Stay in Australia or Move to Canada

docians on 01/08/2015 - 20:29
Last edited 08/08/2015 - 11:09

Would appreciate advice from anyone who has lived in both countries

We are a family of five, with three kids in primary school.
I am 41 and the sole earner with my pay package being in the 150K range plus super (Yet I love bargains)
Neither of us drink or smoke
I have the option of transferring to Canada for the same pay (most of the forums do say, lower cost of living is balanced with lower pay, not true in my case)

Was checking out the all new Volvo XC90 after owning second hand cars while we paid off our mortgage and found out it is around 35K cheaper in Canada for the same specs. Further research seems that many or most prices are less in Canada eg rental, electricity, no private health care fees, no private schools etc) so it seems to have a lower cost of living, perhaps because of the proximity to the US

While both me and my wife don't mind winter, I guess it will be a completely different picture with snow!

The grass does look greener on the other side, but I am wondering is it too good to be true? Sure we have our beaches but almost everything seems more expensive here

Advice appreciated
Thanks

Thank you for your helpful comments
To add more information we came to Australia in nine years ago after previously having worked in the UK. The nature of my job necessitated me having to move around, so unfortunately we could not stay in one town or city for more than a year. As a result of which we have not really made lasting friendships.

Needless to say we do not have any extended family in Australia, and our relatives have to visit us from overseas anyway. If we were to move to Canada we would not be missing family or friends in Australia.

We are now in a position to decide where we want to move one final time, and the choices are between an Australian Capital City and just to add to the mix a Canadian City like Toronto.

Education & Work

Comments

  • Peace Maker on 01/08/2015 - 20:40
    +3

    There are lots of Canadians living in Australia. Maybe you can find one to get their opinion? Hopefully their are on here. The provenances (like states) make a difference too I'm led to believe. At least according to only Canadians I know who are all from British Columbia.

    • docians on 02/08/2015 - 17:56

      Don't know of any Canadians out here:) Hence was trying my luck on Ozbargain. Yes some provinces are more expensive than others

      • IVI on 24/11/2015 - 19:34

        Start by comparing the ideas+stories+programs you hear,
        on app CBC Radio, CBC News, & (via a VPN connecting you to Canada) CBC TV.
        Start writing to people you hear about,
        Look for hints of what Canadians value
        Vs what Aussies do.

        I think this is a terrific time to move to or at least
        watch Canada from afar.

        New gov't under a bright young Trudeau
        (His Dad was a PM years ago, but
        Expect Nothing live the Pop & Son Bushes of USA!

        Listening to the right mix of programs from app CBC Radio
        can give you an entirely different mindset on what's possible
        To get gov't to do or stop doing.

        ABC is dim by comparison.

        The stories from CBC are significantly warmer
        than those from lax ABC tools.

        Of course, you have to like Cold weather, ie,
        UNLESS Climate Chnge turns Canada's
        climate into on like California. :.)

        • IVI on 24/11/2015 - 19:38

          Some programs to start with, via CBC Radio:

          1. Laugh Out Loud (nil like it on ABC - real comedy fr live performamces)

          2. As It Happens

          3. The Current

    • lgacb08 on 04/08/2015 - 18:12

      provinces! If those people come from Vancouver, then that explains everything because that place has Sydney house price with Christchurch weather, but the Chineses seem to love it.

      • [Deactivated] on 04/08/2015 - 18:18
        +1

        'but the Chineses seem to love it.'

        Which explains the Sydney house prices.

  • retiredfeline on 01/08/2015 - 20:54
    +3

    You might want to look at www.numbeo.com for various comparisons. Here's one for cost of living:

    http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_resul…

    Also, like Australia, Canada is a large country, it's not all cold. Some places are just cold, some are very cold, and some are cold and rainy. :) But joking aside, it makes a difference where in that large country you live, the province, whether in a city, in the vicinity of one, or in the country.

    And of course there are other aspects, the people, the culture, the recreation, etc. Lots of factors, not just costs, but you knew that.

    • T-man on 03/08/2015 - 22:37

      Numbeo is really useful site, I just know it, thanks for sharing.

    • neonlight on 04/08/2015 - 13:27

      Great site to get some statistics!

  • MITM on 01/08/2015 - 21:54
    +3

    Numbeo - interesting that city apartments 50% cheaper to buy, so on the same salary - buy 2
    Numbeo - 9% less buying power

    At 41, I'd give it a go if only for a few years. You'll avoid the pain coming this way.

    I'm surprised there isn't more comparisons to Canada in general, being two similar countries:
    Large land mass
    both started using Westminster legal system around 1850
    English speaking
    Major export is mining
    similar population 30mil to 20mil
    Both heavily influenced by USA
    Au$1 = Cnd$1

    We should be asking - how are they doing it in Canada before reinventing the wheel on everything here ?

    • Charity on 02/08/2015 - 00:28
      -2

      Sadly, the majority of the population, and governments, don't do research or learn from history.

      It is more popular to "Give it a go" + "Let's see what happens!" … even if it has been done a thousand times before with negative consequences.

  • [Deactivated] on 01/08/2015 - 21:56
    +8

    Damn, $150k? What do you do?

    I'm a graduate… $42k.

    • toristo on 01/08/2015 - 22:43
      +9

      I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say health industry.

      $42k as a graduate? That's a good starting point. I know you probably don't feel like it is, but you've now got a hunger that you'll use to drive you forward in your career faster than you expect. Docians has probably got 15-20 years on you and you can be sure he didn't start on $150k either.

      It's hard not to compare yourself to others when you feel like you're at the bottom of the pay scale, but draw a line on it and mark off 10 increments. Put your desired job title against each as a 1 year marker. The first few will be pretty easy, you know what you want to do and what you're capable of. Year 5 onwards will be vague for most people, but give it a shot. Now stick an estimated salary below that and you'll see that mentally you're probably heading down the right path. And if all that fails, keep an eye on Seek. I'm sure there'll be a $300k Speaker of the House position soon available ;)

      • docians on 02/08/2015 - 18:14
        +18

        Guilty :)

        btw the Speaker's position is now vacant

    • conan2000 on 02/08/2015 - 10:10
      +4

      That's not too bad for a graduate. I'm on exactly the same as the OP and started as a graduate on $42.5k. I got to $150k+super after 7 years experience. Working in Information Security.

