Paid no attention to parents with pram parking at shopping centres until I became a parent myself 9 months ago.
Just wondering what your interpretation is of these spots?.
I have seen: Adults with no kids, car seat,or pram park in these sports and I have also seen families park in these spots where the kids are of primary school age and beyond and no longer need to be in a pram.
The take away from this is that there are angry people in the world, and they are particularly angry when behind the anonymity curtain that is the internet. Nothing new. Try not to get too worked up about it - unfortunately it wont make them go away. I just give them a low star rating on Ozbargain so I personally know next time I encounter them, to treat what they say with a grain of very angry salt.
I do the same. Don't know why parents with kids get special treatment. It's a choice someone made and it's not like they're now some special person that deserves special consideration. Lol @ the poor mother with 4 kids who has to stress about finding a spot. I mean, why are we rewarding people for their stupidity/bad choices??? I don't go out of my way to help someone with massive amounts of debt by paying off their credit cards do I, but it's a similar issue.
Helps it's not legally enforceable so who cares…
Not really wishing you to have kids, and then having one hit by a car in a car-park, because the parents park was occupied by a d—k. But then ….
It's likely they'll be run down by another parent in a large, unnecessary, suburban 4WD - because their own parents were too stupid to utilize the child locks. Eh. More's the pity.
Is this how you start to think as a parent with kids? Because it's insane and illogical. You're putting them more at risk driving them around than anything else.. should just keep them at home in a bubble.
@PhilipJWitow:
It is all about minimizing unnecessary risks. Do I drive defensive with my kids on board: yes. But it's not that they have just road for parents.
Did I buy a car with high safety-cap rating: yes. Side Air Bags, just in case: yes. Am I near the pool when the kids go to swim: yes.
Do I let them run out on the road: no. Do I take my small one by the hand when walking to school, close to busy roads: yes.
Do I park in a parent parking spot, close to the entry to the shopping mall, when no idiot, who does not have kids, has not parked in it? yes.
Not insane nor illogical.
I put more then 10 years of work in one, and more then 6 in the other one. That is a lot of work, which I try to keep safe.
Of course, a lot of people are just inconsiderate and entitled. Wouldn't dare help another human being who made the awful decision to start a family. Nope, rather, they'd prefer to be spiteful and make sure things are that little bit harder for everyone else. Karma has a way of dealing with this stuff and my parents brought me up with better morals than that. This is why society is as ugly as it is now. My memories of growing up are where even language and culture barriers didn't stop neighbours and friends helping each other out.
Of course, a lot of people are just inconsiderate and entitled
yep, those mothers think they own the world
You have a mother too, right? Does she not deserve your respect?
Just noticed all these hidden responses and your neg vote. Wow! I see now why you have been grumpy. Or, is there a record for neg votes in here? Anybody?
Did you know that people with disabilities stickers have priority of parents with prams in these parks. So essentially you are parking in a disabled spot
Did you know that people with disabilities stickers have priority of parents with prams in these parks. So essentially you are parking in a disabled spot
where did you get this information from? could you please provide a link to the road rules to support your post?
They don't have "priority" at all. They are allowed to use those spots to park in though. I think effectively what you are trying to say is that people with the disability pass can park in any legal car parking spot.
Really? sheesh. I'm guessing that you are the same kind of person who would refuse to give up your seat on the train to the elderly or pregnant because you don't legally have to?
Your parents must've been the crap ones that you whinge about yourself because they obviously have failed to teach you decent manners.
Fine, you can disagree with the availability of parent parking all you like but the fact is that it exists and you should respect that shopping centres have chosen of their own free will to provide these spaces. If you can't accept that then you shouldn't shop there.
What other signs do you ignore because you think you know better? "No food or drink in this store"? "Please don't use your mobile while standing in the checkout"? Do you agree that businesses shouldn't be able to have rules/conditions of entry if they aren't legally enforceable?
Maybe I should just talk loudly on my phone during a movie in the cinema, because you know, they can't legally make me stop right?
Thanks, Im going to do the same from now on. Agree with you
Pisses me off when a car parks there that doesn't have a car seat. No kids means find another park! The bays are sometimes wider so we can open the doors to get our babies out. Closer to the shopping centre enterance is safer with strollers as sometimes the drivers fail to see the strollers when reversing.
