POLL on OzB's AliExpress deal Restriction (Do we really need "Nanny OzB" protection OR is AE's Buyer Protection enough?)

IVI on 24/11/2016 - 11:13
Last edited 24/11/2016 - 11:16

I've had only good experiences with my dealings with AliExpress.

(Yes, 1 phone went missing, but I was compensated for the $ loss)

OzB has erected an undue barrier to inclusion (IMO), & I think we
should pushback, to get this anti-competitive barrier removed.

How many OzB Member BUYERS have "demanded" such a barrier
against very competitive pricing? Few I would suggest.

How many Aussie vendors would have pressured OzB to add it?
I would guess Lots. (Anyone know?)

Note: You can Skip "all these words" & jump to the Pull, below,
to make your Opinion known on this matter.

Yes, I had a Deal slashed for its vendor not (yet) having had 500 (!)
Reviews, of at least (some arbitrary # of high %) scores.

IMO, most OzB member Buyers are Adults, able to decide for
the, selves how much risk they want to take.

OzB has No Issue with deals for, RateSetter.com.au…
Do they have 500 reviews? I doubt it.

AloExpress has a "Buyer Protection" mechanicsm the Works.

Yes, it takes time (just as it takes time to receive goods), but
we should be free to choose who we are prepared to deal
with, WITHOUT "Nanny State" like interference from OzB.

—- from my earlier post on this topic:
How many new -Aussie- vendors can meet the current "500 reviews" criterion?

Look, why not create an AliExpress forum or a more generic "Below Risk Threshhold" forum.

AliExpress has "Buyer Protection" second to none, in my experience, unlike some AU-based vendors.

Eg, I've had to correspond over 10x with MegaBuys (or similar) to finally get the last ~$20 of
my Requested Full-Refund, over a month, & these guys are Kosher for OzB deals…
(They offered, but could not supply stock!)

Boosting their cash-flow at our expense… But OK on OzB - why? - because they're in AU?

Let OzB members - most of whom are Adults - decide for themselves if a deal is "too risky"

Eg, have extra text - in red, big fonts, bold, etc. - appear at top of AliExpress deals.

Meanwhile, just move my "Mother doesn't think you should take that risk, Sonny" Deal to General discussions.

It shouldn't cost me extra time (again) to offer a good deal like this.
, moving it about. And if mods can't be bothered doing ,then make
It easy for us to shift it, eg, with a "Too naughty for Deals" button
With your choice of text.

This anti-AliExpress discrimination is inoroate, & I assume OzB
Is getting pressured by Aussie vendors to make it hard for such
Deals to compete with locals.

HOW MANY USERS HAVE DEMANDED SUCH MISTREATMENT (IMO)
OF ALIEXPRESS DEALS? Not many I would suggest.

End of my earlier post

Your comments?

Poll Options

  • 106
    AliExpress vendors must (as now) have achieved 500 reviews above OzB's Threshhold % level
  • 59
    I am quite able to decide for myself who to deal with. Without OzB's involvement
  • 10
    Member-submitted AliExpress Deals should NOT be treated any differently than any others
  • 0
    AliExpress deals deserves a Forum category of its own (or a generic one, eg: "At your own Risk")
Site Discussion

Comments

  • Moderatorneil on 24/11/2016 - 11:26

    The Aliexpress posting guidelines were created due to a number of postings in 2015 where people had issues/counterfeit products. For example Yongnuo YN600EX-R Flash for Canon US $66.36 or US $60.16) @ AliExpress which had 0 feedback. More feedback here

    Based on community feedback and to be in line with the ebay posting guidelines, we created a very minimum of guidelines for Aliexpress deals:

    • 80% feedback + min number of
    • 500 feedback for non-rep deals.

    Please feel free to give your feedback below. If the community want changes, then we can discuss what those might be.

    • scrambledeggs on 24/11/2016 - 11:37
      +11

      I'm happy with the existing system. Works great.

    • IVI on 24/11/2016 - 11:38
      -7

      If the community want change…

      How do they get the chance to read my call for pushback,
      when my Essay & Poll are BANNED from publication?

      :-/

      • Moderatorneil on 24/11/2016 - 11:39

        Not sure I understand. This thread is public and people can vote.

        • IVI on 24/11/2016 - 11:42

          It told me there was a problem with a field, &
          Talk w/ Site Admin.

          Poll's Expiry date was red (sugg'd No Expory was unlawful here.

        • Moderatorneil on 24/11/2016 - 11:48

          @IVI:

          Not sure. Send a screenshot in your current TWAM post.

