What do you think of odometer rollback vehicle?

Hi guys, I am currently looking for a used car and recently I saw a 2007 Camry Altise from a private seller. Seller claimed the car had run 140k and ask for $5000. Odometer shows the same as what seller said.
But I checked by car history and found it should be at least 240k!!
I haven't bought it yet, but thinking the price, it seems to be acceptable even for its actual mileage…
What do you think of that car and is there any problem if I bought it?
Thanks

Comments

  • +56 votes

    if in doubt, dont do it..

    • +22 votes

      If they're lying about the odometer readings, who knows what else they're hiding.

  •  

    Any service history? If so that will have odometer readings in the logbook.

    • +1 vote

      No full service history provided. Only a couple of recent general service paper and odometer reading is "0" on it. I am sure they know what happens. That's another thing I am worry about.

  • +16 votes

    Nice work on the research…should report it.

    • +1 vote

      I don't think police will care this case, but I don't want anybody else get fooled either.

      • +31 votes

        Report it to dmr, odo rollback is fraud

        • +7 votes

          Or Consumer Affairs in your state, that's a attempt to defraud you.

          If you have spent any money with these clowns I would consider civil action in order to get it back. And you never know, maybe they'll give you a great deal on another car without trying to defraud you to make you go away.

        • +3 votes

          Sorry to ask, but what is dmr?

        • +2 votes

          @Maki:
          Dept of main roads, Qld term

        • +2 votes

          @nocure: It's TMR in QLD. Dept of Transport and Main Roads. :)

  • +5 votes

    Maybe the owner replaced the engine? Just making a wild guess.

    But like the other poster said, if in doubt, dont bother.

    • +18 votes

      Replacing the engine won't impact the odometer.
      They may of replaced the instrument cluster though. Easy to pick one of them up from wreckers.
      Check the screws that hold the instrument cluster in place. They would be coated the same as the interior colour. Usually when coated screws are removed they loose some of the coating and show metal.

      • +1 vote

        To add to this, instrument clusters are very easy and cheap to change from the wreckers however when you take your car for re-registration (In NSW anyway) when you have the pink slip done the odometer reading is recorded before you can purchase greenslip. So perhaps you may be able to contact the RMS/Service NSW and see if they can forward you to the appropriate body to look at the cars odometer readings every time the cars rego was renewed.

    • +6 votes

      Or maybe he's Mr Wormwood. While you're at it OP, check the engine for sawdust and the bumpers for super-superglue.

    •  

      There's more to a car than an engine. The odometer shows how far the car has travelled as a whole.

  • +2 votes

    What do you mean "checked car history and should be xxxxxkms"? Just curious.

    • +8 votes

      Oh sorry, I mean I bought the car history report online and the last reported odometer was over 210,000kms in 2013 and seller said he bought that car in that year and drove around 20,000kms. So I guess the car is actually more than 240,000kms

      • +34 votes

        drove around 20,000kms

        Probably backwards.

        • +3 votes

          Probably backwards.

          Ferris Bueller's day off? haha

          Seriously though arrange to view the car again, print off the report about how many KMs it had at the last check and show the seller and see what they say.

          DO NOT buy the car who knows what else is wrong with it.

          I'd be alerting someone about this guy though. Just call the cops.

      • +2 votes

        I've used car history to check but it didn't list the mileage. It did say the car was fine (not written off, stolen or no finance owing). What was the exact service that you used as I'd like to use that service in future.

        ~ Kran

      • +1 vote

        There is also another thing to consider and it's that car history websites rely on people (buyers) that are interested in the car to enter the KM into the website. So lets say someone enters 320k instead of 220k KM, it will be recorded that the car has done 320k km and will scare potential buyers off even though the car maybe legit.

        • +3 votes

          Exactly what I was gussing, someone entered 210 instead of 120, plus the 20 the owner claims is done, is the current 140.

          We have 2 camry's 2007 and 2008 both done over 200k and no issues. Good car, if no dodgy business and it is mechanically good, it's a bargain.