      What salary you can get to, and how fast, will vary very much on industry and type of work you do in it.

      • momov3 on 02/08/2015 - 13:37

        Hmmm, this is encouraging news indeed especially when one has recently graduated children who feel they are being underpaid on a starting salary of $48K. They are reading the latest 2015 Graduate Salary average figures in Australia which says grads below 25 yrs average starting salary 52K and higher. All of a sudden, they wonder if they are being shortchanged. And I agree it depends on the industry as you cannot compare apples with oranges. For eg a mining engineer/health professional starting salary for grad is going to be higher than some other vocation. And it depends on the size of the company and what they can offer to entice the right employee.

        • snook on 04/08/2015 - 14:22
          +2

          Encouraging? They should be grateful they have jobs.

          My ex, a highly intelligent person but considered too old to retrain when computers took over, was retrenched some time ago. Couldn't get a job and was, at the time, too lazy to engage computers alone. I'm not entirely blaming the system here. But their wage is 54k a year. I was quite shocked when I heard the figure but they are thankful they have a job when so many people do not.

          In the US it doesn't matter whether you have a degree, or a masters, or a phd, it is still hard to get a job that pays a living wage.

      • cisco on 03/08/2015 - 07:54
        +1

        Also, how well you can sell yourself to other organizations and how quickly you change jobs. Unfortunately there is no more rewards or benefits to be loyal.

        • tenshi13 on 03/08/2015 - 21:32

          sad but seems to be true in current day's work environments
          no one is to blame, the world economy is increasingly volatile

    • docians on 02/08/2015 - 18:12
      +9

      Hangon in there inose
      Reached this point after 17 years of hard work.
      When I first started out, I had to do crazy hours,that included night shifts and weekends and was paid a lot less. There was a time when a distant relative of mine, when she heard how much I was making in those days, told me that her son, who had just passed year 12 and was working in a call centre was making more than me. She even told me (I think it was sarcastically) that she could ask her son to help me get a job there)

  • [Deactivated] on 01/08/2015 - 22:03

    I love Canada. Beautiful place.

  • explosion on 01/08/2015 - 22:06
    +1

    I lived one years in Canada (cold eastern part). I was paid the same as here as well. I like it over there, not because its cheaper. Its good change, snow,moose etc. Kids will love it. If I was you I would have tried it.
    Please note - In bad winter sitting inside home does make depressing, but its good change. And it is not cheap as USA and the money you save won't be significant with government removing any financial aid you have.

    • docians on 02/08/2015 - 18:20

      I would love to try it explosion
      But a trip to the supermarket with the three kids is exhausting :)
      Moving lock stock and barrel (minus the stuff in storage) sounds daunting
      It is not as cheap as the US but because it is close to the US things are cheaper

      eg My Volvo XC90 comparision shows what costs 125K here costs 90K in Canada and 65K in the US

      • [Deactivated] on 02/08/2015 - 18:46
        +6

        You'd be nuts to spend $125k on an XC90. You could get a nice X5 or a Range Rover sport for that money, both of which don't have rubbish 4 cylinder engines.

        • docians on 02/08/2015 - 18:54
          +1

          I've seen the new XC90 and to me it looks much better than a BMW (my personal opinion)
          Also it has seven seats, when I sat in the third row, I did have sufficient knee room
          The third row in a Beemer cannot seat an adult, at best a pre teen

          The BMW drives heaps better than the old XC90 and I will test drive the new XC90 later this month when it is available :)
          The Range Rover Sport with similar specs starts at 150,000, if I could get it for 125K I would buy it
          I could go for the Disco 4, but it is too boxy for my liking and we do have the Disco 5 coming in next year

          Then there is the Audi Q7 coming in later this month

          The car will be used by the missus for school drops, and extra two seats are to transport rellies in the same car

          For us the third row that can seat two adults is important, even if at the expense of superior driving or off roading

          Hence I am checking if I should get the XC90 at 90k :)

        • [Deactivated] on 02/08/2015 - 19:02
          +6

          @docians:

          Not wanting to tell you what to do, but pretty much no one who earns $150k a year buys a $125k car. Maybe a $70k car?

          Anyway, the XC90 is ridiculously priced and highly overrated. It has a small (weak) 4 cylinder engines, archaic suspension, and is inferior in pretty much every way to the Europeans (apart from 3rd row seating size).

          The Sport HSE can be had for well below $150k, you can easily bargain one down to $130k. I think the Q7 is a better, cheaper car, and as an added bonus, the Audi will actually be worth something in 3 years time.

          The Volvo is a fine car, its not a great car, and is certainly not worth $125k. The equivalent 4 cylinder Mercedes and BMWs retail for the $85k ish. That is a massive difference in price.

          The XC90 should be priced at $75k-90k for the top of the line 4 cylinder model, maybe stretching to $100k for the T8.

          Their current pricing model is a joke.

        • docians on 08/08/2015 - 19:20

          @thorton82:

          was thinking about this
          what can I get for around 70K?
          a Kia Sorento
          test driven; not worth 62K

          In one of the later posts Daemos has said in Canada you could get the BMW M4 for 82K, which is nearly half the Australian price at 160K

      • [Deactivated] on 02/08/2015 - 19:08
        +6

        Why are you obsessed comparing 1 car, if that was the deciding the factor on moving you'd be nuts. Lets compared the toyota 86/scion frs. 35k in Australia, 30k in Canada.

        • docians on 05/08/2015 - 21:48

          Not really obsessed with one car
          was interested in that car
          just happened to checked the price in Canada and was intrigued to see the price difference
          then realised the proximity to the US, could be a factor

          If I was in the market for a toyota 86/ scion and the price difference was $5000, I probably would not have explored more :)

      • subywagon on 03/08/2015 - 16:30
        +2

        Couldn't you head south over the border and buy your car, then register it in Canada?

