Blackmail from NAB Mortgage Officer

varunynr on 20/05/2016 - 12:10

HI All,

Now a classic example of predatory banking. I took a NAB mortgage 3 months ago (All variable loan rate) and have now decided to refinance with CBA (which got approved and I have settlement due next week). This guy (from NAB who got my home loan moving) calls me a week ago and says to reconsider the move (even promised to almost match the interest rates) and threatens to take away 250 k velocity FF points (that have now been credited to my VFF account) that I was given as part of getting a mortgage with NAB that time.

DO you think NAB can take away my VFF points for moving away from them -> I think not as I could not find it in the fine print.

Is that normal for bankers to behave that way. As he called me again and threatened me to reconsider my decision. Even ended up asking "Mate, why did you take your loan from NAB ? You know the points would be taken away dont you ? " I had a silent smile on my face and politely refused to succumb to his pressure.

I am sure some of you would have been in similar situations ? Would be interesting to know the views of audience here ?

Regards

Financial

Related Stores

National Australia Bank Group (NAB)
National Australia Bank Group (NAB)

Comments

  • pantsparty on 20/05/2016 - 12:19
    +3

    What were the terms and conditions of the Velocity points deal? Do they state you must maintain the mortgage for any set period?

    • varunynr on 20/05/2016 - 12:56

      Doesn't talk about it ,

      TERMS AND CONDITIONS

      This offer is limited to a maximum of 250,000 Velocity Frequent Flyer Points per customer and per Home Loan application. This means, if there is more than one applicant and one applicant receives the 250,000 Velocity Frequent Flyer bonus Points, all applicants are deemed to have received the bonus Points. The offer is not available in conjunction with any other offer including NAB Credit Card bonus Velocity Points offers or NAB/ NAB Broker cash back offers.

      If you apply for a NAB Velocity Credit Card in connection with your application for the Home Loans 250,000 Velocity Frequent Flyer Points offer, you may be awarded your Velocity Frequent Flyer Points in two stages. This will occur if you meet the eligibility criteria for a NAB Velocity Credit Card Points offer sooner than the date of drawdown of your home loan, as this will trigger the number of points attributable to the credit card offer to be credited to your Velocity Frequent Flyer account within 3 months of meeting the card offer eligibility criteria. The balance, up to a maximum total of 250,000 Velocity Frequent Flyer Points, will be awarded within 90 days of your Home Loan drawdown.

      Terms, conditions, fees, charges and eligibility criteria apply for all NAB and NAB Broker products (available on request).

      [1] Excludes businesses, trusts and other non-natural persons. Where the new lending is for construction purposes, you must drawdown $250,000 or more by 30 November 2016. (The establishment of a limit of $250,000 or more does not satisfy this condition.) A change to an existing NAB Home Loan which results in a new account number does not qualify as new home lending.

      [2] Everyday purchases exclude transactions that are wholly or partly for gambling or gaming purchases.

      [3] If you’re a joint Home Loan applicant, Points will be issued to the primary cardholder or, where there are multiple primary cardholders, the Points will be awarded to the primary (first named) Home Loan applicant.

      Correct as at 1 May 2016.

      • resisting the urge on 20/05/2016 - 15:50

        "Is that normal for bankers to behave that way"

        All Banks have mandatory programs that teach new employees all about basic obligations and responsibilities, showing staff understanding of appropriate business practice and the law is questionable. To make this worse, they are paid commission, so it is in their interest to put this before all logical thought, if there is any at all.

        How much does did it cost to apply?
        Less than $1000? This could be a good past-time for anyone on OzB who can get approved on a new loan.

        IANAL but the only way they can justify pulling back the VP credit is to claim that their "Terms, conditions, fees, charges and eligibility criteria apply for all NAB and NAB Broker products (available on request)" contain a clause that specifically covers this situation. If these do, but they were not provided, it is not part of the loan.

        But to pull it back, they won't need justification. They will if they can just do it leaving you no option but to take them to Court for your loss.

        In that case, should the provided T's & Cs not cover your situation, and/or the Bank's lawyer's case is hard to win, you may be able to make more out of the settlement because brand impact is all they will actually care about.

        As others have said, transfer the points out fast before they disappear!

        If they already retracted the points, ask your solicitor what they think.

  • holdenmg on 20/05/2016 - 12:22
    +3

    If you can port your points out, I'd do it.

    That said, it probably wrecks his bonus for loan sign-up's.

  • altomic on 20/05/2016 - 12:22

    Is that normal for bankers to behave that way?

    typo corrected - Is that normal for wayne kerrs to behave that way?

