10% depending on the province(state) you live in)
  • Cell phone plans (eg boost pre-paid $40) is cheaper here
  • Income tax rates are lower here
  • PBS is good, means pescription drugs tend to be cheaper here
  • undergraduate entry law, medicine, dentistry, optom, physio, etc.

  Australia Cons:

  • Almost everything here is more expensive, this can range from just a little bit more expensive to several times more expensive (or higher) for no ligitamate justifiable reason (even when taxes, duties etc are taken into account)
  • Elementary/Middle/High school programs are not as developed (even private) as the public school system in Canada. Teaching quality is not as good.
  • Higher levels racist behaviour. This is not to say everyone, or even most here are racist. I believe it to be a very small minority, I'm just saying it happens more, not that it is common.* (I'll elaborate more later) I believe it will get better here though, as immigration becomes more and more.
  • There is a culture of drinking excessively (and there is peer pressure to do this to fit in) This leads to higher risk of violence and other things…
  • Although minimum wage is higher, the median house hold income in Australia is not higher (combined with the much higher cost of living, means actually people have a MUCH lower disposable income)** (see below for sources and statistics)
  • Shops here on average tend to close very early
  • Shipping from overseas is expensive
  • Less variety of fruits, vegs, etc at grocery stores.
  • Less choice of brands available to you to shop for
  • Some Australian products are actually cheaper overseas than it is here!
  • Houses here are not as well built (but I attribute that due to climate being warmer, so they do not need to be built or insulated as well)
  • Internet here is SLOW
  • Mandatory voting
  • Prefrential voting
  • No Huaman Rights protection under a bill of rights
  • The sun is INTENSE here, even in a winter day, the sun can burn you (lack of Ozone over the country)
  • Basically every house I've been to here is smaller on average than Canada (land size can be similar, but no basements = half the living space)

  Canada Pros:

  • Cheaper cost of living, almost everything there is cheaper, and many things signficantly cheaper! (eg topic cars, new BMW M4 in Canada can start at about $82-85K drive away, where in aus drive away price is $160K! Used car prices are even bigger difference)
  • Car warrenties are generally (for most cars) 5 years bumper to bumper and 3 years power train, some are 10 year power train now or more.
  • Bill of Rights!
  • Voting is not mandatory
  • No prefrential voting
  • more multi-cultrual
  • More competitive environment (can be a con)
  • More fast paced (can be a con)
  • resturants are better (esp if you enjoy ethnic meals)
  • Shops close at 9pm basically everyday (varies depending on where you live) (like Australia though, some are open 24/7)
  • Schooling for children is better, and no requirement to pay for private education to boost ranking, as there is no ATAR/OP style ranking system in Canada in which individual school ranking plays a factor (although I've heard rumors of this changing in some specific areas)
  • More variety in shopping
  • Housing is larger, better insulated, and better built, and climate control is very common (as in ducted heating/cooling) growing up except during spring, the ducted heating and cooling kept my Parent's house inside around 20C all year round (and they still pay 1/3rd the utility bills I pay here for a tiny little town house, which is maybe 1/5th the size of my parent's place!)
  • The Sun doesn't burn (have a nice ozone layer!)
  • Fast reliable internet (Cable (Coax) is everywhere, VDSL is very common, and Fiber (in some areas) is getting more common)
  • Pretty much every job includes some sort of health insurance to cover things like dental, glasses, massage, physio etc..
  • Higher/similar median house hold income to Australia**
  • Some jobs pay much higher in Canada (eg Pharmacy, where grads earn close to or over 6 figures!)
  • Some professional areas have a less saturated job market than in Australia
  • Return and exchange policies ARE AMAZING, you can return things (as long as unused) pretty much everywhere, even if you just changed your mind, some places within 14 days, others 30 days, some places are crazy at 90 days.