        • macca9123 on 04/08/2015 - 09:19

          You can, but there are different environmental and safety regulations on cars in Canada compared to the US. So you need to have the car inspected and certified (and any differences rectified) before the car can be registered in Canada. There could also be import duties too. You would have to weigh up the cost and time of doing that against how much it might save.

        • meggowaffle on 07/08/2015 - 18:23

          One other thing to consider is that if you are living in Canada you will likely need a block heater otherwise your car will have trouble starting once it hits about -20C. Not all cars in North America will have them.

  • toristo on 01/08/2015 - 22:38
    +2

    How do your kids feel about it?
    Are they likely to adapt and thrive? If they're young and extroverted, it will probably be the adventure of a lifetime and they'll quickly make new friends. If they aren't, this may be a huge deal and impact them more than you anticipate with no other family around.

    Are either of you super close to your family?
    If you have a healthy separation, flying back for Christmas each year may be enough.

    (Jokes aside, if it was me, and my kids were at least 60% OK with it, I'd do it in a heartbeat. If they weren't so sure, I'd take them on holidays for a fortnight first and see what they think afterwards)

    • docians on 02/08/2015 - 18:39
      +1

      My kids were all born here
      My eldest doesn't really have any friends and he is nearly ten

      We dont have any family here. If we did move there we probably will fly back for Christmas in July :)

      We might just fly there later this year for two weeks :)

      • LSGH on 03/08/2015 - 20:30

        if you did fly back every year….check your prices, I would say easily $1,200 per person and that is just flights…no hotels, no rental car, eating our meals etc…

        so that would be $6,000 each year from your after tax salary…so easily $8,000 of your pre tax salary would be just for your flights back to AUS

      • Wallyt99 on 03/08/2015 - 21:18
        +2

        It could be good or bad for your son… He could be the different kid who everyone wants to hangout with - or the different kid. I think family should be your number 1 consideration. Not an Xc90.

        • docians on 08/08/2015 - 19:24

          Family is my number one consideration

          I'm just thinking moving to Canada, apart from lower house prices and lower car prices (big ticket purchases) closer to the US and Europe. When I was in the UK I was a couple of hours away from Paris or Barcelona; here I am a couple of hours away from Hobart and Adelaide (not quite the same) :)

  • scotty on 01/08/2015 - 23:08
    +21

    Good idea to get yourself familiar with the OzBargain-equivalent over there first :)

    • docians on 02/08/2015 - 18:25
      +1

      thanks Scotty

    • 2big4u on 02/08/2015 - 19:17
      +8

      not being biased but from all the deals sites i've seen. Ozbargain is by far the best; layout, user friendly and very easy to navigate.

      Well done!

      • ATangk on 02/08/2015 - 20:52
        +3

        Shops in Australia try to rip us off the most, with hugely inflated prices in comparison to places like the US for the most part (even when considering shipping, taxes, etc. So the fact that there are heaps of bargains may be somewhat of a contributing factor.

      • scotty on 03/08/2015 - 10:37
        +4

        I think it's probably because OzBargain is more relevant for those of us living down under. I don't have much idea about the brands and retailers over there. RedFlagDeals has also been acquired by the Yellow Page Group over there since 2010 — not sure whether that plays a factor. If OzBargain is owned by Sensis I am sure the dynamics would be very different.

        • subywagon on 03/08/2015 - 16:31
          +1

          uuugghhh don't sell to Sensis please….

        • rodinthink on 03/08/2015 - 18:13
          +1

          ey big b0ss,

          I just went to redflagdeals and I personally think that ozbargain is much better , especially the orange colour, love it.
          I would agree with 2big4u , Ozbargain is much better in term of GUI and ease of browsing.

          Also I notice that there are no vote in canada web in deals and comments, which I reckon make a user a bit confused with "what's going on". It could mislead someone to buy low-quality product or believe in the very misleading sneaky review.

          Don't get me wrong, I think web with no voting system (like whirlpool) will bring some advantage , for ex: no people got neg from butthurt with 5 negs/day.
          However I honestly would prefer the web with vote because I think there is more advantage than disadvantage

      • kangaroo on 03/08/2015 - 20:46
        +2

        Totally Agree. I am an ex RFDer. OZB is far better!

  • kiamsup on 01/08/2015 - 23:31
    +3

    You are going to miss all the bargain in Aus.

    • docians on 02/08/2015 - 18:25

      Not with Scotty's help I'm not :)

  • globalgirl on 02/08/2015 - 09:53
    +1

    It sounds like financially it might help you gt ahead, but there's also the personal/psychological side to consider. As other posters above have said - how adaptable are your kids? Are they likely to settle quickly into new schools and find new friends? You say you're the sole income earner, so I assume that will remain the same in Canada? So if your wife isn't working, what will she do? In Australia, she probably has a good support network of family and friends to keep her busy while the kids are at school - hobbies and interests she's established here? Will she be able to do the same in Canada? It can be very isolating being in a new country for the other spouse, even when English is spoken.

    What about relationships with extended family? Grandparents? Aunts and uncles? I don't know what the dynamic is like in your family, but if your kids and their grandparents are close, will you be able to visit enough to maintain the connection so both parties get the benefit of that relationship? Are they old enough to have meaningful Skype / other contact? Are your / your wife's parents healthy enough to come visit you from time to time as well.

    What's the education system like where you'd head? Comparable to Sydney? What about healthcare?

    These are just some of the questions I'd be throwing into the mix before making a decision?

    • docians on 02/08/2015 - 18:37
      +3

      To be honest my work involved a lot of moving until 2012.
      Since 2012 we have been living in the same place, and, my eldest who is in year three does not really have any friends, and neither do I (did I tell you we are both Aspies? :) )
      So we are planning a big move to a capital city anyway, and then I thought why not Canada?

      wrt to my wife, we both decided ten years ago that she would stay at home until the kids went to school. With the third child going to kinder next year, she has mentioned she would like to start working. Sadly though she is normotypical she does not have a great network of family or friends here. Oh did I mention that we moved to Australia ten years ago, and ten years later it is still very isolating despite English being our first language. I suspect a lot has to do with my Aspergers, but after 41 years, I have kind of accepted it.