  • Nutrino on 20/05/2016 - 12:47
    +5

    You must be good at wasting peoples time, nab and ozbargain.

  • rinbond on 20/05/2016 - 12:51
    +1

    If it was a mobile banker(one that comes to your house etc)they are broker to the bank and earn commissions on each loan that gets approved,if a customer moves away from the bank within 12months they then have to return the commission they earnt.I have a friend who explained how it all works.
    Hope that helps

    • varunynr on 20/05/2016 - 12:57

      Thanks rinbond. It was a branch officer.

  • whooah1979 on 20/05/2016 - 12:59
    +34

    Blackmail from NAB Mortgage Officer

    The title is misleading. I was expecting that the nab rep did something illegal. It looks more like the rep was the one that got scammed.

    • ykwon10 on 20/05/2016 - 13:06

      LOL! Your comment gave me a good laugh.. thumbs up for you!

    • retiredfeline on 20/05/2016 - 13:08

      s/from/of/

    • holdenmg on 20/05/2016 - 13:28

      Honestly, if people are going to scam NAB/Velocity why don't they just go to the $2 shop and buy a Balaclava* before heading to the Bank like everyone else? lol

      *Earn points on your Balaclava purchase with NAB Cards the OzB way, just don't return the item later, otherwise they get DNA and stuff (and they might deduct points on that refund too).

  • ykwon10 on 20/05/2016 - 13:09
    +2

    OP, maybe you should answer the officer's question "Mate, why did you take your loan from NAB ?". Tell him "Coz I want that 250k points!". If its not stated anywhere in the terms and conditions, you should be able to keep the points.

  • chu-oh on 20/05/2016 - 13:43
    +6

    Not that I think his behaviour is at all acceptable but have you considered just sticking with them if they're matching what CBA are offering? Personally I would just to avoid the stress/drama.

    • StewBalls on 20/05/2016 - 15:25
      +3

      Personally I would just to avoid the fees/costs

      Fixed ;)

  • bulletproof on 20/05/2016 - 13:48
    +4

    you cheated an business and an employee of their time, effort, money and possibly affected someone's performane in their job - what do you expect? i would give it at least 1 year move especially after the poor guy who only works for the organisation has went out their way to assist you.

    • npc on 20/05/2016 - 14:21
      +3

      You are wrong. He didn't cheat. Unless your understanding of cheating is unconventional.

  • tsunamisurfer on 20/05/2016 - 14:58
    +8

    Only in a First World does taking away my FF points equate to Blackmail.

  • tomleonhart on 20/05/2016 - 15:07
    +2

    Can anyone put down 250k velocity point in dollar value ?

    • StewBalls on 20/05/2016 - 15:23

      Yeah, I was wondering the same…real dollars too, not Dr Who money or bitcoins! ;)

    • resisting the urge on 20/05/2016 - 15:28
      +3

      250k velocity points = more than $2,000.

      To quote McNulty, "that's all the PC we need"*

      Obviously this is a case of blackmail, driven top-down. But don't worry, the Responsible Executive will get a bonus whether they take the points back or not, or whether the employee gets kicked/no commission/poor performance score.

      • From "The Wire" dictionary: PC: Probable Cause
      • tomleonhart on 20/05/2016 - 15:56
        +1

        If that's the case he's still ahead.

        Assume:

        $350 - Discharge fee from original lender
        $266 - Transfer fee for gov
        $200 - Settlment fee
        $395 - annual fee with Nab

        -> $2000 - ($350 + $266 + $200 + $395) = $789 profit by switching to NAB.

        Now that OP is moving to CBA for $1500
        $350 - Discharge from NAB
        $266 - Transfer fee for gov
        $200 - Settment fee
        $395 - annual fee with CBA

        -> $1500 - ($350 + $266 + $200 + $395) = $289 profit by switching to CBA

        Rinse and repeat :D

        • [Deactivated] on 30/06/2016 - 14:09

          I thought the fees were much higher than you describe.

          Isn't there supposed to be a % fee associated with breaking the mortgage. It's not just $200.

          Have there been recent changes to the mortgage market?

        • tomleonhart on 30/06/2016 - 14:13

          @ozboom: I wouldn't say they're recent.

          there is no % fee associated with leaving the lender anymore.

          There is a fee involved if you fixed your mortgage and want to break it.

        • resisting the urge on 20/07/2016 - 12:25

          $1079 each cycle, not bad at all.

