Purchased House with existing fixed term lease - Want to move in

stirlo on 01/02/2017 - 09:59
Last edited 01/02/2017 - 12:27

My Partner and I have just purchased our first home in Victoria. :) Unfortunately the previous owner had signed a 12 month lease agreement with their tenants only 3 months ago. We would like to move into the house before this lease runs out but from a brief look at the tenancies act it seems like this would not be possible without their consent. We would save over $150 per week living in the house rather than continuing to rent while waiting for the tenancy to end. The rent they are paying is also around 10% less than comparable properties in the area so we are losing potential returns there as well.

How can I get the tenants to move out early?
Are their any legal options I may not have thought of?
Any Ozbargainers been in this situation before? If so what did you do?

EDIT 1: Just to be clear I knew and accepted the property was under lease when I purchased and worst case I accept I just have to wait 9 months. That said I am particularly interested in any responses to my last question. "Any Ozbargainers been in this situation before? If so what did you do?" I don't want to be too unfair to the tenants but would really like them to move out early.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • JimB on 01/02/2017 - 10:12
    +20

    First of all, congrats.

    You can give them an incentive to move out, that may mean financially reimbursing them. But if they say no, then there's nothing that you can do.

    It was part of the section 32 and your solicitor should have made you aware of the implications of the fixed lease.

    • Cyphar on 02/02/2017 - 15:42
      +1

      Ofcourse it depends on the state, but here in VIC, I was under the impression that you can inform the tenants you wish to move in but you need to give 120 days notice to do so.

      • JimB on 02/02/2017 - 15:44
        +8

        You're correct, But only applies (90days I think) if the tenants aren't on a fixed lease, otherwise, what's the point of a fixed lease.

      • sweefu on 01/02/2017 - 11:02
        +51

        And doing this is pretty scummy to the tenants.

        You're a renter now, how would like to be treated?

        • resubaehtgnolhcs on 01/02/2017 - 11:17
          +42

          It's also incredibly frustrating to buy "your new home" and have to wait 9 months to move in.

          Why is it frustrating? You would have known (or should have known) about the tenants before you made your purchase.

        • resubaehtgnolhcs on 01/02/2017 - 11:23
          +44

          @stirlo: But you knew what you were getting yourself in to! Or as it seems on here, maybe you thought it doesn't matter that there are tenants, as you will be able to get rid of them by forcing them out. How wrong you were - maybe this is the source of your frustration?

        • sweefu on 01/02/2017 - 11:30
          +37

          @stirlo:

          The price you paid for the house would have reflected the fact that it was not vacant possession.

        • MrMcHairyHead on 01/02/2017 - 12:38
          +13

          @stirlo: Are you kidding me? It's not like you didn't know there was a renter when you bought it.

        • Tech5 on 01/02/2017 - 19:44
          +12

          @stirlo:

          Well you decided you liked the house more than you disliked the fact it already had tenants. Deal with it

        • [Deactivated] on 01/02/2017 - 22:49
          +7

          @stirlo: It's good for sale price if you're an investor hoping to keep it rented out. But that's not what you are. You see all those negative votes next to your name? That's a sign of how many people think that you're an idiot for buying a property knowing too well that there are tenants inside but you still feel frustrated about that and would be willing to be a dick to them to get them out.

        • sparkles on 02/02/2017 - 13:17
          +6

          @stirlo: There is only one troll here and it's name is stirlo.

        • Cyphar on 02/02/2017 - 15:44
          +1

          @stirlo:

          Surely you knew the house was tenanted and for how long before you bought though, right? Otherwise, you're an idiot for not doing your research. I sympathized with you until you made the uneducated idea of increasing rent to such a level as to be unaffordable.

        • stirlo on 02/02/2017 - 17:12
          -2

          @Cyphar: I was replying to a poster above who suggested it was possible to increase the rent. They were wrong. Idea would be a good one for me if it were legal. It's not so it won't and can't happen. A more timid person would have just edited the post to remove the controversial part.