  Canada Cons:

  • The weather, depending on where you live, winter can be very cold, and summers can get very hot. Some places rain a lot.
  • More competitive environment (can be a pro if that's what you like)
  • More fast paced (can be a pro if that's what you like)
  • No eqv of HECS or centerlink for students, you can take out general student loans from the government or banks, but it's not as generous as HECS or Centerlink. As soon as you stop being a student you need to pay them back, regardless of your earnings.
  • If you want your kids to enter medicine, dentistry, law, etc, they are all post graduate degrees in Canada, and very competitive to enter.
  • For most, working conditions are not as good, no real penality rates for weekends or evening/nights, less vacation time, longer working weeks.
  • No private health systems to my knowledge in the Country. If it is covered under medicare, a Dr cannot private bill for it. That being said, medicare does not cover dental, and things like cosmetic surgery, so those are still private billed. You can get insurance for dental, but not for things like cosmetic surgery.
  • Flying across the country can get expensive, it actually can be cheaper to fly to Cuba than to fly across Canada!
  • GST/PST/HST + duty on basically everything you get from overseas (unless marked as gift with $0 value)
  • Depending on your line of work job opportunities are worse than here (although that's currently changing)
  • Unemployment rate is higher
  • Cell phone plans are more expensive
  • Some universities have preferential treatment for applicants in their local area/provience or those who went to high school in those areas (this is espically true for programs like medicine, dentistry, law)
  • Price labels do not include GST/PST/HST

  *One of my first encounters with an Australian was at a cellphone shop (this is in a nicer suburb of a major metro city) I wanted to sign up for cell service. I should note I am of Asian ethnicity, but I was born in Canada. I handed over my Canadian passport, and when they noticed it was not an Australian one, and made some rude remarks about being a boat person…then when they asked what I did (student doing professional uni course)they mubled more about taking Australian spots and jobs…Also having been lived in some regional cities (100K-200K pop) I've gotten total strangers come up to me ask me "ni hao ma" bow, in a very sarcastic manner, or when Psy's Gangnam style came out, they were doing the dance from the video..and asked if that's how I dance back home, then would laugh. I know most Australians would not do this or even think about doing things like this…but growing up in Canada and living in different cities, I have NEVER encountered behaviour like this, even when I was the only asian kid in my school, and this was a HUGE shock, esp as I've only lived in Australia for a very small portion of my life. Please don't get me wrong, these incidents were very few and far in between, but to me, it's still a shock that these things happened.

  I believe this is partly attributed to the lower levels of visible minorities in Australia. Eg Vancouver has a population that is 51.8% visible minority (in 2011, and it has only gone up since) Toronto in 2011 about 50% where Sydney (the city with the highest % of visible minorities in Australia) is around half that.

  **ABS 2008 figures = $66,820 AUD is the Median house hold income in Australia (1), but say add 10% for today's market = $73,502. Please note this does not state if it's pre-tax or post-tax. in 2011, Canada's Post tax median house hold income is $68,000 CAD (~70KAUD) for all areas of Canada (1) and $76,550 (~78.7K AUD) in 2013 for only Metropolitan areas of Canada (2) Although this one does not indicate if it's pre-tax or post-tax, but based on (1) might be post-tax.

  (1)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income_in_Australia_and_New_Zealand
  (2)http://well-being.esdc.gc.ca/misme-iowb/[email protected]?iid=21
  (3)http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux2sum-som/l01/cst01/famil107a-eng.htm

  Conclusion

  Would I move back? If I was single, could get a similar job there, I'd really consider it. Even If I made less there, it wouldn't be that much lower, but most likely make the same (therefore I'd be able to purchase more material goods and have more material possessions), although I think I'd have to work much harder for it. I also think it's a better place to raise a family, although it's still very good here to raise a family, I just think it's more difficult here. But most imporantly, regardless if I obtain multiple other citizenships, it is, and always will be my home country, so I have a very strong sentimental attachment to it, and can easily overlook it's flaws.

  I do love Australia, and I think this is a great country, and I'm happy to spend the rest of my life here, there are plenty of postives (lots of good things have happened here!), and I just love being able to hop on a train and see sights of small towns and cities, this is somethiong I could have never done in Canada!

  However, I'm not single, I met a very lovely girl here, she doesn't really want to deal with the cold weather, and she would like to retain a close proxmity to her family, so most likely I will not move back. Because of this, I'll probably stay.

  By saying this, what I'm really saying is (assuming you were born and raised here). Even though there are lots of pros to going to canada, and cons in staying in Australia. By the time you get to Canada, after the "new country smell" wears off, you may find your self longing for home. Regardless of all the benefits you are getting in Canada, and regardless of all the things you'd lose by moving back to Australia, Australia is still your home country, you will most likely have some sentimental attachment to it, and like others I've met from USA, Canada, NZ, HK, China, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore here & Canada, (and Aussies & NZers I know in Canada!) there is always a longing for home, despite all the negative things you can think about it, and how much better your life is where you live now, it's still not your "home".

