Open Discussion - Is It Valid for These 2 Negative Vote?

dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 17:39

guys, i have ask permission to moderator about open discussion in the forum for 2 negative vote that i received on
my orignal post http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/27354

i got two negative vote, based on two below comments

bob19 on 21/06/2010 - 03:04 ¶
$69.95 set up cost, 12 months subscription, and the craziest thing: Speed reduced to 256kbps at all times if you exceed 20GB usage for ADSL2+ and 10GB usage for ADSL broadband in peak time.
In other words: it’s only 20 Gb pick time and it will be unlimited off pick ONLY if you don’t exceed 20Gb during pick time. Otherwise it will be shaped to a very slow speed. And the off pick is only 6 hours a day from 6 am to 12pm!
So, it’s really quite deceiving…
This offer certainly doesn’t come even close to TPG!
Doesn’t look like a bargain to me at all.

my argument to this
dragonrabit 22 hours 59 min ago ¶
neil, as my example to him, if he need more peak download allowance in the first place, this product is too obvious is not suitable for him in the first place.
example you got $20k budget to buy a car. it doesn’t matter what brand is it, what you want is bang for you buck, isn’t it? thats mean quality of the car and very good value of money on your $20k.

now, someone said, i prefer paying $10k extra so i can get more better value of money. what do you think? if you have $30k in the first place, this $20k car market is not for you in the first place, isn’t it? that is my point.

surely, you don’t want me put on every single of my post
“WARNING, this deal only for people with budget $XX only!!!”

ozhunter on 21/06/2010 - 06:14 ¶
I agree, not a bargain. And for ADSL customers, you only get 10GB/month to use from 12pm-6am, before it gets shaped. That’s on average 333mb/day within 12pm-6am(which myself and probably alot of other people use most of their bandwidth)

my response
the second person (ozhunter),he also missed the point. i am talking about adsl2+, he/she is talking about adsl.

and i got another response
neil 22 hours 32 min ago ¶
What if one car has better gas mileage but the other has better cornering? Surely there are other factors involved in such a variable service. Also, take hypothetically, if there was a TPG plan that was 1 cent more expensive than AAPT’s but offered more download usage. Or 50 cents, $1. I have no idea as its subjective.

dragonrabit 22 hours 21 min ago ¶
the point neil,
first, what do you need first? need more download in the peak hours, surely this is not a product for him.
secondly, if you are willing to pay more, surely you are at different type of market already.

if you read my example about 5 car seat and 7 car seat. if you need 7 car seat in the first place and you come to the car dealer that only selling 5 car seat. then you are complaining about that 5 car seat features , because the feature doesn’t suit his family needs. who is wrong in the first place? the car dealer that selling 5 car seat only? or this customer?

dragonrabit 57 min ago ¶
to answer your question about 1 cent. i believe you know about rounding rule right? we can round this cents to the nearest dollar
, in that case. if tpg got the price $40.01 and they got better download, i have to say yes tpg got better value of money.
but for different $10 - $20 more = 20% - 50% more. you can’t compare that is equivalent mate.

what do you think guys? are these two negative vote are valid?

General Discussion

closed Comments

  • andy19363 on 23/06/2010 - 17:55

    Without reading all this…….clearly they are valid as they are still standing…..

    presumably a mod would have removed them otherwise…

    • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 18:46

      because mods can't make up their mind,thats one of the reason i posted in here.
      i guess no point we have the rule of voting.

      if you don't have valid reason to vote negative on certain post, the orignal post that got negative vote
      will feel there is no point posting the deal anymore. coz people don't appreaciate the post.
      as people vote without any based at all.

      and if the moderator can't make up the mind, so what is the point having moderator in the forum?

      • andy19363 on 23/06/2010 - 18:59

        but….they have made up their mind…..the post has already been heavily edited……the negs are still there.

        in the big scheme of things it really doesn't matter…..

        • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 19:03

          i guess, if u can't make proper opinion, its better u don't make any comment. i just want the forum opinion if this is
          a valid negative vote with proper reason. not open debate for something else.

          the neg still there because mod can not make up their mind, i hope you understand this word right?

