Small Inquiry about Partial Cash in Hand Job

• 

  barginsarelife on 20/11/2015 - 21:56

  +20

  Cash for a what….oh wait, nevermind

  • 

    Daniel Plainview on 20/11/2015 - 22:01

    Haha I read it the same way too! Wonder what Siggy Freud would say about that.

    My lord someone could write a hilarious reply to this seriously answering based on that way of reading it……haha please someone seize this golden comic opportunity above!

• 

  Paul Atreides on 20/11/2015 - 22:01

  Did they give you half of a $50 note?

• 

  PVA on 20/11/2015 - 22:02

  +1

  maybe give it till next pay, the payslip may have $200 extra.
  they have given you the $200 now so you dont need to wait until next pay.(or so you dont wait for ages to sort their pay out)

• 

  airzone on 20/11/2015 - 22:35

  +3

  What cash?

• 

  blitz on 20/11/2015 - 23:12

  +2

  Is this illegal? My pay slip is only stating tax for the amount before 700. The extra 200 is coming out of nowhere.

  Yeah. You're probably being shafted in other areas as well, e.g. super.

• 

  ca4cpa on 20/11/2015 - 23:13

  +1

  Its look like your employer havn't paid you "the overtime".

  Legally, if you work more than 38 hours, you will get 1.5x pay for first two hours (from 38.01 to 40.00 Hours)
  and 2x pay then after.

  By paying you cash, they reduce no of hours worked in there.

  So if you go to Fairwork Australia for claim they can proove that you only worked there for 37 hours - as shown in Payslip.

  See this : https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Working/Working-as-an-emp…

  Also, consider that you will be at the risk for accepting cash for unclaimed income.

  Good luck!!

• 

  stralya on 21/11/2015 - 00:55

  Cash is higher probably because they are effectively paying you in cash for super (9.25%) and annual leave (8% approx).

• 

  tonka on 21/11/2015 - 01:03

  +5

  You really need to just ask your employer before even thinking about reporting them. It could also easily be an error created because they have tried to help you by paying you even though you didn't get your bank details in.

  What I get is
  You didn't get your bank details in
  Your employer helped you out by paying cash.
  You are not sure of the details, haven't asked and speak of reporting them.
  Maybe there's more to the story but you are sounding a bit high maintenance to me, and so far I feel for your employer.

  • 

    try2bhelpful on 21/11/2015 - 12:45

    -1

    What I got from the story was that the employer is probably trying to avoid the scrutiny of the tax man, and superannuation man, by paying the OP in cash rather than through the proper guidelines. If you think the OP is high maintenance then I would feel sorry for anyone who worked for you.

    • 

      NosDan on 21/11/2015 - 12:52

      dont forget the boss seems to be trying to get away with paying the award penalty overtime rates.

      anyone who thinks that any of these things are just "added bonuses" is probably a scumbag employer themselves.

    • 

      tonka on 21/11/2015 - 20:14

      +1

      Except for the fact that when he asked for a payslip he got one and the only outstanding question is that the OT is not listed on the payslip which sounds like an admin problem which would have been caused by the poor pay person having to calculate his pay manually because he didn't submit his bank account.
      They've obviously tried to help him out by paying him cash.

      Really if the employer was trying to dodge the taxman it wouldn't be just on the first pay that happened to be when he didn't get his bank details in.

      As a pay specialist I've had people threaten to kill me, beat me up and in general 'get me' if I stuffed their pay. I once heard a temp that was paid through an agency bagging the crap out of my pay officers that she'd never met. I know more than one payroll officer who has ended up having a nervous breakdown because of constant harassment from this sort of paranoia.

      And yes if the Op wants to report his new employer to the tax office, without even knowing what the problem is they are high maintenance. Would you want them working for you?

      • 

        try2bhelpful on 21/11/2015 - 23:43

        I would not call any employee high maintenance that queries their pay; given the crap out there that some people have been experiencing with their employers lately. This person wants to find out where they stand legally; which is a good thing to do. If the manager is "on the up" then he shouldn't have anything to hide if this guy goes to the authorities. Yes it would be preferable if he goes back into the company first but the company could have alleviated the issue by explaining what was happening in the first place. Money in hand always reeks of under the table payments. I would've explained the situation to the person in the first place and asked if they had any issues with what was going on. I would make myself approachable. I reiterate I'm glad I don't work for you if you think employees are high maintenance for wanting to make sure they aren't breaking the law, or being ripped off.

