Vendor "spam" : Discounts do not = bargains

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  SydGuy on 04/01/2010 - 15:52

  Yeah there are some Reps which abuse this site.

  I think the ops should use their discression more and ban reps for a say a month for repeatingly posting dodgy deals. So if they do 2 or more of these deals in a week or 2, ban them for a month. This gives the reps time to get their act together and if they are using this site as their primary advertising space, when they come back, they might even give us better bargains to repair the damage :) good for us all - puts them into their place quickly and we don't waste our time hearing from all the dodgy deals from assort…. i mean reps. The people who actually find them to bargains can visit their site independantly of this site for a month, and for the other 99% of people, we can concentrate on the real bargains.

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  Natt on 04/01/2010 - 15:55

  I think ozbargain suffers a little bit from its own popularity with reps as well.

  Even if reps just post once, there are many joining up. So things get swamped.

  I think if a rep wants to tote themselves on ozbargain - its got to be …

  .. well a bargain :P

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  Mikinoz on 04/01/2010 - 16:15

  +1

  Have to agree although everyone has a vastly different opionion of a bargain although generall bargains equal much reduced price as per normal markets, and a quantity that can make some happy ie more than 5 items IMO

  Pity we dont have a list similar to new deals and top deals where the list for vendor deals are stored that way the bargain hunters wont have to look to far and the reps wont worry about exposure as it will always be on the front page. just my 2 cents

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  Davo1111 on 04/01/2010 - 16:28

  +1

  Sorry natt, i accidently unpublished your post. Looks like OZB is having a little meltdown atm. ergh. I've reversed it, but things are playing up.

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  Broden on 04/01/2010 - 19:59

  How come one of the new deals redirects here?

  • 

    Mikinoz on 04/01/2010 - 20:04

    weird isnt it , the board/site is having problems

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  scotty on 04/01/2010 - 23:19

  We are already having Store rep posting limit in place however I know certain reps like to get around it by posting on multiple domains they own. Feel free to report them here if you find some reps that have posted excessively.

  Currently rep posted deals also don't get the initial vote (i.e. reps cannot vote for their own deals). There it's just one negative vote to send them away. I am having quite a few reps complaining that "their super-cheap bargains don't get a chance because of 1 negative vote" but I guess it's their problem for not posting something that we want.

  • 

    fungi79 on 17/02/2010 - 00:07

    So does that mean 0+/1- will send the ad away? What if they make a fake account (easy to do) and just add one positive to their ad?

    I will personally vote 1 neg on ads to make them go away if I have to.

    • 

      scotty on 17/02/2010 - 21:22

      Fake account is against OzBargain's terms and conditions and will get them — both the users and their websites — banned from OzBargain.

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  pauly on 05/01/2010 - 03:10

  But I think there is a marked increase in vendors who are posting about their items. And I don’t think they are “bargains” more like the normal reductions that happen as part of the business process.

  And it smacks of free advertising

  Yes, there certainly has been an increase in the number of retailers advertising around here. I guess this is just the nature on any public forums, as they grow so do the number of 'spammers'. In my opinion, fortunately the concept of high user-participation through voting here filters these people out efficiently and in a short time frame.

  If anything, I would think this concept will work to their disadvantage, as our savvy members are always pointing out cheaper alternatives elsewhere / warning against the store and vote down a deal. Remember that there are high chances of these comments being indexed by search engines. Any smart buyer would do some research first before buying anything on the Internet and the more bad press about a store there is on public domain, the more business they may potentially loose.

  But increasingly its just … blah blah.. 25% off .. blah blah ..special price for you

  If reps are posting genuine bargains, I don't see why this would be a problem. Even if the savings are not that great, certain users around here may still benefit from them. And again thanks to the voting system, you'll notice that posts with 'xx% off' but don't really offer the best deals around disappear very quickly from the main page.

  r maybe we really should as a community start holding vendors to very tough standards?

  This is a very good idea, however I think putting too many restrictions could also deter potential retailers with genuine deals from posting. And I'm certain that vendors who intend to get free advertising out of nothing will still find ways to get around the tougher standards.

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  SomeGuyOnOzB on 05/01/2010 - 14:16

  There has been a marked increase in new businesses posting vague deals. :S

  My usual process is:
  1) if the deal is vague and new-ish, with low or no positives, ask the vendor to identify a couple of good bargains
  2) if I come back and find the deal is still low on positives without any specific details, I might unpublish it. The other issue though, is if I leave the deal there, then OzBargain members can check what the vendor has done in the past, and decide how they want to approach this dealer. (eg repeated lack of details usually leads to a request by members to block the seller)

  What would be good would be different handling for unpublished deals to be handled differently.

