Buying a car in Victoria (Registered in WA) with seller not acquiring roadworthy before sale

Dezy on 16/03/2016 - 18:01
Last edited 16/03/2016 - 18:29

Hey good folk, looking for some advice, cheers in advance,

Background: Close friend of mine bought a van (registered in WA) from an individual who was at the time in Vic from WA. The seller did not acquire a Vic roadworthy before the sale. She went to go and get her Vic roadworthy and was told the car would never be roadworthy in Victoria and was rightly distraught.

I have been researching VicRoads and reading up forums and it appears that in Victoria it is an illegal sale seeing as though the seller did not acquire a roadworthy 30 days before the sale.

Before she takes action based on my research I am just wondering if I am correct. Does this means a Victoria roadworthy is required before sale or any state's roadworthy is applicable. (VicRoads does not state this, I would assume the roadworthy of the state of sale is required?)

In hindsight should have helped her more than just advising her on what she was looking for in the vehicle, knowing a little bit more than she does about licencing and such, but she was so interested in doing it all for herself and I didnt think much of it. Thanks GumTree seller for stressing her out of her mind about all that money going into the void:(

Thank you again!

Automotive

Comments

  • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 18:17

    half correct

    you can sell a car in 2 ways here in Vic

    1. with rego (must also have a RWC)
    2. without rego (and hence no RWC)

    see

    https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/buy-sell-or-tra…

    you can read each of the details in the 2 links

    not sure about the 30 days thing you are talking about

    • Dezy on 16/03/2016 - 18:31

      Car was sold to her with rego. Seller did not get a roadworthy before sale. I have already been on that page but cheers for link. (PS: 30 days or less from date of sale is on the wepage you linked).

      • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 18:34

        The car may have been sold with rego, but that is half the story as you are now finding out.

        Organise to have the rego cashed in, thereby making it unreg, then get it reg in Vic with a new RWC

        • Dezy on 16/03/2016 - 19:46

          The problem is the car will NEVER be roadworthy in Victoria, as of the roadworthy my friend tried to have completed.

        • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 19:54

          @Dezy:

          ? don't understand….that blanket statement doesn't make sense

        • Dezy on 16/03/2016 - 20:01

          @oscargamer: The mechanic stated that the vehicle is in such a condition where no works or servicing to the vehicle will bring it up to the standard needed to achieve roadworthy status in Victoria

        • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 20:04
          +11

          @Dezy:

          then your friend is f**ed

        • Dezy on 16/03/2016 - 20:06
          -4

          @oscargamer: Yes, except for a little thing called consumer law, which is designed to protect the consumer from this kind of situation, regardless of it malicious intent was meant or not

        • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 20:07
          +1

          @Dezy:

          yeh, good luck with that

          the onus is on the buyer to ask, not the seller to volunteer info

        • Dezy on 16/03/2016 - 20:12
          -1

          @oscargamer: that's not what VicRoads has to say. In the page on selling instructions it says "Seller provides a roadworthy" as a step in legal sales. He has not put singed onus on her to be the one to gain he roadworthy. Therefore it is still on him and an illegitimate transaction

        • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 20:13

          @Dezy:

          has she got some paperwork to say the seller will supply a RWC? or was it verbal?

        • Dezy on 16/03/2016 - 20:16
          +3

          @oscargamer:. VicRoads state that it is the sellers responsibility to get the roadworthy unless otherwise organised. She never signed anything to say she was taking that responsibility. She definelty didn't know it was a requirement and I am thinking he didn't know out of ignorance as well

        • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 20:17

          @Dezy:

          you're missing my point, what's to say the seller didn't think he was selling down this path ? https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/buy-sell-or-tra…

        • Dezy on 16/03/2016 - 20:25

          @oscargamer: true. But he was selling a registered vehicle. Therefore, it's his mistake and he is liable to own up for it. Just like you think it's my friends mistake for buying a dud. He lacked the information, she lacked the information

        • pjetson on 17/03/2016 - 09:04

          @Dezy: Does consumer law protect private transactions between individuals?

        • hahaboy on 17/03/2016 - 23:08

          @Dezy: Consumer law doesn't protect against private transactions anyways? Take it up with small claims court, but you probably don't have the greatest case because your friend opted to take the risk of buying a non-rwc car and it turning out to be a lemon afterwards.

        • No ONE on 18/03/2016 - 12:41

          @Dezy: consumer law with private sale, hahahaha nice try and good luck.

        • poboy on 18/03/2016 - 14:56

          @Dezy:

          In Australia we are big on laws and bad on enforcement. You can visit all the courts and tribunals in the land - this guy isn't giving you the money back.