      Extended family- none; Grandparents have to fly in to spend time with grandkids

      Education system- no clue but I think there are no private schools, really unsure about guns though

      Health care- I believe they are worse off in that there is a shortage of doctors, and there are no private hospitals

      Trouble is I wish I knew what it was in Canada before making the move

  • smilearchitect on 02/08/2015 - 10:22

    interesting can i ask are you a health professional as i am in same boat as you?

    • megadeth on 02/08/2015 - 11:03

      I had a friend (an Oracle certified DB Professional then) moved to Canada with family and never looked back, basically happened in 2001-2. He was a migrant though, with no family ties here.

    • docians on 02/08/2015 - 18:42

      We are in the same boat my friend :)

  • Colombian on 02/08/2015 - 17:20
    +6

    I'm in a similar situation like you. We are Australian Citizen now after moved here from Colombia. We also got a PR from Canada and we have until December to activate the visas. We are going to go there, stay for a Month and come back. My wife is a physiotherapist and according to my research she would be getting the same amount of money in Canada. In my case, well I'm an IT guy with hearing difficulty since 4 years old and for that reason it has been very difficult to me to find a job. One of the big reasons is that I'm not able to talk by phone. I have been doing cleaning since I got here to help with the finances at home. I contacted the Canadian Hearing Society and they told me to contact them again when we get there to meet a counselor to help me in finding a job.

  • dandandan on 02/08/2015 - 18:34
    +3

    You'll never know if you never go and you can always come back. Not everyone gets opportunities like this, yes it would be a big move and lifestyle change however your family would have some great travel opportunities and cultural experiences right on their doorstep. Good luck whatever you decide.

  • badonde on 02/08/2015 - 19:00
    +2

    The main thing is the cold. I just moved to Aus recently with my Canadian partner - if you like cold weather, you will be fine. But if you've never experienced Canadian winter (i'm talking -30C or worse ) then it would be worthwhile staying for a season and seeing how it affects you.

    I can't see in your original post if you have ever lived in such a cold place, but if you have been living in Australia your whole life…. you will be in for quite a shock.

  • BartholemewH on 02/08/2015 - 19:24

    My wife would not move away from her family at all, let alone to Canada so your situation is completely foreign to me. That said if your wife is on board, go for it.

  • gimli on 02/08/2015 - 20:31

    If it aint broke…

    I guess you have to work out for yourself if the money "saved" is worth it.

  • KaTst3R on 02/08/2015 - 22:03

    For the same pay, you could probably stretch your dollar a little more over there…

    From a tax perspective, you will be paying lower tax which will be money in your pocket, definitely would help to have more spending power on Black Friday…

  • Islund on 02/08/2015 - 22:42

    Canada - way to go if I could get a job there. Me not a graduate so pushing uphill

  • [Deactivated] on 02/08/2015 - 23:17
    +1

    Buy the car in America, then drive it back to Canada.

    It'd be a nice road trip for the family

  • CanadianBeaver on 03/08/2015 - 03:03
    +14

    Ok there, As a Canadian I can tell you this.

    Firstly for the prices you look at for cars/bills and all the other things you need to learn reading the fine prints. The prices displayed is almost always before tax, delivery licensing and many other mandatory fees. It is true that the living costs are lower but the margin is really small and its becoming closer as we speak. The electricity bills for an example; we pay one of the lowest rates in the world, however due to our weather we also use a lot more than other countries, and I can pretty much guarantee you in a year you will see yourself paying more than when you did in Australia. One thing to consider is benefits like super/annual leave/paid sick leave/award rates is not really present in Canada. You need to negotiate these detail specifically with your employer and make sure that you understand what is exact value of the package offered. My advice would be to calculate your Aussie salary with the benefits mentioned above to see if your pay is really that much more in Canada.

    TLDR: Australia is an awesome place with many benefits, looking into it closely when comparing to Canada.

    On the bright side, Canada is a wonderful country with a true four seasons. If you are heading off to one of the major cities you will understand what is true multiculturalism and our amazing French/Eng background. Our economy is backed by a vast supply of oil, lumber, timber and minerals. Most of the people are nice and you will definitely not have much trouble adjusting if you choose to. One of the major differences for me was nightlife, because the wages are lower + our culture of shopping after work, you will see more retail stores stay open until 9PM in the evening and clubs and bar even later.

    I typed this after a long 10 hour shift on my tablet so excuse the mistakes :D

    I can help you more if you tell me which city you are looking into. :)

    Also watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrA4V6YF6SA

    P.S shovel snow for one whole winter season and you will hate it with a passion ;)

    • PackAttack on 05/08/2015 - 12:09
      +2

      I have lived in Alberta for 2 years and I wholeheartedly agree with that last line.

    • docians on 05/08/2015 - 21:54

      Thanks for all your info
      If I were to go it would be Toronto or cities/ towns around

  • slasher_14 on 03/08/2015 - 06:42
    +20

    I lived in Sydney and moved to Canada at the age of 30 on an initial 2 year work visa. I've been here 3 years and have received PR.

    First of all where in Canada would you be going? Also what status would you get? Are you getting some sort of residency through your employer?

    I live in Toronto, it's a good city with a lot going on. Similar to Melbourne. Vancouver is a bit more like Sydney but smaller…There is a good work/life balance there and a lot of outdoorsy things to do. We really liked it there, but due to Toronto being a bigger city and having more jobs in our field we chose Toronto.

    I prefer living here, at least for now. It's not often you get to do something new and different like move to a new country. People are friendly over here and it is a very multi-cultural place to live. Lots of good food, shows, etc. You can fly to places like Chicago, New York and Washington in about an hour, London UK is 5 hours from eastern Canada. South America/Carribean are about the same. So holidays can be quite exotic without the 12-20+ hour plane ride.