        • jackary on 04/02/2017 - 19:51
          +2

          @stirlo: You're pathetic to the core and I hope some kind of electrical fire causes the house to burn down before you spend a single God damn night in it. God that was so worth it for a weekend in the penalty box, honestly screw you you unscrupulous piece of shit

        • illz on 07/02/2017 - 11:57

          @jackary:

          YES!

      • Gronk on 01/02/2017 - 11:12
        +11

        Thanks, Any reason why we couldn't increase the rent substantially (double it?) to force them out?

        It's a bit of a dick move to even consider doing that, but no you can't increase the rent during a fixed term lease agreement.

        There are a number of reasons for which you can instruct a tenant to vacate your rented property, but except for extenuating circumstances such as criminal activity, most only apply outside a fixed term tenancy.

        Your best option here is to reach out to the tenant and ask if they would be willing to work with you to vacate the property before the end of the lease, you never know they might be amicable to that idea, but I think being up front is your best approach here.

        You'd have been fully aware that the property had tenants before you bought it, so you knew what you were getting yourself into before you committed to the purchase.

        • stirlo on 01/02/2017 - 11:14

          Yeah I guess they might want to move earlier if they're told in no uncertain terms their lease will not be extended and they're offered assistance/no lease break costs.

        • stumo on 04/02/2017 - 10:07
          +1

          @stirlo:
          LOL the tenants aren't breaking the lease, YOU ARE. The tenant won't be saving any "lease break" costs.

          When our LL wanted to end our fixed lease 3 months early, we got them to pay us 6 weeks rent as compensation. The only way you can force them is to go to vcat and you would need to have extenuating circumstances, very extenuating.

      • MrMcHairyHead on 01/02/2017 - 11:42
        +18

        Because it would be a scum, lowlife, completely indecent thing to do?

        • [Deactivated] on 01/02/2017 - 12:07
          +11

          on top of being illegal.

    • JimB on 01/02/2017 - 10:42
      +31

      You can't increase the rent during a fixed term lease.

      • stirlo on 01/02/2017 - 13:04
        +3

        Thanks for letting me know, seems the poster I replied to had it wrong.

      • [Deactivated] on 01/02/2017 - 20:32
        +1

        depends on state JB1, you can increase it with adequate notice and reasons for the increase
        I know some states do not allow it but NSW does allow it from reading tenant law books

      • matt_will_fix_it on 02/02/2017 - 15:31

        You can't increase the rent during a fixed term lease.

        Actually you can in SA - check out below

        https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/housing/renting-and-letting/ren…

        • JimB on 02/02/2017 - 15:39

          As per your link.

          Increasing the rent in fixed term agreements

          Rent can only be increased:

          • if it’s included as a condition in the agreement, usually by writing that the rent may be increased during the agrement and how it will be worked out – eg according to CPI.
          • when the lease is going to be extended, but only if it’s been 12 months since the agreement started, or when the rent was last increased.

          So in this case no.

        • matt_will_fix_it on 02/02/2017 - 15:51
          -3

          @JB1:

          You don't know what was in the lease - it may have said 6 monthly rent reviews. So in this case, quite possibly.

        • JimB on 02/02/2017 - 16:22
          +1

          @matt_will_fix_it:

          'quite possibly'? it's a residential house, not a commercial property.

          Anyway, pointless to continue this conversation.

  • cypher67 on 01/02/2017 - 10:50
    +4

    All the cards are stacked in favour of the tenant. Unless you can prove they are doing something that is violation of the agreement like having a dog when it state no pets or they are not keeping the house in desired condition, the contact will remain valid unless both parties agree to terminate. You also cant increase rent during a lease period, that the whole idea of a lease, an agreed price for a fixed period of time.

    Your best bet is to offer to pay for the tenants to move, or give them 4 weeks rent free to find a new place and move out. But if they say no, you cant really do anything about it. As previously pointed out, you would have had to agree to the current contract when you purchased the place.