  • Greihawk on 16/03/2016 - 18:43

    From what I read from your post, you should be looking at the following page as the van is not currently registered in Vic.
    https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/renew-update-or…

    • Dezy on 16/03/2016 - 20:00
      -3

      Cheers mate. This page is what she was trying to achieve. But because of the fact that the sale came from interstate she did not have a prior roadworthy to assess the vehicle on (her family did look at, wish mine had been the ones to look at it now I think of it, bit of oil in dads blood haha). The seller regardless should have had a roadworthy done as part of the sale (unless he passed the impetus onto her, in which case this still can be taken up in that he did not give full disclosure and therefore was deceptive)

      • pjetson on 17/03/2016 - 09:11
        +4

        The seller regardless should have had a roadworthy done as part of the sale

        No. You can sell a car without a roadworthy, but it basically becomes unregistered in Victoria at that point.

        The fact that it is/was registered in WA does not mean that it is registered in Victoria after it was sold in Victoria.

        he did not give full disclosure and therefore was deceptive

        It's "buyer beware" with private sales.

  • jaybmate on 16/03/2016 - 19:10
    +1

    Cars can be sold with rego, without roadworthy if both parties have agreed upon it. But the buyer then has to sort out the rwc before changing the car into their name. Yes it does not say that on the vicroads website but you can still do it.

    You said they said the can would never be roadworthy in victoria, is that referring to the WA rego, or more to do with the terrible conidition of the vehicle?

    • Dezy on 16/03/2016 - 19:56

      Referring to the condition of the vehicle. The WA rego change was meant to be a simple fix which the roadworthy check was a part of acquiring.

      VicRoads site has a line which reads "A road worthy certificate is part of a legal sale", therefore the lack of which invalidating this sale in my mind (given that I have only done a dabbling in law). The impetus is on the seller, but what if he palmed this off onto her? MOstly sure he didnt make her sign anything to this effect so the impetus is still on him. From what I understand, if he didnt state the issues with the vehicle and its real state (aka not Vic roadworthy) he is liable for inadequate disclosure and misinformation etc.

      So if the car isnt transferred into her name (which it cant be due to lack of completed roadworthy), the licence is canceled in 2 weeks, which I think will be bad for her.

      • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 20:06
        +2

        caveat emptor

        she got royally screwed and unless the seller will buy it back, she has a lump of metal with wheels on it that can't be driven on the roads

        • Dezy on 16/03/2016 - 20:09
          -2

          I almost told her "yes, Gumtree is nice for a cheap crappy bike and everything, but look on car sales". But she was after a hippy van and etc. etc.

          I reckon there is a alright chance of sorting it out. Maybe serve the dude with some papers and make him shit a brick if it was due to ignorance (he is a hippy after all) or take it to ACCC/CAV

        • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 20:11
          +5

          @Dezy:

          sorry mate, you're barking up the wrong tree

          the buyer is TOTALLY responsible for asking the questions

          the seller doesn't have to volunteer anything

          but the seller, if asked about something, must tell the truth

          what questions did she ask about the condition of the combi?

        • Dezy on 16/03/2016 - 20:14
          -5

          @oscargamer: actually, you are wrong on that. If you knowingly sold a cut and shut car someone and they died in a crash due to its structural failures you would face jail time. The seller has all the information and therefore the negation of the sale process is baits towards the seller. Consumer law protects against this. Have you ever done any basic commerce/law?!?

        • jaybmate on 16/03/2016 - 20:16

          @oscargamer: And obviously the seller didnt say that the car comes with roadworthy cert.

        • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 20:16
          +1

          @Dezy:

          neither you nor i was there when your friend spoke to the seller and agreed on the sale

          there is nothing illegal about selling a cut and shut, if it is done well

          we're going round in circles - go to the ACCC and see what they say

        • jaybmate on 16/03/2016 - 20:21

          @Dezy: Well thats why the rwc system is in place, so the onus would be on someone wualified to make a decision (mechanic). Thats in that case.

          Its not the sellers fault that the buyer didnt know you need a rwc to regisiter it. The fact its from WA, is not a factor (i dont think) in this situation.

        • Dezy on 16/03/2016 - 20:21
          -1

          @oscargamer: if a car was written of, which is a cut and shut, it is not legally allowed to be on the road. There is an entire registrar of cars and chassis numbers that have been written off to stop this kind of thing happening It is not allowed to be restored to a drivable. It is to be cubed. There is no "if it's done well". A car which is written off is NEVER allowed back on the road, cite my dads bosses W427. It has minor damage but a cracked A Pillar. Write off. Off to the wreckers. Don't want to bring in 'I know more than you' arguments, but cut and shuts are completely illegal, coming from a family who have restored bikes, cars, trailers, and have a family member working as an active mechanic at a top end German Manufacturer.

        • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 20:28
          +1

          @Dezy:

          please read No. 25
          https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/vehicl…

          there are different levels of write off

          very easy to legally make a cut and shut from two (or more) written off vehicles

        • jaybmate on 16/03/2016 - 20:31

          @Dezy: Im pretty sure you can sell cars that are written off, but it has to be disclosed that the car is written off. Is the van written off?

        • Grande Kintama on 16/03/2016 - 22:02

          @Dezy: just curious is the car your friend bought written of and put in the register as such. Then this may apply to her https://m.consumer.vic.gov.au/motor-cars/buying-a-used-car/w…. If it is not on the register why not fix it yourself you say you have restored cars previously so you should know anything can be fixed and seeing as the car made it from WA it can't be in that bad condition. Don't take a one mechanics word for it until you see it yourself. One more thing you are also overlooking is the fact the car and seller are from WA where a roadworthy is not required for the sale of a vehicle, if it was a vic registered car you may have a leg to stand on with your roadworthy sale argument.

        • lolz112 on 16/03/2016 - 23:17
          +3

          @Dezy: How about instead of belittling people from your 'superior' consumer law knowledge you get your facts right. The fact that you are mixing duty of care and Australian Consumer Law makes me think that you didn't pay any attention in your basic law/commerce studies.

          Australian Consumer Law doesn't protect against the sale of one off sales. Everyone in the thread has told you the right answer yet you're choosing to ignore it.

          https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees…

          Read exceptions to guarantees.

        • pjetson on 17/03/2016 - 09:13
          +2

          @Dezy: I think you're wrong on this - consumer law doesn't cover private sales.

        • dazweeja on 17/03/2016 - 20:27
          +1

          @Dezy:

          Just thought I'd mention that any car older than 15 years doesn't even go on the register.

      • stratbargain on 16/03/2016 - 21:02
        +1

        I had a similar issue where I was trying to sell a car without roadworthy and the buyer wanted me to leave the plates on (sell it registered) and he would sort out the roadworthy in 30 days and transfer the vehicle.

        I didn't think this was an option but rang VicRoads and they said that as long as they buyer agrees to get a roadworthy it can be sold like that. And a signed copy of the transfer papers was enough evidence if the buyer was to do anything dodgy in between now and getting it transferred. If he didn't get the roadworthy in 30 days it would just default to being unregistered.

        I asked Vicroads over and over to ensure they understood what I was saying and they were adamant that as long as both parties agree the buyer can sort out the roadworthy rather than the seller doing so.

        So take that for what you will. (and yes I understand their website suggests otherwise.)

  • altomic on 17/03/2016 - 00:49

    So, your friend bought a registered vehicle with out a roadworthy.

    she understood that the van didn't have a roadworthy certificate.

    she agreed to buy it with out a roadworthy certificate.

    and she knew that even though it was registered in another state it didn't have a roadworthy certificate.

    and then to transfer it into her name she needed a roadworthy certificate.

    and the mechanic said it would not pass the inspection to get a roadworthy certificate.

  • oscargamer on 17/03/2016 - 09:15
    +1

    Dezy

    he knows more than you do !

    neh neh neh neh neh neh

    ;o)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x__o7GHtJLw

  • Euphemistic on 17/03/2016 - 09:18

    Sometimes you just get screwed. Sounds like this is one of those times.

    Just because a car is registered, does not make it roadworthy. If it's from interstate, that's a red flag. If it does not come with roadworthy, that's a red flag.

    There are plenty of people out there that know enough about cars to purchase one without roadworthy, knowing what they will need to fix or that the car is to become a paddock basher or parts donor. Your friend sounds like someone who doesn't know enough about cars to be buying like that, and has been stung.

    There is nothing saying a car cannot be made roadworthy, it all comes down to dollars. If you are serious enough anything can be fixed. This case sounds like too many $ to be worthwhile.

  • Tcm9669 on 17/03/2016 - 09:25
    +2

    Simple. Your friend needs to move to WA and keep current rego.

    • User167511 on 17/03/2016 - 12:23
      +1

      Or register it at a WA address as long as forwarding of mail can be done. Change of ownership needs to be lodged with the WA DOT within 30 days from signing of seller. Rego needs to be not more than 3 months out from due date of registration or plates need to be returned.

