Paying off Apartment Next Year at Age 33. What to do next for early retirement strategy for a simple living idealist?

TL, DR; 33 year old accountant is paying off apartment and wants to live off passive income to meditate in the hills or farm in the tropics and live off shoots and leaves living off less than $10k per year. Is he crazy? Does he need more cushion to buffer other big ticket financial items? What other things need to be considered?

Hi all,
My gratitude to the collective braintrust on bargains and all things frugal here. Been a silent watcher on this forum for a while but thought I should throw a question out there for the ozb community to get some ideas for life direction.
I have recently become a fan of early retirement extreme (http://earlyretirementextreme.com/) and "your money or your life" - Vicki Robins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicki_Robin) and have aimed to achieve financial independence as early as possible. Much of the consumeristic lifestyle doesn't appeal to me anymore and living the rat race is not my ideal way to spend my life energy.

I am currently saving 70% of my net income and due to pay off my apartment next year (at age 33). I am currently self employed and get in approx $150k per year. Burning candles at both ends but obviously with the goal that this isn't forever once financial independence is achieved. 80% savings is doable, just need to be mindful of all those impulse buys (torches and enelopes?).

Financial independence isn't hard once spending is controlled . I am a dual citizen and can live in another country(tropical paradise) rent free and arbitrage the cost of living, even if I get returns from renting out apartment in oz as my sole source of income, it is enough to get by as cost of living here is minimal. I can also work on a contractual basis as needs to be as professional bean counter. My joy in life and hobbies/interests don't cost much, meditation, permaculture gardening, and charity work. I am a vegan and love the plant based lifestyle and appreciate threading this world lightly (low maintenance).

I'm a single with no family/kids and would like to travel and go on a spiritual journey and travel. I can also abritrage whilst travelling on a shoestring, ideally would love to travel asia - myanmar (on a perpetual meditation visa)and thailand/malaysia to pratice meditation at monasteries with minimal input from passive investments ($2500 usd per annum for tickets/visa runs and travel, $3500 usd for donations for monasteries annually- but this gets covered by passive income anyways - might end up making saving money whilst travelling!).

Afterwards (enlightened? Bucketlist checklist ticked), maybe settle down and teach meditation and counsel on diet and lifestyle or become a permaculture gardener somewhere in the mountains.

There will be 'life events' - health disasters, old age. So this needs to be factored in.
The only question is how much longer to do this so that there is enough cushion to factor the cost of bigger ticket items (1)housing (apartment falling apart -strata issues?), (2)sickness (got medicare card, but no health insurance - my diet and low fat whole foods plant based lifestyle is probably my best insurance), (3) eventual demise (aged care deposit is around $500,000 Aud, but when it comes to this point can sell off apartment?).

I am thinking another $400k to be put in a share index(thanks Warren Buffett) - diversified across oz and the US and maybe another $100k cash just in case, which means another 6 years of work so I'm thinking retiring before 40 on a net worth of $1m aud? Or should I get another property (don't want to get on the debt threadmill again though, and property yields (capital gain and rental returns) are not the best)). Current apartment can be problematic in the future with the Strata at $1k, and increasing per quarter. So I'm considering selling apartment and getting rid of strata fees and getting dual income property in the blue mountains. Consider life expectancy of 85. How much is enough? What else do I need to plan? What are the gaps ? What do you think?

Comments

  • +4

    I think … you should make a TL:DR

    • Done :)

      • Ahh much easier - I couldn't imagine living like that. Do work you enjoy and make the most of it. Make as much money whilst you can, if you decide you need more after you retire and now have no means to make more you are fooked. Aiming to live on the bare minimum with no contingency is nuts.

        • Totally, living on bare minimum is nuts. We have fallbacks on medicare and pensions, but nobody wants to be called a dole bludger. So the question is how much more contingency? 500k? $1m ?

  • +1

    I think you need to book an appointment with a financial advisor.

    • Are there really people who truly are "financial advisors"? All the people I have met, who used that title, were either insurance salesmen, or only pushed investment funds that gave them kickbacks.