  • Flow220 on 01/02/2017 - 10:51
    +43

    Try to put yourself in your tenants' position and imagine how you would feel if you are asked to move out like that. (moving sucks!)

    In your case, you can't increase rent, you can't force them to move out, all you could do is asking them nicely and provide them with some financial reimbursements and hope they say yes. If they don't want to move out for any reason (which is perfectly reasonable for them, because they've done nothing wrong), just wait 9 months.

  • Hellfire on 01/02/2017 - 10:51
    +14

    They have every right to stay there until the end of the leave and no, you can't increase the rent during that time.

    As a previous poster said, offer them an incentive to move out. Once you make it clear that you will not extend the lease then they will probably be more likey to accept. Examples might be to pay for their removalists, refund their bond in full, pay for professional cleaning yourself, pay for the first 2 weeks at their new place, etc.

    • stirlo on 01/02/2017 - 13:03
      +2

      Thanks for this advice.

    • Gronk on 01/02/2017 - 11:20
      +2

      Possible, but you'd need to be able to prove that there were additional beds present for at least 2 consecutive rental inspections (or something along those lines), in Victoria those inspections must be at least 6 months apart so even that won't be a quick option.

      Maybe ask your agent if they have photos from the last rental inspection they performed? If the spare beds are there then maybe you're onto something, because otherwise they could just argue that they have family visiting from out of town or something along those lines.

      • stirlo on 01/02/2017 - 11:53
        +1

        Thanks for the advice, I was very reluctant to pursue this option and it seems like it's not just morally questionable but also extremely difficult. Once again looks like I'll just have to wait it out or try to come to an arrangement with them.

        • jackary on 04/02/2017 - 19:59

          It's not just morally questionable, it would be enough to keep a regular human up at night. It's disgusting.

          5 beds does not mean 5 tenants. Take all the photos you like you bloody muppet, unless you witness five PEOPLE there on a regular basis then it's just another (deservedly) dead end

          Source: Housemate works for tenancy authority.

  • onetwothreefour on 01/02/2017 - 11:40
    +83

    This week on Landlords From Hell: a new owner has taken over a property and will do anything to kick the current tenants out which includes substantially increasing the rent and punishing them for letting friends stay at their place. Stay tuned to see how low he will go.

      • sweefu on 01/02/2017 - 11:49
        +42

        You're missing what everyone is saying.

        You're not coming here asking advice on how to deal with tenants illegally subletting, you're here looking for advice on how to ignore your tenants rights and kick them out of their home.

        There is no credibility to your argument that they have too many people living in the house.

        • adante on 01/02/2017 - 13:35
          +5

          the 'pub test' for me is: if hypothetically you did NOT want to move in early, would you still be upset with the subletting enough to attempt to evict them and face a potential loss of income (while new tenants are found etc)

          If so, then it seems like a legitimate reason to evict them - you would have done it anyway. If not however, then you are effectively using the sublet as a technicality to get what you want. This is arguably a bit of a dick move.

          It is something of an academic pub test as it's hard to objectively answer.

        • TheBird on 01/02/2017 - 23:22
          +3

          @stirlo: Not every breach allows for termination of an agreement/contract/lease.

        • nikey2k27 on 03/02/2017 - 08:01

          @stirlo: paid them out or wait them out it easy way i had has (profanity) landlord like this. if you go talk to them might move for you. be nice about it. I move for landlord who want place to move into him self just real nice and ask me.

  • shangoz on 01/02/2017 - 12:02

    Don't do anything until lease out, you still collect good rent as extra income anyway, you can always find some two bedroom unit for this 9-10 months period, don't forget even the move out, you still need 1 to 4 weeks for cleanup and renovation.

    • stirlo on 01/02/2017 - 12:13
      -2

      It's not a massive issue to sit it out. But I do pay $150 per week more rent than if I lived there so there is a financial cost. Luckily I don't need a new place live immediately and can continue to reside where I am until they move out.

