Paid no attention to parents with pram parking at shopping centres until I became a parent myself 9 months ago.
Just wondering what your interpretation is of these spots?.
I have seen: Adults with no kids, car seat,or pram park in these sports and I have also seen families park in these spots where the kids are of primary school age and beyond and no longer need to be in a pram.
I agree with you. Also i think disabled drivers/passengers should be able to utilize them too, when there are insufficient disabled bays available.
Disabled drivers can park pretty much wherever they want. To suggest a disabled person should park further away so as to provide convenience for a non-disabled person, because they are a parent, is utterly ridiculous.
Need: Disabled people > parents with prams
Come again.
I did not make that suggestion at all.
@JediJan: Re: parental parking
"Also I think disabled drivers/passengers should be able to utilize them too, when there are insufficient disabled bays available."
They already are/do/should be able to utilize these spots. Disabled drivers are more important/have greater need than parents.
I think you are just trolling me. To keep you happy; just on this occasion:
I never suggested "a disabled person [should] park further away so as to provide convenience for a non-disabled person … blah blah blah."
People were asked for opinions in here. We don't always agree but, that is the beauty of discussion and sensible argument. I don't understand why you want to pick a quarrel with me, when there is no reason I can see to do so. Maybe try someone else who may be a little more obliging … maybe you have a bone to pick … but me?
I have a disability. I try to be nice to people even when we disagree. Maybe you should try that tack too.
Bye; have a nice evening one and all ✌
@woolfenstein: give it a rest mate….you obviously cannot read lol…@JediJan was not saying what you suggest at all.
I agree with you JediJan.
You can put all the stickers in the world on the car, but even then that does not make you entitled to use the spots, nor are they in any way shape or form legally enforcable as they are not recongised in any legal form such as ADR's etc (unlike disabled parking)
Well said.
andrgram 16 hours 34 min ago
"try pick up a kid out of a pram and then put them into their car seat whilst holding the door with your foot making sure it doesn't hit or scratch the car beside you."
Why would it be any harder than picking up a few bags of groceries out of a shopping trolley, which is bigger and heavier and putting them on my back seat?
Groceries don't get hit by cars
Meaningless comment.
Are you implying that children and or prams have some miraculous force field around them that prevents cars from hitting them?
@StewBalls: He seems to have forgotten that as inanimate objects, bags of groceries will stay put until you move them, and when you pick them up they don't squirm around and fight being put in the car and clip on their belt. Putting shopping bags on the seat is easy.
@airzone: and you seem to have forgotten that a shopping trolley with no brakes on the wheels, full of grocery and several times larger and heavier than a pram has a mind of its own and needs more room and is harder to control than a lightweight pram.
@Davros: I suspect you haven't done solo shopping with kids before.
The well planned parent has at least one of the squirming kids in the heavy trolley's seat, and any additionals either in the trolley (if you've only gone to buy bread and milk), or a combination of vice-like grip (trolley single-handed), under arm (usually employed when kid is uncooperative, and trolley single-handed), on your shoulders (best when you have outdoors parking or a high roof clearance… hitting kids head on fire extinguisher pipes isn't fun for anyone). Along with the heavy trolley with a mind of it's own.
@airzone: I suspect you haven't done solo shopping with kids before.
You suspect wrong, but some of us have better behaved kids than others.
" on your shoulders (best when you have outdoors parking or a high roof clearance… hitting kids head on fire extinguisher pipes isn't fun for anyone)"
Thats nothing but you being unobservant and i'll say it, bad parenting on your part.
"Along with the heavy trolley with a mind of it's own."
Yes, I mentioned the trolley.
Here's a tip, woolies and coles have an online buy and delivery service, I use it often and havent had to contend with an overly heavy trolley for quite a while now.
Maybe you should try that and save your kids heads and you some obvious angst.
@Davros: As you so aptly said just below "The world need less people like you who make assumptions and more that deal with facts.".. Specifically where did I mention that I hit my kids head on anything? Or are you making an assumption?