          • andy19363 on 23/06/2010 - 19:05

            @dragonrabit:

            i hope you understand this word right?

            which word??…….Disgruntled?

            • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 19:07

              @andy19363: i guess, u just make this thread becoming long and long and long.

  • AntMan76 on 23/06/2010 - 18:12
    +2

    Everyone who posts deals will get a neg either for an invalid reason or simply for a difference of opinion.

    I wouldn't worry about it. It's life.

    • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 18:47

      if the opinion is valid, thats okay, but if the opinion is not related with the post. i disagree.

      • Mikinoz on 23/06/2010 - 19:12
        +2

        Its not about pushing your point until people agree with you, youve asked for mods to take action let them. Just a lesson i have learnt along the way ;)

        • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 19:25

          i am not pushing people agree with me, the point in here, people vote based on something not related with my post.

          i have asking to the poster to find me a better deal with the current market. none of them got response. why?

          the fact is this plan is the best deal so far on the market. if they found something better than this plan. i will accept their
          negative vote.

          how come you comparing bmw 3 and kia rio? are you out of your mind?
          they are totally two different products for two different type of market. surely.

          • Mikinoz on 23/06/2010 - 19:33

            @dragonrabit: Not disagreeing with your logic, just wondering whats driving you so hard its not such a big issue.

            • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 19:36
              -1

              @Mikinoz: forget it, you don't follow my logic in the first place, you just make this thread longer.
              don't want waste my time

              • Mikinoz on 23/06/2010 - 19:42

                @dragonrabit: So again my previous point is valid if you dont agree you just rant. Why waste mine and other users time by having such a pointless post, honestly dont take it personally and man up my friend!

                • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 19:43

                  @Mikinoz: because you are not discussing about the topic, you just open another topic. thats is the point

                  i ask you one question, then you ask me another question. you don't answer the first question. if i answer you question
                  then no one answer my question.

                  • andy19363 on 23/06/2010 - 19:48

                    @dragonrabit: well, I've already answered it twice, but….one more for luck…..

                    YES, the votes are valid

                  • Mikinoz on 23/06/2010 - 19:49

                    @dragonrabit: To be fair you answered your own question

                    how come you comparing bmw 3 and kia rio? are you out of your mind?
                    they are totally two different products for two different type of market. surely.

                    Thats the only question i could find?

                    is that what yo meant ? i dont mean to offend but i am trying to follow

                  • ash on 23/06/2010 - 19:56
                    +1

                    @dragonrabit: you ask for people's opinion and yet you don't accept it when its different to yours.

                    All they are saying is people have different value, what is a bargain to you is not bargain to everyone. What seems logical to you is based on your own preception, and not everyone else .

                    You value the word "Unlimited offpeak" , people dont see the value in that with only 10/20GB peak downloads. Its just a matter of opinion - this is a open forum and people are entitled to their own.

                    And the way you are reacting is not doing you any favors.. I would follow antman76's advice - "I wouldn’t worry about it. It’s life."

                    • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 20:00

                      @ash: thats my point, the post about unlimited off peak, and he need peak unlimited.
                      how can u vote negative on this post?

                      • ash on 23/06/2010 - 20:09

                        @dragonrabit: Again its very subjective. You asked how can someone vote neg on your post, while the person who voted neg against you might think " how can anyone vote positive??"

                        And if it were such a good deal people would vote on it. 2 Negs aside, so far there is only 3 positive votes, so, yah… I wouldn't worry about it mate.

                • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 19:50

                  @Mikinoz: example i post something said 1 + 1 = 2
                  then someone said i am wrong, the correct answer is 3
                  so i ask this person, how u got 3, then they give me answer 4-1 = 3
                  are we using the right formula?

                  i ask the moderator, moderator said well, i can not said it is correct or not. because it is not in my position said it is 2 or 3

                  then i said if you have to use the same formula a + b
                  and a = 1
                  b =1
                  a and b is constant variable.
                  how on earth you got 3

                  am i missing something?

                  allright, may be moderator is not really good in math. make sense.

                  so i am trying to get answer from the forum. may be i got professor that expert than me that can explain to me
                  how that person can get 3.

                  anyone?