    On the place to live side of things, in Toronto there are a lot more apartments (condo's) in the downtown area to live. There are houses as well that are downtown or close-ish, usually you get semi-detached houses and rent is cheaper than Syd/Mel. If you do want a house with a yard then you might have to live in the suburbs. The commute in Toronto is pretty sucky, the freeways get jammed and the transport is ok-ish but often gets delayed. I used to think cityrail was pretty bad but it's a lot better than the TTC. Living downtown though gives you more options, I can get streetcars (trams), subway and/or walk, if you are living in the suburbs and your train is delayed (say due to a breakdown) then you might be stuck for a while.

    As for cost of living it is cheaper here, Toronto and Vancouver are at a peak for housing prices so things are pretty similar to the major cities in Oz. I wouldnt recommend buying a place, it is better to rent for now and then see how you like being here first.

    Otherwise things are cheaper here, meals, groceries, etc. Mobile phone plans are expensive in Toronto, internet is cheaper. Generally things are a bit cheaper here to buy compared to oz, but if you are on ozbargain then obviously you aren't afraid to look around for a deal.

    You dont get as much annual leave over here, but that can depend on your employer and how senior you are. I contract so it's not something I am very familiar with, I believe 2 weeks is standard but people at my current employer get up to 5.

    Weather will take getting used to…Vancouver may have some snow in winter, but it is usually in the single digits. Eastern Canada has had the coldest winters in the last 2 years for a long time. Last February it did not get above 0 the whole month…The winter 3 years ago wasnt as bad, it would often be around maybe 1 or 2, then get colder for a bit…We did get to -30 or colder last year here, I believe that is also what Montreal/Ottawa get to.

    If you look on a map Toronto is actually a lot further south than those cities, so it's usually not as bad…But it can suck at times. Still the first winter is definently a unique experience.

    Lastly the Canadian economy is in a recession right now, it's been I think 5-6 months officially of negative growth (but the government hasn't released the latest figures, they will be calling an early election maybe in September). Finding a job takes a looooooooooong time over here. In my field I am used to making applications and usually getting interviews within a couple of weeks. Over here you might apply and it can take weeks to hear back from recruiters. It often takes months to find a new job (sometimes 6 or more) even for qualified people in high demand fields.

    I guess that isnt an issue for you as you would already have a job, but its just something to keep in mind. Canada/Australia mostly avoided the GFC, but it seems like both have now reached a point where things are slowing down.

    Anyway you can message me if you have any more questions. I would say go for it, Canada is a great place to live, it is a good place to raise a family and you will all be better for the experience of living here IMO.

  • rapoot6 on 03/08/2015 - 08:10

    I am quite sure you have considered this but how stable is the job market for you at that pay level in Canada? Is it a short term urgent requirement or one which is likely to continue for a period feasible to justify a move.

  • mjp80 on 03/08/2015 - 09:39
    +4

    I'm a Canadian living in Australia. I've been here for 4 years (can apply for citizenship next month!). I got a decent raise in terms of pay in dollars which has compensated for the WAY higher cost of living here. I live in Sydney and make 105k. I reckon that's approximately equivalent to living in Toronto and making $100k.

    You can take a look at historical FX rates for AUD/CAD, but they're both pretty much resource currencies. The CAD will move with oil price, the AUD with iron ore (and to a lesser extent, coal and gold). They've been approximately 1:1 with each other the entire time I've been here.

    Personal opinion here, not looking to start an argument, but Canada's public schools are FAR better than Australian ones, particularly high schools. There is no public funding of private schools in Canada, which means better quality public schools because there are far fewer private schools. My wife is a teacher and based on what I've seen of the HSC curriculum, any Australian student would really struggle in first year of a science-based degree at a North American university. If we stay long-term and put our kids through school here it will probably be private (if we can afford it!) at a school that offers the International Baccalaureate program, or else a selective school. Australia's schools are probably the number one question mark in terms of if we will stay here permanently.

    On the other hand, snow/winter sucks. Seriously, it stops being a novelty when there's 50cm of it in your driveway and you have to deal with it before you can leave for work. You end up spending a LOT more time inside than you do in Australia during the winter.

    So many differences, but they've both great countries and I love them both. PM me if you want with specific questions about the area you're looking at potentially moving to, or anything else really.

    • chillin222 on 03/08/2015 - 16:55

      Interesting post. I guess it illustrates what happens to average scores when you segregate students into selective schools and non-selective.

      It's not all bad though, I would guess that the top performers would be far better off here. For example, it's harder to get into Sydney University law (or UNSW, UTS, Macquarie, ANU and Monash) than it is to get into Oxford.

      • [Deactivated] on 03/08/2015 - 19:38

        I did not know that. lol
        You'd be surprised to see what some Sydney law students are like. They have big mouths and don't know what "(profanity) off" means.

        Most of them vote for the Liberal Party too. We do secret polling at our uni. :p

      • mjp80 on 03/08/2015 - 20:17

        What do you mean by "harder"? Maybe in pure number of applicants per accepted student, but that doesn't mean anything. It just means a lot of mediocre applicants try, or that applying is cheap and easy.

        How many students apply to both Sydney University and Oxford and only get into Oxford? Of students that are accepted to both, how many choose USyd over Oxford?

        Internationally (and probably even locally), an Oxford degree will take you way further than USyd. USyd usually rounds out the top 50 in world top 100 rankings, Oxford is routinely in the top 5.

        Canada's top universities (Toronto, McGill, UBC) also routinely outrank Australia's best.

        edit: also, I edited the wrong numbers in my first comment… I meant to say 130k in Sydney was equivalent to 105k in Toronto! :) Not 100 to 105

        • kangaroo on 03/08/2015 - 20:41

          Agree with your salary comparison. I got a 25% raise when I transferred from Toronto Office to Sydney Office. HR said that the salary adjustment was to cover the cost of living in Aus.

        • chillin222 on 09/08/2015 - 15:29

          "Harder" = higher mark required. There are standard conversion tables. Oxford's ATAR is approx 97 for law, while the unis I've listed are all higher (e.g. Sydney 99.7).

          Nothing to do with applicant numbers.

          For law, Oxford is #3 in QS Rankings. However we're right behind with Melbourne (#8), Sydney (#13), UNSW (#15), ANU (#16).

