I am selling an iPad from adelaide to someone in goldcoast
They are going to transfer the funds to my account and also send me a prepaid satchel.
Any red flags to Consider here ?
I won't send the iPad Till the funds have cleared into my account
Update: person now asking for serial number and pictures. Seems to me a insurance claim maybe
Update 1: got few local offers. Sold at lunch time today. No dramas.
Hope Gold Coast guy didn't post the parcel satchel
I rarely accept paypal on gumtree - its too easy for scammers
gumtree = cash and face to face or no deal !
Ill take the risk for $50 or under
Ive had people direct deposit $100+ for things like old SNES games and car parts, i could have easily ripped them off
Beloeve it or not, most people are actually fair and decent
@MadHattaz: as i said, im an honest human…but the i doubt the cops will bother unless it involves cars or something else that is traceable.
Cops: did you actually send the package?
Scammer: yessirree, but i did not spring for tracking and therefore have no receipt. additionally, i cant even recall which street mailbox i popped it into, when it was pitch black at midnight, so unfortuneatley no witnesses either
Cops: well that sound a but suss, are you sure your not ripping this dude off.?
Scammer: unless you have proof i did not send it, kindly GTF off my property and advise the compainant to take it up with Australia Post
@MadHattaz:
Every week we see posts of "what to do, I've been scammed on gumtree." where the response is you have little chance of helkp from the cops.
They may take scams seriously, but in this case it is a legit seller with a once off sale, not a scam.
My experience too. It depends on what you're buying, and how the seller presents.
@kima: I have to LOL too. They didn't even wanted to care about a crazy driver drove around a car to run people over when the shop owner saw it and called 000 why would they care more on scammers on Gumtree? You will probably get quicker responses from ATO to investigate if the scammers pay tax for the money they scammed.
How does the scam work? (So that I know in future!!!)
I have sold something and requested a paypal payment request.
Once that got through, I shipped the goods. Isn't paypal a safer way than bank transfer?
Upon receipt they hold you to ransom with paypals buyer protection. They say its not as described or faulty or if it has no tracking it never arrived
paypal basically just rule in favour of the buyer every time unless you can provide photos, emails pr SMs dialogue Refuting the buyers fanciful claims
Basically what pointless comment said.
Another thing that apparently commonly happens is they send you a fake paypal email that looks like you received the money.
They just hope that you don't double check by logging into your account and send the item anyway.
Easy to avoid, but I guess their strategy is to do this again and again and if 1 of 100 people fall for it, you can kinda make a living off it already.
I've just sold something on Gumtree to a buyer in Melbourne. That's a 10 hour drive. I don't expect them to front up with the cash! I do however wait until the money is actually in my account because only a couple of weeks ago a guy e mailed me a false bank deposit.
My experience:
I sold an item on Gumtree and the buyer from Melbourne paid by bank transfer. I waited until the funds have completely been transferred before posting. No issues after.
I guess in this scenario, it's up to the buyer if they want to trust the seller since the risk bears with the buyer. If the seller was someone else, they could've kept the money and pretended to have sent it.
I dont see why they would not buy one closer to home - unless you are selling really cheap…and If you are selling it really cheap, surely you can get a local buyer?
Have they asked you to take insurance on it? Could be an insurance scam ,where they replace it with a brokenipad and claim $$ through AP
Make sure you actually have the funds in the account - they may be hoping that you just send it with a fake screenshot
Well what they do afterwards doesn't concern me.
Once the funds are in my account that's pretty much that right ?
Yes.
Is it really cheap though? Otherwise i reckkn its a scam and unlikely to go through
well its $150 cheaper than market and brand new sealed. well I am not gonna jump at this. Wont be doing anything until unless funds are in my account
@CozmerkIsenberg: probably legit sale then. Do bank transfer,not paypal.
Unless you live on top of Uluru, youd be able to sell it lcoally for that price in a day or two though - probably for more $
Any red flags to Consider here ?
Yeah, there are a heck of a lot of red flags for them!
Why would they take the risk of sending you money via a method they can't reverse not knowing who you are or whether you'll actually come good on sending them the goods?
Gumtree for me is cash on delivery/pick-up only.
