Surveillance Setup for a 2 Storey Home

spacebanana on 03/09/2016 - 16:57
Last edited 03/09/2016 - 16:58

Hi guys!
Hoping for some helpful advice on the topic of surveillance for our home.
I will list a few requirements for our situation;

-Needs to have remote monitoring; we have to do this through a 4G router because we have no fixed internet yet. So hopefully it only consumes data when we access it on our phones.
-Needs to be about 7-8 Cameras to be mounted in our garage and outside on walls, all in the "bullet" style with metal mounting brackets.
-Motion detection in the NVR, with the ability to select a an area in the field of vision, so it doesnt pick up passing cars
-Something we can securely access, must be very secure. We want to be able to set certain hours of the day that we could make it send us alerts on our mobiles when motion is detected
-All to be wired with POE
-Hopefully a good all round camera for around the 100-150 dollar mark per camera.

Have looked at Hikvision and similar on AliExpress but would love some feedback on these
We will use a NVR with a 2 or so TB hard drive.

Something like this looks nice and sturdy, and waterproof
http://tinyurl.com/j6ouyz9

Want to spend a max of around 1500 or so, including cabling, happy to do all the installation myself (have a licensed cabler best mate)

All input welcome!!

Cheers

Electrical & Electronics

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 03/09/2016 - 17:58

    Only comment I have is think of neighbours, and mount in locations where neighbours know you can't see in their property. House near us looks into multiple yards (cameras mounted under gutters on tall 2 storey house). I enquired with council and they didn't care. I didn't persue, but other neighbours must have as about 1/2 of them got taken down.

  • whooah1979 on 03/09/2016 - 18:26

    enquired with council and they didn't care.

    It's not that they don't care, but rather they have legal right interfere in matters that doesn't concern them.

  • [Deactivated] on 03/09/2016 - 22:29

    8 cameras is a lot of cameras.

    Look at ubiquity cameras

    • tight-ass on 03/09/2016 - 23:55
      +1

      8 camera's may seem a lot, but not if you want good coverage. I've got 12 around our house and every angle is covered so there are no blind spots. 2 cameras at the front are pointing down the street to capture rego's, there's one at the front door, 1 in my garage (handy to check if the garage door was actually put down when you headed out) and 2 for the very front of my property.

      All cam's record 24/7 to my pc and will alert me via the 'Blueiris' app on my smartphone should motion be detected on any of them. I can also access the 'alert' via the app to play back the footage of the event. I also get an email to my work address with 2 snap shots of the motion detected. As soon as we get the NBN, I'll be able to set it up so that video is uploaded to the cloud if motion is detected.

      Generally for an average size house you'll need 8 cameras for sufficient coverage - 2 camera's at the front, 2 rear and 2 on either side. If you're going to the effort of installing camera's you may as well do it properly and use good quality gear (Hikvision). At the end of the day the camera's are only $100 each, so small change in the whole scheme of things to do it properly.

      I cringe when I see some of the 'professionally installed' CCTV camera systems that were installed around here using the same cameras I've got but for mega $$$ that offer little coverage and access can easily be made to the property without being detected by a single camera because of the 'blind spots' in the system - generally due to a lack of camera's, but sometimes due to poor camera placement.

      I'd never heard of 'Ubiquity cameras' until now. but from what I've seen spec wise they don't look the greatest - similar to Swann cameras which are overpriced junk. If you haven't already, have a look at this whirlpool thread, you'll see Hikvision cameras get mentioned again and again because of their price and spec level/quality - https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2551216

      • spacebanana on 04/09/2016 - 11:09

        Thanks for your awesome reply mate!
        So you have Hikvision cameras recording to a PC, and then blueiris setup to alert you, how does it alert you? Just a push notification?

        Are you able to set a area in the field of vision for motion detection? worried about putting them next to a road with motion detections

        • tight-ass on 04/09/2016 - 11:36
          +1

          In response to above, yes and yes.

          If you go down the NVR route you'll be relying on the camera's in-built motion detection, whereas if you use Blue Iris on a PC the CCTV software does all the motion detection work and is more accurate.

          You'll still get false alerts occasionally, especially at night with moths hanging around the IR source, but it will be better than relying on the in-built motion detection that comes with the cameras. You can also 'highlight' and 'mask' any part of the cameras image for more accuracy.

          Also I don't know anything about the Hikvision camera you linked above, but I'm sure it will be fine. I've got the following cameras, most of which are the dome type:

          DS-2CD3332-I x 6
          DS-2CD3335-I X 3
          DS-2CD2332-I X 1
          DS-2CD2632F-IS X 2

          If you decide to get the dome style, just make sure it's the one where the frame/body is made out of metal/aluminium and not plastic. All of my cameras except the 3X 2CD3335-I's have a metal frame/body….the plastic versions are no where near as good in terms of ease of mounting and being vandal proof - I bought them thinking they were metal and was disappointed when they arrive, but I can live with it.