          In overall terms, while McGill and Toronto are #21 and #20 respectively, UBC is #43. Compare with Australia - ANU (#25), Sydney (#33), Melbourne (#37). So while Canada comes out on top, it's pretty close.

          *Uni rankings don't really mean anything when it comes to undergrad education. But they do prove that Aus is no educational backwater.

        • mjp80 on 09/08/2015 - 18:04

          Care to share a link to these "standard conversion tables"? To the best of my knowledge, no such things exist. If you think Sydney Uni Law is better than Oxford in any respect, you're living in a fantasy world.

        • chillin222 on 10/08/2015 - 00:24

          @mjp80: Of course conversion tables exist. How do you think Australians get admitted to Oxford, or how do you think all the international students get admitted to Australian unis?

          Oxford requires an IB rank of 38-40 (see their website). That is equivalent to an ATAR of 96.35 to 98.15. Here's the table: http://vtac.edu.au/pdf/ib_notional_atar.pdf

          Did I say it was better? I said it was harder to get into. I have no idea if it's better or not, I know its pretty damn good (as I mentioned, number 13 in the world). If Sydney uni was in the UK, it would be ranked 5th in the country. If it was in the US it would be ranked 8th.

  • macca9123 on 03/08/2015 - 09:53
    +2

    I got relocated to Calgary for a year in 2006 and truly loved it. Granted, I was single and carefree, but the change was wonderful and refreshing. I was particularly into mountains, hiking and photography so the placement in Calgary was perfect with the Canadian Rockies just down the road. As others have said the winters can be brutal and the best way to deal with it is to actually get outside and make use of it. Yes, it can be bitterly cold in winter but go do some skiing, snow shoeing, ice skating or get yourself into a curling bonspiel. If you just sit inside then winter can really get you down. The weather channel also quickly becomes the most important channel on the TV!

    A friend of mine over there had a choice of living in Vancouver or Calgary. Both are great locations for different reasons. For him it boiled down to a choice of green (grass) and grey (skies) of Vancouver, or blue (sky) and yellow (grass) of Calgary. For him the blue skies won out. YMMV.

    Cost of living isn't too dissimilar to here - yes, some things are cheaper and some things are more expensive. Also check whether you will still be paid superannuation on top of your wage, or whether you have to contribute to that from your pre-tax dollars. When I was living in the US recently, Aussies would make comments to me about the cheaper cost of living in the US but that was without considering the long term costs that basically evened everything up, such as contributing to your own retirement savings, healthcare costs and education costs. The way I saw it was that day-to-day everything was cheaper but long term it all evened up in the end. Canada isn't as extreme as this, but you should consider the impact of any long term costs (hence my comment on retirement savings).

    If you are buying a second hand car over there, make sure you get the under side of it inspected. With all the salt they put on the roads to melt the snow in the winter, it does horrible things to the underside of cars over time. There's a reason why car washes usually have an option to wash under your car…

    You should also have some money tucked aside in an emergency fund for moving back to Australia at some point. You may find that you all hate it over there, or can't stand the winters, or have simply had enough of Tim Hortons coffee. When my family and I moved back to Australia last year from living in the US it cost me the best part of $10k to get a 20' shipping container packed and sent from San Francisco to Sydney, not to mention the costs of temporary living, airline tickets, cars and all the other odds and ends once we did land back in Australia. Luckily, I had planned our US expatriation for this eventuality so it was mostly anticipated.

    But if you can afford it, do it! It will be difficult emotionally and culturally at times, but bear with it (pun intended) you will all be richer for the experience and look back on the memories fondly.

    Happy to answer any other questions you may have.

  • Sydneyswans on 03/08/2015 - 10:09

    Are there any issues with language barriers in Canada? I know English is still the main language around there but do you still need to have a good command of French? I don'think OP would plan to move to Quebec though but was just wondering..

    • pacman99 on 03/08/2015 - 12:00
      +1

      French is only required in Quebec and kind of expected in Ottawa. Outside of those two areas, you'll find pockets of French-speaking people but it's definitely not required. It's definitely an asset though and sharply increases your ability to land a government job.

  • bargainjargon on 03/08/2015 - 11:14

    I'd do it but my wife and I don't have kids. It might be different if we have kids. Then again, it might give them a different and perhaps even invaluable perspective having lived in multiple countries like like my wife and I have. You can always come back here for holidays and you can still think of Australia as your home. You'll just have another home now. Good luck either way!

  • rmamila on 03/08/2015 - 11:42

    I worked and lived in few cities in US for few years before moving to Australia. I traveled to Canada many times to visit friends who were living there. As I see the difference, in US and Canada both pays hell a lot more than Australia pays for Professional workers. However if you are not a Professional and have not specialized in any area with a University degree Australia pays few times more than what US and Canada pay. I was working in IT in US (wife didn't have to work) used to earn few times more than what average American earns. However my wife wanted to move here because we have few relatives and many close friends in here but not in US other than couple of work mates. In here I work for a big IT company for past 7-8 years and I managed to catch up with my US salary last year after adding more years of experience. My wife too works in here and she too is having a Uni degree in Finance. However our combined income hasn't provided the same buying power we had in US with my sole income. However I see my wife and kids are happy here so I want to keep staying in here.

    I have a friend in here who was born and brought up in Canada and works in Finance but not in Professinal Accountant level but in Admin role. He is earning few times more in here compared to what he could earn in Canada.

    In US and Canada common man income sits far low compared to Australia. However in both places Professional income sits at the same place or higher compared to Australia. Based on this stats and your qualifications you can decide which place is better for you.

  • John on 03/08/2015 - 12:12

    Well, I have a Canadian friend who moved to Perth with his family only to return to Canada a couple year later. He was even ready to settle down here.. built a house etc. I believe he was looking for FIFO work, and for a year or so he did that. But when the industry went unstable, and he lost his FIFO roster, he returned.

  • roguescholar on 03/08/2015 - 12:41
    -1

    Can't really help you, but if you do move you could set a website called CanBargain.