Aldi offers such a home delivery service? The local baker / butcher? Asian market? Prescriptions? The local GP also has his base in the shopping centre…
C'mon mate.
@airzone: Specifically where did I mention that I hit my kids head on anything?
So your example of hitting the kids head on a "fire extinguisher pipes isn't fun for anyone" was made up BS then.
"Aldi offers such a home delivery service?" so dont use them, use the grocery that meets your needs.
"The local baker / butcher? Asian market? Prescriptions?" Are you really going to have an overloaded shopping trolley full of bread, drugs or bok choy?
"The local GP also has his base in the shopping centre…" What has that to do with overloaded trolleys?
Many years ago, when these spots were first added to my local shopping centre, I was challenged a couple of times by elderly shoppers who thought I was taking a disabled spot. I guess many people weren't aware of these types of car parks then. They did apologise once I pointed out the difference and having a baby in the car tended to diffuse the situation as well.
Different time and place and I had a profusely apologetic Mum with quite a handful of children using a disabled parking bay, trying to load children and groceries. I told her not to worry about it (there were several disabled bays available too). In my opinion she had far bigger needs than I. At that time it was a difficult struggle to get in and out of the car and then try to walk into the shops.
Something I would not have considered years ago, but more seating outside supermarkets, and shopping centres in general, would be very useful. I used to worry about entering some at all (became semi- reclusive), for a time at least, lest there was no seating available if urgently required.
I think these are fair game if the carpark is actually full.
Completely full? Sure. I don't think anyone disagrees with you.
I would hope not, because my opinion is clearly correct.
=P
Just kidding. I don't shop in big shopping centers much, which are the only places I've seen pram-only car parks. So I have no idea how common it is for those carparks to fill up.
If they have children with prams;
Why not just children?
Why not just old people?
Why not just obese people?
Why not just women?
Why not just large families/carpooling?
Why not just smokers with shortness of breath?
Why not just 10 minute parking?
Why not just Army/Navy/Airforce?
Why not just Firefighters/Cops/Ambulance workers?
This is why I hate people. Everybody expects something.
Everybody should be able to live their life equally.
I dont hate anyone.
I don't expect anything from anyone, but hope to be treated in the same way as the respect I hope I show others. I do try, even if it is not always apparent.
People are fallible; we should not be so quick to pass out judgement on others, and we hope they in return forgive our own blunders along the way. We can all be a little more caring towards others, not forgetting a little consideration sonetimes can do wonders. I am a great believer in the "Pass it forward" idea.
Smile and the World smiles with you.
😊
Actually I've seen parks that are marked for old people. First responders also already get special rights if on duty (i.e. ambo's can park in spots that are usually no parking, fire trucks can park pretty much wherever they want if they need to).
Parking spots for people with prams, and old people, work quite simply because the general populace are wiling to respect it (as this thread demonstrates). Where as parking spots for smokers with breathing problems, or obese people, probably would not get such a good reception.
As already stated on the thread, these kind of 'special' parking spots are non-enforceable (unlike disabled parking that use a government issued permits). So even if every body expects something, some groups get it and get sympathy more readily than others.
Its not like parents went and stole the bays, the business owners (i.e. the centre) decided they wanted to cater to one type of customer, I am sure if they did their math and worked out they could get obese people to spend more time and money in the centre by providing special parking bays they would do it. It's not like disabled bays where they legally have to have a certain number, these are purely a business decision by the owner
I support people who find it harder or more dangerous having spots set aside for them, especially when it's not even enforced with fines. The rest of this is humour.
Why not just children?
Children don't drive their cars to the shops on their own :PWhy not just old people?
They need to keep healthy too? (If they can't move too quickly they should qualify for disability anyway).
Why not just obese people?
For the excercise?
Why not Jo Mamma? ;-)
Why not just women?
Because they want equality.
Why not just large families/carpooling?