        • junk3569 on 05/10/2016 - 22:25

          @tight-ass:
          Hi, TA. I am totally new to this, i am looking to setup the whole Hikvision system through Aliexpress. I wanted to get NVR DS-7616-E2 8P along with 6-8 cameras. How do you know which one is metal?

        • junk3569 on 05/10/2016 - 23:31

          @tight-ass:
          do you use mounting bracket?

      • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2016 - 12:05

        12 cameras? That really does seem excessive.
        How many enemies do you have?

        • tight-ass on 04/09/2016 - 12:09

          Did you not read my response above???? Anything less and there will be blind spots - is it really that hard to get your head around?

          Plus there have been lots of burglary's around us in the last 12 months, which isn't helped by the fact we have 2 drug houses at the end of our street. The cops are regularly executing search warrants at these houses.

          We've never been broken into and I would like to try and keep it that way - they are a big deterrent. Even if we do get broken into, I'll know straight away and they won't get a chance to steal much if anything.

        • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2016 - 16:05

          @tight-ass:
          You'd think so, theives are much faster than the cops.

          So you live in a rough neighborhood then.

        • whooah1979 on 04/09/2016 - 16:39
          +2

          How many enemies do you have?

          tight-ass likes to keep his enemies penetration to a minimum.

        • tight-ass on 04/09/2016 - 17:15

          @Drew22:

          Get a life you idiot & stop trolling for the sake of it

        • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2016 - 17:27

          @tight-ass:
          I love you too

  • aboabo on 03/09/2016 - 22:30

    "..send us alerts on our mobiles when motion is detected"

    What kind of alerts? Text or pics?

  • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2016 - 11:47
    +1

    Hikvision with BlueIRIS for the NVR, couldn't recommend more but it depends on your budget and requirements etc
    Dedicated NVR usually has POE and can record up to 8x30fps 1080p streams, if you pair it with a hikvision DVR it will work much easier and be a simpler setup that you can possibly monitor remotely

    I use them to monitor traffic coming in and out of an apartment block
    Provided they point into the street I see no issues with watching public spaces

    the camera you linked to arent bad, but id suggest going for the turret style here
    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1123106-REG/hikvision… <—ignore the price as theyre a rip off but this is the design I feel will work for you

    I have these cameras and they're bloody great and don't stand out like dogs balls like those longer cameras you linked to, personally i would always go for a turret style as they are simpler to mount and less likely to be knocked or vandalized etc

    Neighbours obviously would be an issue so I suggest keeping the focus on your yard areas
    Hikvision make excellent Turett cameras for about 120 bucks shipped from overseas here

    Professional Installation isn't an issue if you use premade network cables otherwise get a cabler to run ethernet from your NVR / PC point to each camera location, mount the camera and away you go, POE switch would make the installation easier as you can send power via the network cables to each location easily

    I have a TPLINK 8 port POE switch powering 2 Hikvision cameras and have blueiris sending me email alerts for any detections done, SMS texting is costly and pointless and really only ideal if you've got a huge corporate camera system going and have cash to burn

    Blueiris will stream to a builtin web service quite nicely over 4g, provided you have a Dynamic DNS Service that sits on the PC the 4g link runs on so you can always access your DVR PC you should do quite fine, I run 2 cameras on an i3, 8gb ram 500gb 7200rpm hdd without any issues but bare in mind the more cameras, the more grunt you will need and perhaps going to a dedicated NVR is best

    Hikvision are the best bang for buck and I wouldn't bother with any of the other cheap Swann, DLINK or cheap brands until you try these guys as they are excellent value for money and run ROCK Solid, rain hail or shine, all over a POE connector

    Camera placement is important, I do this for a hobby and always outline to my clients that placing a camera just one or two cm in a direction can make a huge impact to the point of having security in the first place

    Scope out your entry and exit points, this is the main thing to do with cameras, aim for 1-2 cameras covering each point in a yard and you should cover all blind spots, I did see an install the other day for 1200 bucks professionally done which looked good for a QLD install and that included 8 hikvision cameras and a DVR, will have to check the name of the installer as I thought that was bloody cheap for such a good system, including cabling, external conduit and mounting boxes for the camera and 2 dome cameras all at 1080p

    • tight-ass on 04/09/2016 - 12:01
      +1

      Excellent response.

      Re: buying Hikvision cameras, I bought all mine off Ebay from overseas. I also bought them when there was a 20% off everything sale. Same with the Cat cable.

      Although it was overkill in my situation, I went with 30m lengths of CAT cable for each camera. This allows me to move them around without having to worry about if the cable is long enough.