  If a deal is unpublished
  1. it no longer appears in the new deals page (removes clutter)
  2. it is still locked while unpublished, but still allows the poster and the mods to work with it (so we can still unpublish and ask the vendor to let us know when the deal has been fixed up)
  3. general members can go to the bargain either by a direct link or through the list of deals a member has submitted
  4. The deal is clearly marked as unpublished somehow.

  That'd be great :)

  Maybe also the ability to filter on or off the unpublished deals and/or a separate listing where people can browse the unpublished deals if they like

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  fungi79 on 17/02/2010 - 00:00

  There is a big thread about just that here: http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/22313, what is a bargain. If there is a process where the rep has to prove the price is 25% less than the lowest competing price that would be ideal, otherwise it goes into a different section, perhaps called 'ads/sponsers'. That would remove a lot of clutter from the new deal page, since everyone likes to get onto a good deal quickly and don't want to wade through 3 pages of ads.

  I also believe reps should not be allowed to vote neg on threads. Otherwise he can just vote down posts that doesn't agree and that is too great a power to have as an advertiser, almost a form of censorship.

  • 

    SomeGuyOnOzB on 17/02/2010 - 11:27

    I think we (mods) also discussed that and suggested it for Scotty's large to do list. :)

    The bit about the poster of a thread shouldn't be able to vote on comments.

    ---

    Though, site amendments are performed between Scotty's day time job, family and getting to relax so it will take a while.

    But I'll post in the mods forum with a link to this thread :) to bump the topic up again.

  • 

    SomeGuyOnOzB on 17/02/2010 - 11:35

    Raising the issue in the mods forum about whether a bargain is a bargain for maybe just 1% savings

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  elcheapoinoz on 17/02/2010 - 12:06

  In mu humble opinion. reps shouldn't be allowed at all.
  Reason is, they are posting stuff here to make a profit, whether a lot or little.
  they're an interested party and can easily corrupt the fairness of ozbargain.
  my $0.02

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  Davo1111 on 17/02/2010 - 12:28

  +2

  Hi guys, great to hear awesome discussion going on :)

  First of all, its hard to have a min % discount on items, as the RRP is inflated between products. Just look at logitech - everyday price is 50% below RRP. Where something like apple, when it gets 15% off, people go crazy. So this idea is quite hard to implement.

  The reps thing is tough, we have enough trouble with sockpuppeters. I would strongly suggest you guys all vote appropiatly. If we see a series of neg voted deals by a rep, then we pull out the banhammer (or the ozbargain server takes over and does one for us). Having said that, there are a number of reps who post good deals, and they are genuine bargains.

  • 

    fungi79 on 17/02/2010 - 12:37

    Davo, I am not suggesting discount on RRP, which I know is over inflated, but rather min% off a competitor's price. For example if the product is computer component related, the price comparision might be with MSY, or for example the Denon 'deal', the comparison is with another online retailer.

    The problem with neg voting is that the neg comments are in turn neg voted by the OP, I have suggested removing that right from the OP to improve the system.

    • 

      [Deactivated] on 20/02/2010 - 21:11

      +1

      Which competitor, which state. City or Country, great in theory and then if we make it so hard then no one wants to post. Then what about the STEAM posts or iTunes freebies? Really you need to look outside your own little world. A Free shipping deal can be attractive to our WA members where as the MSY price isn't because of the shipping costs.

      And if OfficeWorks has it in stock then the deal shouldn't be posted as OW will match it with 5% off? But without the deal being made available then OW wont match it.

      And removing the OP right to neg a neg comment is free speech. What if the original neg vote is "unjustified", how does the OP indicate that? Again you are looking only from your point of view, yes its unfair when they neg your valid comment, but when they neg an invalid comment its fair, so, should we as Mods have the power to determine if all your comments are valid? See the problem we face. Its NOT simple

  • 

    SomeGuyOnOzB on 17/02/2010 - 15:04

    There's also the report button on a deal, just a bit below the deal's details. That's the fastest way to get the attention of some mods :)

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  fungi79 on 17/02/2010 - 16:00

  Where is the "I think this is a crap deal" option? :)

  Seriously, which reason do I put down? Spam? Or others and then put in reason?

  • 

    Davo1111 on 17/02/2010 - 17:31

    If its a crap deal, just neg vote, and provide a link where its cheaper….