                  • Mikinoz on 23/06/2010 - 19:59

                    @dragonrabit: Have to give you credit for the example, actually made sense.

                    The point i have is moderaters are here as far as i understand to stop people being offensive etc, to pick the truth from a lie is probably a very grey area as with technology etc we know it can change.

                    Something to consider is we have to accept how this site is run and moderated and give input by having a point of view like yours which i respect.

                    Anyway you have some great posts etc so kep up the good work

  • Trance N Dance on 23/06/2010 - 19:14

    Why so defensive about 2 neg votes? Sure you can't post again for 5 days, but after that it's back to normal. And the bargains here are for the community to decide not you and only you, if 2 people find it to not be a bargain, then so be it, you got unlucky, move on, that's life. If the mods cannot find a reason to justify removing the neg then the neg is legitamate and should stand.

    • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 19:19

      my point is if that vote based on valid reason, i won't argue like this. the first person comparing two different products.
      the second person vote based on something that i didn't post it.
      who these two vote can be valid vote? and mods still can't make up their mind. this is something that i don't and i can't understand.
      what is the point having moderator in the first place?

  • chloden on 23/06/2010 - 20:05

    If you don't like it don't post anymore. I used to put what I considered to be bargains on here because this is a sharing community. I have found heaps of bargains on here so I figure it is only fair to share. But I have to say it is just not worth it, people don't just give negative votes they make stupid comments that serve no purpose. So as I said just don't post anymore, it will be every one else's loss and they can thank they people that come to this website to ruin it.

    • ash on 23/06/2010 - 20:11

      yes, listen to this man/woman. You'll be a lot happier.

    • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 20:47

      hahahaha. i guess the problem came from the moderator, if the moderator functioning properly, they know what they have to do

      • Trance N Dance on 23/06/2010 - 21:17
        +1

        was that directly dissing the mods?

        • neil on 23/06/2010 - 21:40
          +1

          As a moderator, our role is follow guidelines such as removing spam, removing neg votes with no comments but it's not our role (IMO) to decide on subjective issues. The users made a long argument, to justify their negative vote and we'd rather not make calls on subjective issues.

          There has been talk of a feature letting the community to vote off a negative vote, thus putting the power back into the community (and less work for mods, hopefully). At the end of the day, I wouldn't take the negative votes so personally. It's not a dig at you, it's a dig at the deal.

          • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 22:02

            @neil: neil, the main reason people can argue with long and long and long, because the rule is not clear. if you want make it short argument, create the rule, so no loop hole on it.

            as i have update my post. so if you read my post again, what do you think? did his comment still relevant with my post? off course not.

            have you been to bangkok? or any other asian countries where the traffic was so chaos? why so chaos? because no one follow the rule? and the police most of the time just ignoring that situation, coz they don't know what is the solution on it.

            so the chaos because of 2 things
            1. no rule has been setup
            2. has the rule, but no one follow the rule

            in this case, i guess because no 1. therefore the mods don't know what to do.

            you put the power back to community, if the no rule has been setup. it just make another chaos.

            if you have a company, you need setup a rule, so every one that working in your company know what to do. if no rule inside the company. everyone can claim they are right. no accountable at all when there is an error.

            get it?

            • cwongtech on 23/06/2010 - 22:10
              +1

              @dragonrabit: "or any other asian countries where the traffic was so chaos? why so chaos?"

              Learn some English Grammar! Please!
              Too bad this isn't Bangkok, if you go to your post office.. it says Australia Post for a reason.

              "you put the power back to community. if the no rule has been setup. it just make another chaos."
              Dude you heard of democracy? Don't you know that is what governs this country (okay yeah so there is a little covering up in the news) and the community is what helps this site run.

              "in this case, i guess because no 1. therefore the mods don’t know what to do."
              The mods don't know what to do? I'd say the mods should put you in the penalty bin for using trashy arguments to imply they're useless!

              "if you have a company, you need setup a rule, so every one that working in your company know what to do."
              Is this a company? It's a bargain-sharing community!