      • shangoz on 01/02/2017 - 12:18
        +3

        Australia just a small population country, you need to build more friendship not create more enemy, one day the tenant might become your good friend and also, one day when you invest one more property, they can be target tenant too.

      • [Deactivated] on 01/02/2017 - 12:36

        Were you planning on breaking your lease at your current place to move into your new property?

        • stirlo on 01/02/2017 - 12:38

          No currently on month to month lease. I hate fixed terms… Even more so now :P

      • matt_will_fix_it on 02/02/2017 - 07:21
        +7

        Have you taken into consideration the tax deductions you can make? E.g. interest, depreciation, repairs? If there are repairs needed then better to do them now.

        • macrocephalic on 02/02/2017 - 11:21
          +1

          Yes, this is actually a pretty good situation. Think of all the upgrades you can do to the home, and write them all off against your taxable income while the tenant is still there.

          If you want to be an arsehole about it, then having tradesmen coming and going all the time will likely encourage them to leave early.

        • froodh on 03/02/2017 - 12:44
          +2

          @macrocephalic:

          I would expect the tenant would have the right to refuse entry to tradesmen doing any work unless is "emergency repairs"

  • kolorijo on 01/02/2017 - 12:06
    +1

    Surely you would be made aware of the tenancy agreement when you inspect and communicate with the real estate agent, and again when you communicate with your solicitor when doing your due diligence? Surely you would have consider it before you go ahead and purchased the property?

    Take up some responsibility and go on with your life.

    For the illegal subletting, you might want to follow it up with the leasing agent and if it's true then it is within your right to do whatever you are legally entitled to.

    • stirlo on 01/02/2017 - 12:18
      -6

      When I posted this I was hoping for responses more along the line of my last question "Any Ozbargainers been in this situation before? If so what did you do?"

      But being a member here for nearly 10 years I should probably have known this would quickly turn on me.

      • onetwothreefour on 01/02/2017 - 12:27
        +10

        People gave you advice based on your questions in the OP but it quickly became apparent that there was more to the questions than you originally disclosed.

      • snook on 01/02/2017 - 13:09
        +26

        I think what has turned on you is that you're not a very nice person, and it shows.

      • Gronk on 01/02/2017 - 14:54
        +7

        When I posted this I was hoping for responses more along the line of my last question "Any Ozbargainers been in this situation before? If so what did you do?"

        Well, no, you weren't -

        Like so many others you came here with the intent of finding a technicality which you could use to your own benefit with little consideration to others around you. This seems to be what Ozbargain has become of late.

        • stirlo on 01/02/2017 - 15:56
          -8

          Well duh, If there was technicality I'd expect ozbargain members to know it. It's hardly a new thing. 7 years ago… https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/32316

          But I'd also expect them to have useful information even if there was no technicality. I'm happy to pay compensation to them for moving costs etc. But I think it's only reasonable for people to understand I want to live in my new house and save the almost $6000 ($150pw x40 weeks) of extra rent I'd pay while the lease is running.

          These tenants have lived there for more than a year so it's not like evicting someone who just moved in. When the owner puts for sale signs up you should probably start thinking your future isn't very secure. The comments up the top with a bunch of people being like buyer beware are (profanity) stupid. I knew this was the situation before purchasing I'm just trying to find something that works for everyone.

        • phocus on 01/02/2017 - 16:54
          +19

          @stirlo:

          But I think it's only reasonable for people to understand I want to live in my new house and save the almost $6000 ($150pw x40 weeks) of extra rent I'd pay while the lease is running.

          I think its only reasonable that you understand that you knew what you signed up for and respect the conditions of your purchase.

          I knew this was the situation before purchasing I'm just trying to find something that works for everyone.