  •  

    may the engine have been replaced?

    •  

      I have never thought about that. Does the odometer reading link to engine?

      • +14 votes

        No, it does not. Replacing the engine does not change the odometer reading. There is no link.

        •  

          read a bit more, you are correct.
          what happens if it is a write off vehicle. does the odometer start from zero?
          once saw an Audi convertible for 1/4 of its price, km was exceptional low. was going to fly interstate to pick it up. asked carefully to seller who explained the car was written off, engine was changed ie km is low.

        •  

          @eatwell365: From my understanding in Australia, if a car is officially written off it can't be registered (or insured) and therefore can't legally be driven on Australian roads. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I thought it always was.

          Most written off cars are parted out

        •  

          @Annoying Source:
          check this. It is supposed to be hard to avoid rebirthing, but possible.

        • +4 votes

          @Annoying Source: There are repairable write offs and statutory write offs. Not that it's relevant to the OP. Don't buy cars with a wound back odometer, people who are happy to do that are happy to dodge up any part of the vehicle just to flog it to an unsuspecting mug.

        •  

          @Annoying Source:

          A kiwi friend said that apparently lots of kiwi dealers snap them up, and then resell them over there since the writeoffs can't be easily investigated etc.

        •  

          @Annoying Source: In VIC there are 3 classifications of write off and not all can't be registered.

          https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/vehicle-modific...

      • +4 votes

        It depends on the on-board CPU. Cars with a digital odometer will have this recorded electronically, and replacing the engine will not reset the odometer reading.

        If the odometer is a mechanical version (with revolving dials), there is no computer system recording the mileage. The only way a mechanical odometer could be reversed would be to run the car backwards, roll it back by means of using a high-speed drill or similar, or by replacing the odometer dials altogether.

        Engine replacements do not reset odometers in either case.

        • +8 votes
        • +2 votes

          Easiest way to roll back an old style mechanical odometer was to set off down to the wreckers and buy a new dash cluster with a lower odo. Then you claim the speedo broke, and you needed a new one.

        •  

          @Euphemistic: I did that with my first car as the odometer had been stuck at 180k since I had it. Got another one with 140k on it. Car went to the wrecking yard in the end so no one got defrauded.

      •  

        read this on another forum re odometer fraud.
        the odometer and engine do not link but does not stop people tamper with it.

        Come across this interesting read car facts history report - not associated, not asking anyone to use the service.

      • +1 vote

        Changing the engine doesn't affect the odometer reading.

        If the car had had a engine replacement (legitimately) the seller could say "The car has done 200,000kms but only 10,000 on the new engine". Of course a honest seller would have a record of when the new engine went in and what the odometer said at that point.

        The reading would still be 200,000 though whether it had had 1 or 50 engine replacements.

        OP if the car has a dodgy odometer reading and no service history I'd run and take a screenshot of the ad and report it to the police.

    • +2 votes

      The odometer is to record the distance travelled by the entire car, not just the engine. If the engine is replaced the odometer reading remains the same and a note is made in the cars records as to the KM reading when the engine was changed.

    •  

      the odo doesnt change and shouldnt be changed on an engine swap.

  • +10 votes

    My advice, stay away from it.

    • +1 vote

      Exactly. There's got to be a million other camries to choose from.

      Keep searching.

  • +4 votes

    Maybe they've done a lot of reversing

    • +8 votes

      Bueller

      • +4 votes

        Bueller

        • +4 votes

          Anyone? anyone?

        •  

          Bueller

      • -3 votes

        beat me too it!!

  •  

    May i ask how you checked?

  • +1 vote

    If that guy has the means to roll back the meter just imagine the other stuff he has done.

    Its a toyota 240k I reckon someone would still paid $5000 because it isn't that old.

    • +1 vote

      The ol' packing the diff with banana trick perhaps :|

  • -1 vote

    The odometer may have needed replacing at some stage.

    The fact that he's claiming it had done 40 000 though tells you that he's trying to con you.