10 bucks on gumtree fixes that, ive long considered throwing a cheap baby seat in the back of the work crapbox just so i dont have to deal with the entitled generation whinging when i park in a parents with prams parking spot.
Either that or a blow up doll in the back seat, used them to great effect on T2-T3 transit lanes.
Lol … the beauty of that vision! I'd love to know what you dressed your "doll" in. You are giving them all ideas!
Well done; We need more funsters like you in here.
Me thinks he had a doll with its mouth open ready to go.
Bit ironic that you complain about "the entitled generation" while taking a parking spot you're not entitled to.
They shouldnt be there period, there should be 4 types of parking types nationwide, Regular parking, disabled parking, loading zone and taxi rank/zone thats it.
It seems that these days you are entitled to half the world the moment you spit a baby out of your cooch, this includes parking clearly.
I generally dont go near the entitled generations parking, but when the local center wipes out 80% of the available parking due to construction works every space becomes free game, i dont have the time to drive around for 30min looking for spaces.
I use these as much as possible. I have 3 kids under 5 and the extra space is very useful, especially when they open the doors wide and I don't have to stress about them hitting the car next to them. Was using a capsule until recently and again, the extra space is handy.
I rarely use the pram and don't think these spots should be for pram only, I read the sign as 'parents with young kids'.
If I ever see cars parked in these spots without child seats I do feel like using my shopping trolley as a bumper car, luckily I have so far been able to rein these urges
I do agree with your comments for 3 children under 5 with no pram using these spots; should be for all children. However your assumption rearding lack of child seats is a bit hmmm. The parents may have removed the baby's capsule to go shopping with. An older child with crutches or a wheel chair may not be able to utilise a child seat either. Often the (fewer) disabled bays are taken too; got to watch those assumptions (and my typos).
Here comes that "entitlement" thing that we all talk about…..
You feel the urge to trolley smash a car because it is without child seats?? Hopefully you don't feel the same way if a car has no wheelchair while parked in the disabled bay!
I have bought up 3 kids and without the need for a "special" parking zone. The bloody walk did them good from the car to the shops, I am sick of the whiny tattooed "busy young mums" bullyng their way through the mall carpark with their oversized AWD prams.
Not a parent myself but I hate it when I see non-parents park in those spots. Yes, while parents have "selfishly" chosen to spawn and there are no road rules against non-parents parking in those spots, we have also being taught not to be assholes to each other.
I have never parked in those pram spots, no matter how long I have been waiting. I treat others the way I would like to be treated.
we have also being taught not to be assholes to each other.
who is "we"? I have yet to see anyone in Sydney act like that in my life.
That's not a bad thing, makes it all the better when you encounter someone that does ;)
@kima "Sydney" …. There's your problem right there :)
My kids are big enough to do their own seat belts now, but I have used these spots when they were younger.
My take is that it is courteous to leave these for struggling parents, but if the car park is otherwise full, all bets are off, sorry.
Courteous, yes, but not enforced by any law. Hence, I'll use my liberty to park there regardless of the car park's occupancy rate.
Spots for people with prams, they are larger / wider spots. Whilst not enforcible, it's better to leave these free for smaller kids during business hours
Spots for people with prams, they are larger / wider spots. Whilst not enforcible, it's better to leave these free for smaller kids outside of business hours
i've been to two costco. both of them have the same size parking spots for everyone, with the exception of disabled parking spots that may be a bit wider or are separated by marked yellow spaces.
http://tinyurl.com/zyqwtts
Not too sure, only been to shopping ones. My guess it was a shopping centre initiative then others followed the trend and decided to do the same to existing parking close to entrances/exits
Seniors/Parents with Prams spots are not enforceable. Disabled spots are however.
Personally I prefer to park a bit further away and get a parking spot straight away. Plus less thoroughfare going past your car/likelihood of being dinged or scratched.
Our local shopping centre there seems to be some desperation to get the parking spot closest to the entrance. I park right up the back, takes 30 seconds of walking to get to the entrance and most of the time the suckers who were in front of me coming into the car park are still looking for a spot as close as humanly possible. While i'm getting on with what I have to do.
Same here - i always go for a spot closest the the exit.