      I'd like to hire such a person, and just pay an hourly rate, to get true independent financial advice. Someone who would be willing to recommend investments that didn't give them any financial kickback.

      Anyone know how to sort the "true" financial advisors from the rest of the pack?

      • +1

        Most/All funds give their managers a kick back, it's their motivation to make even more money.

        FAs will tell you which funds to invest in. Yes, sometimes they get kick backs from the fund managers for getting them more customers. What you really pay a FA for is the knowledge of what areas to spread your money across, e.g. funds, property, cash etc. If you think you can spread it yourself, you might not need an adviser. There are some FAs that are proud of the fact that they have no ties to anyone and are truly independent. How true that is… who knows.

        They will usually help you with trusts, super, and other tricks to minimise your tax exposure.

    • cymon on 06/01/2016 - 15:41 new ¶
      I think you need to book an appointment with a financial advisor.

      These are the same financial advisers that haven't attained financial freedom and are still working for a living?
      No thanks, I have already bettered them.

      • Well done. I am sure the partners at the top of the chain at said FA firms are smiling along with you.

  • +1

    Donate all to me and you go for Meditation in Himalayas. All free. No Visa & No living expense.

    • Let's do a bet, I will do it if winner takes all (whoever outlives each other wins).

  • Consider life expectancy of 85.

    That's gonna be a long lonely life if you think/planning on being single for the remaining 53yrs!

    • Yes maybe, however the simple living and contemplative community are very warm and embracing. Solitude is a beautiful thing, have you read Thoreau's Walden?
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walden

      • +3

        Nope, I have a Mrs and 2 kids, and while it may be a drain on the budget I wouldn't change it for anything.

        Oh, and I really don't know how anyone 'plans' to just avoid falling in love. I find that kinda strange tbh.

        • +2

          Yes, I am a strange creature. I find the current world and society we live in much more stranger though, but that's perhaps outside the scope of this thread :) But why does have love be conditional or limited to one person and 2.5 kids. I have feelings of love; for plants, animals, friends, family, the earth etc.

        • +2

          They must be lucky to able to avoid falling in love, some like me it's non-existence. lololololol

        • -1

          @stupidiot8:
          There are a small number of folks who have simply moved to isolated life. After all, this Capitalist system, or modern slavery as Michael Moore called it, is in obvious entropy. Not something many will participate in willingly.

          Two girls living in Qld rainforest, an older lady (with shotgun) living east of Kalgoorlie WA in caravan, a few communes in SW WA and is Nimbin in NSW still going. And I'm sure many others including native australians in the bush.

          This rediculous bully driven life aint for everyone.
          May I suggest if you want to try an alternative life, set up a 4x4 and caravan, self-sustained, and plan to go away for a while (5 or 10 years), come back for a day once in a while, for suppllies, adjust banking, send ato statement, pay rego and to ring mum…

          The worst thing I've seen is artists and poets, getting married, living in a box, complying then taking their life in one case.

          Just some thoughts from an orangutan out west.

        • +2

          Yes, Capitalist society is designed to pay you just enough, for you to do the things you don't like but are just bearable so you can buy the things you don't really need (but have been conditioned to 'want') and so you can 'escape' once or a few times a year to 'relax'. 9 till 5 till 65 (or is that 67 soon?). One can still be in the world, but not be of the world; now that's ultimate freedom.

        • @stupidiot8:

          This is a dumb idea, point blank.

          Advertise around Oz for unpaid help with an isolated project, such as on the Nullarbor plains.

          Design a peace sign and stake it out, a size visible from space. Invite people to come self-sufficient with hand tools to come dig out the large peace sign trenches.

          IE. you effectively start a free community with something (worthwhile?) to do with their time. And can take 10+ years to complete.

          I hate everyone and everything or I'd do it myself. Actually I thought of this after Iraq war got bad.

  • Have family (with kids) and then review after 5 years.
    Financially it will definitely change but you will enjoy some good time with family also which is priceless.