But from your perspective, if you get the cash in your bank (and you can login to your bank and see the funds, heck even transfer them out of that account and to your savings account or something) then I can't see any risk for you. Just make sure you hold up your end of the bargain because this person is really putting a lot of trust in you as a stranger…
I thought one thing seller can get scammed from receiving funds through bank transfer is that the scammer steals bank logins then send money to the seller's account. A few months later the real owner of the account will ask the bank to recover the sent amount and the seller will need to fork it out. Seem to read it somewhere about this a while ago.
Merely having your bank account number isn't enough unless they have sophisticated software tob trace and Crack your access number and online password. Even then almost all banks require codes sent to your registered mobile number to add new payees. So it's pretty hard unless they steal your phone and then you're screwed.
Risk usually lays with the buyer..not the seller on gumtree. I've gotten some great deals off gumtree but only pay cash in person and do my due diligence to ensure everything is legit. It's really weird that this buyer is willing to send so much money in good faith. That raises warning bells for me.
I'm not saying they trying to steal your account. I'm saying that they have stolen other peoples account, then buy item from you and direct deposit money to you from the stolen account. After a few weeks, you will get a call from bank/police telling you that the money you have got was stolen, and you need to reverse the amount back. So you have given the goods, and the bank has reversed the funds.
@wildstone: I don't think you'd be the one bearing the responsibility in that case. Yes, they may ask you, but as you can prove that you're doing nothing wrong, you shouldn't have the obligation to pay back (unless it's on your own accord). The bank will just absorb the cost in all likelihood, much like the credit card fraud case if it's a genuine claim from the buyer (and not so big amount).
You don't think. lol.
I guess it'd be the same if you were in possession of stolen goods right? The police let you keep it because you're a nice guy.
Sorry you'd wish, but no that's not the case. It's just like buying a stolen good, you are required to return the good to the rightful owner, even if you honestly didn't know the good was stolen and paid real cold hard cash for it.
After you reverse the money back to the bank, your next remedy is try to restore your item back from the scammer buyer, so good luck with that…
@hanofee:
Well, you would have someone else's stolen money on your account. You will definitely have to pay it back. They won't tell the guy who's account got hacked "we found your money, but you can't have it back, because the guy who has it didn't know it was stolen, so we have to let him have it".
The fact that you sent an ipad to some dude in Queensland is unfortunate for you, and won't help you (not even if you were able to prove that you sent it, which you usually aren't).
Your bank has no obligation at all in this case.
It's not like the credit card fraud thing at all. Credit cards always come with some kind of insurance that protect you from misuse. That's why they charge merchants for credit card transaction.
Bank transfers are free and similar to cash transactions are irreversible (unless the receiver does it actively) and unprotected.
I'm surprised that despite the number of forums and warnings on Google and…everywhere, people still take the risk. Maybe the buyers just don't know and need to lose money in order to learn. No doubt those people will then make a post warning others.
just make sure it actually is a bank transfer and that they don't just deposit a cheque into your account after gaining the BSB/Acct numbers.
cleared funds is key.
Good advice
Calling the bank to confirm is wise ?
get seller to send a photo of their screen after they do the transfer…. of course wait a couple of days, check you account has 'cleared funds' and check the text on your statement (not sure what to look for, but I'm guessing random coding would more likely indicate automated payment, generic text would indicate manual methods used).
the more you get the seller to do the more confidence you can gain.
Their screen cap is worthless. It is easily faked. Happens everyday. Check your account yourself.
agree that it is easy to fake, but just suggested it is one more thing to do (as part of a series of measures) to gain extra confidence.
This 1000%.
Cheque deposits can show up as seemingly cleared funds as a credit on your online banking.. All seems well and good until many days later you get the dreaded DISHONOUR OF CHEQUE LODGED on your statement :(
You can tell if it's cleared by ringing them, or ensuring the current balance is the same as available balance.. Harder to tell if you have lots of money going in and out of your account each day (like a business account)…
Agree with this.
However this is a highly risky move on behalf of the scammer. It come under laws regarding cheque fraud, police are much more active (and the banks love to help) when following up on this type of crime. They can usually get video footage pulled of the deposit as well.
Hence why it's done occasionally. But not too common
Even if the funds are cleared in your account it does not mean it isn't a scam. A fairly common method used to money launder stolen funds is to deposit them into someone's bank account (eg. transfer to you from a hacked online banking account) and then have you send the money anonymously via Western Union or in this case by way of a brand new ipad which could be easily resold for cash. If you receive stolen money into your bank account the police/bank will require you to return it.