              "get it?"
              Do you? Don't diss the mods, prove yourself worthy of becoming one by being mature and taking it like a man! Or a woman if you are one.
              The mods have been very reasonable, from my experience, you just got to explain things clearly, set your arguments out with proper grammar, heck, even the FOBs I know can do much better than you.

            • neil on 23/06/2010 - 22:53
              +3

              @dragonrabit: You want a clear rule that can be applied to all deals right? That's fine, then what would it be, other than agree with dragonrabit?

              I can't speak for other mods but my decision is that its not my place to decide this. You have opened this discussion and you can see that there is some dissent with this. You are saying 1+1=2 but it's not as clear as that. It doesn't matter anyway as you have already made your mind up. Anyway, we could have a new prime minister tomorrow, perhaps we can get KRudd on the team here.

              • cwongtech on 23/06/2010 - 22:59

                @neil: I bet he's going to say that all deals posted can't be negged without a valid reason! And the validity is determined by one smart kid who can't even spell rabbit right: dragonrabit

                • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 23:07

                  @cwongtech: i did in purpose. what is ur issue, if i want to change my nickname become cwongtech-idiot , do you have any issue with that nickname?

                  • neil on 23/06/2010 - 23:11
                    +2

                    @dragonrabit: Cmon guys, let's keep it civil.

                    • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 23:22

                      @neil: its winter time, need something to warm up his head. :)

  • Trance N Dance on 23/06/2010 - 21:17
    +1

    How about you just let it slide and chillax. It's only two negative votes.

  • ozhunter on 23/06/2010 - 21:48
    +2

    So if there is a 1TB hard drive for $80, and a 1.5TB for $85, your saying I'm not allowed to compare? It doesn't have to be the exact amount or the peak time to be exactly the same.

    Also you had wrote about adsl in your description, which is to what i was referring to.

    Can't believe you get so worked up about 2 negs.

    • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 22:59

      in this case i have to said no. why? because people got budget $80, you ask extra $5, if they don't have this extra $5, what this person has to do?

      this is what marketing said segmentation. certain product suit for certain people. if you got extra money and willing to pay extra money in the first place, you are not looking this $80 in the first place.

      have u ever bought a property? if you got budget $500k in the first place, why on earth you are go hunting to the area where the average house price 150k?
      yes you find a bargain if in that average 500k area, you got a property in average condition around that area.
      when you go to auction, you can see some people stop bidding, why? because they got budget.

      • ozhunter on 24/06/2010 - 00:29

        Am i allowed to compare it with TPG $39.99 deal or exetel $40 deal, or is it you who decides how much the difference can be?

        Comparing it with buying a house for 150k more than you can afford is a bit different don't you think. I believe some people can spare a few dollars more for much better value.

        No other company has the all the EXACT same off-peak and on peak time frame, shaping speeds, and price that AAPT does. That doesn't make that AAPT the best deal ever.

        Couple other people put negs, but didn't explain y, but they knew it wasn't a bargain, they just couldn't be bothered to explain. Only had 3 positives at the time. Why you may ask? Because everyone knows there are better deals out there.

  • infernal_max on 23/06/2010 - 21:54
    +2

    This is pretty embarrassing to read, im getting the idea you cant take responsibility for your own actions. If others dont find it a bargain, leave it to them to miss out. And if you feel hard done by if you are banned for posting for 5 days (i wouldnt know) perhaps a better tactic would be to speak to the mods about loosening the rules to include more negs before you get banned for posting rather than just two.

    I will tell you this, that as a retail manager, if a customer blamed me verbally for a problem they have, rather than approach me proactively, im less likely to help them as I or in this case the mods, did nothing to you and your taking pot shots at them for your issues.

    • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 22:26
      -2

      thats is not the case mate. the issue in here is, no clear rule on the voting.