          You are looking for something that benefits yourself and only yourself. We can see straight through your intentions from your other posts. Quit the BS

        • Gronk on 01/02/2017 - 18:43
          +6

          @stirlo:

          Well duh, If there was technicality I'd expect ozbargain members to know it. It's hardly a new thing. 7 years ago… https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/32316

          Hacking a competition to win free chocolate bars from a multinational company vs trying to find a loophole to evict tenants who are legally living in your property because you're too impatient for the lease to expire - yup, those 2 issues are totally the same. There are no issues with your moral compass whatsoever /sarcasm.

        • cantoangel on 02/02/2017 - 07:59
          +5

          @stirlo:
          These tenants have lived there for more than a year so it's not like evicting someone who just moved in.

          As an ex-renter personally the longer I stayed, the more it felt like home.

          When the owner puts for sale signs up you should probably start thinking your future isn't very secure.

          Yes that's true, except when you sign a 12 month lease

  • tomleonhart on 01/02/2017 - 12:38
    +4

    I've been in this situation before. Bought a place when the fixed term agreement was in place.

    What i did? Since we're renting on periodic agreement and they had 10 months left on their lease, I asked the landlord for another 6 months fixed term lease.

    When my 6 months lease ran out, my tenant had 3 months left on their agreement. When that was up, We just basically gave our tenants 30 days notice to move out and at the same time gave my landlord at the time my estimate day to vacate his property. We made sure it was 1 week apart so that my house was vacant prior to us having to move out.

    • stirlo on 01/02/2017 - 12:48

      Sounds like a smart idea. Thanks for the response.

      Did you attempt to negotiate with the tenant to leave earlier? Or just accepted that you'd need to wait 10 months? I'm interested in what kind of incentives landlords offer tenants to move out early as it looks like that's what I'll be doing.

      • tomleonhart on 01/02/2017 - 12:55
        +20

        Nah I accepted the fact that there is a fixed term lease in place so negotiating for an earlier exit was never on my mind.

  • Biance on 01/02/2017 - 19:34
    +4

    My dad purchased a tenanted property which he eventually wanted to move into. He considered it as a bonus, as he was able to do most of the renovations he wanted while they were living there so they would be tax deductable.

    • stirlo on 01/02/2017 - 19:45
      +1

      Certainly a plus…

      • jaimex2 on 01/02/2017 - 20:48
        +5

        Needs the consent of the renter, they are in their right to refuse.

        • kolorijo on 02/02/2017 - 07:55
          +1

          We don't want another thread on this one

          grin

      • ChickenTalon on 02/02/2017 - 14:45

        GEAT REAL ADVICE ON THIS

        You may need to move into the property before a certain date after settlement. Otherwise, you could find yourself in a very tricky situation regarding capital gains tax on the property when it comes time to sell.

        Note: I'm not a lawyer or accountant (or even very important).

        ATO website is down, but this information is relevant
        https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fS9Ml4…

        and

        https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rQH9ql…

        A dwelling is considered to be your main residence from the time you acquired your ownership interest in it if you moved into it as soon as practicable after that time.
        …
        If you could not move in because the dwelling was being rented to someone, you are not considered to have moved in as soon as practicable after you acquired your ownership interest.

        • tomleonhart on 02/02/2017 - 15:39
          +2

          Not quiet right. You're only required to move into the property before a certain date before you plan to sell. For ATO to consider your property your PPOR, you just have to move in and live there for a couple of months.

          https://www.finder.com.au/capital-gains-tax-selling-property

        • ChickenTalon on 02/02/2017 - 21:14

          @tomleonhart: You're not addressing the issue, I'm talking about being assessed for capital gains tax. Yes, you need to live there for it to be considered your PPOR "main residence", which will be one thing considered when working out the tax liability. You can still have a large tax liability if you sell your main residence.

          Even the case study in your link outlines the exact problem the OP will face if they don't move into the property quickly after settlement.

          Bill's capital gains tax issue
          Bill buys a property and rents it out for two years, but later decides to move into it and lives in it for six years. He then sells it, making a capital gain of $400,000.