This!!
GF had her bank account frozen in a similar case long ago.
Can't remember the exact details but they got hold of her bank account number somehow and transferred about $2000 into it. Next thing she knows is that her account has been frozen. Called up the bank and they transferred the call straightaway to the cops. They figured out she's been scammed after a few minutes of questioning. She had to open up a new bank account and they transferred the money into it (what she had originally in the account).
Insist on using registered post. That way, there is accountability on both ends for the sending and receipt of the parcel.
Took a $1000 deposit into my bank for a heavy vehicle trailer, me being in Brisbane and the purchaser in Cairns. A week later he drove down, paid the other $3000 and was on his merry way. When I asked him what he would do if I kept the money, he said call the police. LOL.
You can usually work out if someones suss or not. Google their phone number, ask for their ebay account so you can check their feedback etc…
This is a good example of something the cops would bother to follow up.
A triple figure sum, a registered vehicle, and personal details exchanged (name and address supplied so potential charges of false details/fraud)
The cops would never bother to follow up a missing iPad worth only a few hundred
Yeah fair enough. My knowledge was based on a friends nasty experience where he paid $1000 for motorbike parts and got ripped, along with heaps of other people the guy scammed $60,000 in dodgey sales. He went to jail and my friend got his money back.
the only thing that concerns me is the comment above about fraudulently sent bank money being able to be recalled by a bank?
I would have thought if someone hacked your account, sent me $400 as payment, it was 'tough luck'? In that case wouldn't sellers be forced to lose their money if the cash they were paid with was stolen? Same when tables are reversed, if a sold item was stolen, how would you know and you've paid with your money already? Would it still get confiscated?
As for paypal, i like to use it to buy things but is it safe to use paypal on peer to peer transactions? My main worry is how powerful is the 'dispute funds' button? As i assume that's the main concern if it comes down to being scammed via paypal?
Yeah I've got the same questions about PayPal. Surely PayPal would contact the seller before issuing a refund??
yeah, that's my worry - it seems like the disputed item's value is credited/charged back first: questions asked later.
If they are sending you a prepaid satchel to use I would ask them to send cash in $20 notes with the satchel.
Never send cash in the mail
I bought something from gumtree a few weeks ago, i asked for cod or paypal. Turns out the guy owns a shop and i had his full details so wasnt overly concerned and just paypal the money.
anything less and i wouldnt have bothered.
i sent a person in gold coast an ipod after they deposit cash into my account and i live in brisbane
i was surprised by their confidence to do cash deposit.
there are still some people who trust other humanbeings
I sold alot of stuff on ebay and gumtree the past years. Having dismantled and parted out a number of motorbikes, the opportunity to travel and pay cash for a part isn't available for people and I was selling them considerably cheaper than any wrecker. They were cheaper again on Gumtree as I could cut the seller fees. Would have sent over $5,000 in parts to each and every state of Australia through Gumtree/Bank Deposit sales… one item I was even uncertain of it's working condition so I sent it to the guy with no funds received, told him to fit and test it and if it worked to pay me which he did.
I was able to offer buyers on gumtree confidence by pointing them to my ebay account where they could check my feedback and see all the parts listed. Obviously offer an honest condition of the part etc. Yes people could just point them to someone elses ebay account and begin the scam process but that was my experience, come to think of it, next time I would put in a note saying the items were advertised on Gumtree or something with a unique verification number to help people feel more confident.
Damn shame to hear there are so many scammers out there, guess that's why it's nicknamed "ScumTree".
The scammers out there are in the overwhelming minority - its just that the few give the many a bad name.
If the $ amounts are relatively small and the person at the other end has had a gumtree account for a few years, you can be almost certaint they wont do the dirty on you - its just not worth it.
Who in their right mind is going to risk police attention so they can pocket a cool $100?
What would you have done if the guy took the part and never paid you?
This was a few years ago before the introduction of Paypal and where bank deposit was the main option for eBay. A friend of mine sold a few things on there, and received money in her account. Sent the items and all was great.
Then a few weeks later she started to notice money getting direct debited from her account to, ironically, pay off someone else's eBay seller fees :/
Serial numbers of mac products help to look up whether it has any warranty remaining + spec look up.
Pics - well depends what pics they are. I would definitely want to see the item new and sealed before buying.
