Hi all,
Let's say that you have roughly $25k - $30k to spend on cars, which type of car would you choose?
A brand new/Demo car that has all the latest technologies, features, warranty and you're gonna be the first owner.(eg. Kia Optima, Mazda 6, …)
A used fancy German car that has better drive and performance, though the maintenance aren't cheap and may lack some technology.
A boring but reliable car that can last (Corolla, Camry)
Please vote and express your opinion.
reduced to $30k :)
All three.
Demo car for the missus
Used old luxury car for me
Anything that lasts for the kids (though, >$10k)
$80,000
Haha, I would spend $80k on cars if I don't have anything else to spend on…
you need:
1. a Girlfriend
2. work for westpac
Solid investment portfolio right there.
.3. parents that buy you everything
can confirm. a girlfriend is indeed an investment with a high yield.
edit: ok she's gone now. what car we getting?
I had to open this thread just to find this comment and LIKE :D
I'd say try hit up the auctions you can get some cheap ex-demos and government cars for a good price if you are not to fussed on what you drive
I have seen a guy who got his 9 yrs old Audi S5 with low km for only $20k from Auction. He was lucky as the car was a stolen recovered but run and drives perfectly.
Btw when u start buying cars older than 5 years, RMS (for NSW anyways) starts demanding vehicle inspections. Just something to keep in mind.
Whilst this is true, vehicle inspections only cost $50-75 a year. This is peanuts to what German spare parts can cost
More an inconvenience than anything else. And yeah, headrest for my MB cost $1200… And it had nothing special about it. But the prev owner paid for it so meh.
@pete2:
For sure ! I've seen it advertised as low as $25. My mechanic doesn't charge much and I do it when I get my regular servicing done.
I'm sceptical of places that advertise really low pink slip inspections as they may find a lot of things that need "fixing". As someone who isn't very car savvy I'd rather pay for an honest opinion.
My point was that the cost of of the pink slip shouldn't deter people buying a car more than 5 years old.
No, no ,no! Definitely don't go to the auctions and look to buy luxury cars a few years old! I really don't want any more competition in this space…
What auctions are these? greys, pickles etc?
I found pickles prices to be quite high. With the exception of recovered and repossessed vehicles (I only check the luxury section) most of the cars have a reserve value above market rate.
And the big risk of auctions is the condition of the car. Having examined a few pre-auction, they were poorly maintained (logbook) or had physical signs of neglect.
I'd rather buy from enthusiast forums any day of the week.
To answer OPs question, anything but demo vehicle. Those things are priced at what new cars can be negotiated down to, and has been abused to buggery.
This time 100!!!!!
I'm surprised at the number of people who prefer demo car to used… it is absolutely insane how people just associate KM to condition of a car blindly… why would anyone want a car that has spent its short life and breakin time with the harshest conditions? And that at crazy prices.
This is OzBargain, so the answers you get might be a little biased - but I'll pick the used (but in good condition) practical & reliable car every time.
Never have and probably never will buy a car brand new off the lot - have never seen the value for money in doing this. Used luxury cars can be nice, but as you mention the maintenance & part costs are killer.
For me, a car is for getting you from A to B. Any extra luxuries are pointless.
I would buy the car depending on the use. Is this first car or a second one for weekend drive? Do u you need 4-5 seats or will 2 do? Also what do you term as a fancy German car? Porche 911, BMW M3 or VW Golf GTI?
ask the 21 year old going for a 80K car.
he knows the go.
ayy
For some reason it bothers me to see P platers driving (what i call) luxury cars. Is it because of the generous parents or finance companies … or both. How can they run these on student pensions?
Parents $$
They take out loans and the bank knows they can make a heap of interest off them cause they're Stupid so they'll approve $50k loans to them.
Just got their licence back for DUI maybe?
:)
Always parents.
A finance company won't touch an 18 year old with an 80k loan.
I got my P plates at 21, I did well for myself and bought a Audi A4 brand new at 23, but people like you got jealous and keyed my car and slashed my tires while I was buying groceries and left the note that said "(profanity) you leecher, go ask daddy for another one".