This is the problem with society today. Full of selfish hipsters. It's about me me me. Respect has gone. These people won't even get up for an elderly person on public transport. Shame shame.I tech my kids to respect other people. This seems to be a dying art.
Ok grandpa, no more Today Tonight for you.
But grandpa is indeed very correct. Wish we had more grandpas around for the kids.
no worries son. I will swing by the cardboard box you live in and say hi hipster.
Why would respect be due to those who have babies? I get up for the elderly because they had no choice but to get old (other than death). But I really couldn't give a toss about anyone with kids. I don't respect them or think they're due any privileges. If anything the selfish me me me crap is coming from the parents. Oh I've had a baby im so important…
Hey Fat. Without kids the world would end.I must be praised and respected for keeping humanity alive. You're welcome. I also create taxpayers to fix your roads.
Hey harry, I think you'll find it's the other way around.
Who do you think will be (paid or unpaid) looking after your sorry self and tending to the work that needs to be done when you're too old to do it for yourself? Ungrateful.
Robots obviously
Giving respect for being elder to someone is not logical. Respect is something that is earned and noone should be entitled to it automatically or when it is asked. You won't respect a bad person even if he is older to you. Respecting others' needs is different however and it should be regardless of that persons' age. If one sees someone struggling with something it is respectful to offer help to that person. I won't offer my seat to a fit elder automatically, but I would certainly offer if I see someone struggling or if someone asks for it nicely incase I am not aware of that persons' needs perhaps incase that person has had a harder day than I had.
Today some (most definitely not all) young people have obviously not been advised it's polite to offer their seats to others who may be struggling. I wouldn't automatically think it's their fault though if they don't. I believe most would if asked politely though. Respect is not an age related thing to me.
On a peak hour train carriage, full of business people, I have had a middle-aged suited man rush to take a seat I was obviously heading for with a grin on his face (and I was near collapse). Perhaps I look more able than I am at times.
Couldn't agree with this more !
Older people whinge about how young people should give them a seat on public transport but so many times i've seen the elderly hot seats to themselves by putting their bag on the seat, their weekly grocery shopping or sitting in the centre of the seat. Public transport is there to share, if you want to sit by yourself go drive.
Give up your seat for someone who needs it more regardless of age, I'm happy to give up my seat for someone who's disabled, pregnant or clearly needs it more but i'm not going to stand and have people push past me as they get on, off the bus just because you're old. My morning bus ride watching top gear is my time before work which I can destress and relax and I won't give it up just because you feel entitled since you created some rule about being old deserves you a seat.
There are different kinds of respect and you're confusing them.
Respecting someone's opinion or position on something is indeed something that one earns.
Respecting that same person's circumstances is something one learns.
When you get old bits of you tend to be in constant pain and things that use to be easy become hard or impossible for most. That is why you give up your seat for an older person - because you have the opportunity to sacrifice very little but make their life a lot better. Your ankles/knees/hips won't keep you awake at night with pain if you stand on a rocking train for 20 minutes. Their's will. (There are exceptions. I have a boss over 60 that still travels to do triathlons. He's a rare exception for the most part.)
So it comes down the the factor "who needs it more". If I feel someone needs it and can't stand then that seat should be offered. On the contrary, if you offer it to a fit looking older person his pride might get hurt. Lastly, a fit older person should be courteous to offer to someone who needs it more than him, i.e a disabled person or a struggling pregnant woman, really tired and sick young person etc. hence age should not be a factor of determination for respect or offering a seat.
In case you haven't heard, as you get older your body falls apart. Don't pretend for one second that you don't understand that the older a person is the more likely to suffer aches and pains, and have limited movement or be more vulnerable to a knock or fall. Admit that you want to be selfish and not give up your seat. Don't pretend you care a jot for the old person's "pride".
I have an older brother of 60 who is an accomplished ultra-marathon runner in Europe. I also was a long distance runner in my youth but never regained the interest. I think I may be the bit of an exception being much younger than him, but having to take nerve pain medications in order to be able to walk these days. No longer able to take anti-inflammatories as they have damaged my kidneys too much. Have tried a few back surgeries too. Thing is I look (very much) younger than him (only one in my family to not be affected by greying hair) and I do try to keep up with my physio and exercising, but I do not appear to be suffering to others who are not aware. I have had to stand for almost an hour on a train (suffered for days as a result). So far I have not been up to asking for another's seat just as yet though. Just never again on one of those b trains! Sitting down alone would not have alleviated all my pain, but perhaps some of it at least.