      • 

        tonka on 22/11/2015 - 00:55

        +1

        @try2bhelpful: Agreed, an employee questioning his pay is not high maintenance.
        Reporting your employer without asking those questions is being troublesome and the ATO and Fairwork would agree with this.
        Anyone who seeks arbitration from a third party without a least first attempting a dialog is behaving improperly and wasting everyone's time. I have no problem with the seeking advice from here , or Fairwork, or ATO. But that's not what was said, the language used was report.
        And I'll ask again, would you want them as your employee knowing they would report you to the government for Tax avoidence without even querying with you to gain an understanding of what the problem was?

      • 

        try2bhelpful on 22/11/2015 - 10:38

        @tonka: I stand by my point, if the employer had made sure that the person understood what was going on then the entire issue would not have been raised. How long do you think people who worked for 7-11 would have kept their jobs if they queried what they have been paid, this went on for years? If this person worked for me I would've taken the trouble to explain it to them so they did not need to go to Fairwork or ATO. The power imbalance makes it difficult for someone to ask a question without risking their job. The Boss can always invent a reason; particularly if they are being dodgy. Now if the employer tries to fire them there is a record they talked to Fairwork or the ATO and it might not be so easy.

      • 

        NosDan on 22/11/2015 - 11:34

        -1

        @try2bhelpful:

        How long do you think people who worked for 7-11 would have kept their jobs if they queried what they have been paid

        exactly. you can count that in seconds…

        The Boss can always invent a reason; particularly if they are being dodgy.

        and if they are being dodgy with the books, which is what it sounds like in this case, then they are going to be at least as dodgy in other areas. the OP is risking not getting paid, possibly physical injury/assault if they go to the boss.

        tonka do you work in public service somewehre? you have a very "governmental" mind set that just dosnt work in the "real world"

      • 

        NosDan on 22/11/2015 - 11:39

        -1

        @tonka:

        Reporting your employer without asking those questions is being troublesome and the ATO and Fairwork would agree with this.

        link to source?

        i would think from my experiences that it would be the opposite, specially in this case. in fact part of contacting them to report ANYTHING means a long series of questions and explanations from OP before any investigation would even be considered. so your "theory" just does not hold up under any scrutiny.

        let me put it another way… if you think you see someone stealing a car do you
        1) go up to the individual and ask them for ID and the reason for there presence
        2) call the cops and have them look into the situation?

        pretty sure common sense tells you to get in contact with someone in authority, someone who knows the laws and practices better than you do and get an "expert" opinion/advice?

      • 

        tonka on 22/11/2015 - 18:52

        +1

        @nosdan: Not gonna bother with this. A mistake on a payslip is not stealing a car. Obviously if you feel you life is at risk you would exercise caution.
        And guess what, I have worked for an employer under investigation for killing their employees, have you? People still queried their pay. In fact in that scenario I think it would have been reporting to the ATO that carried the higher risk.

      • 

        tonka on 22/11/2015 - 19:06

        @try2bhelpful:

        Getting sacked for querying your pay is exactly the right reason to complain to Fairwork.

        Really if 7 Eleven employees couldn't ask a question about their pay for fear of losing their job then they are not gonna report to the ATO for the same reason. Especially seeing as most of them were quiet about it because they didn't want to risk getting in trouble with immigration (not their employer).

        The thing is here,
        I understand pay systems,
        This employer didn't need to pay this guy until he got his bank account
        They went to the trouble to do the right thing by them making up a cash pay, doesn't sound like an Ahole so far
        Maybe they made a mistake by doing so. Maybe they did a crap job explaining.
        This guy wants to shaft them in return by reporting to the ATO
        Without even tying to clarify, there is no suggestion here that his employer is not open to a question, again I would say the opposite as he was given everything he asked for so far.
        And still you didn't ask answer my question would you want him working for you.

      • 

        tonka on 22/11/2015 - 19:08

        @nosdan:

        link to source?