  • +2 votes

    Run. Run now. Run and never look back.

  • +17 votes

    Tell him you got the history report, then offer $2k or a visit from the police.

    • +9 votes

      This is a great idea - but report him anyway afterwards.

      Remember: he tried to defraud you.

  • +4 votes

    Just run. There are WAAAAAAAAAAAY too many good offers and cars in that price range. If there is an issue in one area that means there is likey to be issues in other areas as well.

    Also if this comes up later you might find yourself in trouble for buying it and not reporting it.

    In short, report him and don't take the risk. Get a different car.

  • +2 votes

    While you can never trust anything you are told when buying a car, you have clear evidence here the seller is 'economical' with the truth. There might be many other areas they have been less than honest about.
    At over 240k, the Camry should have had its timing belt replaced a second time, i think, a costly service. If it hasn't you are up for $1000+ if you get it done, or are driving a ticking bomb if you ignore it. I would buy the opposite way, an older car with low kms.

    • +2 votes

      It has a timing chain. Toyota went away from belts in the 2000's.

      •  

        I already assumed "chain" (I had a Camry for 21 years and no complaints); I concur with advice. Must check that the 200K service was done; everything points to the dealer trying to hide this (and more). It could be a decent looking vehicle but it is going to start costing as soon as he drives it away. At 200K all the major items are ready to be replaced. Sure, I sold my old Camry (over 200K) to a wrecker even though that motor was fine. It was getting ridiculous on the end how many other things were due to be replaced though, which far outweighed the write off cost of the vehicle ($1,000)! After spending over $1,000 already in that last year.

  • +2 votes

    Your instinct should have made you avoid this car upon seeing the odo had been tampered with. Sounds like your in love, big mistake.

    • +2 votes

      You are right, I am kind of in love with the car until I found the truth. May need some time to move to the next

      • +3 votes

        There's approx 80 2007 Toyota Camrys on carsales that have 140k km or less.

        •  

          Yes and check any of those he is interested in as well.

      •  

        In love with a Camry? That's just not right bro!

        Respect - they're a practical car, but love is a strong word!!!

  • +3 votes

    140,000km in 8 years? That isn't unreasonable at all. I only did like 10,000km last year.

    •  

      But not for this car. It run more than 100,000kms in the first three years

  • +1 vote

    Golden rule should be "if in doubt, then don't" buy a lemon. It applies to most of my situations when I'm faced in compromising.

    How much do you think you will spend after you bought the lemon?

  • +4 votes

    A camry is a camry after all, there's literally hundreds everywhere on gumtree and carsales… let this one go and search for another

  • +1 vote

    If you cannot validate history or something does not add up walk away and find another. I would want proof that the instrument cluster was changed and the differences in readings when it was changed. If you can't get this NO DEAL!

  •  

    Stay away from shonky sellers. You will regret it…

  • +1 vote

    If the odometer has been tampered with, what else has been?

  •  

    If proven rollback of odo meters, it's a graud to gain financial advantages. Just stay away.

  •  

    If you get a blue slip done (that most pink slip outlets do)that has to be sealed and not opened when received by the rego office. The blue slip will be put through a high level of scrutiny by them, that will determine if there is any thing wrong with the car such as vin, engine number Stat wright off etc and is legal to be driven in your state.
    If the Dealers info is on the blue slip and its shonky the authority's will come down on him like a tone of bricks.

  • +3 votes

    This issue could make it hard for you to sell down the track, I'd steer clear too

    • +2 votes

      Was about to say this, totally agree. Furthermore when selling prospective buyers might even try to report the new seller for this rollback 'incident', even though it had been bought post-rolled back. Wouldn't touch it myself.

  • +3 votes

    If they did lie about the odometer, you don't know what else they'd have lied about

  • +1 vote

    Last time I bought a car from a dealer it was advertised as a 2003. When it came to finalizing the deal I discovered it was a 2002. Unfortunately my lift had just left. The dealers explanation was,"Oh, but it was first registered in 2003."