  • Viderzo on 03/08/2015 - 13:38

    Which city in Canada? There are alot of similarities between Australia and Canada (I have researched this for a move a few years back). Using Vancouver, BC as a an example I can tell you that first of all the winter are much nastier there. And you need to load up on your hockey knowledge. If you know nothing about hockey then you might as well go back to Australia :)

    In seriousness here are the main cost that seems to be cheaper than Australia (based on my 2007 research data): School, transport (cars etc), rents, health care (universal health care yay!), groceries (I asked friends with 1 kid on his grocery bills), electronics, clothing. I can't seem to find anything that are more expensive there than here except for the flight cost from a particular Asian country where most of my family resides. Gun is legal there but they don't have the same gun culture as in the USA. Medicine (off the shelf and prescriptions) are much cheaper than USA.

    Also they have Tim Hortons :)

  • sal78 on 03/08/2015 - 13:40

    it sounds like you want to move so go for it. we have 3 kids, they have lots of friends, love their school, our family is here, lots of cousins, support network and our friends. not sure where you live but its the perfect weather in bris.. had the best weekend. canada is too cold fof me. its a great opportunity, diff circumstances, just go for it!!

  • T-man on 03/08/2015 - 15:27

    You will be missed Australia Steak, I've had stayed in Canada for 1 year and 1 year in Tokyo, during that time, I missed Australia Steak a lot.

    Also, the costs of living in both cities (Toronto and Tokyo) are lower than my city (Brisbane) in my experience.

    Canada is good for shopping as most of the US shipping sites ship to Canada, whereas they don't ship to Australia. Yes, you mentioned above, due to the proximity to the US, you will be utilised a lot of things about living in Canada.

    Good luck with your decision.

  • Lonny on 03/08/2015 - 15:56

    If I had my chance again I would live in Canada.
    I lived in Toronto for ten years (1970 to 1980) and loved every minute of it. However, being fairly young in 1980(33) I still had itchy feet and came back to Oz. I don't regret it but in hindsight life in Canada was superior. It's a great country with wonderful people. In fact, the happiest people I have ever come across in my sixty eight country sojourn.
    However, beware the winters. It's not the cold that's hard to take (everything is centrally heated) it's the length of the winters. In Toronto they go from November to May. That's a lot of time to spend most of your time indoors.
    But, having said that, the winters are something I truly miss here in Sydney. Walking around the streets and markets on a Saturday morning in the snow is very hard to beat. It's left an indelible surrealness in my psyche. And the summers are surprisingly hot, albeit, somewhat truncated.
    I have great memories of Canada and many great friends to this day.
    In summary - There is no easier lifestyle on the planet.
    PS And you will NOT miss Australian steak. They do a much better steak than we do.

  • Dr Techno on 03/08/2015 - 17:50

    Well if your not taking a pay cut I would say do it. I've got alot of friends that migrated to Canada (Vancouver) and they all had to take a paycut compared to Australian salaries. Almost everything is cheaper there (bigger market without the Australia Tax). I think the decision should be more based on the fact if you want to pull your kids out of school and into a different country. Almost everything in Canada is cheaper,bigger market.

    It would be fun for a few years not sure if I would stay there forever a bit too cold for me.

  • dlakers3peat on 03/08/2015 - 19:03

    So you are basing a major life decision purely based on economics. What about family and friends, they mean nothing to you. From what you saying you are already comfortable so what are you hoping to achieve migrating to Canada.

  • [Deactivated] on 03/08/2015 - 19:34

    Go to Canada if you enjoy a more friendlier and multicultural nation. But beware, it's a cold ass place.
    There's less hate against muslims and jews. You don't find many "liberal party racists and bigots" over there. Canada also knows that the worst threat facing them is not halal certification or Chinese national buyers/immigrants.

  • kangaroo on 03/08/2015 - 20:26
    +1

    I lived in Canada for seven years until 2010. I have dual citizenship. I love Canada, it has the edge over Australia in many aspects. But, end of the day the weather was intolerable for me hence decided to move to Australia and loving it.

    While cost of living in Canada is less than Aus, in big cities (Toronto Vs Sydney), it will more or less even out. House prices in Toronto has gone up the roof in recent years. Car insurance, property taxes are very high too.

    I also like the fact that Aus is close to Asia, the economic powerhouse of this century.

  • PaperplaneXXX on 03/08/2015 - 21:49
    +1

    I am russian and lived in Siberia all my life.
    Have been in Australia only 2 years.

    I Would say to OP…consider climate factor as an important one for your kids!
    Winter is FUN for a week or so …but in long term…not at all.

    Being in my early 30 es I suffer from arthritis - consequences of cold weather and not enough fruits and vegetables in long Siberian Winters.

    In canada sometimes can get very cold up to minus 25!
    You should go first and live there for a couple of weeks in Winter. ONly then you can imagine how it feels.

    Although many people love cold and can't take climate in QLD for example.
    It all depends.

    Australia is a paradise :-)

  • ganymede on 03/08/2015 - 21:55
    +1

    I lived in Canada for 6 years, studied engineering at one of their top university. If you compare price of food, I would say Canada is definitely more expensive. Check out Sobeys, Fortinos, Metro and compare them to Coles and Woolies. Properties might be cheaper but it all depends on location as well. On the plus side, Canucks are very friendly (consider that you are stuck indoor most of the time during winter).

    Canada's national unemployment rate is slightly than Australia and much higher if you go to the Atlantic provinces. Minimum wages is lower than Australia so if you factor in price of food and daily essentials you might ended up with less purchasing power than here in Australia. While Canada and Australia's economy has some similarities (mining, O&G, resources) Canada's economy is very much dependent on USA, if big brother USA sneeze or catches a cold, Canada will suffer as well. Australia on the other hand is very much dependent on Asia and you don't need a PhD to know that Asia will be center of growth for many years to come. Close proximity to Asia will directly benefit Australia's economy.

    • kangaroo on 03/08/2015 - 22:18

      Superb points! I agree. Canadian economy is heavily dependent on the US economy. After the dot com collapse, IT sector suffered in Canada (early 2000s). I have nearly a half a dozen friends in Canada with engineering and IT degrees whom took totally different career paths such as Real Estate, Car Sales etc, because they couldn't find the right job.