    • User167511 on 17/03/2016 - 12:24

      duplicate

  • Gershom on 17/03/2016 - 09:37
    -2

    How much did she pay for a sh1t heap than can never be roadworthy?

    • [Deactivated] on 17/03/2016 - 18:28

      Not a very helpful comment.

  • DrDollar on 17/03/2016 - 20:51
    +1

    We would all love to say "here is the clause you are looking for" - But it is not that simple.

    Private sale, buyer beware.

    We all hate having those "oooohhhhh sh*t" moments but I don't think you are going to have a way out of this one.

    If it is a van and apparently "could never be roadworthy in Victoria" then it really couldn't be worth enough to bother doing anything other than trying to contact the seller and hope for mercy or simply bite the bullet and move on.

    It would have been nice to know the purchased price of the vehicle.

  • JOCKz on 18/03/2016 - 04:24
    +1

    So heres the go, you can buy cars with and without RWC. Simple. The only people that are required by law to provide a RWC are car salesman unless its sold "as-is". Look on carsales and gumtree the majority of private sales will not mention RWC included. Buying an interstate car automatically means the car is unregistered. You can not transfer rego from WA to VIC and regardless if its registered or not, you still need a RWC to finalize the transfer through Vicroads anyway.

    Unless the car was either a "repairable write-off" or "statutory write-off" and the seller did not inform you of it, you have no case. Unless one of the conditions of sale was for the seller to obtain a RWC "before" the transaction was finalized. you have no case. Live and learn.

    What did she expect though ? A old run down van thats been driven across the country by (im assuming) some backpackers. The kind that live out of their vans (no money for accommodation) and expecting a pristine car ? When the mechanic says "its un-repairable" it usually means its not worth the cost and time. Or structurally its past its days.

    For augments sake, post up what kind of vehicle it is, how much she paid and the RWC inspection papers.

  • Finde on 18/03/2016 - 10:58

    Only thing you can really do is sue the person civilly but then that can get very costly and in most cases just isn't worth it.

  • dealhunting007 on 18/03/2016 - 11:30

    Sorry to hear that. To my knowledge, buying a car with interstate registration is similar to buying from that state where you may not need RWC or anything to purchase vehicle e.g. NSW have pink slip done every year not on buy/sell. SA do not need any RWC to register a vehicle.

    WA: www.transport.wa.gov.au/licensing/buy-a-vehicle-transfer-lic…

    For any interstate transfer in VIC, you need RWC check done and also appointment booked with VICROAD for inspection of vehicle where they check VIN, engine number etc with full year registration. The exclusion of RWC applies if you interstate registration is already on your name.

    And just to be clear, RWC is a basic check which does not mean everything is ok with car. Checks like RACV inspection or third party services should be performed if you are interested in a car and going to spend your saving.

  • redvaldez on 18/03/2016 - 14:55

    Your friend is out of luck. Look at the Road Safety (Vehicles) Regulation -> http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/LTObject_Store/LTObjSt5.nsf/DDE300B8%2046EED9C7CA257616000A3571/FB1208F39F2B1295CA257782001CE282/$FILE/09-118sr004.pdf

    A 'registered vehicle' is defined in regulation 5 as a vehicle registered pursuant to Part 2 of the Road Safety Act. I would assume that the aforementioned section sets out the requirements for registering a vehicle in Victoria. You should look yourself.

    So, unless a 'registered vehicle' explicitly includes a vehicle registered interstate, it is not a 'registered vehicle' for these purposes and therefore the Seller was not required to provide a roadworthy.

  • Gaz1 on 18/03/2016 - 17:24

    Note that we don't have RWC in WA.
    We also don't need annual inspections, etc.

  • [Deactivated] on 18/03/2016 - 17:53

    Anyone buying a car with the intent to transfer registration would be mad not to require a roadworthy upon sale.

    • Gaz1 on 18/03/2016 - 18:12
      +1

      ….Except there is no such thing as a Roadworthy in W.A.

      • [Deactivated] on 18/03/2016 - 18:33

        TLDR

    • fillit on 18/03/2016 - 19:46

      There's a price for everything, if a car didn't come with a rwc and I was reasonably confident in being able to fix it and get one I wouldnt mind knocking it down a fair amount to cover the cost of rwc and my time.

  • woteva on 18/03/2016 - 22:42

    Bring it to SA. No roadworthy required here. Can drive any old bomb around. If you get pulled over, cops just defect and order it off the road.
    Once I was allowed to drive the car for 7 days after being defected to allow me to drive for repairs. Normally only get some hours to drive it home.

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