        From Fairwork

        Step 3: Try to resolve the issues yourself

        We encourage employees and employers to self-resolve issues in their workplace where possible.

        Often issues arise because:

        employers and employees don't know what the law is
        communication has broken down. 
        

        From the ATO

        Step 4: Request assistance from us

        If you're unable to resolve the issue yourself, ask us for help.

        Where we assist, we may help you by:

        giving information and advice to help both the employee and employer understand their workplace rights and responsibilities
        offering a range of dispute resolution processes, including mediation, to help you come to an agreement to resolve the issues. 
        

        The ATO actually offers a course explaining how you should talk to your employer first
        learn more strategies and tips about having difficult conversations at work by taking a short course at our Online learning centre external-icon.png.

      • 

        tonka on 23/11/2015 - 00:32

        @nosdan: Do i work in Public service, no never. I really don't see how expecting someone to find out what a problem is before reporting it doesn't belong in the real world.
        If you want to understand my experience.
        25+ years that includes investigating and documenting employee complaints to the ATO and Fairwork of incorrect wage, tax and super payments. I have also been through the Fairwork tribunal and had to make authentic complaints to ATO of active company wide employee tax avoidance that the ATO seems to have no real interest in. I am an expert in Payroll administration and HRIS system and know that what the OP has described is very, very typical of something that happens very very commonly when someone doesn't get their paperwork in on time but still wants to be paid.

        What are your credentials on this nosdan?

      • 

        try2bhelpful on 23/11/2015 - 07:24

        @tonka: Let me quote exactly what the OP said above.

        "Say I got paid 900 in cash. Once they start depositing into my account, I notice they only deposited 700 into it.

        They gave me the extra 200 in cash still and when I requested a pay slip it only showed the 700 after tax. as well as only showing 37 hours working instead of 45.

        I had a few questions:

        Is this illegal? My pay slip is only stating tax for the amount before 700. The extra 200 is coming out of nowhere."

        The practice continued AFTER they started depositing into his bank account. Yet you think the OP is high maintenance.

        As someone with all your experience could you please explain a rational reason, that isn't dodgy, why a company would pay the normal salary into a bank account and the overtime as cash in hand; particularly as it didn't appear in the pay slip.

      • 

        tonka on 23/11/2015 - 13:12

        @try2bhelpful:
        I'll give you several scenarios that could have caused this, doesn't mean this is what happened, there are plenty more.

        Note: The employer will have a strict deadline for bank deposited wages which could be a 24 hours B4 payment.

        Payroll clerk received banking details without much time to process, and added ordinary hours but had not enough time to calculate overtime before deadline.

        Payroll clerk made a mistake and didn't add the overtime to the banked pay

        Supervisor made a mistake and didn't advise the payroll clerk of OT

        Employee didn't make a claim for overtime / complete timecard on time.

        Supervisor advised the payroll clerk of OT late.

        All of these things are common and are also symptoms of when the process breaks down which began when the OP didn't get their stuff done on time. It takes a lot of time to prepare a cash pay for a person which was done in the first case and this would have made the job of the supervisor and payroll clerk more difficult and taken time away from preparing the second pay if it was them that made a mistake.

        As to the payslip only showing the amount banked. This is also fairly normal as the payslip is generated by the system that banks the pay and will need to be updated with the cash pay and a new payslip requested.

        It is also possible that the employer is dodgy or maybe just not sure what they are doing but much more likely that the symptoms described by the OP are caused by one of the above scenarios. Reporting to the ATO without at least asking the employer I see as a real disservice as I know how much trouble they went to to give them a cash pay when he didn't do the right thing with his bank details, which is indicative of a good employer not a bad one.

        It's possible we are also interpreting the OP's description differently, I read it as not been going on very long , and probably only on their second pay.

• 

  NosDan on 21/11/2015 - 11:47

  -2

  yes it is illegal, and by you not reporting it (to fair work, as stated above) you are leaving yourself open to legal ramifications once your employer ends up getting busted for it. you are essentially an accomplice because you are knowingly allowing them to commit a (rather hefty) bunch of crimes. fraud and tax evasion are probably not something you want on your criminal record?