I have sold some things interstate using direct deposit. No problems so far. Just made sure the money cleared first
All the bank transfers I've had have the name of the account holder appear in the description.
If you can get the buyer to send a photo of their driver's licence that shows their address and it matches up, then it's unlikely to be a hacked bank account.
Them sending a satchel to you to use is a bit strange though.. why wouldn't he just transfer a bit more $$ and ask you to send it by Express Parcel or something?
Check that the address on the stachel matches up to the address on the driver's licence otherwise… red flags!
If you use Registered Post, at least someone with that ID will need to sign for it during delivery.
Unless it's cash in hand, there's no such thing as 100% certainty that you won't get scammed. So it's up to you to minimise the risk as much as you can.
Bank deposits should be safe enough for sellers, I would never do it as a buyer, even if I'm buying from a reputable store.
If you're worried, you could set up a new bank account with little to no money with your existing bank just for these types of transactions.
If I were buying an ipad second hand, I would be asking for registered post, paypal and serial numbers etc as well. I want to clarify that I'm getting what I'm buying.
Today I learnt there are honest and trustworthy people on Gumtree.
I sold an item for over $1000, the buyer is a cop because ING deposit came up with police credit union.. That scared the shit out of me! I was super worried the item wouldn't arrive or something would happen so i just added insurance just to be sure… All good in the end.
….I think anyone can apply for a bank account/Credit card/loan with the Police credit union…. the money isn't coming out of the Polices budget/taxes… (correct me if Im wrong though)
You're correct, it's like any other FI. Members are mostly just other people, not police officers…
Who do you call if the police bank is being robbed?
Why don't you just use Auspost's Cash-on-delivery? Tried sold things twice with it on Gumtree twice with no problems. You send it, when they pick it up, they pay the amount and sign it off @ the Auspost outlet and the money is transferred to you:
Never knew they had this service.
I think they need to do better advertising for this as it can solve many problems especially on gumtree.
And if the buyer changes their mind and doesn't bother picking it up? Do you get charged for postage both ways to have it returned?
edit: was supposed to be a reply to the auspost COD comment.
From the table on that link:
Cash on Delivery service
Option 1: Collection of Cash On Delivery fee and postage costs from receiver
$9 COD fee + cost of postage
Option 2: Collection of Cash On Delivery fee and postage costs and payment for the item from receiver
$12.70 COD fee + cost of postage + payment for the item
Statement of delivery
$2.70
Returns
$18.40 plus cost of phone calls, electronic messages or return postage
Extra cover fee (per $100 or part thereof up to $5,000)
$1.50
You do but the ones who agree should be genuine, when i sold my items (car parts). The ones who aren't serious just go quiet when you say you want COD + I'd imagine scammers definitely don't want to walk into a auspost outlet in person because you need to verify id.
why are there any red flags on your behalf? The ball is in your court. You are getting funds and a prepaid satchel meanign it's costing you nothing to send. He's asking for Serial so he can check if it's stolen or not.
Sounds like you have an innocent buyer who has jumped on a great deal going above and beyond to make your life easier…Red flag should be on their end.
Listen here! The safest Gumtree interstate transaction is by…AUSTRALIA POST MONEY ORDER. If buyer doesn't want to do this, buyer is a SCAMMER!
I've sold before to someone in the same state. I guess I seemed like a genuine seller, he called me up etc just to make sure I didn't sound dodge, we spoke about cameras a bit etc. In fact, he had to put more effort in to prove that he was really doing what he was, ie, he wanted to buy the camera because he was a in the photography industry etc - he sent me links to personal web sites, etc.
After I sent the camera to him, not a word back though. No issues with payment, received in my bank account, cleared etc.
You sure about that. I thought if you bought it with good faith, and nothing indicated it was stolen, then you can keep the item.
Say you go to local jewellery, buy a second hand necklace that is about 80% of other / similar items.You could have known it was stolen.
If you buy the same necklace from a guy selling stuff in a car park, and you pay $50. You could have known it was stolen. You have to return it.
If you buy something that was stolen then it cannot become yours as the seller did not have proper title to it.
It either still belongs to the original owner, or the insurance company if they have been paid out.
if you're receiving the fund i dont see any danger. Just make sure you receive the money before sending the iPad as bank transfer receipt can be fake.
What I don't understand is why would anyone would still use bank transfer for gumtree transaction.