  • +1

    Joining (and becoming?) the happiest man in the world seems to be your aim. No advice but good luck!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthieu_Ricard

    • Yes, that guy is legendary, Phd and a monk/photographer. I only have a Bsc, Graduate Diploma and Masters and aiming to turn into navel gazing hippy farmer.

  • +1

    Would you like to be a sugar daddy?

    (no homo)

    • Not really, but I am a sweet guy (I've been told).

  • +3

    Firstly, I would to say well done on setting financial goals, and actually achieving them. Most people don't even get around to setting goals. You have almost paid off your place of residence, which is probably be the largest financial burden any of us will face. Some points to consider
    1. If you find a partner and settle down. Financial situation will change, especially if you have dependants.
    2. Inflation. Things will go up in price in the future. Will your deposits/indexed funds be enough?
    3. Boredom. Doing your hobbies full time might not give you the satisfaction they did when you only did them occasionally, because they existed as a break from your routine. Are you planning to teach meditation and gardening as a part time work?
    4. I don't agree with seeking a financial advisor. They are a mixed bag, many of them will push products on you because they receive commissions.

    I'm lucky in that I enjoy my job, and it doesn't feel like a rat race. But then again, I am still chained to my mortgage.

    • Thanks Hj,
      1.Having a partner is great if values are same, kids not too concerned about.
      2. Inflation is potentially a concern, however historical 30 year returns across all major asset classes have beaten cpi. https://static.vgcontent.info/crp/intl/auw/docs/resources/in…
      I think lifestyle inflation (from increased income) is the biggest concern, but that's all in the desires and in the mind, not in the external economy.
      3.Boredom, maybe, but life would be too interesting living in a remote jungle with tigers and snakes to be bored.
      However, all major asian cities would only be 3 hours flight away for 'R&R'. No need to pay penalty rates for holidays and sundays too ;)
      4.Agreed here, the values and ideals are too different and they have a vested interested in their advice. They would suggest a nest egg too big for what I need for a lifestyle that I would find wasteful/inefficient.
      5. Great that you enjoy your work and get paid to do it. You are the lucky few :) I have spanned successful careers across IT, Accounting, Hospitality and still haven't found anything that I connect with. There is one which is counselling or sharing knowledge about meditation and diet/lifestyle, but that kind of voluntary work shouldn't be charged in my opinion as an monetary vested interested might encourage me to dilute the message.

  • What do you have to lose? If it doesn't work out then you can always rejoin the rat race.

    • On the short term yes, nothing to lose, but on the longer term, don't want to be stuck in a limbo where I'm 69 and run out of funds because of some massive impairment to my passive income producing assets. A mid way to do this is to do 6 months at a time and do contract work to renew professional registrations/workplace skills (but that would be defeating the purpose of the simple living ideal), however, it wouldn't be such a bad idea as at least it gives a taste of the real thing and I can get an idea if I want to do this on a longer/full time basis.

  • My main concern would be finding an iron clad way to maintain a regular steady income you can rely on for decades. Aim towards the capital you require to get that steady income. I'm not sure what the best investment would be, but there's got to be something out there designed for this purpose that isn't simply a term deposit.

    • From my experience, complex problems tend to be solved with simple yet elegant solutions. Term deposit or a Govt bond reinvested after a safe withdrawal rate to preserve the principal seems to be the most ironclad solution, but offers the lowest return. I am pretty risk averse anyways. Thanks for the tip.

  • You could have retired a decade ago with a mix of part time work and bludging off Centrelink for the rest mixed in with sponging off relatives for the roof over your head. You get a whole pile of subsidies and benefits with that too. As for the rest I'm not a vegan hippy so meh.

    • Yes, but with no bragging rights to say that I've done the capitalist/corporate rat race, escaped and winning.

  • +1

    You sound like you have found great solace in the peaceful world you have embraced and very happy for you.

    I agree with comments in here that a family is a wonderful thing more realised when you are older. When I was 33 I also didn't want kids, but after having them I would not swap it for the world. If you have not been around other kids when growing up chances are this can drive you to think this way. Plants and animals give you pleasure but a happy family is your best investment IMHO.