That's just awful, but please note most definitely NOT people like me; any slime-bag that keys ANY car, slashes ANY tyres etc, deserves some time in the slammer. My mother experienced the same nastiness, for no apparent reason when she purchased her last new car.
I am not jealous, but perhaps envious of your alacrity; I did not mean any offence by my comments. I did not buy my first car until I was 22. I left home at 17, moved close to the city, and worked earning pitiful junior wages for four years, without being able to save much at all, just to live rather frugally. I returned home for a short period, finally could afford those driving lessons, saved and bought a used 72 Celica. Believe you me that car meant as much to me as your Audi (good choice) meant to you; first cars usually do.
I do know of parents that buy their children new cars, which is why I often wonder when I see some very young people driving luxury vehicles. My brother bought his (4) children their first cars but they were not new.
@JediJan: I apologise for misunderstanding your comment, thanks for sharing that story with me, it's comforting to know others share the same experiences as I do, it's really annoying how there are people out there who automatically judge someone young driving anything above 50K as a product of someone from a rich family and therefore does something bad out of jealousy, I only had the car for 2 weeks too at the time of this happening. Ever since then, I remove my Ps everytime I park to avoid this sort of thing happening, and so far so good.
@Authenticus: Not a problem. There are some total ratbags out there. I came out of a shop once to find a guy sitting on the hood of the car (wearing jeans with the metal studs). Now, would he have done that to muscle toned giant? He did move off without a word but you have to wonder at that. Fortunately no damage. He could have sat on his own car surely!
Parents who have spent up to $250K on private school education are not going to balk at the cost of a luxury car to protect their investment. Sometimes it's a hand me down. I've heard that sometimes the luxury car is offered a graduation present if the child achieves the desired academic results.
Not every P plater is a student.
Some are working full time, and still live at home. So they can make some decent money, and not have to pay bills, rent or a home loan. Their lifestyle gives them the illusion that they can afford an expensive luxury car - but a lot of people fail to see how much they actually cost in the long run when factoring in depreciation.
A friend of mine purchased a brand new Audi S3 ($70k+) with a loan, a couple of years ago when he was 24 (so not exaxtly a P plater). In my opinion, it's a stupid move, especially considering the cars value has already dropped close to $20k. When you consider how much these luxury cars depeciate, you're essentially paying close to $10k for the privilege of driving the car.
in a lot of these threads, if you have to ask, then its not for you
If you have a used Corolla or even used Mazda 3 or Suzuki Swift or something then this is probalby the ozbb way.
You have minimised your spend and risk.
A new car $25-$30k car should have everything that opens and shuts. eg. a Mazda 3 SP25 is a decent car that has warranty reliability style and is 'near luxury'.
If you want to buy a $25k 2nd hand luxury car then you need to research and be prepared for the upkeep.
If you are, then you've outgrown this place.
I don't think upkeep is really that bad on 2nd hand luxury cars. Sure, the parts are going to cost you more but with this connected world, you could probably source them yourself online for a fraction of the price. Also, if it is beyond the warranty period, you can avoid the expensive services from the brand name garage and just find a reputable mechanic who can service it for standard fees.
We have had Mercedes BMW and Audis. I respectfully disagree. The upkeep IS there as is the random $800 and $1,000 plus bill.
These cars are all serviced by independent mechanics but even so, 'specialists' here cost more than your avg. Ford Holden Toyota mechanic.
I'll give you an example. The battery in my V8 Commodore is a $100 special.
The battery in our Mercedes E class is a $300+ high cca model.
By any measure the Mercedes has exponentially more upkeep than my Commodore, this should surprise no one.
My Commodore is a $40,000 car new, the Mercedes $120,000.
Exactly right. I had a BMW 330i for a few years. Great car, but the fact remained that the original owner paid $100k for the car, and buying new replacement parts was expensive.
$300+ for a Mercedes battery is not so bad when you consider I had to pay over $200 for one for a jolly Holden Vectra (New Years Day too so I had a long wait until one was found)!