  • cwongtech on 23/06/2010 - 22:01
    +1

    Kids these days =]
    Fails of that "bargain" post:
    1. Why so much Caps letters at the start? Hurts my eyes!
    2. "PLEASE BE AWARE, THIS IS NOT ON EVERY EXCHANGE.", in comparison with TPG exchanges, all of them are capable of their non-unlimited plans
    3. 6 hours offpeak of unlim internet. I max out for ADSL2+ at 1MB/s, usually with rapidshare (free) (200KB/s), megaupload (300KB/s), and I don't use torrents, but when I do, I know it can go up to 500KB/s.

    At 300KB/s…
    2 seconds = 600KB
    1 min = 18mb
    60 mins or 1 hour = 1.08GB
    1.5 hours (see below for reasons why I have listed 1.5) = 1.62GB
    6 hours = 6.48GB

    Question is: How often does someone actually manage to chain up 300KB/s for 6 hours straight non-stop?

    From rapidshare premium, I can get 1MB per second, but the thing is, I pay $100 a year for RS premium to get those speeds

    From everywhere else, it's 300KB/s, plus usually 1 minute - 2 minute waiting time

    Also, have you ever considered people have daytime JOBS, high school students need to go to school, usually, people will start their day at 7:30 or even earlier for travel, heard of the phrase working "9 to 5"? That basically reduces the offpeak time from 6am to 12pm, to a realistic 6am to 7:30am.

    1. Setup fee for such a low-priced plan, that's 1.75 x of the monthly payments!

    2. "A generous 20GB download limit at other times" (12pm - 6am), would you really sacrifice 40GB (10GB onpeak, 30GB offpeak, TPG $40 plan), for a realistic 1.5 hours of usage time, if you're in high school or you have a job?
      In other words, only mothers (they know jack about technology, and borrowing things off the internet) and little kids will benefit a little out of this plan. It's not a bargain unless you're a kid or a mother.

    • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 22:25
      -2

      why use caps lock? because many people hate to read the fine print. so make it bigger, so everyone can read it first.

      how often u can download 1 GB / hour. very often.
      check it below
      peak off peak
      01:36, 09 Jun 2010 01:38:46 0.000 1284.238
      03:14, 09 Jun 2010 00:01:20 0.000 0.000
      03:16, 09 Jun 2010 06:50:19 0.008 649.158
      10:07, 09 Jun 2010 01:06:36 80.093 0.000
      11:30, 09 Jun 2010 02:06:05 28.607 0.000
      13:37, 09 Jun 2010 10:14:42 198.123 0.000
      23:52, 09 Jun 2010 10:29:57 65.631 9258.224

      i am not just using rapidshare only, i can use megaupload etc at the same times. so you can utilized the idle time. and using jdownloader, you don't have waiting in front of your computer all the time. + torrent as well, but torrent at night is very slow.

      I am confuse with your point no 2.
      here is the fact
      AAPT $40 plan:
      1. peak time is 12 pm-6am = 20 GB
      2. off peak is 6am - 12 pm = unlimited

      tpg $40 plan:
      1. peak is 8 am - 2 am = 20 GB
      2. off peak is 2 am - 8 am = 20 GB

      so tpg also only 1.5 hrs usage time.

      the post has said very clear unlimited off peak. this is design for people that looking off peak hours and able to download unlimited.

      read my other example about 5 car seat and 7 car seat. then you understand if this post is relevant to you or not in the first place.

      • cwongtech on 23/06/2010 - 22:39

        "why use caps lock? because many people hate to read the fine print. so make it bigger, so everyone can read it first." - Dude, on a computer, the text here is black on white, there's no need to caps your letters, you only need to capslock when your text is miniaturized to shun the reader's attention away from the "deal"

        "read my other example about 5 car seat and 7 car seat. then you understand if this post is relevant to you or not in the first place."
        First apples and oranges, now car seats? Are you actually serious?

        Point 2 modified to “A generous 20GB download limit at other times” (12pm - 6am), there is a realistic 1.5 hours of usage time, if you’re in high school or you have a job? In other words, only mothers (they know jack about technology, and borrowing things off the internet) and little kids will benefit a little out of this plan. It’s not a bargain unless you’re a kid or a mother."
        The modified argument and the lack of research, will weaken my viewpoint, but point 1, and the fact in point 2 that you can't use the 6am-12pm offpeak unlimited window well still remains.