    For your financial planning I would advise a hefty chunk in diversified funds. For your lifestyle a mix of own home debt free (I would get rid of those outrageous strata fees If it were me). Consider productive land with passive income. In a downturn you can trade production. Given the global debt explosion fiat currencies are likely to hit the skids sometime ahead. The value of assets may fall as a result of deflation. To get an idea of what's possible check out Japan's historic trajectory. Precious metals in a ~30% share of non residence assets at this time is advisable. Diversify your currency exposure. You didn't say where your other tropical haven was. If in a country with a stable currency/good debt position consider hedging some of your portfolio.
    Make sure you are tax efficient and at least try to be getting income up to the minimum threshold. No point in retiring and paying a lot of your hard-won money to the ATO, but take advantage of exemptions and residency etc.

    That's my 10 cents

    • Thanks user, yes, the strata fees are outrageous. However, the rental returns is ok, enough to cover the strata and return is 7% gross and 4.3% net on ROI. However, I can foresee some bigger ticket events happening in the horizon - major capex which might call for a special levy so either I grit my teeth and bear it or realize the capital gain (47% increase in over 4 years - crazy huh). Gain is CGT free as it was purchased owner occupied.

      The flipside is obviously if I repurchase property now, the prices are just ridiculous and all the gains I made I will lose out.
      I quite like the idea of some productive land even if it is 100sqm - 200sqm, it is enough to garden for oneself for some organic produce which has positive effects on health and budget. This you can't get in an apartment.
      I will definitely hedge against the AUD against 2 other currencies.
      Diversified portfolio seems to be the common refrain here, so I'm seriously considering allocating a fair amount into a vanguard ETF (Aus & US).

  • +1

    I would check out MMM (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/) for advice - you know what income you need so save 21X that to have a safe nest egg. If property makes you nervous/annoys you then sell it - you don't sound like you need that in the back of your mind.

    I would go simple - invest in index funds (like vanguard) across multiple markets and have 1 years expenses (or more sounds like your expenses are low) in a high interest savings account.

    None of this is financial advice - just my 2c worth.

    • Hi slewis, yep, came across MMM before. Wasn't it the 25x rule (4%)?
      http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/29/how-much-do-i-need…
      Vanguard seems to be well recommended, might look into it.

      • Good point yes - 25X is considered totally safe.

        Vanguard funds seem like a good "set and forget" investment.

        As others have recommended some kind of interest bearing account with very low/no risk like an ING Direct or similar would also be a good place to park your "expenses money" as well as some sort of bonds.

        Good luck

  • What you have said really resonates with me. Well done on achieving it.

    A property is a solid investment - people will always need a place to live.
    That being said, considering the life of your investment (lets say 70 years), you really need to think about some of the longer term risks, and diversify your assets.

    What happens if something goes wrong with the property, such as a fire. What happens if after 30 years the building needs repairs - can you fund this?

    A mix of property, government bonds, and low cost ETF/s would be a better mix. You may also want to consider exchange rate risks if you plan is to live overseas but your assets are domiciled in one currency.

    • Hi Bokka, I think for every $1000 of income from the property, I plan to put aside $100 for renovations and repairs. A diversified porftfolio as you mentioned is a better way to go. With the falling AUD, it maybe a good idea to hedge some risk against weaker USD as this is the de facto travelling currency so to speak.

  • Im not really sure burma is a paradise. The cities are dirty and the nicer parts have some political issues. But you can take a small amount of money and it will go a really long way there.

    Actually you dont really need to leave oz, you can buy rural land quite cheap, set up an off grid cottage, grow your own food and use some to barter with. Wont be like living on a tropical island but from what i looked into they are over priced in comparison.

    • If you focus on the street level, there are muddy roads, dirty pavements and trash and roaming dogs. But tilt your head up, you see smiling faces and beautiful happy people, inspiring pagodas, amazing culture and way of life.
      Been toying with the idea of something alternatively semi-rural (but with a train connection max 2 hours from Sydney), open to suggestions here.