If you are a true Ozb then 2nd hand parts are just part of the challenge. I used to have an old Porsche. The price of parts from the normal channels was terrifying so I bought all my parts off eBay for literally 90% less than the Porsche suppliers. I was buying licenced Porsche parts, still in the packaging from US suppliers on eBay for 90% less than local shops. I remember once needing Gas Struts for the bonnet & hatch. Porsche parts wanted over $200 per strut, eBay guy from Florida wanted $15 per strut, still in the Porsche packaging. Postage was $50 but still way cheaper for 4 struts from him!
Now that is what I am talking about. It is all about the amount of effort you are willing to put in to save and not be ripped off. In this country we pay more for almost everything than everywhere else in the world. It is all about avoiding the Australia tax.
The only problem with doing it that way is if you need the parts in a hurry to keep the car on the road.
I never full rely on the Mercedes.
Its just not there. IMO you shouldnt rely on such as car as your ONLY transport. We have two other cars besides and will probably add a 4th soon.
@JIMB0: Yep, that is true. In my case, I don't really drive my car much, relying on public transport to and from work. Added to which my partner has a car so can deal with waiting for parts to be delivered.
Euro parts after cheap these days. Overseas websites can sell parts cheaper than local Holden Ford parts.
I'm just here coz people just expect me to comment :P
Looks like you have some fanbois that will upvote you just for showing up.
It's just a vote, relax.
Why would you assume I am not relaxed? I am Australian man, that is my normal state. Magic internet points mean nothing. If I cared I would make a heap of fake accounts and vote the crap out of everything.
@Spackbace:
fight, fight, fight, fight, round 1 go….
(this better not turn into a Mayweather hugging match)
@Kangal: Nothing like the odd little fricasee to get into the right frame of mood for the upcoming silly season.
People still think that Australians are relaxed? I've been here 36 years and are yet to see one. You are the most uptight, stressed nation on earth.
And you have millions of rules for everything.
I can give positives to every poll option, a lot of deciding factors in why people go for each one
Looks should be your first priority and safety should be last imo. Buy new and sell it after 1800km
1800…?
Sounds high yield…
I would be reluctant to buy a car with such low kms. The seller would have to have a pretty good reason as to why they are selling. I would be too suspicious; like buying a car from a dealer that insists one elderly female driver who only drove it to church. I would rather spend the extra dosh on a new model … although that also comes with risk these days.
Sell after a month of driving? Lol
i bought my current car (ford focus) was 2 years old i think, had 1700kms on it!
Still got it 3 years later, only got 15,000kms :)
I don't drive much!
Lol.
I knew a friends dad that would not take his car out if it rained; his wife had to walk to the shops. Hope that is not you 😅
@JediJan: haha, nah not me. No i drive my car quite a bit… but i live close to the city, and close to the beach, so i never really have to drive that far.
Lots of trips to bunnings at least anyway :)
I had a 335i used I got for about 30k. Not cheap for the age but boy it was a blast to drive, esp with the DME tune. The catch with buying a 120k car for 30k is that the parts aren't discounted and are still that of a 120k car. If you're prepared for the upkeep they can be enjoyable but it depends what you're going for.
I was going to go this route…. but at the end of the day, you're just paying for the Brand.
I guess its worth getting a BMW 335i if you want to have nice profile photos, and plan to use it as a psusy magnet.
Otherwise, why not get a Subaru Liberty Spec B instead?
Or a Honda Accord Euro?
Or a nice Holden SV6?
Or a Toyota Aurion Sportivo?
Or the new Mazda 6?
Nope
Google N54 and MHD flasher
Nope.
At the end of the day, its a $120k car at a discount with the support of a $120k car.
It's not an M3, or a GT-R though.
More like a sedan that's fast/fun, with lots of luxury.
Not much different than a Golf R (though hatchback)
You can still get a sedan that's fast-fun with a different badge.
That was my entire point.
They will also match and surpass the quality (but maybe not in terms of luxury).
So at the end of the day… what you really pay for, the difference is, the Brand.
@Kangal: with any other bimmer I'd agree but this particular gem you get a whole lot more fun for not much outlay at all.