    I would have purchased it any way, had already paid for a RACV report that didnt find any significant faults.

    Hate buying cars! Best thing is to never go alone though, do your checks and don't be in a hurry.

    • +2 votes

      Correct me if I'm wrong I thought car manufacturing date was allays one year behind the advertised year of the car. eg.. Car produced in 2015 is advertised as the new Camry 2016.

      •  

        I do not know if you are wrong or not actually. I queried as the registration transfer form given to me to sign clearly said it was 2002.

        If I was selling it I would be selling it as a 2002; when it was manufactured and what the registration papers say it is. I would think he was being misleading by saying otherwise.

        If the car was never registered it would still be a 2002.

        • +3 votes

          Typical Dealer trick. Sell a car by the rego date. Value your trade in at the manufacture date.

        •  

          @zeggie: That's what I thought. He was just lucky the date was not that important to me.

          Car was fine although I don't think it will last as long as my old Camry (21 years)!

        • +1 vote

          Make year is when it was manufactured, model year (plate year) is the target year, usually the following year. Some cars are manufactured the same year of the model, eg same "2016-look" camry manufactured in Dec 2015 and Jan 2016 are exactly the same car, but rego of the first will be 2015 and the second is 2016.

          Makes a slight difference when you only if you are selling a few years after you buy new, otherwise no difference.

          Dealer should have advertised 2002 though, or specified both.

  •  

    It's a Camry, there are heaps around, find one from a genuine seller instead of the joker with the wond back example.

  •  

    The car is worth $500 at most. Why? Because you will never be able to sell it due to the tampering.
    Only buy it if (a) everything else is fine, (b) you pay $500 at most, and (c) you intend to keep the car util it goes to the wrecking yard.

    •  

      $500 … Don't worry I'll buy it for $500. Where did you obtain this figure from?

      •  

        For reason I said above. As you cannot onsell a tampered car, it really is not worth much.

        • +1 vote

          Whos to say the OP wont find another person who loves this camry more and actually dont care if it has been tampered with

        •  

          @xcess:

          Sure, you are right of course. But given the risk it is still not worth paying more than $500 for it now.

  •  

    ask him if there is anything wrong with it. Say you are a mechanic and like to fix old cars to on sell it. This might reveal something

  •  

    tell him the report said it had done 210000km in 2013 when it was sold then. And see what they say.

    • +2 votes

      they will just BS.
      The only wise action here is walk (or better still, run) away

  • +2 votes

    I sold my 2008 vehicle not long ago with genuine 85000 kms. There are plenty of reasons for low k's, for example if the owner has multiple vehicles or if they are away from home a lot. Not every car is driven everyday or far distances.

    • +3 votes

      I sold a 2010 recently with 50,000 km. No problems with it, just wanted a different car.

  • -1 vote

    Honestly, I don't know where you find the reported 210,000km ? I hope this is not the market data of odo and price. The only thing I see on a car history report is odo tampered with: Yes or No. If the owner really want to tamper with the odo, he can do it without anyone ever find out, by simply rolling it back before every e-safety inspection.

    And if you have purchased the car history service thing for over 20 bucks, you've already been ripped off. The PPRS should only cost $4 (it won't have the odo data, but whos to say its any accurate?)

    But like everyones said so far, if you are in doubt, wait for the next one. There are plenty of used car in the market, you just gotta play the waiting game.

    Good luck!

    •  

      oh can we actually have a peek at the part where it says the odo of the car? I'm really curious, maybe its something new from car history report?

      •  

        With a quick google search I found that Revs Check lets you put in the current KMs of the car then compares them to various other sources.

        See a sample report here

        •  

          oh right, ok, so they have changed things. That part where it says Last reported KM was never there before, glad to see they made this change. Thanks mate.

        •  

          @Azn310: no worries I was curious as well.

    • +1 vote

      I am reading $36.95 for a PPRS/REVS check on revscheck.com.au. Who provides similar/same information for $4 please?