@syousef: Let's not get into accusations, anyone can make baseless assumptions. Lets stick to the point. I have focused on need aspect. If the older persons' needs demands it then they shall get it, so would a younger person in a similar situation. With your logic you would dismiss many other peoples' needs. I have never excluded any older person in any of my statement, I have included more people. You have been trying to twist it or do not understand what I have been saying. I have no qualms giving my seat to anyone who needs it or asks for it nicely as I am lucky to be fit to stand for hours without feeling any effect on my body. If that makes a difference to someone it does not cost me anything and I would do it in an instant.
@JediJan I have a friend with EDS and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome who looks fit but is in constant pain and needs meds for functioning. Made me realise that looks can be deceptive.
I'm not trying to twist anything. It is you twisting my words. If you don't understand that as your body ages you will be in more pain I can't help you. Your education is way too lacking for me to fix in a short exchange on Ozbargain. Ignoring or denying that that does not make you more inclusive.
Your friend should be covered by disability law and I fully support disabled parking spots. However you can pretty quickly and without needing a permit card see that a parent struggling with young children or an elderly person struggling to walk needs the spot more than you!
These spots were originally created by Coles outside their supermarkets when they started a baby club others have since copied the idea. So it's purely a marketing promotion.
You have no idea how wrong you are!
Well. I have been wrong once before, so possible.
it's purely a marketing promotion
…and your point is? Is there anything wrong with making shoppers' lives easier?
I think they were just answering the question the OP posed:
Just wondering what your interpretation is of these spots?.
This a bit of a loaded question, however:
Is there anything wrong with making shoppers' lives easier?
i used to park in them when i didn't have the pram our kids aged 2 and 4 at the time.
Once i got inside would put them in a trolley.
For me, it would be if you have a baby/kid that sits on a pram.
However these spots are not enforceable. Even though it may be rude for a regular customer to park over there, you can't really do much.
Disabled parking spots are the only one that can legally be enforced
These 'parents with prams' parking bays are nice and convenient and certainly make a trip to the shops that little bit easier, however they aren't necessary. Put your kid/s in the pram and walk like everyone else does. Disabled bays are a must (and seniors for that matter), but not these!
And yes we have kids (now 6 and 3).
Not necessary, but you have to admit the closer to the entrance to the shops, the safer it is for young kids. Lots of hazards in a carpark.
lots of hazards world wide
Wow. Do you step outside?
You sound like the people complaining about parks having swings too high.
Good luck travelling around the world.
Wow, love the aggressive attitude guys! I just pointed out it's not necessary, but it is "safer" in principle.
I couldn't care less if these pram spots didn't exist. I have 4 kids and have never bothered to use them.
I have no idea why you think I'm "complaining". I basically agreed!
PS We've also traveled all over the world - Mexico, Cuba, Philippines to name a few places.
Thats why you hold their hand. what a load of crap.
There are hazards in your kitchen
And that's why I have a barrier in the kitchen. Bye Felipé!
Parking here guarantees some kid is going to open their door onto yours. I have kids they can get quite excited or distracted.
Otherwise its not enforced so still free for all. Its for the people that dont want to risk a fine for parking in the disabled carpark
I use them with my 3yr old twins without the pram.
They are usually a direct roadless access to the shops.
Having not to negotiate a carpark with two young kids is much safer from the parents spots.
Adult with no kids = jerk
Adults with kids who are older than age to be in pram/trolley = jerk
I don't believe these parks are enforceable like the disabled ones apparently are; i have seen Police issue tickets for offenders parking in Disabled spots. I have a disabled card that i only like to use on my really bad days, or if there are ample spaces available. My assumption is that there are others who may wish to use the spaces that may be worse off physically than i. It is irksome that some very obvious physically fit drivers and passengers often use the Disabled spots. You can use the cards if your passenger qualifies for use too. Sometimes when i think i am having a good day and park far away, i feel like collapsing outside the shops themselves so an outside seat or two (apart from the smoking area) would be very useful.