      • Adelaide and Melbourne are significantly cheaper than Sydney. Living in a small apt would leave more capital to invest

  • Do not retire with the apartment, change to a house which is easier to rent out (fully or partially) or later build a granny flat.

    Always have some work income to cover your daily expenses so you don't need to dip in to your savings or use the capital gains/rent income until you are 65. Let your investments grow and perhaps buy 1-2 other properties if the time is right.

    1 million might sound great and a lot to retire on and it might be enough for some but life may have surprises for you and you might find that more money would be better :)

    • Hi datafellows, I agree for the apartment vs house point. More money is better, but how much is enough ? Especially when needs and wants are few.

      • It is quite impossible to say how much is enough because in life anything can happen, or nothing happens :)

        That's why I said to have a part time job or any job that can cover the food and life's necessities. Im planning to work until I am 75, gradually easing the work load while getting older and hope not to dip into savings. What ever is left I will give to my kids.

        I enjoy what I do (I am self employed) and can completely control my workload. Things need to get done so at the moment I do work well over 60 hours per week :)

  • +1

    Wow,
    what a read!!!
    I am one of those who has not planned anything financially and it was interesting to even think to live a life that you are aiming for!
    I think most of us over here are chained to some form of financial, social & emotional attachments and what you are aiming is "detachment". And at the same time, you are asking us about advice on a road which none of us have traveled.
    I dont think I can provide you with any insights, apart from that 'Its your life, you live it the way you want it - take the plunge with your gut feelings". Uncertainty - Isn't that part of the so called life, which makes it more interesting to live.

    • Knowwhat, Thank you for the advice. You can definitely do it as well. I am nobody special and I didn't have any inheritance or old money to help me. My education and property was all self funded. All it takes is a questioning mind that is curious, and persistence to question the status quo for something better or different. It is your life, you create your reality.

      • -1

        Education is not self-funded. The govt pays for most of it.

        Property is not self funded. The govt pays for roads to it, other infrastructure and for police to protect it.

  • I've been watching this thread but haven't had the time to reply until now.

    I see your best options as follows:

    1. Keep apartment. Buy another rural place on an acreage, set up an eco farm and live off the land. This is my plan in life and everything I do now works towards it, much as you have achieved . I figure I need a couple of acres, set up a fruit grove, grow nuts like almonds which are easy, have massive veggie patches and live off what I grow. Tank water, solar electricity, chickens, a dam with fish and then set up a local coop to trade goods/services in your local community. Basically you're living off the grid. Rent out the apartment and hope for the best.

    1a. As above but run it as an eco-tourism thing, or for backpackers to come and work with you… in this case you need more capital for initial setup and accommodation, but it provides you additional income from like minded people with an interest in the land.

    1. Keep apartment. Rent out apartment and move somewhere smaller/cheaper. You would need to ensure that that with deductions and new rent paid etc that it was beneficial. Work for a few more years, save up even more money, invest wisely and safely and you have a very substantial backup plan. You could stay in your apartment but financially it usually makes better sense not to live in it. I have a couple of properties but don't live in any. Then you can move to Burma.

    2. Sell apartment, buy a house outright somewhere with decent rent returns to minimise outgoings on strata. Houses are generally cheaper to run than apartments. Move to Burma/overseas somewhere.

    I would recommend keeping a property somewhere… income plus capital growth makes sense. As for how much do you need? How long is a piece of string… life is a mystery and you never know what's going to happen… they say you need a million to retire these days, but if you have a property paid off providing you with passive income and minimal outgoings (hence the living off the grid, either here or overseas) then you're doing well. The best option would always be to monetise your new lifestyle, whether that's via providing ecotourism, selling something you grow or make or getting paid to do something you love (tour guide? teaching?).

    Ultimately, what's worst case scenario? You get to 70 and have no money. How does that happen? I think you'll be fine… I am jealous of where you've got to but I have no doubt you've worked hard to get there. I'm sure one day I'll get there too (but i'll probably be a bit older than you, I can't do it in the next 4 years without winning the lottery :) ). Good luck!

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