If your simply after an a-b car then there's a lot more choices then that. I had a good run with my EJ8 civic l which I had nearly 15 years
A 335i with N54 is a blast to drive. Am too scared to test the water with it's known turbo and wastegate and waterpump issues. Else I'd go buy a 2007-2008 in a jiffy!
I have a 135i with the N55 engine - helluva lot of fun. Though I hear the new B55 (in the 140i/240i) is pretty awesome. 250kw - close to M2 territory.
@bluesix: gonna ping you via messages :P
Edit: well looks like I can't pm you :)
I was just looking for 135i around SE QLD this afternoon. Have you driven a N54? Could you compare the N54 with a N55? Everyone I talk to says N54 problems were all fixed via the recall and I shouldn't worry about it.
From the readings, N55 Auto box is pretty smooth as well, would come handy for traffic, but, am a manual person…. :|
What kind of upkeep costs you have? Just the usual in parts and wear I suppose?
@shadowarrior:
Haven't driven the N54 unfort so can't comment. I heard they had problems as well but I think BMW was onto it fairly quickly. I drive my 135 once a week to work in Sydney traffic - it's great for all traffic. Once you're on a freeway, flick it into Sport and it opens up, a whole other animal - so much fun. I have the DCT gearbox (M Sport setup) - it's crazy fast.
It's for sale if you're interested: http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/BMW-135i-2010/SSE…
Upkeep is pretty reasonable (it's my first BMW, coming from a Subi) - once a year service, around $300-400 - still under 30K km's though. About the same as the Forester.
I'll see what the deal is with my PM
@bluesix: That's a nice looking 135, and such low kms!! And awesome numberplates :) Am after a non convertible though :|
Which car are you replacing your 135 with? I imagine it will be hard to find a replacement for the 'fun to drive' factor the 135 gives you. Good luck with your sale.
@shadowarrior: Fully loaded Audi S3 [2017]. I'd prefer an RS3, but they're just over $90K - too rich for me. Slightly less kW than the 135 (217 vs 225), but stage 1 mod will get it to 294kW.
C'mon, you need to have a convertible on the GC! ;)
You are certainly paying for the brand here. Most euro cars are absurdly overpriced in Oz, and this extends to the second hand market as well.
If they'd open up the grey market imports sanely prices would crash - but of course there's zero chance of that happening.
No one ever paid $120k for a 335i
E93 335
Yeah no one ever paid that.
I lease new cars now but I smash car dealers for low prices. I literally call every dealer in town and play them all off against each other. I do the same with the lease finance guys, playing them off for the lowest rate. When guys struggling to make their monthly target are walking away from the deal at multiple dealerships…and when I am getting offered deals 10-20% cheaper than the lease guy's 'wholesale' price, only then do I start taking things seriously.
Forget any and all of the generalisations people speak about. I concentrate on things like retained value and depreciation. I currently drive one of the worst depreciating brands in Australia….Volvo. I drive this as the depreciation is normally calculated based on the RRP. I paid something like 30% less than RRP for my car brand new…not demo, brand new, end of year runout at the end of the month and end of FY. My retained value against predicted used car bvalues should be OK. If I based my decisions on accepted norms I would be driving a Subaru because 'Volvos lose their value…don't buy a volvo', because my starting price was already well into the depreciation curve I'll still come out ahead.
When I bought I had Volvo dealers in 2 states trying to beat each other, 2 tried to sell me the same car from inventory at different prices. One dealer offered me a better deal, I agreed and paid a deposit then he tried the bait and switch and when I went to complete the deal he told me there had been a terrible mistake and the car I bought was already sold….not to worry though as he had another car, next model down with less options that had been a demo with 5K on the clock for the same price. Sneaky sod, I demanded my deposit back and walked away. In the end someone that had laughed at my price and turned me down flat called me back around the end of the month and begrudgingly accepted my price but only if I committed on the spot…which I did.