        • IVI on 24/11/2016 - 11:55

          @neil: it's long gone…

    • Clear on 24/11/2016 - 11:44

      500 feedback for non-rep deals.

      Is this for the product itself or the seller? There were a lot of bargain s I couldn't post in Singles' Day because of this.

      • Moderatorneil on 24/11/2016 - 11:47

        Seller.

      • Moderatorhamza23 on 24/11/2016 - 13:23

        We need to keep the 80% minimum feedback, that's already very generous. If we are comparing to eBay then you need at least 96-97% to become a top rated seller.

        However do you/others think reducing the feedback number to say 100 would be better? Is 100 feedback with at least 80% positive enough requirement without restricting too many deals?

        • Clear on 24/11/2016 - 15:17
          +1

          I think 100 is too generous. 200-300 would probably be fine for a trial.

      • supersabroso on 25/11/2016 - 13:33

        Exactly, there was a huge deal for the A119 $80 or so and the Yi Home Camera 2 for $97 after cashback prices. There are record low prices protected by Aliexpresses second to none buyer protection. I couldn't post either of them because they only had a hundred reviews at 95% positive feedback.

        For popular items like this, there really sould be no blocking.

        • Moderatorneil on 25/11/2016 - 13:36

          The system needs a set of parameters to allow/block. Do you have a link to the above product?

        • supersabroso on 25/11/2016 - 13:44

          @neil: At the time I think it was about 100 reviews for the A119 seller and 300 reviews for the Yi Home Camera 2 seller.

          This is where they are currently sitting:
          A119 136 feedback, 98.6%
          Link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/VIOFO-A119-1440P-30fps-2-inc…

          Yi Home Camera 2 - 542 feecback, 98.4% positive
          Link : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Yi-Home-Camera-2-1080P-FHD-S…

          A better rules would be more like 50 feedback scores and 95% positive. I don't think I've ever bought from a seller with less than 95% positive feedback.

        • Moderatorneil on 25/11/2016 - 13:56

          @supersabroso:

          Thanks. I wonder if taking into account the age of the account might be prudent? For example an account that is only 2 weeks old and has a feedback leads me to believe its probably fake as items can take a month or longer to be shipped.

          E.G.

          • 100 feedback (to be statistically significant).
          • Account older than 1 month.
          • <95% positive.
        • supersabroso on 25/11/2016 - 14:34

          @neil: I like those rules, far less deals will be missed whilst still protecting the community. The average time is about a month to Australia so 1 month is a pretty good rule.

    • rawm on 25/11/2016 - 13:07

      As someone who posts a fair few AliExpress deals for the community, I'd be more inclined to go less than 500 feedback score (~250) and let the community decide if it gets some votes but am pretty happy with the guidelines overall. The % feedback at 80+ is sensible.

    • Moderatorneil on 24/11/2016 - 11:38

      For your personal issues, please use TWAM.

    • scrambledeggs on 24/11/2016 - 11:38
      +23

      You are pretty entitled. You're moaning an awful lot about free advertising. OzBargain doesn't owe you anything.

      • IVI on 24/11/2016 - 11:46
        -8

        Well, it owes us & the vendors whose deal we choose to submit
        FAIRNESS, IMO.

        A USERS' time posting deals is a non-renewable resource

        An eBay-like companies like AliExpress
        who manage an excellent Buyer Protection prog
        do not deserve 2nd class status, IMO.

        Do eBay deals suffer the same antiCompetitive bans on OzB?

        • Moderatorneil on 24/11/2016 - 11:49

          eBay Posting Guidelines

        • Moderatorneil on 24/11/2016 - 12:23

          @IVI:

          You didn't include a link to the product or seller (posted a picture). I've had a look and I think this is the item you want to post.

          If that is the one, the seller has feedback of 44 with 97.8% then it doesn't meet the threshold for Aliexpress.

          The forums are not meant to be a mechanism to bypass the site guidelines so it won't be moved to the forums. I would however look around Aliexpress to see if there are other more trustworthy sellers that selling that USB cable.

        • spackbace on 24/11/2016 - 12:30
          +1

          @neil:

          US$0.93 (~AU$1.26) here for a reputable store

          (or US$0.91 via the app)

      • supersabroso on 25/11/2016 - 14:01
        +3

        Agreed, this is appalling. OzBargain is a community helping each other to save money on products that they would like to purchase.

        Be friendly, you haven't paid one cent and no promises were made to you. Your suggestions would be far more welcome if you didn't act like you carried this place on your back for 50 years.