    • 

      Mikinoz on 17/02/2010 - 17:51

      with a suitable explanantion for the neg vote of course ;) unless you want it revoked

      Still totally against the removal of the neg vote (my 2 cents)

    • 

      SomeGuyOnOzB on 17/02/2010 - 18:21

      There are a few things going on with voting.

      Voting something up, increases it's viewing by others.
      Voting something negative, may reduce it's viewing by others.

      Voting negative, before others get a chance to see a deal, can hide a deal from the few people who would've liked to see it. (Assuming it's actually good for some people)

      ---

      There are a few issues going on here.

      1. Different people like different things. This has lead to people voting something down, because they couldn't see themselves wanting it (eg designer shirts, computer games, computers …). Personally, and I think this follows the original intentions, I'd rather see that people don't vote things down because it's "not a bargain to one person". But rather, the deal is not getting voted up, because only a few people want that deal.

      2. Size of savings. Davo111 already dealt with this

      3. Hiding. This relates to the first issue. If a deal gets negatived early on, just because someone thinks it doesn't apply to themselves, it can hide the deal from the few people who would've benefitted from it. Most people have their settings to 0 or higher. So a single early negative vote, for an inappropriate reason can ruin the chances of others getting to review the deal. One example I can think of, is a small business office service, where people could try out the meeting room facility, have a complimentary coffee etc. It got neg'd early by someone who wouldn't use that service. But small business owners might've found it quite helpful if they'd had a chance to see it.

      ---

      We've got a bunch of variables going on with each deal.

      Different people, with different needs, with different products, from different locations (and with different accessories like warranties), with different amounts of discount available.

      Some people want to see big discounts only.
      Others are happy to see every small discount and save everything they can, as they go.

      ---

      What could be ideal, is ways for people to filter what they see (maybe using categories) and for members to be able to put a bit more classification on deals, rather than just +ve or -ve. (+ve big deal, +ve smaller deal … )

      If it had support, it could be added to Scotty's list of suggestions, for whenever he can find some spare time :)

    • 

      elcheapoinoz on 17/02/2010 - 20:31

      what if it's just not a bargain but a minor discount.
      we can't expect someone to go thru all the hassle of looking for a cheaper price, specially for something obviously not a bargain

      • 

        [Deactivated] on 20/02/2010 - 21:23

        I think the other mods were giving an example like put another link. Frankly putting something, like "this isnt a bargain, I have bought it for lower etc" is fine. We are NOT trying to stop you voting negative, if we were we would just take this way. We are asking for some insight of sorts.

        Now just because you decide that it doesnt meet your personal criteria of 14.9364% (or whatever that is), frankly you need to decide if that's you imposing your personal viewpoint on the site, or if its justified. Keep in mind poor deals or ones with limited appeal usually dont get too many votes either.

        Now while I personally think that imposing your will over the site isn't right, you can do so. And stuff ME, LOL. But please do put some intelligent comment. Crap, No Deal, See above etc, add no info.

        We know someone doesn't like the deal ie crap, no deal, just from the negative vote. So for the community, give some qualification, so they can assess the negative vote under their criteria. That's fair for all including the poster.

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  [Deactivated] on 20/02/2010 - 21:15

  Yes there is advertising etc, if its obvious spam we delete it. And yes as this site becomes more popular the spam and posts increase. But not every vendor will offer 25% off a deal. Or every product. On Mac if you have a 20% off deal, many would die for that, so your arbitrary 25% doesn’t fit here.

  If we only post 25% off deals how many deals would there be posted? then people dont come to look as there isn’t any bargains here.

  As for this crap about negative votes - its the way the site is set up. That negative votes make a post disappear, so that kills a deal. AND that may be fair.

  BUT at least someone should have the courtesy to make an intelligent comment as to why they are voting that way. THAT’s why the mods delete negative votes. SO IF YOU REALLY want to vote negative you can and are welcome too. JUST put an intelligible reason.

  IF its bad then is that so hard to do???? People spend more time arguing their little “+1” or “agree” or”bad deal” comment rather than giving a little more insight which will 1. Help others here and 2. tell the poster why its not worth posting the so called Crap you think it is. Then we ALL gain.

  We introduced this rule because the internet being what it is, we just had serial negative voters who just went around negging every deal because they determined it was crap. SO because of those trolls, we and you have to live with this. And since this rule they have moved on elsewhere.

  And contribute more, encourage others by example how about finding these elusive 25% deals and posting them yourselves. If you see other posting negative votes without reason, ask them to enlighten us and the poster, that way everyone gains.