Buy the car you like but do your research. I once bought an old Porsche through a Novated Lease. Worked great, leases are designed to accommodate a large depreciation in value with little maintenance as most cars are new. My old Porsche was the opposite, it actually appreciated in value (not by much) over the 4 years I had it. All of the expensive maintenance was paid for out of pre-tax money. At the end of the lease after i sold the car to another enthusiast I walked away with a big tax free lump sum!
I will never buy a Camry or Corolla, no disrespect to those that do but personally…life is too short!
Interesting perspective, thank you for the valuable contribution!
The problem is that at the end of the day, you're driving a Volvo. If you have a liking for 'non mainstream' type cars then you're golden.
Eg. Peugeot Citroen Renault are prime for the taking if you like what they're selling but its easy to see why most people flock to the major brands.
Dont get me wrong, I dont hate Volvos, I actually do like the V8 XC90s etc. but if you're not mainstream and like that, then you have a lot of buying power.
Come spend a few hours in Cremorne/Neutral bay… every 5th/6th car is a Volvo XC60/90!
Must be all the soccer mums…
I actually like them… just a little out of my price range unfortunately.
This is an interesting approach. It would be appreciated that you could tell me a bit more.
Did you lease the car through your employer? What kind of rates you get? At the end of the lease, do you buy the car or return it?
Thanks a lot
I buy cars va a novated lease through my employer. Depending on your employer there may be restrictions on your choice of financier and ability to shop around. I once had a major fight with one of the big lease companies. They insisted on using their own finance but my employer had a clause in their agreement that employees were able to source their own finance if we could achieve a better rate. This was hidden in one of those font size 2 conditions on the agreement and i am sure that i was the only employee ever to exercise my right. In the end I was able to source a rate 1.25% better than the lease company. The lease company were furious and I gained some notoriety through the process, so much so that i spent weeks answering calls from all over australia from other employees wanting to copy my lead.
Essentially my take is that the lease guys cover their costs with the maintenance fees they charge on the lease. They make their $$ on a margin built into the finance rate and the commissions they make on all the insurances they charge you hidden in the lease. They get away with it because they sell 'convenience' to people. Their pitch is basically "I can get you a shiny new car for about the same as you would pay for a clapped out 2nd hand car. I can do this because there is a load of complicated tax stuff that allows you to get away with it. We will look after all the complicated tax things so you can just drive your new car'. If you buy the convenience, like all other convenience products, they sting you in the tail for it. One of the leases I was offered had 4 insurance policies built in, one of the insurances i was going to be paying for was to protect the insurance company in case I went bankrupt and they seized my car, sold it auction and the sale price was less than what I owed, the insurance policy I was paying for would cover this. I promptly told them this was their risk not mine and I wouldn't pay, they just said OK and rolled over, I am probably the only person ever to find out and challenge them!
The lease rate you get is normally locked in for the period of the lease so if you lease when rates are low (right now!!) your rate is locked in for the period of the ease, even if market rates go up. I would have to get my leases out to work out the rates i signed up for a couple of years ago.
The 'residual' you need to pay at the end of the lease is calculated using a tax office formula. Like all of these formulae it is based on assumptions. Generally they assume fleet buyers are buying falcadores brand new and getting rid of them after 3-4 years. It assumes a commensurate rate of depreciation. Of course not all cars depreciate at the same rate and if you buy a car that depreciates faster you will end up with a shortfall when you sell the car. If you are clever you can get a car that depreciates slower than the assumptions and you can sell it for more than the residual at the end of the lease. I normally do exactly this, I sell the car at the end of the lease for a few thousand dollars more than my residual and I keep the difference. Normally I start trying to sell the car 6 months out from the end of the lease to avoid being pressured into a sale as the lease runs out.
There arent any leases I know of where you can 'return' the car. People ask me this question all the time. You can trade it in on another car and the caryard pays out the lease company but you arent allowed to own any equity in the new car. this means that you couldnt use part of the value of your trade to reduce the cost of the new car.
Thank you for the reply. Learn few things here.
I have tried your method but the best I can get is %15-20% discount with my VW GTI and later BMW 3 series. I believe the 30% discount only works for Volvo retailer, am I right?
$25K to $35K is a big range.