          Not to mention $512 for the State- clearly you need to do your civil duty and play hopscotch. There are few other ways the Bank's can be made to pay their way.

          Now that is all fine, however each Bank is unlikely to approve it more than once, so you may end up having to find another lender anyhow.

      • tassieeagle on 20/05/2016 - 16:02
        +1

        Anyone who quotes the wire here gets an automatic +1 from me

      • virhlpool on 17/07/2016 - 23:00

        Sorry for being naive in this area, but where can you use VFF points? Do you need to have Velocity card to gain these?

    • tuvz on 29/06/2016 - 19:08

      I normally pay $2500 for that amount

  • fruit on 20/05/2016 - 15:18
    +5

    Hey OP just incase they try change the terms on you, remember to make a copy on https://archive.is and/or use https://archive.org 's wayback machine

    • varunynr on 20/05/2016 - 15:39

      Thanks Fruit. Noted.

  • welfoj on 21/05/2016 - 09:20
    +1

    Just move them to a relatives account, i doubt they will be able to take them back if you dont have them in your account,

    • varunynr on 21/05/2016 - 16:49
      +1

      Done. Thanks

  • wongsun on 29/06/2016 - 15:00
    +2

    Poor form from you for refinancing away from NAB after such a short amount of time, particularly as they have almost matched the CBA rates.

    The NAB officer obviously feels like you wasted his and NABs time (many hours worth). Anyone in the same situation would feel the same. Putting together a loan application, assessing and issuing the loan all take time and money. Which you have essentially wasted.

  • Skramit on 29/06/2016 - 15:11

    To clarify OP, did you sign up with NAB just to get the 250k VFF and always intended to move to another bank once you had the points?

    Also, please change the title, it's not blackmail.

  • samprofs on 29/06/2016 - 18:13

    Natural reaction, as you wasted their time and will probably impact his performance review…etc Probably went out of his way to match the CBA deal for you and obviously you switched for ~$300 (after $1500 bonus). You will also have a $395 package fee vs $10 a month with NAB.

    NAB has substantially lost $ here considering staff hours, application, establishment costs, valuation costs, FF…etc.

  • jj212 on 30/06/2016 - 09:43
    +1

    Looks like you got 1 over on the bank! Considering NAB have posted an average $2.5BN profit for the last 5 years (bar this year as they 'demerged' form their UK Operation) I'd walk away with a smile! Its always great to see people beating the banks at their own game!
    I would highly suggest you use those points though! ;)

  • [Deactivated] on 30/06/2016 - 14:01

    I think you lose more money from having to refinance the loan.

    There is no reason to signup to a mortgage to get velocity points.

    This is why I don't believe the OP has any weird motives.

    Don't succumb to the bank's tactics. The manager is probably going to lose their EOFY bonus.

  • varunynr on 30/06/2016 - 15:16
    +1

    Thankyou everyone. I think trolling is a norm here and people make judgements easily without taking into note the personal circumstances of an individual. Anyways wanted to make couple of things clear for everyone :

    1) I was looking for my first home purchase and went to NAB in first place. Had a clean credit history and hence got approved and loan settled which helped me moving into the house and all.
    2) I wasnt really looking for the points but I guess that was a welcome bonus. I would certainly use them for overseas trip (thanks jj212).
    3) CBA offer was a sweetener (3.88 fixed for 3 years and 3.95 variable presently) and did infact bring down my monthly repayments which I am very happy with.
    4) They gave 1500 cash back which more than covered the fees on both sides of banks and actually gave another 80K CBA points on their doamond CC which I got as part of package (I think I got double lucky here).
    5) At the end of the day CBA deal was much sweeter and I had to go with the better one.

    I think each one of us should look out for the best one can get from market and that in essence is what Ozbargain stands for and was the principle it was built upon. Good luck for all those who are looking for bargains. I am sure you would find one if you look hard enough.

    Regards

    • tsunamisurfer on 30/06/2016 - 17:31

      Trolling?

      No one here has a problem with you chasing the best deal, in fact it is encouraged.

      Your use of the word blackmail was the part I found hilarious.

  • charzy on 30/06/2016 - 18:20

    I'm in the middle of refinancing my loan. Had the nab mortgage refinance team call me to try to make me stay.
    He tried to use brexit to say that ING will take away my property when they exit the EU.
    I don't know what to do anymore. I'm so annoyed that my loan rate is higher than a friend's when we both got approved at the same time same rate but his loan is 100k less than mine. I was under the impression that the more you borrow the cheapest the rate. I'm expecting a phone call tomorrow and will blast him.

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