          He only has to pay CGT on a quarter of that amount, which works out to be the two years out of the eight which are not eligible for an exemption.

          This means Bill would add $100,000 to his taxable income because of the CGT. He's also held onto the property for longer than 12 months, so after taking into account the 50% discount he's entitled to because of this, he would be able to get away with an increase to his taxable income of just $50,000.

          Like I said, get real advice, I wouldn't make decisions based on comments here that do not address all the issues.

    • antonthenet on 02/02/2017 - 09:19
      -1

      This is correct. Applies to renovations inside the house and outside the house also. Will all be tax deductible on your 2017 return.

      OP I say you turn this into a positive.

    • suti on 02/02/2017 - 14:10
      +2

      these are capital improvements and not tax deductible!!!

    • stemcell on 04/02/2017 - 09:29

      You risk getting audited by the tax man if you do major renovations to a property currently rented but you bought with the full intention of moving into. On a side note remember to include the rent earned as taxable income and make sure you pay your land tax then notify them when you move in to avoid an unwanted bill.

      Also just think about the renter's as it's already a stressful time when a property sells as they will be needing to know if they have to move, when I needed to move into one of mine I gave them the last month free.

  • c0balt on 01/02/2017 - 19:50
    +2

    I was in the same position a few years ago. There was still 3 months left on the lease by the time I had settled and I wanted to move in ASAP.

    I offered them 2 weeks free rent if they left in a month. They took it and I was able to move in a few months faster.

    I did all communications through the lease agents. There was a paper trail and mediator/notary confirming the nullification of the contract being accepted by both parties so everything would look kosher.

    For me, the freedom of living in my own place and leaving the fairly toxic place I was staying at was worth every cent. For a lot of people that won't be an option, but if it is then let me say it's worth every. cent.

    • stirlo on 01/02/2017 - 20:29
      +1

      Thank you

  • BartholemewH on 01/02/2017 - 20:03
    +4

    Ok, even though it's obvious you're looking for people to encourage you to shirk your responsibilties and turf your tenants, you have stated you are after responses from people who have been in your exact situation.

    I have been in your exact situation. What I did was let the tenants stay out the term of their lease. I made it clear through my agent that the lease would not be renewed and I leant on the agent to ensure adequate notice was given to the tenants in writing of my intentions. The end.

    • stirlo on 01/02/2017 - 20:30

      Sounds fair. I would prefer to follow the example above rather than waiting though. Obviously depends on what the tenants say…

  • darkchoc on 01/02/2017 - 20:31
    +5

    Try offering a carrot… Pay for cleaning, full bond returned, pay for removalists if they move out within say 2 months and you will be very flexible. Offer to waive 2 weeks rent if they move within the 2 month period.

    Together with the stick… Letting the tenant know that you will give notice for the tenancy to end at the end of the contract date and there can be no flexibility at the end date of the lease.

    Let them know that this is because you want to move in to your new house and you want to show that you will appreciate their help.

    Be very reasonable and friendly and give them every chance to work with you.

    • nickj on 01/02/2017 - 21:22
      +3

      2 months is way too low. We moved within 1.5 months from being given notice, and it was severely stressful. I would never want to do that again. Moving in general is stressful, so people put it off as long as possible, which is precisely what this person does not want to happen, so the inducements need to be stronger to compensate for that. Make it 3 or preferably 4 months period, and make it 3 or 4 weeks rent-free.

      The carrot is likely to far more effective than the stick.

      • stirlo on 01/02/2017 - 22:58
        +1

        With the availability of other rentals in the area it might not be very difficult to find a new place but obviously the terms of an agreement like this would need to be acceptable to them which may require a timeframe more like yours.

      • darkchoc on 02/02/2017 - 08:54

        Yeah, I agree.

        3 months strikes the right balance. Plus, it might be possible to let them know your intentions asap, so that could add more notice before you even settle.