Cars have child proof car door locking but few appear to use them outside schools or in car parks. Not only do they offer children safe exiting under parental control, they stop them from swinging car doors to hit others. It was good enough for me get out of the car and walk around it to open the passenger side doors to supervise the children exiting, so I think it is good enough for others; we never damaged others property either.
You would (possibly) be surprised at the sheer number of cars (usually 4WD these days) that barely stop and children spilling out on the drivers side and without looking run across the road to school. 40kmh is far too fast a school speed limit to accommodate these parents attitudes. If it is because they are time poor, double-parked or blocking driveways … just park a little further away and (shudders) walk! May give the parents a bit more quality time with their children and encourage safe road crossing too.
Also 20kmh is too fast for car parks with little (and big) children to consider, yet you frequently see drivers speeding through without a care in the World. Don't think I don't emphathize with single parents of toddler aged and/or disabled children; just have to find a workable strategy for you. A little more care and supervision is required by all drivers; we shouldn't really need signs to show a bit more courtesy.
I am a (reasonably) physically fit driver but park in permit spaces when I have my father with me (he has a permit). So don't assume the permit ia always for the driver.
Correct; I mentioned that these disabled cards cover disabled passengers too. (My elderly mother would bring hers along when i took her for her appointments etc. I am careful with my assumptions as disabilities are not always obvious. If people jump out and almost run into the shops it is highly suspect, although i try to give them the benefit of the doubt, assuming some emergency. You tend to notice more of this behaviour when you cannot leave the car yourself to go shopping (a son would do this for me; one with a recognised disability, although I the one having had several back operations .. hopefully fixable). I am sure some are suspect of me too on my better days though! If people truly suspect and feel offended they could report the incidence to the Police. I think that is why i saw Police booking cars in some disabled bays not too long ago. If someone had use of the card on those occasions they could refute the fine easily enough.
Police can't issue tickets in shopping centre parking, because it's private property…
I have seen local Police (apparently but perhaps I am wrong) do just that. Walking up and down checking these permits, noting registrations and issuing some notices. These were attached to windscreens, but of course I did not read them, so I take your point. These (only a few at that time) were outside a popular pharmacy.
I have wondered upon this private property issue in the past myself. In Victoria local Police (Casey Council district) can and have issued fines if a car is left unlocked at a petrol service station.
I highly doubt it - this doesn't sound like a first hand account but some form of heresay. Police can't issue fines on shopping centre property any more than they can fine your own car for improper parking in your own driveway on your own land.
@ninetyNineCents:
First hand account. I only saw this once whilst I was waiting in the car (I have a disabled permit; barely walking at the time). Thompson Parkway Shopping Centre, Thompson Road, Cranbourne North.
Regarding the cars being unlocked at a service station; it was reported in the local newspapers at the time. Most of us had not heard of that one either. So, not only do you take your keys with you, you are supposed to lock it. I guess it is up to the Police to enforce the ruling if they care to. Probably a reaction to the number of stolen cars in the district. Ring them if you don't believe me. We (in Cranbourne) seem to only get the one local paper now, the News. I am not sure what service station it occurred at but I think it was the Safeway Caltex one in The Homemaker Centre, South Gippsland Highway. Few years back.
Hope that helps.
Regarding the cars being unlocked at a service station;
Well firstly this is not a parking offence, but some sort of abandonment type law. I dont know the specifics but that would make sense, people cant just leave their car on the property of others, eg i cant just park my car on your front lawn.
Again this ( im of course guessing) isnt a parking or speeding issue, its dumping garbage ( the car) on someone elses property.
In Victoria local Police (Casey Council district) can and have issued fines if a car is left unlocked at a petrol service station.
First of all, you dont know the full situation, you are making a lot of assumptions about what and why that car was ticketed. There are plenty of laws the car could have broken without it being a parking violation. Since none of us really know the details its not possible to guess.
Regarding the cars being unlocked at a service station; it was reported in the local newspapers at the time.
Newspapers are hardly well known for hiring or really caring about reporting the facts in all cases. They just dont care and often write up anything, just like current affair shows.