        The mods see there is an issue here with aliexpress and they are listening. We don't want the site to be flooded with deals where cables are 5c cheaper than the last nor deals that end up in refunds r us regardless of how good aliexpresses buyer protection is.

    • spackbace on 24/11/2016 - 12:00
      +1

      These cables & others' fav cheap "novelty" products
      make nice gifts.

      It's a $1 micro-usb cable, do you really think that can't be found elsewhere?!

      • IVI on 24/11/2016 - 12:09
        -7

        I found one for Au$ 0.92 so, of course.

        But it's existence has been hidden by OzB's 500-rule, so who will know to seek it out?

        Protectionism - not helping OzB buyers, but local vendors, who might want ~$5 or $10 for each.

        Maybe that's what you meant by "elsewhere"

        • Miss B on 26/11/2016 - 10:00
          +1

          Find the cheapest that meets the guideline. Other posters mention in their post another seller that doesn't meet the guideline but is cheaper , along with a warning that it doesn't meet the guideline, up to buyers if they want to risk it and a link. It just can't be the main deal link or in the title.

  • spackbace on 24/11/2016 - 11:56
    +18

    Current policies are fine.

  • Baysew on 24/11/2016 - 12:02
    +10

    Note: You can Skip "all these words" & jump to the Pull(sic), below,
    to make your Opinion known on this matter.

    How can I vote to keep things the same if your crooked poll doesn't give this option?

  • iridiumstem on 24/11/2016 - 12:22
    +3

    Ozbargain has similair rule on what can be posted from eBay, so I don't understand why the rules on Aliexpress is considered "anti-Aliexpress".

  • dazweeja on 24/11/2016 - 14:10
    +1

    If there's issues with a particular seller marketplace, rules/guidelines will be created to protect the community. This might mean a minimum criteria or it might mean outright banning. In this case - and in the case of eBay - it's the former.

    I think some of your issues related to this, "I assume OzB Is getting pressured by Aussie vendors to make it hard for such Deals to compete with locals". Yet you seem to have no evidence of this?

    The current rules are just fine.

  • tassieeagle on 24/11/2016 - 14:42
    +13

    I tried to read your post but the formatting was horrendous. Lucky I read Neil's explanation at the top and was able to decipher what the topic was. Current policy seems pretty fair

    • lainey13 on 25/11/2016 - 11:00
      +3

      Agree, it is very hard to care when you can't understand what the issue the OP is having a beef about.

  • altomic on 24/11/2016 - 15:24
    +6

    I've posted a few deals from aliexpress , have made 500+ orders with them and am an advocate for aliexpress as a great market place. I'm satisfied with the current posting guidelines.

    An easy work around is to post the next cheapest by a seller who meets the guidelines, and then include a link to the seller with the cheaper price with a comment stating why that seller wasn't listed as the primary seller e.g. "please note seller has less than 500 feedback but 360 @ 92%. And there are 100 feedback for this particular item which report great satisfaction and no reports that the product is not genuine"

    Whilst we are adults it has to be admitted that some of us have the purchase impulse/mentality of children.

  • gjk on 25/11/2016 - 07:49
    -1

    Can we introduce a new tag in title heading similar to 'targeted'? A caution tag or a box of matches to indicate your playing with fire? Agree that ozbargain shouldn't censor deals but has responsibility to educate community about the risks. An additional tag would flag for most to keep on reading…

  • Seraphin7 on 25/11/2016 - 08:58
    +2

    Interesting one here. My immediate reaction is that we're all adults and therefore should be able to make our own decisions without someone else trying to protect me from myself. That said, I can appreciate the site not being bombarded with rubbish that means the genuinely good deals are hard to find.

  • Hogg on 25/11/2016 - 12:25
    +4

    That was very difficult to read and decipher.

    Current guidelines seem fine. Rather not be bombarded.

  • noshopping on 25/11/2016 - 13:15

    Out of 100 purchases, had a few that were dodgey/never delivered, but the worst has got to be dhgate. Lots of sellers are dodgey on there. By the time you receive the product, the return period is gone.

  • Scrooge McDuck on 25/11/2016 - 13:17
    +5

    Your comments?

    tl;dr

  • aussieprepper on 25/11/2016 - 13:40
    +2

    Aliexpress buyers protection is way better then eBay and PayPal. Never ever had an issue with Aliexpress if I needed help.

    I have bought heaps from them if some thing is fake they will refund you 100% of the purchase price no questions asked.

  • SingMeASong on 25/11/2016 - 14:43

    Out of the 100's of orders and $1000's AUD I've done through AE, only 2 have ever needed to be escalated to AE buyer protection team and all resulted in my money being returned. There has been another 2-3 orders where the seller and I came to a private arrangement for refund (full or partial) or another item was sent.