        With TPG's plan, you can sleep earlier and wake up earlier and use the offpeak, with AAPT's plan you can't!

        • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 22:46
          -2

          if u really after the download, you just need setup your pc on. i don't think some people wake up early in the morning morning just to utilize their off peak allowance. this off peak surely design for people who love to download in the first place.

          so people sleep 6pm at night then they wake up 2 am in the morning just to utilize their off peak. you must be joking right? hahahaha

          • cwongtech on 23/06/2010 - 22:54

            @dragonrabit: "i don’t think some people wake up early in the morning morning just to utilize their off peak allowance. this off peak surely design for people who love to download in the first place."
            "morning morning", nice grammar in the morning!
            "so people sleep 6pm at night then they wake up 2 am in the morning just to utilize their off peak. you must be joking right? hahahaha"
            People will sleep at 9pm, then wake up at 4 or 5 to do it, I know a couple of people that alternatively, stay up to 2am, set their downloads then wake up at 8 to turn it off (she's a uni friend)
            Thing is, you can't set your downloads and turn them off at a specific time.
            Why do you keep using the word "design"?
            "Target" would be a more appropriate alternative.
            Whatever, I'll leave you to rant to the wall, like everyone else has done, have fun kiddo.
            I'm enjoying my TPG 120GB plan for $60 a month (will upgrade when I can be bothered.. hardly use 10GB)
            Also, I wonder what you're downloading..?
            I doubt you will have heaps of legit, unpirated, or borrowed content from the internet to take advantage of such a "bargain".

            • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 23:06

              @cwongtech: is it your business what i download everyday?

              again, you force me to accept your friend situation. in fact not everyone has similar situation like your friend has to wake up certain time etc.

              if she know how utilized window features, she doesn't need to do all this stuff. i am sorry to your univ friend.

              what words that i wanna use, do you have any issue?

              do i care what plan do you have with tpg? not really, coz start is not relevant with this topic. and do i care u wanna waste your money. who care.

              • cwongtech on 23/06/2010 - 23:15
                +1

                @dragonrabit: "is it your business what i download everyday?"
                Oh, crap! Step back!
                Big boy, rapidshare and megaupload both use timers if you're a free user.

                "again, you force me to accept your friend situation. in fact not everyone has similar situation like your friend has to wake up certain time etc."
                Hey, I've had it with your apples and oranges too.
                And your other pointless example of five seater vehicles and seven seater vehicles.

                "if she know how utilized window features, she doesn’t need to do all this stuff. i am sorry to your univ friend." Windows features? Downloading? Hah.

                "what words that i wanna use, do you have any issue?"
                Easy, easy, keyboard warrior.. no need to get angry, just that the way you type, reminds me of a child wanting attention.

                "do i care what plan do you have with tpg? not really, coz start is not relevant with this topic. and do i care u wanna waste your money. who care."
                If you didn't care about others wasting money, then why would you share such an awesome "bargain"? Or are you trying for the OzBargain Prize, and you're fuming mad because you can't get this week's prize?

                See you now Big Boy!

                • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 23:21

                  @cwongtech: so why are you responding to this post in the fist place? you must be another boy that doesn't have something to do right now.

  • Doey21 on 23/06/2010 - 22:37
    +3

    People post their bargains here to share the love…you on the other hand seem to just want a pat on the back.

    Well i'll say it on everyone's behalf…good on ya…we're all so proud of you.

    If people want to disagree, then who cares? Its their loss? Why would u take a negative so…negatively? Cheer up kid and have a sticker for your good work.

  • andy19363 on 23/06/2010 - 23:09
    +3

    ahh, mr or mrs rabit…. I'm now hoping that you are just trolling for fun……..cos if you're not, some people might consider you as being quite, quite mad….

    • dragonrabit on 23/06/2010 - 23:19

      hahahaa. i let u know when all this done.

  • scotty on 24/06/2010 - 00:49
    +4

    I do not think this post should have been here.

    Moderators' decisions are final, and there is no need for them to give reasons. Not only that, it is a community forum and from the look of it the community has already decided what the outcome would be.

    Thread closed.

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