Why would you need special spots for large families?
Why not just smokers with shortness of breath?
If they're that short of breath they probably qualify for a disability.
Why not just 10 minute parking?
Because no one ever sticks to 5 mins.
Why not just Army/Navy/Airforce?
Because they are the fittest and most able bodied.
Why not just Firefighters/Cops/Ambulance workers?
Because they are the second fittest and most able bodied.
I think they are ridiculous.
They should be given to disabled people.
I dont remember that i have seen the disabled parking full since the beginning of the year, i believe shopping centers normally have plenty of disabled parking near all entrance at least in WA.
Many existing shopping centres in the growth corridor of South Eastern Victoria are modernising and improving the shortfall that used to exist with some of them. This appears (I am guessing here) to be as a consequence of the newly built shopping centres. These seem to be attracting more disabled shoppers as they offer more disabled parking bays, lower inclines etc.
I have seen disabled parking spots full constantly lately - full of non-disabled 4wd owners.
Precisely.
And they removed disabled spots for damn people with prams? Try shopping when you have difficulty walking 100m.
They removed disabled spots for pram spots in NSW.
Utterly ridiculous.
Still some mothers crying for their so called pram spots.
What!?
Where!?
They can't actually reduce the number of disabled spots beyond a certain (very generous) limit, by law.
I found a fully loaded shopping trolley is much harder to control than a pram. So, like it or not, I propose all parent with pram spots to be converted to shopper with trolley spots.
Try both the trolley AND the pram at the same time.
If we could all have our cake and eat it too.
Having children is now a luxury? Or is it shopping for food that you can go without? With attitudes like this it's no wonder society is going to shit.
The parents with prams bays have been nothing but a problem since they started. With arguments like this in ozbargain - power trippers go around causing trouble in real life. Disabled spots were removed to make way for them. They are not necessary and they are only giving privileges to people and disadvantaging others. most of these spots aren't wider and you still have to cross the road so its not safer for children. Most the people in favor of them only argue with selfish intent - because they are the ones using them and they just don't want to have to look for a spot like everyone else. People always come up with excuses as the why their circumstances warrant more privilege than others.
Finally some truth in this thread.
Disabled spots were removed to make way for them.
Is there any proof of this?
the centre had exceeded the number of disabled bays prescribed by law.
And there it is.
It shouldn't be up to the shopping centre - the closest X spots should be disabled spots by law, with serious penalties for infringement (where X is a reasonable number based on research).
There are legislated minimum numbers and types of spots for disabled parking. They haven't removed all the disabled parking to put in parents with prams in any shopping center I've seen.
I'd be amazed if any carpark had replaced ANY disabled spots with parents spots, ever.
Moved them, maybe.
nope the centre i go to painted over them with the red parents in pram. you can still see the blue at the bottom and they didn't put any more disabled bays in.
By law they must have a certain number of disabled parking spots. This number is very high, to insure that severely disabled people can still get easy-access parking even during heavy peak times.
The only ways they can replace disabled parking spots with Parents spots, without incurring serious penalties, are:
a) They moved the disabled spots to some other place (by law, it must be somewhere else with easy access to an entrance, so not an issue).
b) They somehow had a ridiculous number of disabled spots to start with, so many that they are above the minimum requirement and could afford to lose a few.
So unless they are breaking the law, "Disabled spots were removed to make way for them" is misleading.
Go to Chadstone.
The disabled spots are gone, now replaced with mum-taxi zones.
@mgowen: You are basing your argument entirely on your assumption and your imagination its just plain oppositional because you don't want to accept it. several people here have said the same thing so your opinion has no basis. there was not a ridiculous number of disabled spots and they are always full so NO disabled people can't afford to lose a few.
Here is one of the situations where disabled spots were painted over.