What im trying to say is, without all the facts, we cant just "guess", there could be many other more reasonable reasons for the event your describing. After all, like i said in another comment, who gave the shopping center the governmental rights to set parking limits ? They cant set parking limits any more than your neighbour can set a limit for the spot in front of your house. To stop people from using the spots when they catch the train, they then charge a rate, after a reasonable typical shopping time.
Only the government can make laws, can enforce them via the police and courts and jails for punishment. Private companies or peoples like westfield or you or me, cant do the same…
In Victoria local Police (Casey Council district) can and have issued fines if a car is left unlocked at a petrol service station.
This from the rms hand book.
https://www.google.com.sg/url?q=http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/do…
CHECKS FOR PARKING
Before getting out of your vehicle you must check your mirrors and blind spots for
pedestrians, bicycles or other vehicles.
Before leaving your parked vehicle you must ensure that:
• The parking brake is on.
• The gears are engaged either in first gear for downhill, reverse for uphill.
Automatic vehicles should be left in PARK.
If you are more than three metres away from your vehicle you must:
• Remove the key out of the ignition.
• Lock all doors and windows if there is no one in the vehicle.
The road rule is 213.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/…
Thats fine - thanx…
i think you fail to appreciate that parking restrictions, and speeding limits only apply to public land, they cannot be enforced upon private land.
@whooah1979: Thank for the link; very informative. I had not even thought about closing the windows when at a petrol station. We are in Victoria (unsure if that makes any difference).
The newspaper article I read was the first time I had heard that securing of vehicles at petrol stations was essential, and when I mentioned it to others no one else either had (so not the only one ignorant of that particular road rule … but we know ignorance of the Law is no excuse ). I imagine (guess) it is one of those laws that Police are not so vigilant in finding offenders. We came down from FNQ at a time we never locked our vehicles so frequently forgetting to lock them … everywhere!
Police can't issue tickets in shopping centre parking, because it's private property…
that is incorrect. a leo can issue infringement notices on private property that are open to the public. private property owners can also engage the local council to have their rangers patrol their private car parks.
I have never seen this happen or mentioned in any Westfield. They can on,y tow you for all problems and charge you for the cost. They(Westfield) never mention other infringements in their conditions.
Please provide proof…
@ninetyNineCents:
13 What is a road related area
(1) A road related area is any of the following:
[…]
(d) an area that is not a road and that is open to or used by the public for driving, riding or parking vehicles.
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/regulation/2014/758…
Proof of the legality, and others have reported anecdotal evidence of enforcement.
The text your referring too doesn't mention anything about private property. It only mentions roads and public areas, that is what is a road in a public area. If you read the other notes, none of the, remotely Sou d like a shopping centre.
I have never heard or seen of r b t in a Westfield etc for the same reason, the parking area is not a public road which means police can't enforce those specific laws.
It only mentions roads and public areas, that is what is a road in a public area. If you read the other notes, none of the, remotely Sou d like a shopping centre.
this nrma blog may not be the best source, but it's easier to read for those that don't understand the road rules.
https://www.mynrma.com.au/blog/2016/03/03/road-rules-in-shop…
i'll try and find more links when i have time.
I highly doubt the NRMA article can possibly be legal. For starters, the speed limit in shopping centers are setup by the shopping center or contractors for them, either way they are not set by the gov. I doubt anyone can be done for speeding a limit set by another public person who is not a officer of the government. Its no different from someone else in your street setting the speed limit for your street, that simply is not legal.
I cannot believe that there are drivers driving around that don't understand what a road related area is, or that they refuse to learn it.
Can a hwp please login and explain what rule 13 means.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/…
https://www.google.com.sg/url?q=http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/do…
(d) an area that is not a road and that is open to or used by the public for driving, riding or parking vehicles.
ok D is the bit your referring too…
In practice when was the last time anyone ever saw a parking police or regular police in a westfield ???
Its almost like theres an untested or unwritten law that the gov never tries to enforce those laws in private shopping centers, which means the law by default does not exist in that regard. Im wondering if the text above is about parking in a "public" or "crown" land area.
Actually i thought about this crossing the road today, and if parking places in shopping centers are "Road related", then that means there should also be government signs regulating speed and other things, but i have never seen ONE anywhere. I think that prettty much establishes they are private property and not part of the definition your claiming.
I don't like them having benefits that I'll never get either, but I don't park in the parent spots because I try not to be a selfish (profanity)