        It's a negociation where they are doing OP a favour.

    • Shame on 02/02/2017 - 09:58
      +8

      Yep carrot is the best idea however it's going to cost a lot. I value moving rental properties at $2000 (per couple) and take it into consideration whenever there is a rental increase. Moving is a hassle because:
      - you have to waste at minimum 2 or 3 weekends to find a new place,
      - you might have to pay 1 or 2 weeks of double rent due to leases overlapping,
      - you have to hire removalists or hire a van and use your own labour,
      - you have to hire cleaners for the old place or clean it yourself. You sometimes need to dust/wipe down the new place as well,
      - you have to pack up all your stuff- packing up beds is the worst!
      - you have to unpack/assemble all you stuff in the new place,
      - you have to sell or throw out some of your old stuff (e.g. fridge, couch) because it won't fit in the new place or there isn't enough storage,
      - you have to buy some new stuff (e.g. fridge, couch) to replace your old items that didn't fit,
      - the move wastes a weekend,
      - you're buggered for the next 2 or 3 weeks due to all the effort,
      - you have to cancel/postpone most social engagements for a few weeks while you're moving,
      - you walk around your new place for the first month wondering where the hell you put something.

      All up, $2k is my break even price- you'd have to offer me $3k to even consider it.

      • darkchoc on 02/02/2017 - 12:12

        Sounds like a pretty good estimation of moving costs.

        In this instance, the tenant will have to cop that cost when the lease runs out. The OP can be nice and give them flexibility and so they avoid paying double rent if they move out early and assist with moving costs.

        So not necessary to offer full cost of moving as the tenant will end up paying anyway.

      • nickj on 02/02/2017 - 15:10
        +8

        So we're a couple with a young kid, and just went through this, and for us at least most things took longer/cost more than the estimates above. We :
        * Wasted 11 Saturdays looking at properties (in Sydney you gotta kiss a lot of frogs to find something decent at a reasonable price … I'm very happy with the place we eventually got, but it wouldn't have happened if we hadn't looked for that amount of time).
        * We had exactly one day of overlapping rent. (roughly $90)
        * Removalists - no way we would have got it done without hiring removalists, and it was $1300 cash, and it took 12.5 hours (8 AM until 8:30 PM, and we were still up until 1 AM after that). They were $100/hour + 1/2 hr callout fee, 2 young guys, and it took 2 truck loads of a mid-sized truck. Some cheaper removalists are $65/hour, but they tend to have very bad reviews (breaking stuff, not turning up, etc). There was a further expense for boxes (probably $60).
        * The day after leaving the old place, I had to go back and clean it up on a 40C day before handing the keys over. That took 5 hours of work, and the cleaning oven in particular was a PITA.
        * Packing beforehand took 2 days + a lot on the actual day.
        * Unpacking at the new place is still not completed yet.
        * We are having to sell our 2-year-old Bosch dishwasher (old place did not have a dishwasher, new one does). Cost $1200, will probably sell for ~$300 (I thought cars depreciated rapidly, but dishwashers REALLY don't hold their value), so that's a $900 loss. We had 3 chest of drawers that were $100 each from Ikea, they fitted perfectly at the old place which had no drawers in the cupboards, but are excess at the new place which had full fitted wardrobes, so they will probably get chucked, so I'm counting that as a dead loss.
        * We've had to buy 2 rugs to protect the carpets around the coffee table and dining table (little kids drop LOTS of food and drinks, and old place had floorboards throughout), so that's $200.
        * Old place had fly screens, new one does not. We're probably going to have to get fly screens put in at the new place, we thought it'd be okay without, but instead we're getting bitten regularly by mosquitoes. Maybe $200 for the windows if we make the screens ourselves? No idea what to do about balcony doors. Will need to speak to agent about how to approach this one, but would not be surprised if they ask us to pay say 50% of the cost.
        * Internet: $100 setup cost to get Internet set up at the new place, ongoing costs are the same.
        * Lots of little handyman things needed fixing at the new place, $150 at Bunnings in bits and pieces just to make everything functional at the new place. And yes the owner should have paid for this, but it was literally 10 to 15 small things (stuck windows, leaking cistern, bathroom lock that kept jamming, loose railings, loose tap, lights that needed replacement bulbs, sink strainer that needed replacing, etc) at a cost of $10 to $15 a pop, and it's not worth writing 15 emails and arranging tradespeople and so forth when you can just be done.
        * Car insurance & home contents insurance costs are the same, so that was a wash.
        * Lots of notifying businesses and people of change of address.
        * I still don't know where lots of things are.