Exactly as I said, they were only able to do it because they'd already "exceeded the number of disabled bays prescribed by law":
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/south-east/new-casey-cent…
Now, it sounds like they may have acted poorly by having a disabled spot further from the entrance than a Parents' spot - it's badly written and hard to tell (perhaps deliberately, can't let facts get in the way of anger, since that's what gets pageviews and sells newspapers).
I'm a parent with small kids and a baby, but I'm strongly in favour of disabled spots taking priority over Parents spots. I chose to be a parent, and I don't expect society to bend over backwards for me.
I'm just not fond of ACA-style panic over non-issues. I feel it distracts people from actual problems that need attention.
This is an excellent example: if there are insufficient disabled spots, and they don't have easy access, then that's an actual problem. It just has nothing to do with Parents' spots.
I'd be amazed if any carpark had replaced ANY disabled spots with parents spots, ever.
Moved them, maybe.
They somehow had a ridiculous number of disabled spots to start with
Seems like your backpedaling now because its very clear you are not supporting disabled parking at all.
if there are insufficient disabled spots, and they don't have easy access, then that's an actual problem. It just has nothing to do with Parents' spots.
Your whole argument has been based on arguing that the parents' spots did have an effect on disabled spots and now you're saying its not, which is contradicting yourself.
Personally I see it as the Centre has chosen to try and make things easier for a particular type of customer, no one is forcing anyone to shop at that centre, so if someone has an issue with the centre making the decision on their own property to make a few spaces designated just for parents with young kids they can always shop elsewhere.
I don't get the "why should YOU get a special spot" mentality from some trolls on here, the parents didnt get out there and paint the bays, the OWNER of the centre decided what they wanted to do with THEIR space. This isn't some hippie commune, business owners do have the right to make these decisions for what they determine is best for their business.
I would think that shopping centres have provided these parent/child parking bays in response to what the community wants (but only guessing as I know not). Sometimes there are surveys conducted at the shopping centres and they often asked what people want to see at those particular centres. (I requested a movie theatre; we used to have one at the centre but it was closed down and more shops added… we did not get another one though!)
Up to the customers if they want to do the odd shopping centre survey now and then. Obviously parent/child parking bays must have figured highly on these surveys; would guess at least half of the customers are parents with young children these days.
For the record, there's nothing selfish about being a parent at all. In fact, the exact opposite is true. When you have no kids, you can be selfish and entitled (as you clearly are). It's a good thing that you have no children so your terrible attitude isn't replicated and society gets better by having more caring people and one less selfish, nasty, egotistical loser
"It's a good thing that you have no children so your terrible attitude isn't replicated and society gets better by having more caring people and one less selfish, nasty, egotistical loser"
Why is it that people with children always resort to these style of attacks?
They think that just because they breed, which is nothing special, that they are somehow better than everyone else.
Reality usually shows that this is not the case with only a small % of people on this planet actually doing good and the vast majority doing nothing more than consume.
Where did I say that? I said parenting is far from being selfish and having children actually is very special. How could you know if you don't have any? Your neg doesn't change the fact that being a parent is to have a selfless life. When you don't have children, you can be selfish and entitled. This world needs more considerate people and less people like you.
You made an assumption that I have no children.
The world need less people like you who make assumptions and more that deal with facts.
you didn't have children for any other reason than your own selfish wants, don't sit there and pretend like you did it for anyone other than yourself. Its a real shame someone with your attitude decided the world needed more of you - the rest of us don't want that and we need more of the people who don't see breeding as an outright positive because they actually think of things other than themselves.
these people always resort to this because they have no real argument. i actually think a lot of these sort only have children to dominate them and blame them for their bad behavior, poor kids.
This is really funny. The majority of people at some stage, will be parents. So apparently the majority of the world should be living a selfless life… Why is it so cruddy?
Pay no attention to the lynch mob/"anti-breeders". A few crazies have come out of the woodwork and used this thread as a platform for their anti-children/parent agenda.