      If you decide to install them yourself, I would buy one camera first, set it all up and get everything working and before you mount the first camera, walk around the perimeter of your house during the day and night with the camera recording and hold the camera up to each location you think will be ideal for mounting a camera. Far easier to do this then to mount them all and have to move them later because the coverage isn't as good as you thought it would be or because you discover the image from a camera at night is crap because of the IR bouncing off something back into the camera.

      When it comes to mounting them all on the day, I just went around with my mobile phone and viewed the live stream to ensure everything was 100%

      • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2016 - 12:07

        The best part with the Hikvision is you can logon directly to the camera and run the built in activeX page, seeing a live stream
        I second this reasoning for two things

        1. easier to mount and see on a laptop screen what the camera sees
        2. much better to do this then have to relocate as tight-ass mentioned

        Hikvision also offer different mm focal ranges, i tend to find 4mm is the sweet spot for range and viewing angle
        you can get other ranges but they will vary what is in the field of view dramatically

        read this thread for more info on what I mean by this

        http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=39997

        it makes camera placement much easier knowing the fixed lens value
        4mm works best for me but you may find you want to try different lens fixed focus values in your case
        I would always recommend 4mm for a multiple story house as you get the best picture and best distance as theres no point zooming in and missing blind spots when you've got good cameras to begin with

        Nightvision on the Hikvisions is also good to about 20-25m as well and I have found a few settings to give you the best image / quality for both day and night usage, just a message away :)

        • tight-ass on 04/09/2016 - 12:14

          Just thought I would add that I went with a 2.8mm lens for my camera's.

          Also yes the night vision is good, but I also installed LED motion sensor flood lights to light up the place like daytime……the cameras switch to day mode they light up the place so well. Luckily for me though none of our neighbours actually front onto our street, so I don't have to worry about light spill and pissing them off.

        • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2016 - 12:18

          @tight-ass:

          2.8mm seems to be most common on ebay / alibaba

          although 4mm seems to flood the market, I do love though how some security companies here in brisbane upmark the hikvisions or hide the branding and charge a fortune per camera, its not really a tough market anymore since ethernet and POE come into the game

          Most people can do it themselves with premade 30m ethernet cables, saving a lot of money and time, ensuring you get it right though is the biggest point i'll stress, your security is only as good as camera placement and how well you've got your triggering on

          BlueIRIS does save a lot of the hard work in this respect and offers rock solid reliability
          Pair it up with a decent PC, NAS storage for backup and a UPS, you've got a nice little setup

          you could use an i7 nuc with 16gb of ram and a SSD for 8 cameras and I'd think you'd be doing well
          the best part is the NUC is small, consumes bugger all electricity and furthermore can be hidden

        • tight-ass on 04/09/2016 - 12:34

          @shawncro 222:

          I initially made my own cables, but it's not worth the time or effort, plus you'll likely have problems. I got rid of them and moved to pre-made….so much easier.

          I didn't have a clue how to install camera's etc, but all the information you need is out there and if I can figure it out just about anyone can I reckon.

          It's the same thing here in Perth with security company's trying to rip people off. The house behind me was broken into about 6 months ago. The owners paid $9,000 for ADT security to come out and install 4 Hik cams and a monitored alarm - what a crap job they did too. The camera at the front door is right at the end of the eave/gutter and faces back to the front door, so you can just casually walk up the path to the door and cover it on your way past without being seen.

          I nearly died when they told me the price and I told them to cancel the install and I'll do it for them, but it was too late to get out of the contract.

          Greedy businesses cashing in on customers desperation to feel more secure.

    • bob smith on 05/09/2016 - 11:53

      Great recommendations, can you advise which hikvision model to get and where from? I've read that Chinese versions will lock out if you update firmware.

      • tight-ass on 05/09/2016 - 12:32
        +1

        Have a read of some (not all) of the whirlpool thread I linked above. They make many different models and nearly all of them are really good - the ones I have now and listed above are probably obsolete already.

        You're best bet is ordering one of the turret style cameras like this - http://imgur.com/kl2O1qT
        Just make sure it's PoE and be sure to stipulate what size lens you want if it's an option.

        Avoid the dome style one's like this as the night vision won't be as good as you'll get the IR's bouncing back off the cover - http://imgur.com/SQXFaa1

        As for which version - I've always just grabbed one that said it was english. There's also never a need to update the firmware on these camera's

        • bob smith on 05/09/2016 - 13:20

          Thanks, planning to purchase about 6 x turret cameras and NVR. Will have a read of the thread.

  • GLO on 06/04/2017 - 22:52

    I know this is an old thread but its still relevant.

    Has anyone used a NAS for storage for their NVR and done away with a PC for processing?

  • Pominoz18 on 22/06/2018 - 23:28

    @tight-ass

    I literally joined to get some tips on a 2 storey install. Do you route the cables through/inside the double brick wall or conduit on the outside. I’m due to attempt my install with 4-5 cameras but cable routing is my only hang-up. I appreciate any advice

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