        So all up, a massive massive amount of hassle and exhaustion and effort and wasted time + an out of pocket dollar cost so far of 90+1300+60+900+300+200+100+150 = $3100, with maybe more to come for fly-screens. So for us (with one kid) it's more like $4500 to $5000 to even consider it.

        • [Deactivated] on 04/02/2017 - 22:58

          Thats horrible. You probably lost more money because you needed to sell your stuff quickly (stuff you actually use at your old place but not need at the new place can't be listed 1 month before you move).

          Most of my furniture are second hand. After hearing what you wrote I would probably not buy anything top of the range brand new until I have a place of my own.

          Brand new vs 1 year old stuff price is ridiculous. goodness.

          I hope you stayed long enough at your old place to make it worth it (2 years? =/)

      • bobbified on 21/04/2017 - 14:09

        edit: ignore post - just realised I replied to the wrong thread!

    • Well Wasted on 02/02/2017 - 11:58
      -2

      hmmm… i'd tell you to stick the carrot where it fits. if the bond was 1500… tell him to keep it. i'd be moving out with all the appointments and amenities that i could. dicks get (profanity) by (profanity)… (i know the rules… i just like to make up my own)

  • [Deactivated] on 01/02/2017 - 20:34

    You want tenants to move out, you need to work with them and offer a positive incentive, financially not everyone can move out on a whim

    Pay their relocation cost / cleaning cost
    refund their bond and pay all costs associated with the move out process
    seems only fair tbh

  • JetLi on 01/02/2017 - 20:38
    +6

    If you tell them upfront you wont be extending the current lease and they are able to break lease anytime without negative consequences, they may come across something better with more security and leave earlier on their own accord.

    • stirlo on 01/02/2017 - 20:47
      +1

      This sounds like a good idea. My only issue would be the notice period. Last time I had my lease terminated (60 day notice on no fixed term lease) I was able to give only 14 days notice back once I found a new property. I believe this left my former landlord with a month of vacancy. That said it would still likely be worth it.

      • nickj on 01/02/2017 - 21:14
        +5

        In NSW, if your lease is terminated and you're passed the fixed term, you need to be given 90 days notice in most circumstances, and then the tenant can leave at any point before that date, and stop paying rent from date they leave, and not give any notice at all. I know this because it's exactly what happened to me recently. My view was if you're going to evict us with the legal minimum notice (90 days) because we asked for reasonable repairs, then I'm going to do the legal minimum too (so I returned the keys right before the real estate agency closed on a Saturday, with zero notice, knowing full well it would take the agent several weeks to get things organised for some work they did want to do).

        I.e. if you behave reasonably and treat people well and go above the legal minimum, then they are far more likely to be reasonable and treat you well and give you more notice that the legal minimum. So as JetLi said, explain that you won't extend the lease, because you want to move in yourself, and will let them leave at any point. Furthermore, you could split the difference with them - if you would save $150/week by moving in, as you said originally, you could offer them $75/week for each week they leave early, provided they give you more than 4 weeks notice. That way you're better off, and they're also better off. If you're not willing to do that, then I suggest you wait until the lease expires. But even then you should still tell them then you won't be extending the lease, based on the golden rule (treat others how you would like to be treated).

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