@got_rice: do you think its acceptable to call anyone that doesn't agree with your opinions "crazies" and use mental illness as an insult? Is mental illness just a big joke to you, that you think it's o.k to tease those people?
the main anti-breeders here have been parents themselves turning around saying ridiculous comments like I am glad you didn't breed - when none of the comments have implied they don't have children. Just goes to show you have no logical argument so you resort to trying to insult others.
To be honest, I pity them
Talk about assumptions! I had them in an effort to bring up better human beings for this world as the selfish, nasty people die out. Your parents had you didn't they? Selfish of them to give you life…
A little simplistic don't you think? Let's say it's bad parenting… A simplistic amswer
If you have children and don't think it's special, I pity your kids. They are all pretty special to their parents. Are you that empty a parent?
Spoken like a person that has no idea how much effort it takes to raise a child at all, let alone raise them well.
The entitlement of parents (especially new parents) is disturbing.
Wow you procreated. Do you want a medal?
There are more than enough people on the planet and insufficient resources. Why should you get parking spots because you have a pram? No one asked you to have children.
That's like someone with a big car complaining there aren't more spots designated solely to people with big cars.
Get over yourself.
Oh the irony! I'll let you figure it out
There's a new-ish shopping centre near our place (East Village Zetland), with a whole row of these parents with prams spots near the entrance.
I always see them filled with gym goers going to the gym upstairs.
I try to do the right thing and only use them if I have my two kids (one 3-year old and one 3-month old) in tow.
There's a new-ish shopping centre near our place (East Village Zetland), with a whole row of these parents with prams spots near the entrance.
does it have any disabled parking spots. if it has, then how many compared to the prams side?
Pretty sure there are disabled spots, but to be honest I haven't really been keeping an eye out for them.
"Paid no attention to parents with pram parking at shopping centres until I became a parent myself 9 months ago."
That's what you call a selfish (profanity).
I didn't automatically read "Paid no attention" as "blithely used"…so just assuming the worst of the OP might actually be drawing a long bow in this case.
I know a lot of people who prior to becoming aware of these spaces didn't even look closely at the actual image on the ground, they just saw paint there & assumed it was for the disabled or emergency vehicles etc, so just moved on quietly to another spot.
I park in those spots. I have 5 kids but I even park in them when by myself. I understand disabled spots, seniors and pram spots but so much. In Germany now there is Women only spots, because they could be a target of something. What's next? Weak looking male spots? Homosexuals spots? Muslim spots? Glasses wearer spots? Just find your spot and get on with it. I don't respect any of these special spots, other than disabled spots.
I guess you'd probably say the same about disabled spots if you didn't get fined for parking in them.
I don't think it will be that far off that we will have the women only train carriages in Australia. Germany has had a lot of problems with many male migrant workers/non-workers (dare I say refugees) who look upon unaccompanied women as sexual targets.
Japan has had female only carriages for a long time, due to crowding/the incidence of groping/assault. It has nothing to do with refugees. To say this is incredibly racist.
Expected no less from you; now you are calling me out as racist. Cheap shot. You do not know me or my multi-cultural friends who would laugh in your face. As I suggested in an earlier post; go troll elsewhere.
Do you deny unaccompanied women in Europe are manhandled and treated poorly by some immigrant workers from Europe who are unaccustomed to the way Western countries expect citizens to behave? Interesting.
Reference was to Germany: I only repeated what the German women are saying, and it is well documented in many of their newspapers. Just look at New Years Eve for example. Is it racist to repeat what all the tabloids are saying? Have you visited there and asked a few women? My brother has (lived in Europe for about 20 years now); he is fluent in the German language too.
@JediJan: Women in Germany are also assaulted by German men. This has been happening long before the hysteria regarding refugees.
"many male migrant workers/non-workers (dare I say refugees) who look upon unaccompanied women as sexual targets"
So do many non-migrant males. Everywhere. The objectification of women is woven heavily through-out western society. Sex doesn't sell. Sexy women sell. There are no semi-nude men in ads for sausages. Focus on that if you must, not blaming refugees for a pre-existing problem.