  I say if you can (and your family is willing), try it out, you can always come home if you want to. Some things are more important than money, cars, houses etc…

  Regarding Importing cars from USA

  It's actually not that difficult, most cars can be imported without any issues from the US, and used car prices are MUCH cheaper in the USA than they are in Canada. Only need to pay taxes + road worthy stuff, usually no conversion of parts is needed, and warrenty usually transfers between Canada and USA for cars. You can even drive it back up over the border as long as the paper work is in order.

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    Daemos on 06/08/2015 - 16:01

    I need to add another con to Australia:

    Unless if you have private insurance, or are an in patient, without research you could be paying $200+ for a diagnostic ultra sound (5 min of work), even more for Xray or CT, as even going to a public hospital, there may be a private imaging clinic that does the hospital's imaging work, and they will not bulk bill you unless if you are an in patient. Unfortunately, it seems even bulk billing GPs hand out forms that advertise these non-bulk billing imaging clinics, and you will need to rely on your google-fu to find a bulk billing imaging place.

    Where compared to Canada, you can get all that for free.

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    docians on 06/08/2015 - 22:21

    Re: cars
    just out of curiosity if brand new cars are cheaper in the U.S, is there a reason why everyone doesn't buy in the US and drive up to Canada, atleast upto the border and then transported the rest of the way. We are talking of savings upwards of 10,000, eg I would drive down from Brisbane to Melbourne if I could save 10k, or get it transported for $2000, still saving $8000. Must be a catch somewhere?

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      Daemos on 06/08/2015 - 23:57

      +1

      Brand new cars can be cheaper, may not be significantly cheaper though. Especially once you factor in taxes, your time + money to go down to that dealership, work out a deal with them, transport, conversion rate, and time to take paper work…etc

      By the time the cost savings comes around (depending on the car) you may have been able to negotiate a deal that's similar to that at a dealership without the hassle of doing that.

      Used cars and dealing with private buyers are significantly easier, so that makes it more worth it. I know plenty of people who have imported used newer cars, as depreciation for cars in the US is worse than it is in Canada, and the cost savings can be very significant even after all the paper work, inspections etc. Also used cars (especially from southern states) tend to be in better condition when compared to Canadian ones, due to the climate not being as harsh with extreme temperature variations during the year.

      The only issue that some people may have and may prevent them from buying a US car at all for use in Canada, is if the car has a normal analog speedometer, MPH will be in large numbers, where kph will be on the inside of that but in a smaller font. Also your odometer will be in miles not kilometres. This is not an issue for most cars with digital speedometers. This can also pose an issue on cars that only come with MPH speedometer, and you will need to pay to get that converted.

      More (official) information can be found here:
      http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehiclesafety/safevehicles-impo…

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  m0nkeycheese on 07/08/2015 - 14:15

  +1

  Wow! Lots of replies here, I'll probably not have that much extra to add! I've Been in Canada (Vancouver) for 2 years now and I love it! Everything seems to be answered, but I'll add one thing. DO IT! Make the move! Not for financial reasons but just to broaden (lol not that one) your view on life. It's amazing what you can learn by immersing yourself in different cultures. You think Australia is multicultural think again! Seriously your kids will think you later in life for exposing them to different thinking any ways of life.

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    Mamia on 07/08/2015 - 19:19

    Looking forward to the move but just wondering where you would go in Vancouver (apart from ikea..it may be controversial but I don't find them that cheap or fabulous)to buy a whole houseful of furniture for a rental property….am thinking reasonably cheap akin to super amart in oz ?

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      Daemos on 07/08/2015 - 20:59

      +1

      Ikea in Australia is more expensive (of course), but I wouldn't consider it cheap in Canada either (especially for the quality, although some Ikea stuff is decent).

      The larger chain stores to get furniture (but may not be the cheapest!) are: The Brick, Leon's, Sears, JYSK, Ashley, there are more but I can't remember. These places can sell nice quality stuff, but they also sell the flat pack assemble it your self particle board stuff as well…which is okay if you are not paying top dollar for them. There are lots of smaller independent places that offer good prices on very well made items.

      You can look on gumtree, local classifieds, garage sales etc…you can get some real good deals on solid wood tables and desks.

      Best place to check out is http://www.redflagdeals.com/ which is the Canadian equivalent to Oz Bargain.

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      m0nkeycheese on 09/08/2015 - 11:32

      2nd Hand. Check Craigslist. If there is something you want at Ikea remember the name and search on Craigslist. You will probably find it.

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