    It can be a bit hit and miss with some sellers.

    I think the 500 reviews requirement is a bit high for some of the items that would sell quite well here. Maybe 200-300 reviews would be more suitable.

  • misu p on 25/11/2016 - 15:00

    I am sorry but I have to raise another problem… my comments have been banned for a lot less than this post. The entire post is basically a rant with accusations or just innuendos, or just bloody questions where he answers without any proof or fact… But when I call somebody that is obviously a moron "a moron" my post gets banned.

    I understand that OzB does not want to look like it promotes censorship… but really?? we have to read this??

    • Moderatorneil on 25/11/2016 - 16:09

      A bit off-topic but here are the Commenting Guidelines.

      Calling someone a moron = Personal Attack
      Ranting/Accusing about how OzBargain is run or moderated = Not a Personal Attack.

      Happy to promote censorship when it comes to personal attacks and name calling.

      For matters regarding your account, it's best to use the Talk with a Moderator Forum.

      • misu p on 25/11/2016 - 16:42
        +1

        Sorry, sarcasm is very hard to convey through writing.

        I am happy for you to promote censorship too… especially in this case. My point was just close this shit poll, tell him to go relax, to stop with the unfounded (I believe) accusations, to raise a proper issue with normal language in English if possible. The issue itself is valid and it is something that should be discussed, of course everybody votes "leave it" just because of the "essay" (his words no mine) above.

        And of course this post was a personal attack, he called you guys corrupt, trying to censor him the rest of the community noobs. It is just like me calling a group of 5 people thieves. It is obviously a personal attack although I did not call any individual a thief. I am happy to be banned in that situation, as it was a personal attack.

  • stonkered on 26/11/2016 - 06:54

    Very restrictive poll options, the ironing :p

  • Gershom on 26/11/2016 - 09:01

    How is OzB stopping you from shopping at Ali? Just go and do it. Why do you care if they're not endorsed? Aren't you adult enough to make your own decisions?

  • spackbace on 01/12/2016 - 12:32

    Nice to see that OP was so passionate about this crusade, that he replied to questions about a resolution

    /s

    • IVI on 14/12/2016 - 09:21

      In hindsight, I feel the BEST resolution is
      INDIVIDUAL Op-In (or Opt-Out) of OzB Nanny-Care

      But - in a country where most Schools require
      students to wear the School's Uniform - I'd
      guess most MODs' mindsets would be "All or None,"
      ie, "No INDIVIDUAL Choice for You, OzB Members!"

      :-)

      • spackbace on 14/12/2016 - 09:27

        11 days later I get a reply…

        Enough said really

        • IVI on 14/12/2016 - 09:32

          Not until we can each choose what works best for us, IMO.

          I apologize for not thinking of the "Opt In" solution,
          in time for its inclusion in the Poll. My Bad…

        • spackbace on 14/12/2016 - 09:48

          @IVI:

          You're an infrequent poster complaining about the site rules. Rules that were changed anyway due to this post, yet you still complain? Wtf?

  • Moderatorhamza23 on 10/12/2016 - 02:53

    Just to follow up on this, we've changed the AliExpress requirements to 'min 100 number of feedback, and score > 95%' instead of the previous 'min 500 number of feedback, and score > 80%'

    Thanks to those commenters who provided feedback and suggestions. As always let us know if there are any issues or suggestions with the new guidelines.

    • IVI on 14/12/2016 - 09:24

      See?

      It's the Aussie "All of None" mentality inherent in the OzB web app.

      No "Opt Out" of "OzB Nanny-Care" …yet.

      • spackbace on 14/12/2016 - 09:48

        So wait, they change the rules but you're still complaining?
        Wow

  • bobjane on 30/12/2016 - 18:49

    In my experience AE's buyer protection is a joke.

    I bought a USB hub that arrived faulty, doesn't recognize any USB drives and windows shows an unrecognized device in device manager.

    The seller communicated with me until I uploaded video evidence as they requested, then the seller disappeared.

    Then Aliexpress looked at the case and decided that I'd proven the hub doesn't work but failed to prove that it can't transfer files… not sure what kind of logic that is.

    Judgement? Either send the $9 item back to China (at my expense of $20-30) for a full $9 refund or accept a $4 partial refund for something that doesn't work.

    Also you can't leave feedback for a seller once you've raised a dispute on the transaction. An obvious manipulation of feedback to make AE seem safer than it actually is.

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