@woolfenstein: You should tell that to the people who live there. The migrant/refugee problem has been well documented in the media over there. The problem was not such a prolific one as it is now. As in Australia, women were not discouraged from going about on their own business alone. Now they are actively discouraged from doing so; risks are perceived too high to do otherwise. Who can blame women for requesting women only carriages?
@JediJan: As I have previously pointed out - women only carriages are not the issue. Your swallowing of mainstream media bias, and subsequent racism is.
Women want gender equality on one hand, but it's intriguing how the femenazis go all silent when women-only carriages are introduced or even thought about.
The problem is not how to keep women safe. The problem should be how to keep your country safe. Germany dug its own grave by leading the way and accepting hundreds of illegal migrants, and now they're paying the price.
I am not getting into that debate; I +'d you for the Germany comment though! I see both sides of the coin here, but many of the men here must have daughters. Would they feel the same way if their daughters, wives and mothers were found in those awful predicaments? Cannot count on any male passengers for assistance (my own experience as a young 20+ year old … the other male passengers just raised their newspapers higher so they didn't have to watch). One does not have to be a feminazi to have concerns about the safety of women.
Apparently (according to my brother who lives in and travels around Europe … no OFFICIAL source of course), much of the incidence is because Germany is short of skilled workers, workers in general, and have sought to replace the shortfall with immigrant workers. This was even prior to the (ahem current) Syrian refugee crisis.
It is difficult to answer without being called out a racist (see above).
There are several countries with zero population growth that are seeking ways to improve their economies by increasing immigration. It seems to me (and I know absolutely nothing of course … watch the negs now) that Australia has too low a birth rate (and I wonder why this is?) for its economy, and will have to increase its immigration quotas to make up for this shortfall also.
I was down at Castle Towers today, and the sign read something like, cars with child restraints only. Fine $130.
Fine $130.
not enforceable unless stated in the road rules 2014.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/
Well I hope it deters people enough. Shopping is already hard enough with toddlers.
Whooah is essentially correct; however, it's a bit of a legal minefield contractually speaking; and even though it's not strictly speaking enforceable as a fine per se, private car park operators can still make your life somewhat difficult if they so choose: http://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/publications/factsheets-and-r…
As you say, hopefully the threat mitigates some of the childish antisocial douchebaggery! ;)
If I saw that sign there I'd purposely park there just to see what law I'd be allegedly infringing.
How did the world ever survive without pram parking spots, eh?
I guess there was a really high mortality rate of "parents with prams" making it from the car to the shops.
I would like to see special parking spots for redheads.
We all know the risks of skin cancer and having to walk the extra 100m in the blazing hot sun from the back of the car park COULD BE DEADLY to us rangas.
Might petition my local woollies for this. Who's with me
+1 for use of ranga lol
I think if there's a baby seat or booster seat in the car (and at least one child in the car at the time), you're good to use it. If none of your children need those, you probably don't need to use that space.
Yeah and perhaps we should allow people with sprained ankles to use disabled spots because they are sort-of-disabled right?
The spots aren't designed for you if you're not going to abide by the rules then don't show outrage if everyone uses them.
I want GAY parking sport of people like me who spent lots at the shop.
Be careful though, you might get… no, too soon…
Hate how shopping centres are now making these types of car parks more prolific and/or closer to the entrance than the disabled bays.
People raise the argument that parents shouldn't require "special parking" spots because we are no different to everybody else….that i agree with, yes we are no different….but try pick up a kid out of a pram and then put them into their car seat whilst holding the door with your foot making sure it doesn't hit or scratch the car beside you.
I've said to a few people now, i don't mind if people park in these spots if the carpark is full…maybe Maternal nurses should govern Parental Parking with stickers much like Disabled parking, for those who are on top of general check-ups and vaccinations etc.
Parental parking is mores for child safety and limiting avoidable accidents…