  • mightyfes on 03/08/2015 - 22:25

    I'd go since same pay to Canada. It is a much nicer country overall, you wont regret it.

  • Lucky13 on 04/08/2015 - 06:26
    +1

    Ooh go to Canada, my brother did a working holiday over there in Vancouver and loved it :)

  • T1OOO on 04/08/2015 - 07:33

    I'd go too. U don't have to stay but at least try it. With 150k u can do a lot and ur closer to USA and Europe. That's a big plus for me!

  • rmamila on 04/08/2015 - 11:36

    How you enjoy your life in Canada will totally depend on the relatives and network of friends you already have or going to build over there. However your financial situation will be based on what profession you are in. What sort of work you do for living?

  • centrelink on 04/08/2015 - 18:27

    It be stupid to stay when you have a good opportunity.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/08/2015 - 23:01
    +1

    I'm Canadian (born Malaysian but lived there 10 years and am a citizen now) and moved here because my hubby (Australian) was sick of winter and wanted to raise the kids here. We moved back Dec last year so I have a recent comparison for you.

    Like previous posts say, it all depends on where you live. I'm from Winnipeg, Manitoba where it is cold 5 months of the year (I say 5 months because you are Australian and below 15C is probably cold for you!). At least 3 months will be -20C or less (-50C is achievable with this wind chill factor). You get used to it and houses are heated and insulated well (built for conditions there). Shovelling snow is awesome because you don't have to pay to go to the gym :) public transport is good and more and more bike paths are being built. Roads do have lots of potholes as it is kinda unavoidable due to the weather conditions. The snow ploughs come out pretty quickly when it does snow. Roads are salted or sand is used so you will need to keep up with cleaning and polishing your car well to prevent rust. But yes, used car costs less in Canada. You can also drive to America and buy a used car for even cheaper and drive it back. Cost of living there is cheap- housing prices are low in some areas and higher priced houses are still affordable. People are friendly and it's a cultural melting pot there. But if you compare Winnipeg to say, Vancouver, obviously Vancouver will have a higher cost of living. Vancouver is very similar to Sydney. It is hard to afford a house with a big backyard where kids can play in. Having said that, I think people there are more friendly compared to Sydney.

    For shopping: Don't forget each province (state) has their own additional tax. Federal tax and Provincial tax is not included in prices- you must add it to the price tag you see. Unprocessed food does not get taxed (junk food like chips is taxed)

    Going out to eat or using services like for hair cuts: Tipping is the norm. 10-15% depending on where you are. Unlike Americans though, the minimum wage isn't as low so do not feel pressured to tip high if service is not up to standard

    To be a true Ozbargainer, get your American visa here so you can drive to America and shop there once in a while. Pretty much everything is cheaper there! Plus it's cheaper to take your kids to Disneyland/Disneyworld and other American destinations (please don't forget the Canadian ones like Banff too)

    Schools are great. My son (just turned 7) has speech issues and there was a speech pathologist who would work at the school a few days a week. She would pull my son out of some classes to work on his speech. This was free (ok, paid for by taxes). I have nothing of that sort here in NSW and have to pay out of pocket to send my son to classes. Teachers at the school were dedicated and friendly. They didn't push young kids so much but made sure they were enjoying what they were learning. My son's school now sends so much homework back, I wonder what he does at school. However, this is probably not good info as each individual school is different

    Daycare is cheaper. Still have long waiting lists but you can get lucky and find a spot. There are private home day cares- you must make sure you get references for these as some are iffy

    There is no private clinic in Canada (wait… Maybe Alberta has some… I remember there being talk of starting it a few years back). Everyone is treated equally- if wait times are long, it doesn't matter if you are rich or poor- everyone is treated equal. If you are rich, just go to an American hospital (again, worthwhile getting an American visa prior to you going to Canada)

    I would move back if given chance but I've used up all my money moving my pets and family here (should have hidden the pets like Johnny Depp, lol). Again, depends on where you move to. I'm in Newcastle and already planning a move to Melbourne suburbs to find affordable housing closer to a large city.

    Australia is awesome and the weather is unbeatable, but I would say just do it! You already have a job lined up so why not? Move back if you find that you don't like it. I think this is the best way to give your kids a chance to experience a different lifestyle. Feel free to message me if you have questions. Sorry this post is so long!

    • [Deactivated] on 05/08/2015 - 10:05

      Edit: sorry, forgot that you don't need a visa prior to crossing the American border if you are an Australian citizen. That's for other nationalities. Australians just have to go into the office at the border, answer questions, have fingerprints and photo taken and pay a fee.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/08/2015 - 23:12

    Oops, forgot important links for those interested in moving to Canada: www.kijiji.com. It's like Gumtree.
    Coupons are pretty big in Canada- I try to use them whenever I can
    http://smartcanucks.ca/ is a great website for bargain notifications
    I also try to only buy items that are supposed to last a long time from Costco for their return policy. Return anything, anytime, as long as you maintain your membership. Other places only offer warranty for like, a year
    Exchange policy is great in Canada- never feel embarrassed going back to return something that is faulty or you decide you actually don't need
    Price match items at major supermarkets. Collect weekly flyers and go only to one major supermarket that price matches (like Superstore or Walmart) and show them the other store's flyer that shows the same it for cheaper. Saves time having to drive around to multiple stores
    It is not compulsory for your company to contribute into superannuation like here but most companies do offer a match program where if you put in some from your salary, they will put some in too. Make sure you ask your company if they wil be providing you with health insurance (many will if you are a professional). This is for optometry and dental
    Don't forget to get your kids RESPs if you stay long term. The government contributes a certain percentage to what you contribute. This is an education fund for your kids when (for studies after high school graduation)

  • Mamia on 05/08/2015 - 05:56

    Thanks for info, moving to Vancouver with 4 kids next year for one year so will need a car asap, how would one go about getting a car in USA? Does it have to be second hand or can you buy new and take it back to Canada? Would there be taxes to pay at border new or second hand? Is there a "car sales.com" equiv ? Can you apply for a visa for USA before we leave Aus? Would it be a lot cheaper in USA? Thanks

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